Question on single/double opt-in

[CDarklock]

My general rule of thumb right now - in theory, as I'm only just starting to build my list - is that when someone fills out a form to get free stuff, you use double opt-in to verify that the person receiving the stuff actually wants it.

But when someone provides that email address as the delivery address for a product, and they've paid for the privilege of receiving that product, it's unnecessary (and intrusive) to demand that they confirm. So single opt-in is appropriate here.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Angry rants?

[Spencer Jones]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

My general rule of thumb right now - in theory, as I'm only just starting to build my list - is that when someone fills out a form to get free stuff, you use double opt-in to verify that the person receiving the stuff actually wants it.

But when someone provides that email address as the delivery address for a product, and they've paid for the privilege of receiving that product, it's unnecessary (and intrusive) to demand that they confirm. So single opt-in is appropriate here.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Angry rants?

Yea... Just go to your autoresponder and Just turn off the confirmed optin functionality.

I found, that's the decent way to do it, as we are not hiring our subscribers for work... (opting in and opting in and...) We are here, just to give them what they asked... And not to get them to work...

[mikeyman120]

I agree! But I am using aweber and don't seem to have any option to do single opt in. In either case I send them right through to the product once they submit, and let them reconfirm later. Works OK for me. Most will reconfirm.

Mike

[kay12345]

a double otp in won't put off paid customer, as you said they have paid for it

[ezine ads]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

My general rule of thumb right now - in theory, as I'm only just starting to build my list - is that when someone fills out a form to get free stuff, you use double opt-in to verify that the person receiving the stuff actually wants it.

You shouldn't care so much whether that person really wants a freebie or not.

You should ask yourself whether that person is willing to READ your newsletter (or whatever you call it) or not. If it's only a freebie hunter, your double opt-in means nothing anyway. You just added an email address to your list, but not a reader.

However, if she/he is willing to give you a chance and read your newsletter, then you should take care and improve the deliverability of your emails. So that to be sure that the person RECEIVES your newsletter. One way of improving the emails deliverability is the DOUBLE OPT-IN. That may be indeed a reason for using double opt-in. Verifying that the person really wants your freebie is a fake reason.

[kkchoon]

Originally Posted by mikeyman120

I agree! But I am using aweber and don't seem to have any option to do single opt in. In either case I send them right through to the product once they submit, and let them reconfirm later. Works OK for me. Most will reconfirm.

Mike

Double opt-in just too much steps, and the fact is - you have less list and thus less sales.

I don't care what aweber said about it, I want both options...

[Ellen Violette]

Be careful with double opt in. I went through a period of time a few years ago where I was using double opt in with 1 Shopping cart and I had over 6,000 people start the process and not finish before I realized there was a problem since I didn't really understand technology at the time. Make sure people understand what they have to do to finish opting in if you use a double opt in.

[ezine ads]

Originally Posted by kkchoon

you have less list and thus less sales.

Wrong conclusion. Smaller list doesn't mean less sales. It's a Quality vs. Quantity "debate".

Anyway, single opt-in vs. double opt-in is an endless debate. For some people who have some goals, single opt-in is the best. For other people who have OTHER goals, double opt-in is the best. It doesn't exist an universal solution and everyone says that her/his choice is the best. Wrong. There is no best choice valid for everyone.

[Spencer Jones]

Originally Posted by mikeyman120

I agree! But I am using aweber and don't seem to have any option to do single opt in. In either case I send them right through to the product once they submit, and let them reconfirm later. Works OK for me. Most will reconfirm.

Mike

Yes they do have option for single optin in aweber.

My Lists -> Confirmed Opt-In -> Turn OFF Confirmed Opt-In

[David Ogden]

I only ever use double opt in as the person you are dealing with has to take positive action to continue receiving information from you. It will also help protect you from false spam complaints. You must also always ensure that you customer always has an easy way to opt out of your list.

