Have You Tried Giving Away a "FREE CD" Instead Of The Normal Sales Letter Like Russell Brunson??

[magentawave]

Its been a few months since he started doing this but has anyone tested Russell Brunsons method of giving away a free CD? You don't need to spill the beans on your niche (unless you want to), but how well is that technique working for you?

In case you don't know about this technique, it goes like this...

1) You have a short video on your optin page explaining the incredible secret about shaving a monkey (or whatever) that you will reveal to them when they opt in.

2) Visitor opts in and is sent to a sales page with a two minute video revealing one of the best ways to shave a monkey. After that, they are told how you will mail them "a free cd that explains ten more amazing ways to shave a monkey." A sales letter with bullet points, etc. follows with "Get Your FREE CD" order buttons.

3) Visitor clicks on the order button and goes to an order page where they have to pay $4.95 (or whatever) shipping and handling to get their "free cd" mailed to them.

4) You mail them the "free cd" with the "10 best ways to shave a monkey" and of course you mention your incredible Monkey Shaving Course, etc.

5) Meanwhile you email them your newsletter too.

Russell Brunson claims this is highly effective because you don't try to sell them something except for the "free cd." He says people are totally cool and used to having to fork over a few bucks shipping and handling for the "free cd" because companies like Time and Sports Illustrated have been doing this successfully for years.

Are you using this? How does this compare with the sales technique you were previously using?

Thanks
Steve

[David Wolfman]

I'm familiar with Russell's theories, but have never done it so far.

The results from this method come from psychology of persuasion, and one particular technique called "foot in the door". You offer free CD/DVD but they pay for shipping so they need to pull the wallet out and since they have it in their hands and paid the s&h charges, they're more likely to buy something if you present your offer right away.

The other side of "foot in the door" works this way:
1-free info - hooks the customers,
2-free CD - hooks them more plus, they committed to pay shipping so subconsciously they justify their own choice as a proper one and are more likely to commit again; in their mind they did not pay you but only covered shipping charges they don't think they bought the product but if fact they just covered all sellers product charges as well.
3-main product offer - committed customer had decided to trust you ad will pay again and again - you 've got your foot in their door.

This method working together with simple video (sign up for free to find out more) opt-in page works miracles if you sell the right type of content.

It is an amazing presell tactic but be prepared to give lots of free but valuable stuff to build the trust.

Try it!

[John Cabral]

I think its a great system for someone who is already established or has a great partnership but for newbies I would not use it as it can end up costing you more than you expect as you have to pay for CD, CD duplication system, packaging and shipping and most times its a loss so you better make sure you have a great system in place to upsell etc.

I see this being done a lot these days or off shoots of the system.

[Colin Theriot]

Originally Posted by John Cabral

I think its a great system for someone who is already established or has a great partnership but for newbies I would not use it as it can end up costing you more than you expect as you have to pay for CD, CD duplication system, packaging and shipping and most times its a loss so you better make sure you have a great system in place to upsell etc.

I see this being done a lot these days or off shoots of the system.

Clearly you have not heard of sites like Kunaki -- CD/DVD manufacturing and publishing service that will duplicate, print, and package your CD or DVD and ship it blind for you for $1.00, which you can mark up to whatever you like.

That's not the shortcoming newbies face with this method. It's in having the ability to create and produce content that warrants this degree of slick treatment.

If you are an information marketer or a trainer - anyone who has informational products already or can quickly create them - Russel's method is a great way to start thinking about how to produce your products and set up systems for marketing them.

If you're a beginner and don't even have an idea for a product yet, it's not going to do anything for you. You'd have a lot more foundational stuff to learn before you needed that particular help anyway.

Hope that answers your question. Basically, it's not really a way to "make money" out of nothing, but it's a great way to take some salable content and arrange it in a proactively persuasive arrangement. It works precisely the way the above poster said.

[MichaelHiles]

It's an old concept that is time tested and proven. The only thing Russell did was affix a term limit to the information "course" run... hence "microcontinuity".

And yes, it's a very workable model, even for beginners who drive one visitor to their website at a time.

[John Cabral]

Originally Posted by Colin Theriot

Clearly you have not heard of sites like Kunaki -- CD/DVD manufacturing and publishing service that will duplicate, print, and package your CD or DVD and ship it blind for you for $1.00, which you can mark up to whatever you like.

Thanks for that info and you are right I did not know about that service. If they can do all that for $1 which is one hell of a bargain then yes its very doable and you can make a few bucks that way.

One question though is how in gods name can they do that for one buck? You have the CD/DVD cost which I am sure they buy by the thousands, duplication is a one time cost since they already have the duplication machines but you still have shippingand packaging. Seems there is not any profit there unless they charge some other fees....

[John Cabral]

Ok I checked out their site and it seems that it will cost you $5 to ship a CD in a jewel case. Still not bad at all. So if you charge anything above the $5 you make a tiny profit.

So say you sell 1000 people request your CD and you charge say $6.95 you make a tiny profit of $1950 not bad at all.

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by John Cabral

Ok I checked out their site and it seems that it will cost you $5 to ship a CD in a jewel case. Still not bad at all. So if you charge anything above the $5 you make a tiny profit.

