Political discussions are not allowed here

[Paul Myers]

I just went through this with some folks in offtopic. I see it starting to infect the main forum. Several threads worth of information on currency fluctuations, much of it useful, have been deleted because some of those same folks ignored the warnings.

Political discussions in this forum have a long history of becoming vicious, and making enemies of people who needn't be. For that reason, discussions of politics are forbidden. If you start a thread that has any normal likelihood of generating political commentary, expect it to get deleted. If you take a thread on an economic issue and add anything that remotely smells of politics to it, expect to get a time-out.

Yes, that sucks. Just not as much as letting the discussions degenerate into the kinds of nastiness they always end up becoming.


Paul

[ronakshah]

Paul, Make a sticky of this note. Let people be aware of the rules.

My 2c on this one.

[Online Bliss]

This should be a forum that's above all the petty trash.

True, I show up here to learn something new
and to assist if I am knowledgeable.

[threatlevelorange]

I think this is a good rule. I now understand why my "political blog" thread was taken down. Thanks for clearing the air.

[cherylwright]

Absolutely agree. I own an egroup where people try to veer into the political arena, and I quickly move them on.

There are two things (in my opinion) that should never been discussed on public forums. They are politics and religion.

They're a sure way to get the blood boiling and people ready to kill each other!




Cheryl

[Don Schenk]

I have a close friend who has political and relegious beliefs the exact opposit of mine. One of us is very, very, very, very conservative and the other very, very, very, very liberal. We are about as far apart in our beliefs as two people can be.

We never discuss religion or politics. I may make a comment now and then that coincides with my beliefs, and he may do the same about his beliefs. We never try to tell the other person he is wrong. We accept each others right to have different viewpoints...

... and we stay away from dicussing these hot topics.

It works. We have been friends for many years.

:-Don

[sbucciarel]

Perfect example of why it is banned. Already a little snit brewing in this thread. I welcome this rule. I'm not here to discuss politics. I get more than my share of that living with one Democrat and one Republican. Religion, I assume, is or should be off limits as well. Only lead to flames, bad feelings, and a degradation of relevant topics.

[MichaelHiles]

I agree Paul, but the problem is that business (money) and politics are fairly wired together, so at some point there's crossover.

This is a site about business, so politics will enter in at times (like the currency discussions).

If we all could just discuss the issues without acting like pre-schoolers over it, gosh... what a concept.

[Kevin Riley]

I think that all of us who wear blue paper hats should band against those wearing green paper hats, for they are obviously misguided.

[rainspeak]

Being positive is as contagious as being negative. The difference is in the benefit and how you want to spend your time. Your future is being built in the moment. In agreeing with Paul politics and the discussion of, has this whole other forum.

[bgmacaw]

Unfortunately there are political issues, such as recent actions by the FTC that essentially criminalize affiliate marketing, that online marketers need to be concerned about. Blithely ignoring the erosion of economic freedom or how one's business might be affected the implementation of these laws is dangerous.

Outside of political issues that directly affect the operation of online business I can see that there's a good reason for not allowing the discussions here.

[SimonHarrison]

I think I actually concurr with Paul on this issue, no good ever comes of it on public forums.

[avenuegirl]

2 topics I avoid with parents, inlaws, and most people in general:

Politics and Religion

I think there are ways to discuss these things from a marketing or analytical perspective without bringing personal viewpoints into it.

If someones intention here is to turn me into a Hari Krishna or tell me I need to join their political party or rip into someone else for their choice of religion or political party then they need to go to a different forum.

Off topic can be a fun place to let loose. Let's keep it that way.

[sam12six]

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

I think that all of us who wear blue paper hats should band against those wearing green paper hats, for they are obviously misguided.

I and my fellow green hatters will be more than ready for your aggression...

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Unfortunately there are political issues, such as recent actions by the FTC that essentially criminalize affiliate marketing, that online marketers need to be concerned about. Blithely ignoring the erosion of economic freedom or how one's business might be affected the implementation of these laws is dangerous.

Outside of political issues that directly affect the operation of online business I can see that there's a good reason for not allowing the discussions here.

This is true. A discussion of something that is in direct relation to IM makes sense as a factual informational type thing. It only degenerates into bickering when you get into a "what should the government do" discussion.

I think this bickering and childishness is inherent in the online forum. Imagine a post on a forum titled "New cheeseburger flavored jellybean released". The only people who bother to post a reply are going to be people who either really like or dislike jellybeans or cheeseburgers. This is going to result in opinion clashes. This is fine when you're talking about candy and fast food. The problem is multiplied when you're talking about people's differing opinion about whether or not you've wasted your life and doomed your soul or whether your type of thinking is ruining your country.

