2 types of IM marketer

[graham41]

There are basically 2 types of internet marketers:

1) Those who just want to make a quick buck- never mind providing quality, you can see them advocating recycling PLR offerings that were based on recycled material to begin with.

Depending on the copy, these could have a high perceived value but in fact add nothing to the buyer's life especially if that buyer is looking to make it on-line.

But the customers wlling suspension of basic common sense encourages this.

5 years ago I bought and rebranded an e-book to resell fot $10. No-one bought. So I re jigged it and sexed it up a bit , them sold it for $97 it sold!!

So the customer is to blame, they are asking to be treated that way.

2) Provide real quality. That is so difficult. The tecnology of the internet may have evolved , but I bet that the same principles that held true 10 years ago still hold true now . I feel certain that those IMers that continue to make big bucks are the silent ones who continue to market as they did 10 years ago, modified with new technology.

I dispair when I search the net for some good material to find so many millions PLR ( low quality) offerings for $1 or for free that some of us try to resell to the public.

[David Mcalorum]

You forgot the other two:

Action takers
&
Fence sitters.

Buying PLR, RR, MRR and reselling it does not make someone a Internet Marketer...

James

[Colin Theriot]

I agree with you 110%. Here are some more handy percentages to keep in mind, too.

85% of humans are so un-self-aware that they may as well be sleepwalking through their whole lives. Evolution would normally have killed off those people back in the caveman days, but now society supports them and they somehow end up having money. They live almost entirely by their emotions and animal drives and use their logical minds only to attempt to rationalize the stupid things they do.

The other 15% of humans are different - slightly more evolved and self-reflective. They are self-aware, and have some amount of mental discipline - enough to have their logical mind have control over their emotional one. But this group has a very big split.

Of that 15%, 5% want to help out and lift up the other 85%. They are filled with compassion and want to live in a better world. Most of the people in this class would consider "marketing" and "persuasion" distasteful and pushy. That's mostly just misplaced morality and a fundamental failure in understanding communication. It's sad, really, how ineffective this well-meaning 5% are at doing what they're trying to do.

The other 10% don't see any reason to "wake up" the other 85% while their in a handy position to exploit them. After all, they're gullible, and have money for the taking. In fact, you could argue that they don't even really deserve to HAVE any money at all. This is where most marketers are. Myself included, though for personal reasons, I only try to market things that will actually make people's lives better and make them happy. Is it a real, lasting, tangible happiness? No. Did they really NEED to buy ANYTHING I ever sold them? No. But I don't care. So long as I make people happier for a little while as we all march inexorably to the grave, then I'm satisfied to take money in exchange for persuading them. I certainly don't defraud or harm people. Unfortunately, some of the more exploitative people out there don't really have those same personal moral problems with leaving people worse off than they found them.

I like to think of it as the difference between shepherds and wolves. Both are going to exploit the sheep - that's the whole point. But the "shepherd" will treat the sheep well, give them a good life, and benefit and profit from a win-win situation by getting wool and milk and cheese and mutton and lamb and all that (lanolin!)...

The wolf will just eat the sheep. Sure, it's a little sustenance, but then, no more sheep. Map this to the real world where this means either someone is tapped dry and left broke, or is so infuriated by being ripped off that they just quit buying stuff. Either way, the wolf and the shepherd both lose in that case.

For me, I try to be one of the good guys, because they already have too many of the bad ones. The whole "making useful content that really helps people" is a WAY less competitive market, you know?

And one final percentage that remains true no matter if the above percentages shift around drastically or not. I got it from one of my favorite writers, Theodore Sturgeon: "99% of everything is crap..."

So regardless of the intentions of the creators or marketers, that's just the way it is. 99% of EVERYTHING is going to be CRAP. No matter what. So if you're willing to deal with that, and accept that part of LIFE is having to sort through the crap to find the good stuff, then you'll do well.

NOTE: People often think this whole "99% is crap" thing is somehow new or recent. This is a species-spanning feature of human nature. Our ability to find the good stuff in an environment of almost overwhelmingly useless and/or dangerous stuff is what separated us from all the other monkeys a long time ago.