So say you sell 1000 people request your CD and you charge say $6.95 you make a tiny profit of $1950 not bad at all.

Don't forget your CC processing fee %.

[magentawave]

Originally Posted by John Cabral

Ok I checked out their site and it seems that it will cost you $5 to ship a CD in a jewel case. Still not bad at all. So if you charge anything above the $5 you make a tiny profit.

So say you sell 1000 people request your CD and you charge say $6.95 you make a tiny profit of $1950 not bad at all.

Yeah thats not bad if you set them up from start to finish to be your fulfillment company...and thats not factoring in the profits you'll make from your actual product.

Anyone else want to give their two cents? :-)

Steve

[John Cabral]

Originally Posted by magentawave

Yeah thats not bad if you set them up from start to finish to be your fulfillment company...and thats not factoring in the profits you'll make from your actual product.

Anyone else want to give their two cents? :-)

Steve

I have an idea that requires a DVD and I was wondering how the heck I could do it on my own it the idea too off but now I know of a great service. My idea is not for a free DVD but the information would require a DVD to be mailed so with these guys I can charge for the DVD and make a little bit on the S/H. Humm better get started on it.

[John Cabral]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

Don't forget your CC processing fee %.

Man you had to go and spoil my idea LOL Ok so I make $999 lol

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by John Cabral

Man you had to go and spoil my idea LOL Ok so I make $999 lol

I was talking about the free + shipping giveaway (Brunson microcontinuity). If you just charge what Kunaki or whomever your fulfillment house might be, then you're losing money after accounting.

If you're selling it for $999 on the front in then fughedaboutit.

[John Cabral]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

I was talking about the free + shipping giveaway (Brunson microcontinuity). If you just charge what Kunaki or whomever your fulfillment house might be, then you're losing money after accounting.

If you're selling it for $999 on the front in then fughedaboutit.

Thats why you need to have something established that works and is going to bring you money then you don't have to sweat losing a bit with the offer.

What I have in mind is not really a free DVD and only pay S/H its pay for DVD plus S/H.

I just do the charge for DVD and offer free S/H. :-)

[Loren Woirhaye]

In addition to the foot in the door thing where the customer
is saying "yeah, I like you and what you have to say," there's
an added filter that screens out the real freeloaders - so
you have people who have a problem and a thirst for the
knowing how to fix it - and they show when they pay for
shipping that they are willing and able to put their money
where their mouth is.

This is big - because in direct response the real power is
in your "house list" of previous buyers. Often in competitive
markets you wouldn't expect to make money off the first
sale, really. That's to say there's often no net-profit on
the first sale of acne cream, for example. The profit starts
to happen a few months down the line.

The companies that can absorb losing money on a new
customer for several months, like Boardroom, Guthy-Renker,
Rodale books and so forth - the giants - they win on
the lifetime value of the customer. They have such
huge operations and are able to lose so much money to
win long-term customers that smaller players are blocked
from entering the market.

Now, that isn't to say you cannot use the same principles
without actually losing money - before the internet it
was pretty hard to pull it off unless you had an MLM
plan or something like that in place to advertise your
products at their own expense.

Now you have affiliates - so while "selling" your CD
at free+shipping might be a loss leader for you IF you
have to buy clicks to get the traffic yourself, with affiliates
generating the clicks you get, in effect, free advertising
and even if your back-end offer isn't a winner for you,
you can break-even on the costs of testing things.

That's something not even the direct mail and infomercial
giants can do. They lose money on probably 6 out of 7
offers they test (their media costs are huge) but they
make it all back on the winning offers.

[Colin Theriot]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

I was talking about the free + shipping giveaway (Brunson microcontinuity). If you just charge what Kunaki or whomever your fulfillment house might be, then you're losing money after accounting.

If you're selling it for $999 on the front in then fughedaboutit.

You need to take into account the cost of getting PPC leads, and the conversion rate of the back-end product. If I recall right ( I saw him at StomperNet's last Live event) Russell's deal is that you tweak the S&H charge to cover both the manufacturing/shipping costs and your merchant fees.

Seems like you could cover this just by adding a buck or two over what Kunaki charges - if you say straight up that you don't have a warehouse full of these, that you produce them on demand and charge cost to get it in their hands as cheap as possible without losing money yourself, the effect remains the same.

Unless you're pushing over $10, I think you could get away with it if it was a DVD with a decent amount of content.

But once you can establish a conversion rate on your back end product, you know how much more you can either lower that S&H (but you need to charge some small amount for the psychology to work) or spend more on bringing in the traffic.

Then I would say to develop the next big product to offer the back-end a second time. Once you have some conversion info on that, you sacrifice all the profit on the first backend product and split it with affiliates.

Then the customer gets something for free, the affiliate gets paid enough on backend number 1 so he thinks it's worthwhile to promote your free offer. You get paid 100% profit on backend product #2, and you have a massive list to cross promote affiliate products to.

The whole point is to make no money at all on the first free+shipping offer. In fact, you really want a backend that's successful enough that you can afford to LOSE money promoting it, because that's how you become able to outbid everyone on AdWords and can out-message all the competition.

