Clickbank is at it again!

[Sour]

I'm starting to become worried that CB isn't tracking my sales either.

I just started IM, and I've written 44 articles so far, yet only two sales have ever been made. I have a decent enough landing page, and I'm achieving about 30% CTR on my articles. I really don't think this is supposed to be normal. I have 740 hops total.

I'm not trying to hijack the thread, by the way; just voicing my situation into our angry, pitchfork-wielding mob.

[Louise Evans]

I noticed it's a little up and down throughout the year, some months will have fantastic earnings and others are way down. Can't explain it.

[Branlan17]

One question I have, though, see, is that the order form submit registers when someone clicks the button. However, if someone typed a credit card number wrong, an expiration date wrong, skipped a field etc, they would have to submit AGAIN for sales to register. So what would you end up with? 2 order form submits and one sale... nothing wrong with that.

[Alexa Smith]

These are very different situations from the one being discussed here, in which someone sees their own affiliate-link on the order page, buys the product, pays the money, and isn't accredited for the sale. This is direct evidence that the affiliate tracking didn't work.

[Matthew Olson]

Whether its a tracking issue or blatant shaving, the bottom line is this:
If you're marketing CB products as an affiliate you're probably losing sales. This has been discussed to death over this last year and its clear that this is a problem for MANY affiliates.

All the other networks I use, cpa, Paydotcom, RAP, etc., all show consistent sales patterns... CB does not. Sales are erratic and make no sense.

This is not a problem that appears to be going away any time soon. CB refuses to admit there is a problem. I urge anyone having sales issues with CB to look at the MANY alternatives out there. There are plenty...

[MrEyeconic]

Ok after clickbank where should a affiliate turn to? I know there is paydotcom...any others?

[JustVisiting]

Possible solution for those affiliates with web sites is to offer a bonus if CB purchase made through their affiliate link. Ask customer to email you with their purchase details to claim bonus. Then you could perhaps tell how many sales are being 'missed' and you would have evidence for Clickbank. Not the ideal solution, particularly if you are promoting many CB products.

[captivereef]

my sales have disapeared over the last week or two!!! i made 1-3 on average per day and was converting 1 in 15 hops for the last year, now nothing!!!

[MrEyeconic]

This is pretty alarming considering some big affliliate products which have been released. Their would be many affiliates setting sites up not knowing what they are getting themselves in to

[natscash]

This is the first time I am hearing about this problem. Are you sure you are not misspelling your user ID.

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Steve36

Can't this be solved simply by a tracking software?

NOPE! If you are the vendor, you don't see the affiliate ANYWAY, unless clickbank passes it, and what could you do? If you are the affiliate, there is NO way to prove the visitor even got to the vendors page, let alone purchased.

The idea of opening up a new account sounds silly. Logically, it should only do ONE thing....
Split up the allocation of your funds between different referers.

Frankly, you want the referring links to STAY so cached ones keep working.

Steve

[Steven Rayne]

Could it be 'link theft' by the product vendor?

Just trying to find an answer...

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Sour

You mean third party analytics to track whether or not we're making sales? I think that would be a little difficult since the order page is hosted by CB, and we have no control over it.

The only way that I could see it being possible is if we ran everything through an iframe, much like Digg's toolbar, but then customers may worry about security if they see suspicious iframes.

WAIT A SECOND, THERE'S a thought! A cookie run affiliate system is IMPOSSIBLE to reliably run through frames or iframes! DON'T blame clickbank for THAT! BLAME M/S!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF the VENDOR has a P3P policy, AND clickbank has a P3P policy, it SHOULD greatly increase reliability, but we are talking about THOUSANDS of sites CB has NO control over!

I wrote about that YEARS ago! EVEN IE V6 has this!

Steve

[KristieDean]

Originally Posted by Colin Palfrey

Ive had the same thing. I was getting good sales for awhile then it stopped.

Naturally I assumed I had done something wrong until a friend bought something from my aff link in front of my eyes and I didnt get credit.

I opened a new account and updated my redirects and got a day of sales then nothing.

So, I got my dad to open an account and got another 2 days of sales.