[garyv]

If you're using aweber, you can always use an email parser. This will automatically add the purchaser to your list w/ out an opt in form, or confirmation:

What is an Email Parser? :: AWeber Knowledge Base

[mikeyman120]

Originally Posted by Spencer Jones

Yes they do have option for single optin in aweber.

My Lists -> Confirmed Opt-In -> Turn OFF Confirmed Opt-In

Hello,
You got me excited there for a second! I went in to my aweber to where you said:

My Lists -> Confirmed Opt-In and there is no option to turn off. It does say this though:

"All subscribe methods require Confirmed Opt-In to ensure only recipients who have specifically requested to be on the list are subscribed. This means you have proof someone opted-in, fewer unsubscribe requests and far fewer spam complaints."

I have heard of this before. People seem to have different options in their aweber accounts for some reason. I wonder if they turn it off based on a certain number of unsubscribes?

Mike

[kkchoon]

Originally Posted by ezine ads

Wrong conclusion. Smaller list doesn't mean less sales. It's a Quality vs. Quantity "debate".

Anyway, single opt-in vs. double opt-in is an endless debate. For some people who have some goals, single opt-in is the best. For other people who have OTHER goals, double opt-in is the best. It doesn't exist an universal solution and everyone says that her/his choice is the best. Wrong. There is no best choice valid for everyone.

As I said, I don't care what people saying, I'm in the same niche same traffic, single opt-in always more sales.

You can argue about the quality and everything, do the test yourself and tell me I'm wrong!

My own experience is more lead - more sales, all other conditions the same, same traffic, same quality content, same opt-in page.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by ezine ads

You shouldn't care so much whether that person really wants a freebie or not.

Well, mostly, I'm concerned about whether somebody's idiot friend is going around signing him up for loads of email lists as a prank.

It comes down to a question of "business relationship" for me. If you just want to download my free stuff, we don't really have a business relationship. If you buy a paid product from me, we do. That's where I intuitively want to draw the line.

[garyv]

Originally Posted by kkchoon

As I said, I don't care what people saying, I'm in the same niche same traffic, single opt-in always more sales.

You can argue about the quality and everything, do the test yourself and tell me I'm wrong!

My own experience is more lead - more sales, all other conditions the same, same traffic, same quality content, same opt-in page.

Who are you using for your autoresponder? Just curious, I may experiment w/ single opt-in on a new product.

[ezine ads]

Originally Posted by kkchoon

You can argue about the quality and everything, do the test yourself and tell me I'm wrong!

My own experience is ...

Did you read my post you're replying to?

Let me say it once again:

"For some people who have some goals, single opt-in is the best. For other people who have OTHER goals, double opt-in is the best. It doesn't exist an universal solution and everyone says that her/his choice is the best. Wrong. There is no best choice valid for everyone."

Someone can only say, "This choice is the best FOR ME" and that is fine.

Saying that, "This choice is the best" is wrong. You don't know what is best for other people

The same is valid for quantity vs. quality debate.

These are endless debates because people don't want to understand that what is valid for them is not valid for others. We are different, we have different goals and different skills.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by garyv

Who are you using for your autoresponder? Just curious, I may experiment w/ single opt-in on a new product.

I'm using ImnicaMail.

Aweber had some weird stuff around single opt-in when I joined. If I remember right, you could create a list and set it as single opt-in, but once you switched it to double opt-in you could never switch it back... and all lists defaulted to double opt-in. So if you saved settings without specifying single opt-in, you were forever doomed to a double opt-in list.

I believe the new pricing plan altered that so you couldn't do single opt-in at all, but I'm not positive. Reports vary.

[ezine ads]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Well, mostly, I'm concerned about whether somebody's idiot friend is going around signing him up for loads of email lists as a prank.