[magentawave]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

I was talking about the free + shipping giveaway (Brunson microcontinuity). If you just charge what Kunaki or whomever your fulfillment house might be, then you're losing money after accounting.

If you're selling it for $999 on the front in then fughedaboutit.

But you would just add that into the "shipping and handling" fee so you're totally covered.

Steve

Originally Posted by John Cabral

Thats why you need to have something established that works and is going to bring you money then you don't have to sweat losing a bit with the offer.

What I have in mind is not really a free DVD and only pay S/H its pay for DVD plus S/H.

I just do the charge for DVD and offer free S/H. :-)

But the magic of Russell Brunsons technique ("free" pay for s & h) is that you don't sell them in an overt way because people "feel like" they are getting something for free since they have been conditioned for this due to years of it being in the offline world. So if the dvd you're selling is costly then you should use the "free cd" method to pre-sell your expensive dvd. Get it? If you sell your dvd upfront then you're back to the "normal" way of marketing.

Steve

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by Colin Theriot

You need to take into account the cost of getting PPC leads, and the conversion rate of the back-end product. If I recall right ( I saw him at StomperNet's last Live event) Russell's deal is that you tweak the S&H charge to cover both the manufacturing/shipping costs and your merchant fees.

Seems like you could cover this just by adding a buck or two over what Kunaki charges - if you say straight up that you don't have a warehouse full of these, that you produce them on demand and charge cost to get it in their hands as cheap as possible without losing money yourself, the effect remains the same.

Unless you're pushing over $10, I think you could get away with it if it was a DVD with a decent amount of content.

But once you can establish a conversion rate on your back end product, you know how much more you can either lower that S&H (but you need to charge some small amount for the psychology to work) or spend more on bringing in the traffic.

Then I would say to develop the next big product to offer the back-end a second time. Once you have some conversion info on that, you sacrifice all the profit on the first backend product and split it with affiliates.

Then the customer gets something for free, the affiliate gets paid enough on backend number 1 so he thinks it's worthwhile to promote your free offer. You get paid 100% profit on backend product #2, and you have a massive list to cross promote affiliate products to.

The whole point is to make no money at all on the first free+shipping offer. In fact, you really want a backend that's successful enough that you can afford to LOSE money promoting it, because that's how you become able to outbid everyone on AdWords and can out-message all the competition.

I agree.

However, I don't think too many people are going to cover their PPC costs on the S&H charge. Even with fantastic conversion ratios of impressions to clicks and clicks to opt-ins.

[BrainDance]

I am doing my first design project for a "russell bronson' theory, haven't heard of it before, so for me it is unique. using Kunaki, its really automated as well
never hurts to try!
Linda

[Colin Theriot]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

I agree.

However, I don't think too many people are going to cover their PPC costs on the S&H charge. Even with fantastic conversion ratios of impressions to clicks and clicks to opt-ins.

I agree, too. I don't think I said that the S&H would cover the PPC. I just said that you needed to take it into consideration, and then didn't bring it up again until I pointed out that if your back-end is robust enough, you can spend more on PPC than everyone else and actually lose money on the free product because you know by then that you can make it up on the back end.

I guess I could have put that together better if that's the way it read. You're going to be out of pocket on the PPC regardless, which will cause a cash flow issue that most newbies might not be able to deal with.

Yet another reason that it's really only going to benefit people who are already set up to sell and promote info products.

I don't recall exactly what Russel's recommendation was if there was one, but if I were planning this out for someone to try, I'd use PPC to do some initial testing to get some info to draw affiliates with. Then I'd keep them off PPC until you were making enough to just go in and dominate right from the jump.

Another philosophy says you should just stay out of the PPC altogether because it's where your best potential affiliates are going to be trying to earn for you. I'd say maybe tweak campaigns to discover keywords that earn, and then give them to your affiliates to play with while you spend your time on SEO to rank for those same keywords.

Meh, I ended up rambling a little, but I hope I better clarified my position on how PPC fits into this kind of thing. (Or at least my opinion on same.)

[Josh Anderson]

I'm going to throw out a great opportunity for some talented warriors who read this...

This concept WILL make some warrior a lot of money.

Any warrior with talent who likes to create prl or resale rights offers could whip up some pretty nice WSO offers off this concept...

Create PLR or resale rights "micro c" funnels.

1. Create a DVD with content on some in demand niche how to subject or another... could be in IM or other good targeted niches but they would have to be niches warriors want to be in.

2. Create a squeeze page offering instant access to a video giving away some cool info on the subject.

3. Create the video that is given away on the next page and that leads into the free plus shipping offer and write or get written copy for that offer.

4. Optional - Create additional content that can be used as membership content on the back end for an automated "micro continuity" style site.

...

Now here are a few ideas how to make money with it right here in the WF:

1. Offer resale rights to what I listed above.

2. Offer PLR rights to what I listed above.

3. Offer resale or plr rights and offer to set up the entire automated funnel for them on their own website using a Nanacast account to automate every part of the funnel including the print and ship of the dvd and the forced or optional continuity of the micro continuity offer....