It's probably the whole reason language developed in the first place, so we could share that information with other monkeys as to where that 1% of tasty bananas could be found in the 99% of inedible jungle.

The whole point I'm trying to make though is, just try as hard as you can to be in that 1%, because that's what will make any effort stand out.

Anyway, enough rambling. Nice post! :P

[Slin]

I disagree with the above, most people I have met are extremely intelligent. In fact I have only met about two people who were "asleep" and they were druggies.

PLR products can be fine if they offer good information, let's face it guys IM doesn't change all that much. Most of the information is all going to be the same.

The latest products are usually the same techniques that were being sold 5 years ago, the market seems to go in cycles kind of like fashion. There are changes along the way, but not drastic ones.

[um1001]

It is basic sales technique applied to a new medium. Simple as that.

[steveweber]

A shorter way of describing the 2 types are:

1. Those who only "flip bits".

2. Those that create value.

Of course it is true that both types have the potential for great success.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Colin:

I liked the Shepherd/wolf illustration until I realized that
it's not win/win for the shepherd and the sheep : the
sheep gets it's throat ripped out either way.

[TelegramSam]

Originally Posted by Colin Theriot

85% of humans are so un-self-aware that they may as well be sleepwalking through their whole lives. Evolution would normally have killed off those people back in the caveman days, but now society supports them and they somehow end up having money. They live almost entirely by their emotions and animal drives and use their logical minds only to attempt to rationalize the stupid things they do.

I definitely regard one of my neighbours as a caveman. All he seems to do is grunt occassionally when we meet :-)

I think a lot of people are "socially" intelligent and can talk a conversation, but when it comes to taking action they prefer to sit in front of the TV and also have others tell them how their lives should be.

These definitely make up the majority.

As sad as this is, it also shows you that it isn't that hard to rise above this mediocre level and stand out.

Sam

[thunderbird]

I have seen people in crappy situations, in crappy states of mind, do very well after getting some help from others. Many of us would be dead in the caveman days. I'd be dead because of an abscess tooth.

In fact, this whole idea of not helping others in a disadvantaged situation does exist, and doesn't work very well. I've seen it firsthand in South America. Here's how it works: Extremely rich, and extremely poor.

It also seems to be the biggest beneficiaries of corporate welfare and individuals who gained their wealth via looting taxpayers' money who are the greatest proponents of a Darwinian approach to society. It's basically diverting attention from their thieving ways by blaming poor people.

[Richard Odell]

Originality makes a real Internet Marketer, the ability to stand out in crowd will always get you attention. Attention is what will always make you money (that and a solid solution to what they desire?).

Knowing how they "tick" also helps?

Horses for courses, not two, infinite....

-Rich

[Slin]

I find that most of those who "work for the man" are actually happy with their lives. I understand that we want to be independent, but that doesn't mean everyone does.

For instance my friend is a math major, he plans on working in a team for the government that creates mathematical encryption codes for the military. He wants to work in a group, and does not mind working for someone.

My father works for someone, he is not an executive, but he does not mind working for someone. He find that he is doing exactly what he wants in life. His work involves what is going on in the world (news).

What is wrong with working for someone? Especially if it is what you want to do.

[JonMills]

Originally Posted by MJGrae

You forgot the other two:

Action takers
&
Fence sitters.

Exactly...

[808glass]

Originally Posted by Richard Odell

Originality makes a real Internet Marketer, the ability to stand out in crowd will always get you attention. Attention is what will always make you money (that and a solid solution to what they desire?).
-Rich

Good quote. It's understated how difficult it is to be original in a crowded market like IM. Definately seperates the strong from the weak.

[Loren Woirhaye]

I was reading a book on inventing things recently and the author
cited a scientist who was considered at the top of his game
in research and new ideas.

The scientist said the difference between people like himself
and everybody else was he had the capacity to focus intently
on one single problem for 15 minutes.