Right, that may happen when you use single opt-in. But as I already mentioned, your real concern has to be (and it seems that it is) your emails deliverability (in case the other guy report your emails as being spam), not whether the idiot wants or not the freebie

On the other hand, that's you (and me, and others). Other people - as can be seen in this thread too - don't care about this issue. Or maybe their prospects are all perfect. I don't know, not my problem. It's their problem, not ours, so it's fine. Everyone does what she/he thinks is best for her/him

[Spencer Jones]

Originally Posted by mikeyman120

Hello,
You got me excited there for a second! I went in to my aweber to where you said:

My Lists -> Confirmed Opt-In and there is no option to turn off. It does say this though:

"All subscribe methods require Confirmed Opt-In to ensure only recipients who have specifically requested to be on the list are subscribed. This means you have proof someone opted-in, fewer unsubscribe requests and far fewer spam complaints."

I have heard of this before. People seem to have different options in their aweber accounts for some reason. I wonder if they turn it off based on a certain number of unsubscribes?

Mike

Do you see this in My Lists -> Confirmed Opt-In

Status
ON

Just clicking on the status will turn your status to OFF and now you are switched to single optin.

[kkchoon]

Originally Posted by garyv

Who are you using for your autoresponder? Just curious, I may experiment w/ single opt-in on a new product.

I'm using Autoresponse plus, still waiting for the ARP4 to launch, but not sure if it will be ready before this year ended...

ImnicaMail seems very promising, you should give it a try, I might switch to this service too, if ARP4 not ready in time.

Originally Posted by CDarklock

I'm using ImnicaMail.

Aweber had some weird stuff around single opt-in when I joined. If I remember right, you could create a list and set it as single opt-in, but once you switched it to double opt-in you could never switch it back... and all lists defaulted to double opt-in. So if you saved settings without specifying single opt-in, you were forever doomed to a double opt-in list.

I believe the new pricing plan altered that so you couldn't do single opt-in at all, but I'm not positive. Reports vary.

Aweber don't allow double opt-in anymore, at least for new members... I remember ImnicaMail allows single opt-in, right?

Just test your own result, I still use single opt-in for most niche, but I would use double opt-in for IM niche.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by ezine ads

But as I already mentioned, your real concern has to be (and it seems that it is) your emails deliverability (in case the other guy report your emails as being spam)

My basic philosophy about that is "send your list things they want."

Like my next product is about SEO and keyword research for article marketers - so I can send the people who buy it information about those things. But no matter how good my product about playing the guitar is, it's got squat to do with SEO and keyword research, so it doesn't belong on that list. Focus on a narrow subject with your list, and keep it relevant.

I think my spam complaints are probably going to be pretty low with that philosophy. I could be wrong.

[CliveG]

Originally Posted by kkchoon

As I said, I don't care what people saying, I'm in the same niche same traffic, single opt-in always more sales.

You can argue about the quality and everything, do the test yourself and tell me I'm wrong!

My own experience is more lead - more sales, all other conditions the same, same traffic, same quality content, same opt-in page.

How much time do you spend dealing with spam complaints?

[ezine ads]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

My basic philosophy about that is "send your list things they want."

Like my next product is about SEO and keyword research for article marketers - so I can send the people who buy it information about those things. But no matter how good my product about playing the guitar is, it's got squat to do with SEO and keyword research, so it doesn't belong on that list. Focus on a narrow subject with your list, and keep it relevant.

I think my spam complaints are probably going to be pretty low with that philosophy. I could be wrong.

What you're saying is correct but I don't know why you're quoting my wording and then you advice me to focus on a narrow subject I thought that the OP (you ) was talking about single/double opt-ins.

I was writing about the idiot from your "story" who subscribes using his friend email address. If you use double opt-in, you won't have any problem in such situation. If you don't, it doesn't matter the content (the narrow subject), the friend of that idiot may still take a certain action on the button "This is Spam". This is what we're talking about, aren't we?

[wiley1]

Spencer Jones is right. They don't advocate your using Single Opt-In, but they do have that function. However, you have to build you list first, and then create the web form after that.