Offer the setup as an upsell... and you might even offer them additional resale rights and plr to be used as upsells for their funnel as an upsell.

4. Or run a wso offer telling them you will give them everything for free if they sign up for a nanacast account with your affiliate link.

I would be willing to partner with and assist the right person who would be interested in the nanacast aspect....

However, I'd also be an interested buyer for this type of PLR as well because I personally would set up sales funnels offering it to our publishers who want business in a box setups.

Copying and pasting a complete funnel like that into our system would only take a few minutes.

At any rate... even if you did not do anything along the realms of setting up the actual funnel and all you did was create the resale or plr packages there is money to be made with WSO offers like that.

I'd think there is at least a half dozen warriors who might jump on an idea like that ;-)

[magentawave]

Has anyone made a comparison test between this pay for shipping and handling "free cd" offer and Frank Kerns Mass Control where you never mention your product while giving away a ton of free content?

Steve

[John Cabral]

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

I'm going to throw out a great opportunity for some talented warriors who read this...

This concept WILL make some warrior a lot of money.

Any warrior with talent who likes to create prl or resale rights offers could whip up some pretty nice WSO offers off this concept...

Create PLR or resale rights "micro c" funnels.

1. Create a DVD with content on some in demand niche how to subject or another... could be in IM or other good targeted niches but they would have to be niches warriors want to be in.

2. Create a squeeze page offering instant access to a video giving away some cool info on the subject.

3. Create the video that is given away on the next page and that leads into the free plus shipping offer and write or get written copy for that offer.

4. Optional - Create additional content that can be used as membership content on the back end for an automated "micro continuity" style site.

...

Now here are a few ideas how to make money with it right here in the WF:

1. Offer resale rights to what I listed above.

2. Offer PLR rights to what I listed above.

3. Offer resale or plr rights and offer to set up the entire automated funnel for them on their own website using a Nanacast account to automate every part of the funnel including the print and ship of the dvd and the forced or optional continuity of the micro continuity offer....

Offer the setup as an upsell... and you might even offer them additional resale rights and plr to be used as upsells for their funnel as an upsell.

4. Or run a wso offer telling them you will give them everything for free if they sign up for a nanacast account with your affiliate link.

I would be willing to partner with and assist the right person who would be interested in the nanacast aspect....

However, I'd also be an interested buyer for this type of PLR as well because I personally would set up sales funnels offering it to our publishers who want business in a box setups.

Copying and pasting a complete funnel like that into our system would only take a few minutes.

At any rate... even if you did not do anything along the realms of setting up the actual funnel and all you did was create the resale or plr packages there is money to be made with WSO offers like that.

I'd think there is at least a half dozen warriors who might jump on an idea like that ;-)

Hey Josh great idea/info now if I could just figure out how to put it all together I would be fine... :-(

[jamawebinc]

I think there are some important points being missed about this business model.

You are not trying to make money with the free plus s/h cd-rom.

The point is to separate your list into prospects and customers as quickly as possible.

And you do this by giving them something for free, but you have them pay shipping/production/processing etc.

The point of this is so they have to use their credit card. This identifies them as customers, not freebie seekers.

Then...

There is the microcontinuity program that is always connected to the free cd-rom offer. He does not allow someone to opt-out of this. If you take the free cd you must take the free trial of the coaching program.

So, the percentage of people who stick (and I am sure he has the math on each website of his that uses this model) is where the guaranteed money and the beginnings of profit come from. And they keep coming month after month.

Also...

He uses many upsells and downsells to get people to make large purchases while they have their credit card out. This is another avenue for profits.

And then he makes them other offers when the continuity program is over or if they cancelled before they completed the program and can market to them aggressively because they have identified themselves as buyers.

To focus on if he makes money off the free-cd is focusing on the wrong thing completely. It is not meant to be a money maker at all.

[magentawave]

My comments in bold blue - and I'm not yelling.

Originally Posted by jamawebinc

I think there are some important points being missed about this business model.

You are not trying to make money with the free plus s/h cd-rom.

The point is to separate your list into prospects and customers as quickly as possible.

RIGHT. IF A PROSPECT IS WILLING TO WHIP OUT THEIR CARD THEN THAT IMMEDIATELY MAKES THEM A VERY GOOD PROSPECT.

And you do this by giving them something for free, but you have them pay shipping/production/processing etc.

The point of this is so they have to use their credit card. This identifies them as customers, not freebie seekers.

YES EXACTLY.

Then...

There is the microcontinuity program that is always connected to the free cd-rom offer. He does not allow someone to opt-out of this. If you take the free cd you must take the free trial of the coaching program.

IS THAT WHAT THEY CALL "FORCED CONTINUITY"?

So, the percentage of people who stick (and I am sure he has the math on each website of his that uses this model) is where the guaranteed money and the beginnings of profit come from. And they keep coming month after month.

Also...

He uses many upsells and downsells to get people to make large purchases while they have their credit card out. This is another avenue for profits.

IF YOU HAVE EVER ORDERED ANYTHING FROM GODADDY THEN YOU WILL SEE THE NUMEROUS OPPORTUNITIES THEY PRESENT TO YOU FOR UPSELLS...AND IF YOU DON'T BITE ON THE UPSELLS THEN THEY SHOW YOU THEIR DOWNSELLS.