Bottom line is I cant be bothered with them any more.

It's not a tracking issue, quite clearly it's blatant theft by CB

What are the alternatives to CB?

[actionplanbiz]

Boycott Clickbank?

[Trader54]

Very easy to find out if your ID is working. Clickbank allows you to buy through your own ID. If its showing at the bottom of the order page and you buy and don't get credit for the sale then you know there is a problem. Video your purchase. This is very easy to prove one way or the other.

[FaJeeb]

I decided to buy a cheap product earlier today through CB after I read this thread. Hours later, still haven't got any affiliate money.

[danhughes]

While we're free to discuss / dispute the reasons why... here's a couple of things you can actually do:

1) Ask the vendor if they are willing to offer another shopping cart system. Research alternatives for them and offer them 2 or 3 choices. If the vendor is small, but is selling a product that coverts well for you, then offer to pay any set up fees for them.

2) Tracking is extremely important, even when you're working with a reliable system (which Clickbank IS NOT). Sign up for a free tracking202 account. Have the vendor place a tracking pixel on their TY page. If you send that kind of data to Clickbank (and even the vendor) they are going to more able / willing to figure things out.

[Havenhood]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

A ridiculous accusation.

ClickBank makes the same profit whether it's a vendor sale or an
affiliate sale.

Good point, unless CB's pocketing the commission. Just a thought, Harvey.

P.S. I'm not saying they are.

[patchman]

Every month there seems to be a thread made by a newbie, then all the other newbies jump in on it.

[pcpupil]

OK,im not using a redirect on any of my sites or articles.
Does this mean if i where to change my CB id,id have to change every link on everything ive done?
Or,does it mean when someone says to cancel your account,then reopen it with the same info.Mean for say my id is [nitwit].
Do i reopen my account with all the same info such as [nitwit],and all the same persoal stuff?
Or start with a whole new ID.
Matt

[FSchmieder]

Originally Posted by patchman

Every month there seems to be a thread made by a newbie, then all the other newbies jump in on it.

You know, plenty of people said the same thing you did, patch. Then, you know what? They felt like a tard when it happened to them

[actionplanbiz]

I stopped all my clickbank campaigns after reading this thread.

thanks for some of the testimonies

[Will Edwards]

yves - do you have Spybot installed?

Will

[Anthony J Namata]

The trouble with CB management is they just ignore you. That's why we're having this conversation here. THEY don't seem to give a damn what happens to you, much less the money and effort you're putting into promoting their listed products. That's REALLY what irks me.

[rapidscc]

I too stopped actively promoting clickbank after sending them several thousands of hops, registering several order form submissions and earning NADA..

Up to now about a hundred products I promoted are still getting hits, I see order form submits and still zero sales..about 3 months now..

Luckily CB is not the only source of Income that I have, otherwise I'll go hungry..

I will register a new account, however what will happen to the small amount of money in my previous account. It will just be eaten up by them in time..

If you get a few sales per new account and then sh1t happens and then create a new account get a few sales and again sh1t takes over, then you'll just end up promoting products and giving them all of the earnings by letting them eat up the balance in your new accounts..

This is beginning to feel stupid and as much as I like CB and all their fancy features and nice products, I think I'll have to move on..

All the best

Omar

[RussRave]

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

They really are a "piece of work", aren't they? Just shameless, and apparently no concern over their public image at all. People have been saying the same thing as Yves above, on and off, for over a year to my certain knowledge (and possibly longer).


Many, many, many, many people say this has often worked for them when Clickbank's tracking has apparently screwed up. The minute they open a new account the sales are back to normal.

I don't know. I just don't understand why that should work, at all.

At least here we're allowed to discuss it, unlike in some forums!