Most people cannot focus (think) with a singleminded focus
for more than 30 seconds, let alone 15 minutes.

This is more or less the same insight as Napoleon Hill's
"Think and Grow Rich" - that if you can discipline yourself
to really THINK in a directed and practical way to solve
problems which people would pay to have solved, then
you can make a lot of money and serve humanity too.

It's really not complicated in concept - FOCUS - but in
practicality very little in our consumer culture teaches
profound focus.

I heard a commentary on NPR the other day where the speaker
lamented that our society has become FIXATED on GADGETS
which distract our best and brightest young minds (in fact
all young minds, pretty much) away from the big problems
they'll need to focus on solving to more civilization forward.

That's the culture of Ipods, Bluetooths, CelPhones, Video Games,
YouTube, and countless other pointless pavlovian technological
stimulants that allow people to wander through life feeling
fulfilled when they aren't actually making a contribution
in a meaningful way; I mean not coming anywhere near your
capacity.

For example: what if your child has the gifts to be the
next YoYo Ma - yet he squanders his gifts of eye-hand
coordination playing video games. Sure, he feels gratified
by his skills and winning the games, but does he contribute
in any way to the betterment of the human condition?

This is actually a pretty serious issue. At least I think so -
the technology toys and entertainments young people of
today take for granted are like the dopamine given to
rats to reward them for running a maze correctly - and
the rats prefer the dope to food and die of starvation.

Anyway, if you're clever enough to be aware of what people
will buy and sell it at a profit I hope you'll put some of the
money you make to good use making the world a place
of more free-thought and more capable contributors.

I am not arguing that young people today are stupid or
made so by all the gadgets - but that we only walk on this
earth for 20,000 days more or less - we should be asking
ourselves if we are really making the best of it by merely
seeking the tiny rewards of playing with electronic toys
and other shallow stimulations.

[Colin Theriot]

Originally Posted by Slin

I disagree with the above, most people I have met are extremely intelligent. In fact I have only met about two people who were "asleep" and they were druggies.

Yeah, I don't hang around with dummies voluntarily either. But honestly, you really must not get out much. I don't need any more evidence of my premise than looking at what "pop culture" sells. And look, even "intelligent" people can be asleep. I have a very good friend of mine who is highly intelligent and basically ruined two marriages by having an affair with a married man (not her husband).

She doesn't even know WHY she did it. "I was lonely I guess". I can guarantee you that what happened was that she was coasting on autopilot, acting solely on animalistic instincts and emotional drive, and only let the logic in to try to justify what happened afterwards.

This is a person who in some aspects, like career, is fully in control. But look at the wreckage she wrought in her personal life without really even DECIDING consciously to do it? How many people do you know, even smart ones, who take life's ride where it throws them, never bothering to steer (or even hang on)?

Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye

Colin:

I liked the Shepherd/wolf illustration until I realized that
it's not win/win for the shepherd and the sheep : the
sheep gets it's throat ripped out either way.

Well, sort of. Some shepherds don't use the sheep for meat ever. You can think of the shepherd as a vegetarian if you like. The point I was making is that even though the sheep are technically being exploited, they're happy. They trot right up to be sheared. But still, it's just a metaphor.

Originally Posted by TelegramSam

I definitely regard one of my neighbours as a caveman. All he seems to do is grunt occassionally when we meet :-)

I think a lot of people are "socially" intelligent and can talk a conversation, but when it comes to taking action they prefer to sit in front of the TV and also have others tell them how their lives should be.

These definitely make up the majority.

As sad as this is, it also shows you that it isn't that hard to rise above this mediocre level and stand out.

Sam

This is exactly my point. Thanks. I think it was Dan Kennedy that popularized the quote about "people walk around with their umbilical cord in their hands looking for somewhere to plug it in".

When I say people are "asleep" I mean the ones that can live their whole lives, never leave a 10 mile radius, never do half the things they ever wanted, and still not even have the capability of comprehending that that's in any way a sad, sad waste.

