Is this idea for raising money legal?

[Matthew Moyer]

I have only one goal and that is to start
a greenhouse and grow edible food in it.

The problem is I have zero dollars and
zero cents.

So I spent alot of time thinking about how
to raise funds to actually reach my goal.

This is the final idea I've been able to
think up.

I'm not sure if it is legal though and
even if it is I'm not sure it will work.

The idea is to sell square footage plots
upfront to raise the money to buy a greenhouse
and then send the food that is grown in
the plots to the people who purchase the
plots in advance.

I was thinking though that it might be the
same thing as advertising a product for
sale that isn't made yet.

The idea is alittle different and yet it is
almost exactly the same.

I'm hoping someone can enlighten me to
whether or not my idea would be legal.

[shaddai]

growing plants.....

legal....

I wonder what's growing in the greenhouse :-)

[Matthew Moyer]

I know growing plants is legal.

That wasn't my question.

My question was if my idea of selling
square footage plots to people in
advance before anything is grown
in them is legal.

As for what is to be grown, I
was looking at having it be an
aquaponics greenhouse where
fish are grown in tanks with their
waste being pumped to the plants
as a natural fertilzer. Then the plants
clean the water of nutrients and the
clean water is then pumped back to
the fish.

I want to use some form of permaculture
design to have alot of diversity in plant
life. I want to use as little energy and
as little chemicals and instead substitute
as many natural things as possible.

Different types of plants will ward off
pests and others will attract wanted
insects. I'll also have to probably study
apiculture and keep my own bee hive
as there doesn't seem to be that
many around here anymore.

The plants list I have for different things
include tomatoes, watermelons, potatoes,
bell peppers, broccoli, basil, three types
of lettuce, a few small grafted fruit trees,
corn, sunflowers, cucumbers, haven't decided
on a type of mushroom yet probably button
mushrooms.

Carrots, probably snow peas, eggplant,
cauliflower, cabbage, most likely a common
bean like green beans and radish and squash.

The edible parts of the plants I would like to
eventually sell and the leftover plant material
I would like to use to make compost. Then
use that compost to grow even more things.

Thats the main idea. What's to be grown in
the greenhouse if I ever get one isn't going
to be illegal things like I think you were
insinuating with your comment.

[Jay Sullivan]

LOL...WOW...now that's covering your carbon footprints! What a great idea, and a wonderful goal to have!

Don't know whether it's legal or not, but i say go for it...can't see it being a problem!

[haridasz]

Well, it seems like it's similar to selling a plot of land with the promise of some returns in the future. This model has been used before to sell oil and plantation to end users / consumers.

for example in the case of a plantation...this is how it works;

A plot of land is bought in bulk by service manager. It is sectionalized / zoned into smaller plots. Then it is sold to investors. The returns from the smaller plot belongs to the investors. The service manager handles everything else, from planting, to watering, to harvesting and eventually selling the products off to the market. The service manager is also paid a service fee for this.

But of course a lot of legal paper work need to be done and marketing it may be tricky.

All the best to you.

hari
NicheALot.com

[Elliott]

I think you need to find out a lot more about your local, state, and federal regulations.

How will you get your customer/investors? The shipping of food items, especially fresh food items, is probably highly regulated at different levels.

I would start at the local level. Do you have a farmer's market in your town? I would go there and talk to some vendor's as well as whoever runs it, to get anidea of the licensing and regulations involved in the sale of fresh food items.

Elliott

[Matthew Moyer]

The idea isn't so much to reduce carbon emissions
as it is to make something that actually is sustainable.

I just took an idea of what if there wasn't really that
much oil left. How could farms in this world literally
maintain their production at it's current levels.

Oil just makes it so that the amount of work done is
magnified. I forget where and I forget when I read
it, there was a number used that said something like
the amount of oil used in food production in the world
is equivalent to a ridiculous amount of people working
the fields instead. The number was something like
fifteen billion people don't quote me exactly on that
number though. It was huge and it was more then
the estimated population of earth currently.

[Matthew Moyer]

I've haven't read anything before about plantations.

What you describe sounds exactly like what I am
hoping to be able to do.

I just also thought of something. I think I may have
come up with my idea of doing this from looking
at that million dollar homepage thing that guy did
a bunch of years back.