It turns into a big accusation and inspires a big response. On a narrow-focus forum like the WF, this just equals distraction.

[sbucciarel]

Originally Posted by bgmacaw

Unfortunately there are political issues, such as recent actions by the FTC that essentially criminalize affiliate marketing, that online marketers need to be concerned about. Blithely ignoring the erosion of economic freedom or how one's business might be affected the implementation of these laws is dangerous.

Outside of political issues that directly affect the operation of online business I can see that there's a good reason for not allowing the discussions here.

To me this response is a perfect example of how to turn a thread into a political discussion. It should be fairly easy to discuss how to comply with the new FTC guidelines without the "conspiracy theory" crap. Many of us believe that the FTC guidelines are targeting deceptive marketing practices that all too frequently used, and others believe that any attempt to regulate marketing is an evil plot to diminish our freedom to liberate customers of their money by any means available.

There are plenty of ways to discuss the FTC and any other regulations that affect business without asserting pure opinion into it.

[Elmer Hurlstone]

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

I think that all of us who wear blue paper hats should band against those wearing green paper hats, for they are obviously misguided.

Mr. Riley, you've confused discrimination with politics.

Politics deals with the art, science, application and effect (on us) of governance.

Discrimination is recognition of differences (of any kind) between groups of people and different treatment (often less fair) of one group by the other primarily because of those differences.

Case in point: I'm not a particular fancier of certain furry little rodents called hamsters. I've been known to make snide remarks about the stupid little animals and–occasionally–their owners. That's discrimination.

Our oldest granddaughter loves cute, furry, cuddly little animals called hamsters. She owns several. My wife and daughter have advised me in no uncertain terms that I will not make, in their collective opinion, unkind remarks about hamsters. Should I do so there may be consequences. That's politics.

I hope this analogy assists you in getting your hamsterized brain around these concepts.

Elmer

PS. For a really great illustration on discrimination and the effects thereof read, "Made to Stick", by Chip and Dan Heath. The book is about why some ideas "stick" and many others don't. A "must read" for all marketers, salespeople and writers!

[Kevin Riley]

Originally Posted by Elmer Hurlstone

Mr. Riley, you've confused discrimination with politics.

Quite obviously, if you don't recognize the political significance of blue and green hats, you must be one of the yellow hats, which means that we don't recognize you or your party's strange dislike of furry animals.

[TheRichJerksNet]

I vote for the sticky ... Well I better not use the word Vote, sorry Paul .. Please forgive me I 2nd the motion to make it is a sticky.. Oh wait, that will not work either as it is still kind of similar to politics.

Man I am just screwed anyway I go .. Ok buy you a beer if you make it a sticky There we go that works...

James

[Elmer Hurlstone]

There is exactly one "Sticky" in the "Off Topic Forum":

Religious & Political Topics Are Forbidden!
Sorry folks but enough is enough. We are called the Warriors, yes, but we
don't have forum section that cause members to go to war with each other
and begin to hate each other.

From this point on Religious & Political not allowed and posting them will get
you banned for a while and then for good if it continues.

Take your hatred for the US, UK, Australia, China, Christmas...etc somewhere else.

Not here.

The title and description of the main forum is:

Main Internet Marketing Discussion Forum
Where We Talk About Making Money

You would think the objectives are fairly clear.

Not sure another "sticky" would change anything.

People on a "MISSION" are rarely deterred by rules and signage.

Elmer

[bgmacaw]

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

It should be fairly easy to discuss how to comply with the new FTC guidelines without the "conspiracy theory" crap.

Sorry, but my point all along, which is supported by notable attorneys like Alan Dershowitz and Harvey Silverglate, has been that there isn't any way for anyone to fully comply with the new FTC regulations except to stay off their prosecutorial radar. It isn't "conspiracy theory crap" but our current political and legal reality as online businesspeople. Denying it is dangerous and working to change it is essential.

[Istvan Horvath]

Originally Posted by cherylwright

There are two things [...] that should never been discussed on public forums. They are politics and religion.

Sounds like to good ol' rules of a Masonic lodge

[BradCarroll]

Originally Posted by Elmer Hurlstone

Politics deals with the art, science, application and effect (on us) of governance.

Most often, it just seems to give people an excuse to be abusive to each other.

[Paul Myers]

Before I get into this, I want to point out that I ran that wording by Allen before posting it, since it contains an interpretation of policy.

We've had examples in this thread. David Halek made a comment that was neither partisan, ideological, nor divisive in nature. Someone objected, presumably based on their partisan preferences and different background. Even if that presumption is wrong, the effect is the same, as someone would read it that way and react accordingly.