Anyone who is even capable of behavior that they can't explain is exactly the kind of "asleep" person I mean. If that's how you live your life, you're basically just a monkey that talks, not a thinking, reasoning human being.

Which is fine, really. I envy dummies some times. It must be nice to be able to tolerate being bored out your mind constantly. Like I said, I'm not one of those exploiters who are particularly resentful or condescending to these "Sleeping" people. Judgement is not mine. But I think it's each one's own responsibility whether you wake up or not.

And by the way, just because you're in the 15% doesn't mean you can't be sold to or persuaded. All it means is that you're generally guided by willpower rather than emotion. But what makes someone "awake" vs "asleep" is a matter of development of a particular perception or part of the psyche. Inside every "awakened" person is a sleeper that I can persuade to do whatever I like as long as I sufficiently distract that logical part of the brain.

None of y'all are safe, lol.

What a fun topic!

[thunderbird]

Taking action in and of itself is not enough. What a person needs to do is take right action. Sadly, there are many internet marketers who took action and ended up broke because they took wrong action. How to take right action? Usually it is is to keep on trying and mistaking mistakes until you do it right. There is no 100% guarantee that IM efforts will pay off. The only 100% guarantee is that if you take no shots, you'll score no goals.

[Bill Farnham]

Originally Posted by Slin

I disagree with the above, most people I have met are extremely intelligent. In fact I have only met about two people who were "asleep" and they were druggies.

That will change. Unless you're grading on a curve...

KJ

[damongreene]

I believe you can create value with PLR. You take the concepts and add your own expertise to it. Use PLR as a foundation (the information) and build upon it to add value. We all have our own spin, lessons learned and experiences, stories to add.

Key is are you a Winer and Complainer? Or an ACtion TAker? Are you an Educated Fool? Or a fool that takes Action! It doesnt have to be perfect... just has to be.

Get out and MAKE IT HAPPEN.

[CDarklock]

As George Carlin said, think about how stupid the average person is. Then realise that half of them are even stupider!

[thunderbird]

The average foot size for a male is 9, and height 5'9" with 32" leg length. So we better make darn sure everybody wears size nine shoes, and 32" pants (that's how standardized education works). Sure some people are smarter than others. Me, I'm pretty good at some things and a total numbskull in others, so I personally wouldn't be intellectually honest in assuming superiority over others.

[graham41]

wonderful contributions.

One piece of advice: House moving is a pain, but hey I'm making some money out of it.

Denham Bucks here I come!!

Newsflash to estate agents: ''Property prices about to plummet in Denham area dueto a certain undesirabe taking up residence there'

G

[Mohammad Afaq]

Originally Posted by MJGrae

You forgot the other two:

Action takers
&
Fence sitters.

These are the two main types of internet marketers and the only difference is that fence sitters just keep sitting there and action takers are the ones who quit there jobs and get the freedom that everyone desires and is online for.

[ExRat]

Hi Slin (reply #5 & #12),

What is wrong with working for someone? Especially if it is what you want to do.

Robert Kiyosaki's 'Rich Dad,Poor Dad' focuses mainly on answering that question comprehensively.

In short - our society is structured in such a way that it rewards those who seek personal and financial independence, freedom and control. Likewise, it punishes those who do the opposite and choose to position themselves in a vulnerable position (relying on others (who have their own agenda) to provide stability) that leaves them ripe for exploitation.

EG

Rewarded - the more money you have (owned or simply passing through your control), the less everything costs (for example, borrowing money or investing).

Punished - PAYE - employees have their taxes deducted for them before they get their money.

As Colin said above -

85% of humans are so un-self-aware that they may as well be sleepwalking through their whole lives

Slin - I agree that for the majority, that is what they want, and choose to do. But that doesn't make it right. Even while enslaved, one should still maintain the desire to gain freedom.

[Matt Maiden]

Originally Posted by Colin Theriot

85% of humans are so un-self-aware that they may as well be sleepwalking through their whole lives. Evolution would normally have killed off those people back in the caveman days, but now society supports them and they somehow end up having money. They live almost entirely by their emotions and animal drives and use their logical minds only to attempt to rationalize the stupid things they do.