Excuse me for being slightly cynical but could it be that CB's tracking "glitch" is actually a deliberate programmed error designed to boost their profits,.. or a convenient programming anomaly that aids CB's bottom line profits?
It seems very bizzare that a person can set up a new account and have the links functioning fine at the initial point of testing and then for those links to somehow internally malfunction down the track! Personally I don't "buy it" and see this as an excusable rort.
Let's face it, it's not as though a purchaser is going to send you an email thanking you for referring them to a great CB product they just bought. There's no way of tracking this because it is all occurring behind CB's iron curtain!
Just think about the millions of dollars worth of sales occurring via the CB library every week and then consider the financial advantage that skimming the top off commission payouts to referrers would do for CB's bottom line.

At least by using PayPal or your own payment gateway with your own products or JV products that you control the landing page for then you can keep track on everything.
Don't get me wrong,.. I really like CB products and the overall setup,.. it's just the internal logistics and lack of control that really concerns me. It's hard enough to create sales,.. but to then have them pilfered or lost is just woeful. I agree, working for no-pay is the pits and a sure way leading back to the cubicle life working for the man!
Russ

[yves]

Some very interesting points here.

By the way I just want to say to the poster who said about newbies starting these threads - that I am not a newbie and I have given the whole clickbank thing a good run and my findings are what they are and the proof is unquestionable.

I really don't want to put anyone off here and I know how frustrating it is but at the same time, I think it is important for IM'ers to know about this and make an informed choice about promoting with clickbank products.

I have now made the decision that I am (infortunately) going to have to part ways with clickbank and go elsewhere - thanks for the alternative suggestions such as paydot.com. Of course there are CPA offers too so lots to think about.

The post about just making your own product and sell on your website is absolutely right on the money. IMHO this is definitely the way to go for us.

I think this issue directly affects vendors too because affiliates are not getting their side of the bargain (in some cases ) so will lose dedicated promoters of their products.

I am sad to leave my products but there is no way I am continuing with this nonsense and by proving that sales are NOT registered after purchasing with my link with my affiliate idea at the bottom of the checkout page, I am happy that this is the right thing to do.

All the best to you guys who are going through the same thing, I hope you find another, more profitable and less frustrating path

Yves

[bretski]

Originally Posted by patchman

Every month there seems to be a thread made by a newbie, then all the other newbies jump in on it.

Really? Are you serious? I've seen some people in on this thread that I admire and respect who are making a pretty good living at this. Talented folks...

So, tell me all your stuff matches up fine on your CB account. I know that this morning even my old analytics said that I had 4 times as many hops as the new analytics did. I checked my cpanel for stats and the old analytics is way closer to a reliable count.

[gcaine]

Yves you stated you made a purchase through you link, did you actually get the product?

If so that blows my theory of whats wrong out of the water.

I've been getting only about 10% order form submit counts from the the impression counts.

In other words for every 100 order form impressions I only get 10 people that submit. This is from a variety of different products most of which state the price up front.

I suspected that three things could be happening.

1.The security level of the order process is too high. I have a friend that told me that the only way she can order from some companies is with a pre-payed credit card, a normal card gets rejected.

2.Spybot or some other program is causing problems again. (if that's the case and we can prove it a class action lawsuit might be in order)

3.The currency conversion is scaring people off. If they see the price at $30 and then it's $35 at the order page they may leave.


If you made the purchase, and got the product it is obviously a tracking problem.

As for why opening a new account works for some people, is it possible that an account is at a lower security level until you get a certain amount of refunds or chargebacks?

Seems to me if that was the case they would be doing it for individual products not by affiliate ID.

I do agree something is wrong, I've been seeing very erratic sales for over a year now and it's costing me a lot of money, but what exactly is going on?

[Jon Tees]

The main problem that I find is the amount of redirection links and e-mail capture pages posted directly on vendors sites. I can see this as a way to rob affiliates of their commissions. Some don’t even display the hop link anymore, but rather just redirect to the vendors main site, meaning you are basically driving in sales for someone else and won’t see a commission for any of them. This is why I have semi retired from using click bank. I have one program that I use it for, when I maintain my membership at associate I make 50% and when others who I refer upgrade to associate or maintain associate status, I also make 50% and for this it works out wonderfully, because the company is reputable. But alot of other things are suspect with some of these vendors.

[Steven Rayne]

Has anyone else searched on google for an answer?