And then he makes them other offers when the continuity program is over or if they cancelled before they completed the program and can market to them aggressively because they have identified themselves as buyers.

To focus on if he makes money off the free-cd is focusing on the wrong thing completely. It is not meant to be a money maker at all.

RIGHT, THE "FREE CD" IS MEANT TO BE A LOSS LEADER ALTHOUGH IT IS MOSTLY PAID FOR WITH THE S&H.

RUSSELL SAID HE WAS GOING TO ADAPT MOST OF HIS SITES TO THIS MODEL BECAUSE HE SAID IT IS SO EASY TO GET THEM TO PAY WITH VERY LITTLE RESISTANCE.

ARE YOU USING THIS YOURSELF?

Steve

[Josh Anderson]

Originally Posted by magentawave

RIGHT, THE "FREE CD" IS MEANT TO BE A LOSS LEADER ALTHOUGH IT IS MOSTLY PAID FOR WITH THE S&H.

Many of our clients use our platform to automate micro continuity models following Russell's strategy.

We also run a CPA network on our platform and Chris Carpenter is running a GC free plus shipping offer on it. Obviously the CPA model is a "loss leader" type model but he also reduced the free plus shipping price to under $2 which does not even cover the cost of print and ship.

I will not reveal what they are paying per lead but...

The loss leader is quite expensive for them.

For those doing this model with organic traffic or their own advertising they do not have to go to that extreeme...

Chris is using our integration with Vervante to automate the entire process from capture, print ship and delivery, upsell funnel, and forced/optional continuity etc.

However... we also integrate with Disk.com and Kunaki for print and ship automation....

Recently Kunaki announced they are reducing their duplication to $1 from $1.75

That means that the total cost of a full color label dvd in dvd case with full color cover slip and plastic wrap shipped is only $5!

So pretty much anyone can do a "free plus shipping" offer without much "loss" on their "leader" and keep the perceived "free plus shipping" there at around $5.

Plus with Vervante.com who is another company we integrate with you get true on demand with no up front costs and net 30 billing which means you can do any volume you want and start up with no up front cost on the physical.

Kunaki requires an account load and unfortunately does not automate the rebill but is still a great option for single disk type stuff because of the very low cost for on demand and ship and Disk.com whom we are also integrated with is better suited for special packages and large volume stock. Disk requires up front load and monthly fees so Vervante and Kunaki are much better choices for most everyone.

[rockstarinlife]

I am really new to IM. I just launched my first site and it was a micro c site with free +shipping, so I dont have anything to compare it to. my email list is about 476, but I didnt have any emails regularly sent out to them. Here are the numbers I got so far.

sent out the offer to 476 of my subscribers

131 opened the offer

56 went to the page and opted in to see the free video (p2)

3 people ordered the free cd at 7.97-8.97 (I changed it)

1 member stayed on the $37 weekly video program after the 14 days and ordered $1,500 worth of private coaching with me.

I have no idea what good numbers are etc. And I am still learning. I set up my account with nanacast and used kunaki. The CD cost about 5.50 to ship and about .50 in paypal fees.

[TyBrown]

Originally Posted by John Cabral

I think its a great system for someone who is already established or has a great partnership but for newbies I would not use it as it can end up costing you more than you expect as you have to pay for CD, CD duplication system, packaging and shipping and most times its a loss so you better make sure you have a great system in place to upsell etc.

I see this being done a lot these days or off shoots of the system.

I'm running several sites like this and it really isn't much at all. I get printing, packaging, and shipping for about $2.25 per unit and I'm charging $4.95 for shipping.

I have the fulfillment company print up 50 in advance so there is a bit of an investment but not much. When the 50 run out I do 50 more so I'm never dropping too much into it.

Perfect system for noobies.

[magentawave]

Originally Posted by rockstarinlife

I am really new to IM. I just launched my first site and it was a micro c site with free +shipping, so I dont have anything to compare it to. my email list is about 476, but I didnt have any emails regularly sent out to them. Here are the numbers I got so far.

sent out the offer to 476 of my subscribers

131 opened the offer

56 went to the page and opted in to see the free video (p2)

3 people ordered the free cd at 7.97-8.97 (I changed it)

1 member stayed on the $37 weekly video program after the 14 days and ordered $1,500 worth of private coaching with me.

I have no idea what good numbers are etc. And I am still learning. I set up my account with nanacast and used kunaki. The CD cost about 5.50 to ship and about .50 in paypal fees.

I would say that those numbers of yours are pretty awesome when you consider the profit you made on the one member alone plus what you will make in the future.

Originally Posted by TyBrown

I'm running several sites like this and it really isn't much at all. I get printing, packaging, and shipping for about $2.25 per unit and I'm charging $4.95 for shipping.

I have the fulfillment company print up 50 in advance so there is a bit of an investment but not much. When the 50 run out I do 50 more so I'm never dropping too much into it.

Perfect system for noobies.

$2.25 is a great deal for all that. Who is your fulflllment company?