Thanks for telling me a little bit about plantations
I'm going to go read some more about them.

[Matthew Moyer]

The sending of the produce is what will probably
make it illegal to do.

I know there are some laws that don't let you
send certain types of fish through certain states
even if it's in a plane.

They don't want invasive species entering there
waterways I think is the reasoning behind those
laws.

I'm going to have to do some searching to see
if it's the same with plants.

[WealthWithin]

A real world farmville..... lol


I think it's already been done with lobsters.
catchapieceofmaine.com

[BIG Mike]

Normally I wouldn't comment on a question of legality, but in your case, what you're really looking for is venture capital to launch your project. Whether you can send them the food or sell it and send the money, etc., is just a matter of checking into your local regs - in that respect, you're better off talking to a lawer who has some expertise in that area.

That said, you may want to consider looking into corporate sponsorship in your area - I can think of a number of types of businesses that might have an interest in doing this, if you can sell it to them.

[Sumit Menon]

Is this a joke or are you really going for the Nobel Peace Prize?

Sumit.

[Matthew Moyer]

I just read the Frequently Asked Questions part
on that lobster site and I think I get it.

If I get it they basically rent the traps for a year
and whatever each trap catches belongs to that
person.

The same concept applied to lobsters, I like it.

[nRehman]

If you hold a land your idea is legal! Like in a real estate business people sell new houses and shops in advance on a specified owned land but its delivery is made after its completion according to the agreement.

[Matthew Moyer]

Talking to a lawyer was on my to do list once I get
some money as I've never been able to get an answer
from a lawyer about anything unless they get paid
first. I've only ever emailed about 4 of them total
in my life though.

I'm not really sure what corporate sponsorship is.

Although I did contact a company that is literally
5 minutes down the road from me that ships produce
all over the east coast and they said they could basically
buy everything I grew except they would have to
inspect my facilities before they would decide if they
would buy from me.

The problem is I don't have a place for them to inspect
yet. I do have a list of potential places to sell to, the
obvious are grocery stores, restaurants and possibly
schools or fast food places.

A more radical idea was to also start a place that sells
the food itself or even starting a restaurants that cooks
the food that is grown.

I hadn't thought of the idea you had which was possibly
selling the food from the plots people would buy and then
send them the money. I like that idea.

[mgkimsal]

Instead of sending the food to the original people, tell them that a certain portion of the food grown will be given to a local food bank or similar type of institution.

I don't see anything illegal with what you're talking about in principal. As someone else mentioned, you're looking for investors. Rather than pay them their investment bank (with interest) in money, you'd do it in food. The shipping of food might be problematic, so let them know they're helping feed some hungry people. Instead of this being a 'for profit' sort of venture, it sounds more like a 'non-profit' type of thing, which would probably do better in a fund-raising or investment-seeking atmosphere (really just a hunch there, though - no evidence to back that up).

Good luck!

[Matthew Moyer]

I'm not joking although I have no idea why you think
this is about getting some prize. It's not like any of
my ideas are original.

I just want to grow food in a greenhouse so I can
have some control over the temperature and sell
the food for a profit. Take the profit and get even
more greenhouses so that more food can be grown.

My extremely huge massive goal would be to literally
grow enough food for all the good people that exist
on this planet and at the same time try not to mess
up the environment to much.

I could care less about some prize. It's not like you
could eat the prize if you were starving.

[BIG Mike]

Originally Posted by mgkimsal

Instead of sending the food to the original people, tell them that a certain portion of the food grown will be given to a local food bank or similar type of institution.

I don't see anything illegal with what you're talking about in principal. As someone else mentioned, you're looking for investors. Rather than pay them their investment bank (with interest) in money, you'd do it in food. The shipping of food might be problematic, so let them know they're helping feed some hungry people. Instead of this being a 'for profit' sort of venture, it sounds more like a 'non-profit' type of thing, which would probably do better in a fund-raising or investment-seeking atmosphere (really just a hunch there, though - no evidence to back that up).

Good luck!

Great idea!

Corporate sponership is finding one or more large companies in your area that would fund the cost of building and operating the greenhouse. They in turn use that for public relations purcposes in marketing their own company.