Michael Hiles said:

I agree Paul, but the problem is that business (money) and politics are fairly wired together, so at some point there's crossover.

This is a site about business, so politics will enter in at times (like the currency discussions).

If we all could just discuss the issues without acting like pre-schoolers over it, gosh... what a concept.

As far as that last part... I don't think anyone who was active in the political stuff that went on in offtopic gets to throw that stone, Michael.

Yes, there is crossover. That crossover is used by many as an excuse for abuse. Since the resulting nastiness tends to polarize the whole group, and offends great heaping swaths of the membership for no valid or useful purpose that's relevant to the group's function, it can't be allowed.

If it were limited to one or two people, with the rest handling the discussions rationally, the solution would be simple: Ban them if they refused to play nice. It's not that limited, though. It's a plague.

That's the part that sucks. But it's also reality.

An example of how it creeps in:

Unfortunately there are political issues, such as recent actions by the FTC that essentially criminalize affiliate marketing, that online marketers need to be concerned about. Blithely ignoring the erosion of economic freedom or how one's business might be affected the implementation of these laws is dangerous.

It is entirely possible to discuss the effects of the FTCs clarification on policies regarding disclosure without adding the ideological commentary about "erosion of economic freedom."

The last part might make for a valid and interesting discussion, with useful points on both sides, but it's not going to happen here.

The perspectives from which to discuss such topics in this forum are legal and practical ones, not political or ideological.

The challenge isn't one person offending another. That's going to happen in any large group discussion. It's not always even a bad thing. The challenge is group polarization, and the destructive result that follows.


Paul

[Scott Ames]

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

I think that all of us who wear blue paper hats should band against those wearing green paper hats, for they are obviously misguided.

I can't stand those wearing green paper hats. Sorry, I know I wasn't supposed to be political, but I have to agree here.

[Paul Myers]

I can't stand those wearing green paper hats. Sorry, I know I wasn't supposed to be political, but I have to agree here.

Another sucker falls for the game.

You guys just don't get it, do you? This whole argument is a scheme by WonderBread and the international toy cartel to keep people focused on primary colors. They get you to choose from a limited set of options, which they define, and they create product lines for each group.

You end up hating each other, but you're all serving the same polystyrene masters.

Fools! Wake up! Boycott red, yellow, blue and green!

End the prismatic tyranny!

[cherylwright]

Funny, but this thread seems to have turned into a policital discussion...






Cheryl

[Elmer Hurlstone]

In addition to "hamster aficionados" anyone NOT wearing a brown-ish fedora is suspect!

[Paul Myers]

Funny, but this thread seems to have turned into a policital discussion...

Save the Earth-tones!

Power to the Pastels!

[TelegramSam]

I vote for Paul for president.

Then again perhaps he has too much common sense to be a politician and we don't deserve him either :-)

[Elmer Hurlstone]

Paul could never win in Philadelphia.

Go Yankees!

[Paul Myers]

Then again perhaps he has too much common sense to be a politician and we don't deserve him either :-)

Anyone who actively seeks political office should be permanently barred from holding it.

Beige is Beautiful!

[Paul Myers]

Elmer,

If you'd like to see just how ridiculous people can be about this stuff, consider the following, in response to my comments about the Yankees in the last newsletter:

Are you aware that not all your subscribers are American?
Are you aware that not all the people in the world know or care
who the Yankees are? Are you aware that there are people in the
world that see sport as the useless competitive rubbish that it
is? Are you aware that opening an email with something as
juvenile and banal and trivial and useless as "...Go Yankees!"
is moronic?

To say that I am seriously disappointed is understatement.

How about a little dose of maturity?

Yeah. That's an exact quote of a response from a subscriber.

Dude must be in pain. I hear that a broken humorous can be excruciating...


Paul

[Killer Joe]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Fools! Wake up! Boycott red, yellow, blue and green!

I just did this, and now I only see things in Black and White.

The fall colors on my trees here look like crap now.

KJ

[Troy_Phillips]

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

I think that all of us who wear blue paper hats should band against those wearing green paper hats, for they are obviously misguided.

This is so offensive . There are those of us on here that would never wear a blue or a green hat .

You really need to understand this before coming around my teal hat posse.

Give me my hat ... excuse me mam ... where's the door

[Troy_Phillips]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Elmer,

If you'd like to see just how ridiculous people can be about this stuff, consider the following, in response to my comments about the Yankees in the last newsletter:Yeah. That's an exact quote of a response from a subscriber.

Dude must be in pain. I hear that a broken humorous can be excruciating...


Paul

Can you not see how painful this could be for a true Braves Fan?

GO BRAVES....... and take the Falcons with you

[KenStrong]

Everyone here is completely and utterly wrong, including myself.