Steve

[KDH]

My friend just had a "pretty big launch" with the micro-c format.

He said that it's DEFINITELY a lot of work on the support/customer service end.

He mentioned the re-bill in the sales letter, order form and video but lot of people don't read the sales letter or pay attention/understand/remember the video etc and are shocked and angry they got billed.

Be VERY clear that you'll be billing them.

I asked him if it's the "set it and forget it" internet marketer's dream and he said it's as far from set it and forget it as can be. He's doing so much support that it's taking away from him non micro-c internet business.

But like I said he did do a big launch, doesn't have a staff and was kind of vague in explaining the automatic re-bill.

I plan on testing a mirco-c site but with VERY clear instructions that a re-bill is coming.

To me I'd rather have less conversions and more customers who "get it" than a high conversion rate and a high refund rate etc.

That's just me though. Being vague is probably more profitable even though it's more work.

I just don't really like to work.

[rockstarinlife]

Originally Posted by magentawave

I would say that those numbers of yours are pretty awesome when you consider the profit you made on the one member alone plus what you will make in the future.


Steve

Thanks Steve and now I am just working on giving more CD's away.

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by KDH

My friend just had a "pretty big launch" with the micro-c format.

He said that it's DEFINITELY a lot of work on the support/customer service end.

He mentioned the re-bill in the sales letter, order form and video but lot of people don't read the sales letter or pay attention/understand/remember the video etc and are shocked and angry they got billed.

Be VERY clear that you'll be billing them.

I asked him if it's the "set it and forget it" internet marketer's dream and he said it's as far from set it and forget it as can be. He's doing so much support that it's taking away from him non micro-c internet business.

But like I said he did do a big launch, doesn't have a staff and was kind of vague in explaining the automatic re-bill.

I plan on testing a mirco-c site but with VERY clear instructions that a re-bill is coming.

To me I'd rather have less conversions and more customers who "get it" than a high conversion rate and a high refund rate etc.

That's just me though. Being vague is probably more profitable even though it's more work.

I just don't really like to work.

I am extremely open about the trial continuity programs.

You have to be or you're just building yourself into a box.

[marciayudkin]

One point no one has mentioned in this thread is that with this kind of an offer you need to be very careful where your leads are coming from. Marketers call it a self-liquidating offer because the cost of fulfilling the offer is roughly (VERY roughly) equal to what the customer pays.

In 1992, I had a self-liquidating offer that ran in a print publication with more than 1 million circulation. According to the publication, I got a much greater response to that offer than was usual for that publication. This was good, and the offer made me money from my followup offers. There was a pretty good match between what I was up to and the demographics of the publication.

What happened then, however, is that the offer got picked up in secondary publications that ran it without my permission and sent me highly unqualified traffic. For example, the offer was printed in a book called BEST FREE THINGS IN AMERICA. This was terrible, because anyone who purchased a book by that title (or checked it out of the library) was most definitely not a good prospect for me.

I continued getting requests related to this offer until I moved nine years later.

All this happened prior to the Internet, but the Internet version would be someone saying, "Hey, you can get a great CD from So & So for just the cost of shipping. Order it and then immediately cancel your member by doing XYZ." If that happened on a large scale, So & So would be getting a lot of poor prospects and the economics of the arrangement would deteriorate.

I like this model, too, but it does have its weak points.

Marcia Yudkin

[Kevin AKA Hubcap]

Josh,

I just want to make sure.

Are you saying that a Nanacast customer can sell micro-c plr packages and have his "buyers" use the seller's Nanacast account for fulfillment?

Kevin

Originally Posted by Josh Anderson

I'm going to throw out a great opportunity for some talented warriors who read this...

This concept WILL make some warrior a lot of money.

Any warrior with talent who likes to create prl or resale rights offers could whip up some pretty nice WSO offers off this concept...

Create PLR or resale rights "micro c" funnels.

1. Create a DVD with content on some in demand niche how to subject or another... could be in IM or other good targeted niches but they would have to be niches warriors want to be in.

2. Create a squeeze page offering instant access to a video giving away some cool info on the subject.

3. Create the video that is given away on the next page and that leads into the free plus shipping offer and write or get written copy for that offer.

4. Optional - Create additional content that can be used as membership content on the back end for an automated "micro continuity" style site.

...

Now here are a few ideas how to make money with it right here in the WF:

1. Offer resale rights to what I listed above.

2. Offer PLR rights to what I listed above.

3. Offer resale or plr rights and offer to set up the entire automated funnel for them on their own website using a Nanacast account to automate every part of the funnel including the print and ship of the dvd and the forced or optional continuity of the micro continuity offer....

Offer the setup as an upsell... and you might even offer them additional resale rights and plr to be used as upsells for their funnel as an upsell.

4. Or run a wso offer telling them you will give them everything for free if they sign up for a nanacast account with your affiliate link.

I would be willing to partner with and assist the right person who would be interested in the nanacast aspect....

However, I'd also be an interested buyer for this type of PLR as well because I personally would set up sales funnels offering it to our publishers who want business in a box setups.

Copying and pasting a complete funnel like that into our system would only take a few minutes.