[Alexa Smith]

Steven,

Absolutely no criticism implied, but in my opinion searching for an answer on Google really isn't the way to learn anything much that's reliable, here. I'll try to explain why I think this.

The problem with Google searches is that what one inevitably most easily finds (because of the high page-ranks and SERPs position results of the pages on which they're posted, which will typically be "scam sites", "rip off reports" and so on, which get a huge amount of traffic and clean up on their Adsense income, which is why they exist) is a bunch of second-hand drivel from a collection of:-

(i) people with very little experience and understanding of how such things work

(ii) people quick to make unwarranted and unsubstantiated accusations without any real evidence for them

(iii) hysterical fantasists

(iv) conspiracy theorists

(v) people with some sort of grudge against the whole of internet marketing and/or their own "cross to bear" and/or a desire to try to damage a third party

However many complaints you find about Clickbank on such sites, there are probably more complaints about Marks and Spencer, Microsoft, J.C.Penney, American Airlines, and so on. It's inevitable, and signifies nothing, really. Whatever you're looking for, with the search terms you choose, you'll be able to find it. ("Law of attraction", anyone?).

For this reason, basically, you can't believe a word you read, and you're very much better off forming your own overall opinions and impressions from what members of this forum can tell you, slightly unreliable and slightly ill-informed though some of them may sometimes be. The overall, collective picture of the realities involved that you'll form that way will be a far more reliable, perceptive and accurate one.

[The 13th Warrior]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

A ridiculous accusation.

ClickBank makes the same profit whether it's a vendor sale or an
affiliate sale.

'Yo, Mr. Harvey "ClickBank" Segal, this issue comes up time and time again.

What chapter titles in your products do you address this issue, or what is most likely the issue?

Maybe you could offer a investigative service for a fee comparable to the persons problems to get to the heart of the matter.

Are they violating terms, using add-ons or webpages incompatible with clickbank and/or its policies, using illegal, misleading, deceptive,fraudulent,unreliable, tricky tactics or some "fly-by-night" strategy that has no longevity?

Or have you ALREADY studied peoples problems on THIS SPECIFIC issue and have formally addressed it long ago in your products?

Or maybe a new product specifically targeted at this long recurring complaint is begging to be made.

The 13 th Warrior

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by bretski

Really? Are you serious? I've seen some people in on this thread that I admire and respect who are making a pretty good living at this. Talented folks...

So, tell me all your stuff matches up fine on your CB account. I know that this morning even my old analytics said that I had 4 times as many hops as the new analytics did. I checked my cpanel for stats and the old analytics is way closer to a reliable count.

NEWS for you! You could be in business for over a hundred years, make TRILLIONS of dollars, make a TON of money, know HTML, PERL, PHP, and have made sales on clickbank for YEARS and still have NO "TALENT" with cookies!

FACE IT!!!!!!! THREE things control cookies! The visitors system, clickbanks system, and the vendors system, and in THAT order! If ONE of them fails, you will NOT get the credit! OK, maybe the vendor does NOTHING, and you WILL get the credit, but let me give you an example.....

1. You link through a frame to clickbanks system....
2. The visitor visits your framed page
3. The visitors system doesn't allow third party cookies...
4. The visitor clicks on the link.
5. Clickbank TRIES to set the cookie, but FAILS, because the VISITORS system doesn't allow it.
6. The visitor buys
7. YOU DON'T get the credit!

WHY? Because the visitors system didn't rwcord the third party link.

I HEAR IT NOW! People ask "OK, what about IP tracking?". Well, IP tracking is not reliable so even if clickbank did it, don't expect it to work for more than 30 minutes. What if they went out to do the laundry between stops 5 and 6? If that took more than about 30 minutes, you would probably STILL lose the sale!

Steve

[The 13th Warrior]

Just noticed the cousin to the term " charcoal sombrero " is banned here and the word "Bluefart" has taken its place.

Why bluefart and where is this policy/thread/sticky located?

[gcaine]

Originally Posted by seasoned

NEWS for you! You could be in business for over a hundred years, make TRILLIONS of dollars, make a TON of money, know HTML, PERL, PHP, and have made sales on clickbank for YEARS and still have NO "TALENT" with cookies!