Where do you get your "facts" from? What studies can you provide?

I would like to read this in it's original form.

When you say "caveman days" what period exactly?

Really interested in seeing the studies that support this and how they came to that conclusion.

Matt

p.s. read Big Mike's thread

Bet You Feel Pretty Stupid Now For Following That Guy’s Advice, Huh?

[Slin]

I have read Rich Dad Poor Dad,

Financial options is not the only thing in life.

I may be richer then my friend who is a biotech major, but I will never have the knowledge he does. In one way he is enslaved to working somewhere where he wants to work I guess.

But I am enslaved because I do not have his knowledge if you really want to get technical.

There is nothing wrong with "working for the man" Better products get made when people work for each other.

Just because my friend works for someone doesn't mean he is a sheep, or a slave to the person he works for. The only problem I had with rich dad poor dad (great book) was that it made everyone else look like they were struggling. I know many people who work for the man that are doing just fine in life.

[Sheldon Slononazinski]

1. People who think there are two types of internet marketers

2. People who do not.

For a hilarious read on Kiyosaki check out John T Reed's guru rating for him.

[redicelander]

Hmmm, boring. I think I'll get to work rather than worry about everyone's opinions of the different types of internet marketers.

[thunderbird]

I almost dozed off writing my boring replies here, never mind reading them.

[Colin Theriot]

Originally Posted by Matt M

Where do you get your "facts" from? What studies can you provide?

I would like to read this in it's original form.

When you say "caveman days" what period exactly?

Really interested in seeing the studies that support this and how they came to that conclusion.

Matt

p.s. read Big Mike's thread

Bet You Feel Pretty Stupid Now For Following That Guy’s Advice, Huh?

Hi Matt,

What am I a journalist? I'm not writing a research paper here, and I don't think I'm under oath. I don't think I ever claimed I was stating anything factual, did I?

IMPORTANT NOTE: I only ever claim to be a copywriter. Any legal, psychological, biological, or pharmacological advice I may give is entirely the responsibility of your own self, not mine.

I'm mostly just talking out of my own ass. I even said right in there that 99% of everything was crap. Did you think I was excluding myself, lol? But it IS a useful abstraction, and it IS what I actually believe.

I think I snagged those percentages from the Wu-Tang Manual by the RZA. I sincerely doubt that he did any sort of scientific research. It's more of a spiritual thing,and his point was that you should strive to be in the 5% that wants to elevate the human condition by waking up the ones who are asleep.

It just so happened to resonate with me because of the way I think about persuasion. My whole philosophy about marketing and what it is that I do for a living is based on all kinds of abstractions like this. For example, I know that the whole leftbrain/rightbrain, logical brain/emotional brain thing is not actually good biology, or even good psychology.

But it's a helpful abstraction that aids me in constructing effective, persuasive messaging. So whether it's factual or not is really irrelevant to me, since I was responding to a post which was fundamentally an abstraction in and of itself.

(There are only two kinds of people, those that think there are only two kinds of people, and those that know better.)

As long as we're looking for hard facts, you'll also note that when I said I agreed with the OP 110%, that's also not mathematically possible. I don't have any scientific studies to back that up, but I'll check with my mom. I bet she has some old failed math tests of mine somewhere. That should explain everything.

P.S. All of this is intended in fun, by the way.

P.P.S. I like that thread of Big Mike's also. It's good. Am I missing some kind of connection?

[Matt Maiden]

Hey Colin,

I just re-read my post and it sounded kind of aggressive. Not my intention.

Guess I was still thinking about Big Mike's thread and this section

"When someone starts out giving advice by saying, “Studies show…” or “Statistically…”, and don’t provide a citation or reference to where they obtained the information,..."

thought it would be nice if people could give the source of where they find info.

I thought what you wrote was very interesting and I really wanted to read up on it

Like I said, I am sorry my post "sounded" the way it did.