At any rate... even if you did not do anything along the realms of setting up the actual funnel and all you did was create the resale or plr packages there is money to be made with WSO offers like that.

I'd think there is at least a half dozen warriors who might jump on an idea like that ;-)

[ccmusicman]

Hey guys,

Don't forget to think outside the box on this either.

You don't "have" to give away a "free" physical product. It can also be a "free" 1 dollar download to cover your "bandwidth costs" (that's what I say).

So you pitch the download as free, but simply say that the buck is to help cover you bandwidth fee's.

Then, you offer them an upsell/downsell and you can make quite a bit of cash.

Of course, you don't have to have a continuity either. I've actually found with a few niche's that I get bigger profits from a non-continuity because more people buy the back end.

Test test test!

[BlueSquares]

I'll happily give away a CD for $6.95 in order to capture a qualified "buyer", email, physical address and phone number. Even without the micro-continuity, you have several channels to pitch offers.

[Josh Anderson]

Originally Posted by Kevin AKA Hubcap

Josh,

I just want to make sure.

Are you saying that a Nanacast customer can sell micro-c plr packages and have his "buyers" use the seller's Nanacast account for fulfillment?

Kevin

No, I was suggesting that it would be a good business model for a person to create and sell ready made "micro c" plr and offer plr for sale to warriors as a wso.

As a back end opportunity for the PLR seller they could also offer to help set up the funnel on our service since it makes it easy and that would add an additional residual affiliate commission opportunity for them since the plr buyer would need their own account to sell, deliver, and manage their micro c funnels.

[magentawave]

Originally Posted by ccmusicman

Hey guys,

Of course, you don't have to have a continuity either. I've actually found with a few niche's that I get bigger profits from a non-continuity because more people buy the back end.

Test test test!

Yeah definetely. I know Russell used this micro c thing (with c being for continuity/membership) but can anyone see a reason why this wouldn't work for a fairly high end physical product that would cost $500.00 to $1500.00?

Steve

[pro.it.media]

Russel has stated that the free shipping offers double his conversion rate.
He also stated that it works better than the one dollar trial offer.

[magentawave]

Originally Posted by TyBrown

I'm running several sites like this and it really isn't much at all. I get printing, packaging, and shipping for about $2.25 per unit and I'm charging $4.95 for shipping.

I have the fulfillment company print up 50 in advance so there is a bit of an investment but not much. When the 50 run out I do 50 more so I'm never dropping too much into it.

Perfect system for noobies.

$2.25 is a killer deal. Can you please tell us who your fulfillment company is?

Steve

[magentawave]

Originally Posted by Will Dog

As mentioned in a previous post of mine, I highly recommend Vervante for a project like this. The reason being is that there prices are very competitive but more importantly, you can include a black/white printed letter with your dvd or cd for only 5 cents extra per page. So even if your prospects don't buy the initial back-end offer you have another chance to try and sell them something when they receive their free cd/dvd.

And believe me when I say that the physical follow up offers work very well!

Would you mind telling us without revealing your niche if you don't want to how you have used this? Prices? Upsells? Downsells, etc?

Steve

[magentawave]

This is weird. I got email notification that Will Dog replied to the question I asked above and now see that his reply isn't here...and it was good stuff too. Then I tried doing a 'Find Posts by User' search and nothing comes up for his username. Anyone know what happened or how I can locate this guy? I see all his posts here are gone too. Was the guy abducted by aliens?

Steve

[rockstarinlife]

Originally Posted by magentawave

This is weird. I got email notification that Will Dog replied to the question I asked above and now see that his reply isn't here...and it was good stuff too. Then I tried doing a 'Find Posts by User' search and nothing comes up for his username. Anyone know what happened or how I can locate this guy? I see all his posts here are gone too. Was the guy abducted by aliens?

Steve

Weird? I have been watching this thread daily and I never saw a Will Dog on here? Are you sure you are on the right forum? Have you been taking medication? lol... JK....Sorry I couldn't resist. That is weird.

I contacted Vervante and here is what they quoted me for my paperback books and cd's:

Thank you for your email and for your interest in our services. We would love to produce and ship you orders for you.

We have a flat fee for books 6x9 or smaller, 200 pages or less.

110 pages printed black & white 8.5x5.5
Perfect bound with a full color printed cover
$6.58

155 pages printed black & white 8.5x5.5
Perfect bound with a full color printed cover
$6.58

CD with full color printing on the face of the disc
Packaged in a paper envelope
$2.50

The prices quoted include production, packaging and fulfillment. The prices quoted do not include shipping. We ship the majority of shipments via USPS, 1st Class for items less than one pound, Priority Mail for over one pound and International Airmail. We charge actual postage based on weight and ship to zip/postal code. We do not have a flat shipping fee and we do not mark up the postage.

Also I know they integrate with 1shopping cart and Nanacast which is pretty cool.

[Voasi]

I launched a Micro-C website in the beginning of Oct in a non-IM niche that I knew nothing about...just partnered with a buddy who does it for a living. First week spent about $1500 in PPC costs and sold 90 orders of our "Free CD". I currently spend about $100-$200 a day now to get 7-12 orders a day, which rolls into a dual continuity at $37 a month for 4 months and $9.95 a month until the cancel (value trojan).