FACE IT!!!!!!! THREE things control cookies! The visitors system, clickbanks system, and the vendors system, and in THAT order! If ONE of them fails, you will NOT get the credit! OK, maybe the vendor does NOTHING, and you WILL get the credit, but let me give you an example.....

1. You link through a frame to clickbanks system....
2. The visitor visits your framed page
3. The visitors system doesn't allow third party cookies...
4. The visitor clicks on the link.
5. Clickbank TRIES to set the cookie, but FAILS, because the VISITORS system doesn't allow it.
6. The visitor buys
7. YOU DON'T get the credit!

WHY? Because the visitors system didn't rwcord the third party link.

I HEAR IT NOW! People ask "OK, what about IP tracking?". Well, IP tracking is not reliable so even if clickbank did it, don't expect it to work for more than 30 minutes. What if they went out to do the laundry between stops 5 and 6? If that took more than about 30 minutes, you would probably STILL lose the sale!

Steve

If you are using frames or iframes you are asking for trouble. That's the exact reason cloaking software doesn't work.

Unless you are promoting affiliate marketing products most of your visitors have no idea what the hop=xxxx means anyway so why try to hide it with frames?

If you are promoting affiliate marketing products the vendor should hide the hop code for you, if they can't they most likely don't have a product that's worth selling anyway.

A simple php redirect to clean up the url

[yves]

Originally Posted by gcaine

Yves you stated you made a purchase through you link, did you actually get the product?

If so that blows my theory of whats wrong out of the water.

I've been getting only about 10% order form submit counts from the the impression counts.

In other words for every 100 order form impressions I only get 10 people that submit. This is from a variety of different products most of which state the price up front.

I suspected that three things could be happening.

1.The security level of the order process is too high. I have a friend that told me that the only way she can order from some companies is with a pre-payed credit card, a normal card gets rejected.

2.Spybot or some other program is causing problems again. (if that's the case and we can prove it a class action lawsuit might be in order)

3.The currency conversion is scaring people off. If they see the price at $30 and then it's $35 at the order page they may leave.


If you made the purchase, and got the product it is obviously a tracking problem.

As for why opening a new account works for some people, is it possible that an account is at a lower security level until you get a certain amount of refunds or chargebacks?

Seems to me if that was the case they would be doing it for individual products not by affiliate ID.

I do agree something is wrong, I've been seeing very erratic sales for over a year now and it's costing me a lot of money, but what exactly is going on?

Yes, I got the product ok. But you have a good point about the security in new accounts although I am not techy enough to know if that can happen. To answer about spybot, I don't have this installed on my computer so can't be that and as for the currencey conversion, well, it would still be weird that suddenly everyone had that same feeling.

[The 13th Warrior]

Originally Posted by seasoned

WHY? Because the visitors system didn't rwcord the third party link.

Posts: 9,811 ?????????

Was you here when Warrior Forum was started prior to the rise of the Roman Empire, or was the Warrior Forum started 22 days after Wyatt Earps death?

Can you sell me some of those , whats the going rate, you would still have years to spare.

THATS, a lot of post..."old timer"...

[yves]

Just a quick question..

Does anyone know if problems concerning tracking with the likes of cookies, frames etc are experienced with other places like paydotcom or commision junction?

Just interested, cos if the answer is no, then I would like to know why is the biggest digital marketing company are using a less effective tracking system than their counterparts.

[Louise M.]

Wow seriously that's worrying.

Can anyone make a list of good affiliate programs websites such as ClickBank but that we can trust ?

I just don't know what to think. I'm promoting several clickbank products !

Err...

Edorff, if you can get more info, thanks for posting it here !

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by edorff

clickbank is definitely jank and you want to talk to me why it has been happening go to my profile and email me or message me because my friend is an expert on this and i will try to get some info out of him

And WHAT is your friend an expert in, exactly?

[gcaine]

Originally Posted by yves

Just a quick question..

Does anyone know if problems concerning tracking with the likes of cookies, frames etc are experienced with other places like paydotcom or commision junction?