Doing something like that with some of the food going to food banks, is a nifty USP that's sure to grab the attention of a company with deep pockets and community involvement.

[Matthew Moyer]

I'm going to have to raise a huge massive amount of money.

My estimates are around between forty two thousand and
fifty thousand.

Do you think some corporation would be willing to spend
that kind of massive money just for publicity?

That amount will probably only get me between two thousand
and three thousand square footage.

If I create some layering I keep low light plants at ground level
and stack with shelves other plants above them I can increase
that amount, by how much I am not sure though.

[BIG Mike]

Originally Posted by Matthew Moyer

I'm going to have to raise a huge massive amount of money.

My estimates are around between forty two thousand and
fifty thousand.

Do you think some corporation would be willing to spend
that kind of massive money just for publicity?

That amount will probably only get me between two thousand
and three thousand square footage.

If I create some layering I keep low light plants at ground level
and stack with shelves other plants above them I can increase
that amount, by how much I am not sure though.

Believe it or not, $50K is petty cash when it comes to PR.

What you've got to do is put together a solid plan and sell it to them with heavy emphasis on what they'll get out of it.

[designfuschion]

sounds like an awesome idea!
good luck and i wish you success!

Having no idea which country your in..i can't advise specifics. your local district gov/state and federal government sites will have sections on regulations.
You may need permits if your providing food to commercial interests. (ie restaurants)
I know here in australia we need a permit if the size of a certain activity is large enough. (like growing yabbies )

I like the idea about a non profit. I think what your trying to do is inspiring. I can't wait for the day when i own my own acreage. I'd so love to learn permaculture.

Anyway,
Last night they showed a jamie oliver tv series where he travels the US. He went to this underground restaurant. They call them supper clubs. (google it for more info).

I was thinking,if you made it into a non-profit you could then donate the food to the supper clubs/homeless shelters. Your 'investors' could then get a tax deduction(so as a selling point when asking for donations-not only is it tax deductable but they're reducing carbon emissions,oil usage and helping those in need all in one go!)

As administrator you'd earn income as well.

hope that gives some ideas..

edit: 3 new posts before i had a chance to post.
I have a question- Do you have a huge acreage for this venture? Curious,becuase if your looking to go large scale then a backyard or 1 acre might not be large enough.

[mgkimsal]

Originally Posted by Matthew Moyer

I'm going to have to raise a huge massive amount of money.

My estimates are around between forty two thousand and
fifty thousand.

Do you think some corporation would be willing to spend
that kind of massive money just for publicity?

That amount will probably only get me between two thousand
and three thousand square footage.

If I create some layering I keep low light plants at ground level
and stack with shelves other plants above them I can increase
that amount, by how much I am not sure though.

Not sure what your experience with greenhouses is - sounds like you've got more than me. Here's an idea - perhaps you're beyond this already though....

Approach a local greenhouse about using some of their space, in exchange for donating some of the food to a local food bank and modest rent. When donating food, the food is a joint donation from your company and the greenhouse. Once that's operating, you can approach larger companies about corporate sponsorship. You'll have an established operation and goodwill with a local charity. The charity might already connections who'd be willing to help fund the growth of your own independent greenhouse.

Eventually, I could see this as something where you're trying to raise pure investment of, say, $60k to build a 3000 square foot greenhouse. Part of your charter is that 300 sqft are available to foodbank X to come and tend and grow their own food, but more importantly, learn how to do this themselves and teach others how to be sustainable. You're building a for-profit venture, but with a mission to help others through direct action and long term education. That strikes me as something a wide variety of organizations might be willing to invest in (might even be able to get a govt grant to help fund that).

As for one company investing - I don't think so. If you got 15 area companies to invest at $4k apiece, that's $60k. Offer them a reasonable return on their money as well as some degree of publicity in your operations, and you're good to go. I know that's not *easy* to do, but it is fairly straightforward, I think.

I hope I'm not coming across as trying to turn your idea in to a charity or non-profit entirely. That's not my point, and I hope you can use some of this to spark some ideas about potential JV with area businesses to help you achieve your goals.

Again, good luck.

[jendoe]

Originally Posted by Matthew Moyer

The idea is to sell square footage plots
upfront to raise the money to buy a greenhouse
and then send the food that is grown in
the plots to the people who purchase the
plots in advance.