Yes you are an excellent copywriter and would love to hire you one of these days.

Matt

[breakdance]

Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye

I was reading a book on inventing things recently and the author
cited a scientist who was considered at the top of his game
in research and new ideas.

The scientist said the difference between people like himself
and everybody else was he had the capacity to focus intently
on one single problem for 15 minutes.

Most people cannot focus (think) with a singleminded focus
for more than 30 seconds, let alone 15 minutes.

Mr. Woirhaye, can you tell me the *name/author* of this book that you made mention of, as I certainly want to buy it in the near future thanks to you, LOL...?!

[genietoast]

I think it goes back to transparency, keeping things simple and most of all experience. Many of us started off with dollar signs in our eyes, and over time we realized what works and doesn't work.

I'm just going to go with honest content. If I like a product, I'll endorse it. People will either buy it, or they won't.

[Colin Theriot]

Originally Posted by Matt M

Hey Colin,

I just re-read my post and it sounded kind of aggressive. Not my intention.

Guess I was still thinking about Big Mike's thread and this section

"When someone starts out giving advice by saying, “Studies show…” or “Statistically…”, and don’t provide a citation or reference to where they obtained the information,..."

thought it would be nice if people could give the source of where they find info.

I thought what you wrote was very interesting and I really wanted to read up on it

Like I said, I am sorry my post "sounded" the way it did.

Yes you are an excellent copywriter and would love to hire you one of these days.

Matt

No hard feelings, Matt. Thanks for clearing it up, and for the compliment! I'm okay I guess.

As I mentioned, I think I picked up the percentage thing via the RZA, who incorporated it into the whole Wu-Tang Clan hip-hop lifestyle and philosophy. He's a fascinating personality, by the way. Hugely successful artist and businessman, and self-made entirely on his own terms.

The book is called the Wu-Tang Manual. It's one of many on my whole long list of "good marketing books that are not actually about marketing". I probably only really took the %s and motivations from him. All the evolutionary and epistemological stuff is my own addition.

If I had to guess, I'd say that's from David Deutsch and Douglas Hoffstaeder. And probably a lot of Blair Warren. I was just re-reading his "Forbidden Keys to Persuasion" this week and was amazed at how many of his ideas I had totally adopted as my own and grafted all kinds of other stuff around.

Note: There's some religious and historical stuff involved with that 5% thing, but I'm not religious, I just co-opted it because I thought it made good sense when applied to the marketing world. Also, the Wu-Tang clan are pretty hardcore in their lyrics if that kind of thing bugs you. Also, also, that Blair Warren book has some pretty nutty stuff about cults and whatnot that might bug some people.

I cite my sources as best I can when I have them, but most of the time, I just make stuff up. It's way easier.

[Daniel E Taylor]

IM Marketer #3:

Always COMMENTATING on marketing and on what other internet marketers
are doing with THEIR businesses instead of focusing on building their
own business and marketing it in a way they see fit.

[Matt Maiden]

Originally Posted by Colin Theriot

If I had to guess, I'd say that's from David Deutsch and Douglas Hoffstaeder. And probably a lot of Blair Warren.

I forgot about a couple of those guys. I'm going to look for more stuff from them and read the Wu-Tang Manual

Yes there is a big shift in how we relate to one another now as opposed to the days before the Intent and Web 2.0 or Social Media.

I really can't get into to Seth Godin's style because there is just something about his ego that get's in the way so I have been reading more stuff from Chris Brogan.

Thanks

Matt

[Loren Woirhaye]

Originally Posted by breakdance

Mr. Woirhaye, can you tell me the *name/author* of this book that you made mention of, as I certainly want to buy it in the near future thanks to you, LOL...?!

Sure,

"How To License Your Million Dollar Idea" by Harvey Reese

[seanyd]

trying to get off this fence but still stuck here , but at least i`m making somebody money

[thunderbird]

My wife read my comments here and said, "There is MBA, but for this I'll reward you with a BSA."

(A stands for "artist")