Go to: My Lists -> Confirmed Opt-In -> Turn OFF Double Opt-In

The square will turn from green to red and will say Single Opt-In

[dotcomdude]

There is a third way (perhaps not with aweber, but I use my own code):

Set your list to double opt-in, but still include in mailings those that don't click the confirmation link. This gives you a subset of your list that have confirmed - and you can pick those out and just mail to those if you want to.

Then use cloaked links in any emails you send out, and track the click-thru. This gives you two extra bits of info - the offer that they reponded to (so you can filter them out for similar offers in the future), and the 'last action' date.

One thing you can't have too much of is data!

[kevinfar]

Originally Posted by mikeyman120

Hello,
You got me excited there for a second! I went in to my aweber to where you said:

My Lists -> Confirmed Opt-In and there is no option to turn off. It does say this though:

"All subscribe methods require Confirmed Opt-In to ensure only recipients who have specifically requested to be on the list are subscribed. This means you have proof someone opted-in, fewer unsubscribe requests and far fewer spam complaints."

I have heard of this before. People seem to have different options in their aweber accounts for some reason. I wonder if they turn it off based on a certain number of unsubscribes?

Mike

just click on the green square, select ok and it will change to red. you have now changed to single opt in.

[Anonymous Affiliate]

Here are MY stats: around 35% of the people in non IM niches (people who are not familiar with the double opt-in procedure) never click on Aweber's confirmation link. Maybe they forget to do it, maybe they get confused (even though I clearly state on the Thank You page that they must click on the confirmation link that's just been emailed to them) or maybe Aweber's confirmation link looks spammy to them. Whatever the reason is, I lose a large percentage of my subscribers along the way when using double opt-ins.

The problem with single opt-ins is that you're liable to potential spam accusation and Aweber *might* eventually give you headaches in this regard. So my conclusion is this: double opt-ins are safer but less efficient.

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

My general rule of thumb right now - in theory, as I'm only just starting to build my list - is that when someone fills out a form to get free stuff, you use double opt-in to verify that the person receiving the stuff actually wants it.

But when someone provides that email address as the delivery address for a product, and they've paid for the privilege of receiving that product, it's unnecessary (and intrusive) to demand that they confirm. So single opt-in is appropriate here.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Angry rants?

I tend to agree with you, although I position the confirmation a little differently.

I position it as an added service. I'm not verifying whether or not they want what I'm offering - I assume that, rightly or wrongly. I'm verifying whether I can deliver what they want to the address they typed in.

Rather than asking them to "confirm their subscription" or similar, I ask them to click the link to verify that the email arrived safely.

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

Here are MY stats: around 35% of the people in non IM niches (people who are not familiar with the double opt-in procedure) never click on Aweber's confirmation link. Maybe they forget to do it, maybe they get confused (even though I clearly state on the Thank You page that they must click on the confirmation link that's just been emailed to them) or maybe Aweber's confirmation link looks spammy to them. Whatever the reason is, I lose a large percentage of my subscribers along the way when using double opt-ins.

The problem with single opt-ins is that you're liable to potential spam accusation and Aweber *might* eventually give you headaches in this regard. So my conclusion is this: double opt-ins are safer but less efficient.

Unless you know what's going on, Aweber's default confirmation message practically begs the reader not to click the link. And it seems that most marketers won't take time to customize the message.

As far as spam complaints and Aweber, it's never been an issue with me and it never will. Of course, that's mainly because I don't use Aweber...

[Matt M]

Originally Posted by ezine ads

Wrong conclusion. Smaller list doesn't mean less sales. It's a Quality vs. Quantity "debate".

I see people argue this all the time but my question is this, if I'm making x amount of sales with a list of 100 then wouldn't I be making less sales if I reduce my list to 80?

My conversion rate for sales is the same at 80 as it is at 100 so the conclusion that one would make less sales with a smaller list seems to be pretty accurate to me.

Matt