[Paul Myers]

Troy,

Can you not see how painful this could be for a true Braves Fan?

Oooo... I could SO run with this. But I won't. I know how fragile you Alantans are...


Paul

PS: Peach is not a primary color, so you have that going for you.

[Lawrh]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Elmer,

If you'd like to see just how ridiculous people can be about this stuff, consider the following, in response to my comments about the Yankees in the last newsletter:Yeah. That's an exact quote of a response from a subscriber.

Dude must be in pain. I hear that a broken humorous can be excruciating...


Paul

A quote from William Butler Yeats -

"All empty souls tend toward extreme opinions."

As you have noted, either here or in a talkbiz newsletter, many of us do
not have a life away from the computer. Stewing on ideas by oneself and
lashing out at trivialities is the only life some people have. Politics, religion,
sports etc. are merely triggers or excuses to experience emotion. For some
righteous indignation is a metaphoric orgasm. Attacking beliefs, is the
swinging of a sword.

Perhaps, in a world of 6.5 billion, ranting in a marketing forum is the only
way they can make themselves believe what they say has meaning.

Empty souls indeed.

[Paul Myers]

A quote from William Butler Yeats

Okay. There's something poetically incongruent about a Gorn quoting Yeats on extremism.

Everything after that is anti-climax.


Paul

[Kevin Riley]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Elmer,

my comments about the Yankees in the last newsletter:

Baseball: A sport broadcast on television specifically to help cure insomnia.

[Elmer Hurlstone]

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

Baseball: A sport broadcast on television specifically to help cure insomnia.

Heresy, Riley, heresy!

But then, perhaps I should not expect better from a hamster-loving blue hat wearer!

Respectfully,

Elmer "Go-Yankees" Hurlstone

PS. Were you the guy that sent the email to Paul?

[jacktackett]

Originally Posted by Kevin Riley

Baseball: A sport broadcast on television specifically to help cure insomnia.

I thought that was Golf?

[Kevin Riley]

Originally Posted by jacktackett

I thought that was Golf?

Golf is the backup cure when there are no baseball games on. For those who are sensitive and could suffer the side effects of death from boredom if they use either of these cures, there's the milder cure of watching the station test pattern.

[Bruce Wedding]

One day I hope the concept of moderation posts instead of threads would take hold here. Paul, you're lamenting how useful information was deleted. Hmmmm, if only there was some way in the world we could prevent that. Think, man... think!

[riff]

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Another sucker falls for the game.

You guys just don't get it, do you? This whole argument is a scheme by WonderBread and the international toy cartel to keep people focused on primary colors. They get you to choose from a limited set of options, which they define, and they create product lines for each group.

You end up hating each other, but you're all serving the same polystyrene masters.

Fools! Wake up! Boycott red, yellow, blue and green!

End the prismatic tyranny!

Typical. That's *exactly* what a brown hat would say...

[Lance K]

Paul, would I be out of line if I requested that you add a poll to this thread?

[Killer Joe]

Originally Posted by Lance K

Paul, would I be out of line if I requested that you add a poll to this thread?

What, to hijack or not to hijack?

KJ

[mark z]

Yes, completely agree with you.
Although being off-topic related posts, political discussion will surely "poison" conversations and mislead warriors energy away.
Anyway, "house" rules are strict and clear.
All we have to do is to respect them, right?

[Paul Myers]

One day I hope the concept of moderation posts instead of threads would take hold here. Paul, you're lamenting how useful information was deleted. Hmmmm, if only there was some way in the world we could prevent that. Think, man... think!

Yeah. And then listen to the fights and argue with people who don't know how to behave and want to run the place without putting in the effort.

Been there, done that. Not wasting my time with it, Bruce. Or anyone else's.


Paul

[Elmer Hurlstone]

Now that tonight's World Series Game is over—Yankees-7, Phillies-4—perhaps we can get this thread back on track.

Polls, in the context of a forum, are to gather opinions on subjects of interest to the pollster. In some cases they are very useful.

As they are completely voluntary they're not particularly scientific or, in many cases, valid.

In the case of this forum, which is not in any sense of the word a democracy, but rather a benevolent dictatorship, a poll to measure the "feelings" of some of the membership regarding political expression would serve no valid purpose.

The only probable responders would be those with fairly strong opinions on the matter. They would represent only the extremes of opinion.

Paul stated upthread that he ran the OP by Allen before posting. It's evident by the fact of the post that political discussion is not now and is unlikely to be permitted in the future.

For those wishing to discuss politics there are many places from the local barbershop to a veritable plethora of online forums to do so.

It's actually rather refreshing to be in a "politics free zone."

Elmer