I was thinking though that it might be the
same thing as advertising a product for
sale that isn't made yet.

You might want to look into the model of "community supported agriculture" (CSAs). A good resource for finding local CSAs in the US is:
Local Harvest / Farmers Markets / Family Farms / CSA / Organic Food

In CSAs - customers buy a subscription to a farm for the growing season (often called a "share"). In return, they get weekly boxes of fresh fruits/veggies from the farm. Farmers usually set up "drop off points" in the city - there is a specific day/time window you must pick up your box, or it gets donated to charity. Some farmers include recipes too to help you figure out what to do with odd vegetables

The idea is that the local community helps give the farmer a more stable income so that they can focus on growing. If they have a bad season (poor crops, alien monkey invasion, whatever) it affects them less... customers know that the farm might do well (and they benefit with lots of produce) or poorly.

The key here is the customer pays up front for the whole season, at the very beginning (I'm unsure of how it works for people who want to join mid-season. I think farmers may also have limits to the # of people they can accept in any season.)

Some CSAs also require people to come work X hours on the farm! (But I think most do not - it's mostly the economic stability).

Could something like that work for you? If you got the $ upfront, would that give you enough time to get settled and actually produce something for that season?

Good luck, at any rate. I think it sounds like a great idea, more fresh produce is always good

[JohnMcCabe]

Matthew, to a multi-billion dollar corporation, $50k is chump change. Many companies drop that buying tickets to sporting events to avoid local TV blackouts. The tickets are donated to local charities.

Here's how I would go about it...

First, you need a prototype/proof of concept project. Could you start with something small, say 100 to 150 square feet? That puts you in the realm of relatively inexpensive, back yard greenhouses.

You should be able to source most of the pumps and tubing from a local home center or ag supply house.

With a little luck, you might even get the materials donated in return for publicity.

Next, set up the prototype and run it. Keep track of the inputs, the labor required and the harvest. Be able to document everything. Donate the harvest to a local food bank.

With a documented proof of concept, you have a couple of ways to go. You could look for investors/sponsors, or you could look for an outright grant to fund the next stage.

Again, $50k is not a large number to the folks you'll be dealing with.

Depending on the results, you might be facing one more round of funding, to scale the operation to commercial levels.

Once you have solid proof that your methodology works, bundle the whole thing and sell licenses to use the information. Something that works, doable on several scales, using common materials, would have a world-wide appeal. That's likely going to appeal to some of the serious VC folks.

Good luck to you!

Originally Posted by Matthew Moyer

I'm going to have to raise a huge massive amount of money.

My estimates are around between forty two thousand and
fifty thousand.

Do you think some corporation would be willing to spend
that kind of massive money just for publicity?

That amount will probably only get me between two thousand
and three thousand square footage.

If I create some layering I keep low light plants at ground level
and stack with shelves other plants above them I can increase
that amount, by how much I am not sure though.

[Steven Carl Kelly]

I will respond to your question of the legality of your proposed endeavor with the following statement:

You have a milkshake, and I have a straw. And my straw reaches acroooooooss the room, and starts to drink your milkshake.

I... drink... your... milkshake!

I DRINK IT UP!

[mr2monster]

Originally Posted by Matthew Moyer

I have only one goal and that is to start
a greenhouse and grow edible food in it.

The problem is I have zero dollars and
zero cents.

So I spent alot of time thinking about how
to raise funds to actually reach my goal.

This is the final idea I've been able to
think up.

I'm not sure if it is legal though and
even if it is I'm not sure it will work.

The idea is to sell square footage plots
upfront to raise the money to buy a greenhouse
and then send the food that is grown in
the plots to the people who purchase the
plots in advance.

I was thinking though that it might be the
same thing as advertising a product for
sale that isn't made yet.

The idea is alittle different and yet it is
almost exactly the same.

I'm hoping someone can enlighten me to
whether or not my idea would be legal.

so, it's basically a veggie time-share.......... er, grow-share?

[iw433]

jendoe has your answer. That is what I was going to tell you , but Jendoe did a much better job.

[AmyBrown]

Just wanted to mention that there is probably an info product here. If you haven't already built a prototype keep track of the materials and take pictures along the way. With growing interest in all things green there's likely a market for a related product for both the backyard gardener as well as larger projects.