Just interested, cos if the answer is no, then I would like to know why is the biggest digital marketing company are using a less effective tracking system than their counterparts.

Frames and iframes cause a problem with cookies everywhere, they are considered third party cookies so just don't use them.

[Kevingators]

Originally Posted by Folusho Orokunle

In my opinion Clickbank should only be used for testing purposes. If you're making money for months with them then all of a sudden the sales stop, what should you do?

Create your own product in that market!

You'll make more money, and you'll be able to have affiliates promote your products.

I don't think any affiliate network has bullet proof tracking, but obviously Clickbank has it's share of problems.

Yeah, I agree. I think testing is the key and then create a similar product that was productive. That way you don't have to rely on Clickbanks tracking problems.

Kevin

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by yves

I would like to know why is the biggest digital marketing company are using a less effective tracking system than their counterparts.

So would I. But it's among the many questions they won't answer (perhaps because to do so, they would have to acknowledge the problem?).

[The 13th Warrior]

Harvey Segal just mentioned a few weeks or a month or so back that he was at some major ClickBank conference, conferencing with the big honcho's of ClickBank, listening to speeches and verbal presentations, I think.

Maybe he can use some of that juice to see what this is all about or maybe what they deem this to be is the same tired old hat complaints that have been addressed before, but nobody is listening ..........

.......perhaps some have neither faith nor belief in Harvey's and ClickBanks answers/resolution.

The 13 th Warrior

[Harvey.Segal]

Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior

Harvey Segal just mentioned a few weeks or a month or so back that he was at some major ClickBank conference, conferencing with the big honcho's of ClickBank, listening to speeches and verbal presentations, I think.

Maybe he can use some of that juice to see what this is all about or maybe what they deem this to be is the same tired old hat complaints that have been addressed before, but nobody is listening ..........

.......perhaps some have neither faith nor belief in Harvey's and ClickBanks answers/resolution.

The 13 th Warrior

Unfortunately, I've seen so much inaccuracy, speculation, hysteria and nonsense in this thread that I've lost the will to live.


Harvey

[bretski]

Originally Posted by gcaine

If you are using frames or iframes you are asking for trouble. That's the exact reason cloaking software doesn't work.

Unless you are promoting affiliate marketing products most of your visitors have no idea what the hop=xxxx means anyway so why try to hide it with frames?

If you are promoting affiliate marketing products the vendor should hide the hop code for you, if they can't they most likely don't have a product that's worth selling anyway.

A simple php redirect to clean up the url

What if I create a .htaccess file and do a 301 redirect to my uncloaked affiliate url? Would that work? Would the cookie still be accepted even if the end user's browser settings were still set not to accept third party cookies?

I'm just looking for solutions here. All I know is that I was on pace to be able to really get my life back together and all of the sudden sales just plummeted while traffic climbed....and I'm not talking about $h1tty traffic. I'm talking about good targeted traffic.

I'd stand on my head and spit wooden nickels if that's what it takes. An afternoon creating a .htaccess file is well worth it if that might solve the problem.

Thanks in advance...perhaps there are others out there cloaking links and maybe this is what the issue is. Perhaps it's that simple and the villagers with their torches and pitchforks can go back to work here...

[bretski]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

Unfortunately, I've seen so much inaccuracy, speculation, hysteria and nonsense in this thread that I've lost the will to live.


Harvey

Oh comeon, Harvey! This isn't anything that a little ole fashioned American know-how and troubleshooting can't fix. (oops! saw you're in BG!) If there is a problem there has to be a solution. I would even be willing to offer my time in an open source kinda way if I thought it would help.

[The 13th Warrior]

Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal

".......... I've seen so much inaccuracy, speculation, hysteria and nonsense in this thread......".

In word or phrase, I wonder, what is the common denominator or source from which this persistently is given new life?

Is it possible this is one of the ultimate noob boogie-man urban myths, at least related to ClickBank, that no technology or proof can seem to slaughter?

A particular something in ClickBank , something simple and unique, that folks cannot or will not get a handle on that is blown to astronomical proportions?