I use:

- 1shopping Cart
- Kunaki for Fulfillment
- Optimize Your Cart for Upsells

I do nothing except handle new advertising channels and customer support, which is a pretty sweet gig.

Problems:

- People are unaware of the continuity program. That's probably the biggest one. I'm pretty clear on the sales page..no small text and very upfront with costs, pricing, timeframe, but you need to be extra clear or you'll be getting a lot of support Q/A's. As we all know, most people don't read an entire sales page, especially outside of the IM niche. You need to put it on the actual checkout page too and have it STAND OUT or you'll be dealing with a lot of customer support. Your call on that. Classic biggie quote for this "Mo' Money...Mo' Problems".

- Merchant Account/Processor: If you have a lot of angry people who start doing chargebacks because of the above, your processor can potentially hold your money till the chargeback to sale ratio is below what they tolerate. If you're running your Micro-C "to the wall" then I'd recommend having a few merchant accounts ready to go and rotate them as orders come through. The last thing you want is to have your Merchant hold funds while you're still spending money on marketing, etc...

There are "high risk" merchant accounts (Google it) who work with the adult, casino and other verticals and this might be an avenue if you want to play that game.

I'm rolling out several Micro-C style programs in the next 6 months as it's a scalable model that a one-man show can easily do (even with outsourcing customer support). Setting up your first one will be kinda costly, but after you have it all setup (programming mostly), rolling out future Micro-c's aren't too costly, besides developing content and advertising.

[magentawave]

Originally Posted by Voasi

I launched a Micro-C website in the beginning of Oct in a non-IM niche that I knew nothing about...just partnered with a buddy who does it for a living. First week spent about $1500 in PPC costs and sold 90 orders of our "Free CD". I currently spend about $100-$200 a day now to get 7-12 orders a day, which rolls into a dual continuity at $37 a month for 4 months and $9.95 a month until the cancel (value trojan).

I use:

- 1shopping Cart
- Kunaki for Fulfillment
- Optimize Your Cart for Upsells

I do nothing except handle new advertising channels and customer support, which is a pretty sweet gig.

Problems:

- People are unaware of the continuity program. That's probably the biggest one. I'm pretty clear on the sales page..no small text and very upfront with costs, pricing, timeframe, but you need to be extra clear or you'll be getting a lot of support Q/A's. As we all know, most people don't read an entire sales page, especially outside of the IM niche. You need to put it on the actual checkout page too and have it STAND OUT or you'll be dealing with a lot of customer support. Your call on that. Classic biggie quote for this "Mo' Money...Mo' Problems".

- Merchant Account/Processor: If you have a lot of angry people who start doing chargebacks because of the above, your processor can potentially hold your money till the chargeback to sale ratio is below what they tolerate. If you're running your Micro-C "to the wall" then I'd recommend having a few merchant accounts ready to go and rotate them as orders come through. The last thing you want is to have your Merchant hold funds while you're still spending money on marketing, etc...

There are "high risk" merchant accounts (Google it) who work with the adult, casino and other verticals and this might be an avenue if you want to play that game.

I'm rolling out several Micro-C style programs in the next 6 months as it's a scalable model that a one-man show can easily do (even with outsourcing customer support). Setting up your first one will be kinda costly, but after you have it all setup (programming mostly), rolling out future Micro-c's aren't too costly, besides developing content and advertising.

That is good stuff dude! Thanks for your input.

I experienced a sneaky forced continuity deal about a year ago from a Warrior. It was a pain in the arse trying to reach the guy to stop it once I figured out I was being charged and most of his "support" links were old email addresses he didn't use and then he wouldn't answer the others. Bottom line: I will never deal with that guy ever again.

================================================== ==

Since I'm assuming the mysto person (Will Dog) was booted off this forum, I'm going to go ahead and paste the Warrior email notification I got that was his post...

Will Dog has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - Have You Tried Giving Away a "FREE CD" Instead Of The Normal Sales Letter Like Russell Brunson?? - in the Main Internet Marketing Discussion Forum forum of WarriorForum - Internet Marketing Forums.

---Quote (Originally by magentawave)---
Would you mind telling us without revealing your niche if you don't want to how you have used this? Prices? Upsells? Downsells, etc?

Steve
---End Quote---
Steve,

On the front-end I offer a free + shipping CD. Once the customers enter their details and complete their payment, I then send them to an upsell offer which is a 3 DVD set and that is priced at $47. If they don't purchase that then I downsell them to a 2 DVD set for $37.

I use a 1-click upsell for this so they don't have to re-enter their payment information - all they need do is click 'add to cart' and they are automatically billed for the second product.

Then with every free + shipping cd I send out, regardless of whether or not they purchased either of the upsells, I include a 4 page letter upselling them to a $197 course. The course is usually $397 however I give them a limited time period of roughly 15 days from when they receive their cd where they can get it at the reduced price. After those 15 days they then have to purchase the course for the full $397 - no exceptions. This creates a great sense of urgency on that offer.
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