[joshril]

This is an interesting idea... You need to be seeking advice from an attorney on this. If you cannot afford an attorney, you do not need to be doing this... not trying to be negative, but it is what it is.

Additionally, many attorneys offer a free consultation. Start there. Good luck!

[Matthew Moyer]

Thanks for all the ideas and replies.

I'm gonna work on creating some sort of salesletter
and see if I can afford a website to put it up on to see
what kind of response it will bring.

If it doesn't bring any response I won't pursue this idea
any further and see if I can raise the money some other
way.

Thanks again.

[Jillian Slack]

I think it's a great idea!

The only problem would be whether your area has laws about this type of thing.

Sometimes an idea might sound fabulous and you would not be able to fathom any laws or restrictions getting in your way. But some cities and counties have laws that just don't make sense.

Where I live, there is a big "urban gardener" movement. People are planting their own gardens, and a lot of them are interested in selling their surplus at farmers' markets. But the city does not allow anyone to sell produce from their gardens. It is to be for the consumption of the homeowner.

Sounds like a perfectly fine thing to do -- grow some veggies in a safe environment without adding pesticides to them, share them with others in the area, and make a little money for your efforts.

But it can't be done here.

So it is definitely worth discussing with someone where you live, before you dive in.

Like someone else mentioned, you probably have some fabulous knowledge that could be turned into an info product.

Organic gardening is so hot right now. Anything related to sustainability is hot, really.

Good luck!

[Dave777]

Unlimited ways and ideas to setup little mini pieces of land, selling, renting, sharing or whatever! Just give it a nice little "twist" along with a good chat with your local, legal and tax buddies...
How to Make an Income From Your Little Piece of Land gardenandgreen.co.uk - garden and green website
Homestead Income Ideas!
Apartment Therapy Chicago | Would You Buy Land Strictly For Gardening?
Land Sharing is a New Trend : TreeHugger

Dave

[wiley1]

Sounds like a great idea. It is involved, and sounds like it will require quite a bit of capital, and legal and technical expertise.

I would suggest that you consult an attorney that specializes in this area. Most attorneys will give you a FREE one hour consultation. He/she can then discuss the strategy of asking for money in advance from prospective "investors", and also direct you to the people you would need to speak to about zoning, food and health regulations, etc., and all the other legal considerations involved.

[shaddai]

What's to be grown in
the greenhouse if I ever get one isn't going
to be illegal things like I think you were
insinuating with your comment.

Hehe...I was just kidding..however I do think it might be a bit more profitable!!

Anyway, to tell you the truth, I've got a 40 gallon fish tank hooked to 120 gallons of aquatic plants. Doesn't 100% keep me from changing the water, but it goes quite a while.

As far as the website, check your PM's.

Todd

[Steve Powers]

Great idea,but to be honest,I'm not sure whether it's credible.Do you think guys would like to purchase that things?Maybe you will have a tough course to promote your idea.
Well,wish you good luck.

[Matthew Moyer]

I was thinking the same thing that it might be hard to promote.

I'm not sure who would be the market and how to actually
get word to them without any money to pay for ads.

[BIG Mike]

Originally Posted by Matthew Moyer

I was thinking the same thing that it might be hard to promote.

I'm not sure who would be the market and how to actually
get word to them without any money to pay for ads.

I don't really think promoting this via the web is a good idea on the front-end. It's not the sort of thing that would easily attract investors outside of your own region.

That's why it's so much better to look for financial support in the area where you're going to build it. It's something potential supporters can look at and see results first hand.

You could even hit up organizations like the Boy/Girl Scouts, Churches, Salvation Army, etc., to get the ball rolling

[sidebinder]

Regardless of the barriers that you visibly see right now, you're on the right track.

You create your OWN reality through your beliefs about YOU.

If you believe it can NOT happen, it will NOT happen. If however, the belief is strong and the rough persistence is there for you to stick it out long enough. It's more than possible.

You see, as a human being, you've been given quite possibly the best gift of all: The ability to project your thoughts outward into physical reality. The essential power that built our civilization up to where it is now!

So others have come before you. Remember that. You CAN make it happen.

The only HURDLE in your way is YOU. Generally whether you decide to COMMIT and MARRY the idea. Or DIVORCE and LEAVE it for that younger hottie. It's you and whether you take the action steps or not that are the only thing that stand in your way.

The basic action steps would consist of: Raising the Capital, putting together your Team, and ultimately figuring out how much TIME this is all going to take.

Money and People are important but, the TIME component is much much more important.

Now, when you're in the position where you have NO money, or a PRE-EXISTING product to sell. All you are really have left to go with is YOUR IDEAS. So, you need a medium to convey what's in your head to other people. The resources for this project will inevitably come from OTHERS. Ask yourself if you are COMFORTABLE WORKING WITH OTHERS.

Next to TIME. Working with other people is of the utmost importance. All resources in the economy are a derivative of OTHER PEOPLE anyway. So, you'll have to get used to it.

You need a well written plan which you can make copies of to lever your ideas.

Personally, I have spent years sowing the pieces of this great puzzle together. The one we call: "Turning an IDEA into REALITY."

If anything, I'd say that our whole existence here hinges on learning that basic principle. The ones who master it become very free, rich, and happy. The ones who don't end up miserable, poor, and unhappy.

I don't want to get to METAPHYSICAL on you here so I'll go into some result based solutions for you.

The core-fundamentals you will need to learn and thoroughly understand is 1. THE CORPORATION. 2. OTHER PEOPLE. 3. RESOURCE AND TIME MANAGEMENT.

You yourself need to operate as either the CEO of your own Corporation. Or as the SELLING-SHAREHOLDER.

The only way you're going to do this is if you LEARN-HOW-TO-RAISE-CAPITAL-THROUGH-THE-CORPORATE-ARCHITECTURE.

The corporation is the key because after you've created your plan and established the members of your team... you can begin creating shares and exchanging them for the MONEY or NECESSARY RESOURCES.

You can raise FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE based capital through three primary means:

A. Selling Shares of Corporate Venture. Creating PROPERTY that Investors will want to OWN. A Corporate Stock Certificate is pure ownership interest.
B. Using Corporate Debentures. Putting the Corporation IN DEBT.
C. Pre-Sale of your Product/Service. Promising a PRODUCT or a SERVICE at a later date.

Now, I've covered the basic building blocks of raising FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES. But, Federal Reserve Notes are only one form of resource. The EXCHANGEABLE kind.

The OTHER FORMS would be the Capital Goods actually used in the PRODUCTION of your PRODUCTS. For example: A. LAND B. BUILDING MATERIALS FOR THE GREEN HOUSES C. SOLAR-EQUIPMENT D. OTHER RAW GOODS LIKE FERTILIZER & SEEDS E. ALL OF THE ABOVE

The next important resource is TIME. Whose responsible for all this?

Will you need employees, salesmen, lawyers, accountants, insurance agents, bankers, stock brokers. What is the "HUMAN CAPITAL" aspect of all this.

You're NOT going to be able to get to big doing it all by yourself. Also when you take into account the fact that you're trying to feed the whole planet. Well, that's going to require A LOT OF PEOPLE and RESOURCES.

So overall... you need to learn AND understand the Corporation, People, and Resource/Time Management.

Some great places to interactively learn how to DEAL WITH PEOPLE would be to:

a. Join a TOAST-MASTERS CLUB: TOASTMASTERS (dot) ORG
b. Start going to your Town or County Meetings.
c. Join a local church.
d. Go to seminars.
e. Go to PLACES where there is PEOPLE.

FREE advice... you can get that from either SCORE: SCORE (dot) ORG or the SBA: SBA (dot) GOV.

Score is OVERLY helpful and wants to see you succeed. Find one near you.

The biggest issue you're going to probably face is the "PEOPLE" issue. But, keep in mind... if you can get over the "PEOPLE" issue, you're gaining a skill only half a percent of the population truly has and why 1/10th of a percent of the population HAS as much income as the bottom 47% of the population.

All wealth, ideas, money, and other resources come from people.

[Matthew Moyer]

This is looking impossible.

Isn't filing articles of corporation like three thousand
dollars or something like that?

Also are you able to start a corporation and be the
only person working on it?

It looks like I'm going to have to find another way
of raising the funds to do this.