Cease and desist/takedown letter?

[TheJuicer]

I've followed XFactor's guide to building a website and try to make money through adsense. I received a takedown letter but the person wants my personal contact information and what not. Can I get in serious trouble? I took down the website today, the same day I received the email. I also need to give them the contact information or 1and1 will give them my information. Since I fulfilled their takedown request, can they really force me to give over my contact information? Help me please!

[askloz]

first off, 1and1 can't give another person your information. 1and1 will just close your account down. That's a breach of the data protection act.

and who asked you to cease and desist? google adsense? I doubt it, cos they will just close your account down without warning.

and why did you get a cease and desist email?

[Andrew Dillon]

Something doesn't add up here, I would do some more investigating before getting too worked up. I am instantly suspicious when someone asks for personal information and careful who I give such information to.

[kindsvater]

There is so little insofar as specifics that no one can give you much advice.

No one knows what you were doing, what the alleged problem is, who sent you the email, what it actually said, etc.

But I don't know how anyone is going to "force" you / 1and1 to fork over private info without first spending good money to file a legal action and to serve a subpoena.

[Andrew Maule]

Interesting stuff. I'm also following that course and have two names with brand names and two without any brand names. The ones WITH brand names Google refuses to index and are on/off again de-indexed and re-indexed, while my others are ranking #1 in Google, brand names seem like a bad idea, unless of course this is just someone trying to scam you by getting your personal information... either way!

[TheJuicer]

I'm guessing that the email is from legal at 1and1 dot com. They sent me an email with a PDF of the copy of mail that they received. It was a cease and desist to take down the website which they are considering copyright infringement. If I do not provide the company that has been copyright infringed with my personal information within 5 days, and then notify 1and1 of my doing so, 1and1 will make my websites public with my personal information. That means that all of my private information that I put for all of my websites will become public and I do not want that. Is there any way that someone can send me an email and make it look like 1and1 sent it? The email and PDF are pretty convincing and it kind of makes me nervous.

Edit: The WHOIS information for my domains will become public after 5 days if I do not provide my information to the copyright infringed party.

[TheJuicer]

Yeah, the PDF seems pretty legit. I googled the address and it's a lawyer asking exactly for the WHOIS information. If I do get hit with a copyright infringement case, is it as bad as I expect? I can't get any jailtime for one website, right? Sorry, I'm tired and a little bit nervous.

[Scott Ames]

I think they are trying to make you nervous on purpose. What do they mean by threatening to make your personal information pubic? That doesn't make sense to me. I think all they will do is take off whois protection so that anyone can learn who you are. Is that bad?
The lawyer probably wants to send you a letter, probably certified, and try to make you shake in your boots. You will probably have to remove any trademarked names, some of them will demand ownership of those names.

[Rich Struck]

Originally Posted by TheJuicer

Yeah, the PDF seems pretty legit. I googled the address and it's a lawyer asking exactly for the WHOIS information. If I do get hit with a copyright infringement case, is it as bad as I expect? I can't get any jailtime for one website, right? Sorry, I'm tired and a little bit nervous.

No, you won't go to jail but you could get sued into oblivion. Without knowig what you did it is hard to speculate.

On the bright side, most of the time these sorts of problems go away once the site is taken down. It just depends on who you pissed off. On the not so bright side, copyright damages can be very severe.

[TheJuicer]

I don't want my information to go public so people don't find out what my websites are.

What I did was rewrite information and it copyright infringed some of the information on their website and they don't like that. I tried getting to the top of Google serps with a search term of over 10,000. My website was on the second page and doing good but I guess they are in to SEO of their own.

If I get sued, there are payment plans for that type of stuff, right? I mean...damnit.

[Johnathan]

Hi,

What website is it, and what is the company sending you a cease and desist notice?

Making your information \'public\' sounds very \'odd\'. You mean posting that information on your websites? If you were doing something wrong, they \'may\' make information available to other people, but posting your personal details on your website sound very very odd. Did your webhost \'1and1.com\' actually e-mail that message to you?

Please post a copy of the e-mail you received (of course, replacing your personal information if you wish).

[askloz]

sorry, but 1and1 can't do that. you can take them to court if they do.

and what did you do? copy someone's content?

I've been with 1and1 for years, and I call tell you, that's complete crap!

and if they do, change your address to something different NOW!

Originally Posted by TheJuicer

I'm guessing that the email is from legal at 1and1 dot com. They sent me an email with a PDF of the copy of mail that they received. It was a cease and desist to take down the website which they are considering copyright infringement. If I do not provide the company that has been copyright infringed with my personal information within 5 days, and then notify 1and1 of my doing so, 1and1 will make my websites public with my personal information. That means that all of my private information that I put for all of my websites will become public and I do not want that. Is there any way that someone can send me an email and make it look like 1and1 sent it? The email and PDF are pretty convincing and it kind of makes me nervous.

Edit: The WHOIS information for my domains will become public after 5 days if I do not provide my information to the copyright infringed party.

[askloz]

if the content is rewritten, then they have no case, cos it's completely different... you could say its a review, but you just rewritten a piece of content, you didn't take the entire content, if you had taken the entire content and placed it on your site, that is copyright infringement if you added it to your site without your permission... plagiarism is not illegal.

Originally Posted by TheJuicer

I don't want my information to go public so people don't find out what my websites are.

What I did was rewrite information and it copyright infringed some of the information on their website and they don't like that. I tried getting to the top of Google serps with a search term of over 10,000. My website was on the second page and doing good but I guess they are in to SEO of their own.

If I get sued, there are payment plans for that type of stuff, right? I mean...damnit.

[showbizvet]

I think askloz has the goods... they should not give out your information without a court order and a letter from legal is not that. I did have a case where I infringed on a brandname (used their keywords in my domain), in my case I immediately took the site down, then transferred ownership to them, since I knew they had "big guns" if I didn't comply. Guess you have to think about what you have done, and how important the site is to you.

[kindsvater]

You could just cancel 1 and 1 and move your hosting, thus transferring who can publicly disclose whois info. They're not really a good service and in the long run you'll be happier with better hosting.

[TheJuicer]

Ok, I'm still kind of nervous but you all have somewhat put my fears at ease. I took the site down just in case and will transfer ownership if I need to. Should I still send them my personal information though? I just moved and my address is different, but I do not want them sending any piece of mail to my old address. I don't know if I should give them my stuff.

Here is the email:

"Dear *****

1&1 is in receipt of a cease and desist letter alleging that your domain
name(s) and/or websites infringe on the trade and service marks of a
third party. Pursuant to the terms and conditions of 1&1's private
domain registration, if you do not provide your contact information to
the complaining party and advise 1&1 that you have done so, the WHOIS
entry for your domain names will be updated to reflect your personal
information five days from the date of this e-mail.

Please see the attached copy of the cease and desist letter for contact
information.



Nancy McNelis
Legal Department
1&1 Internet Inc. "

If I change my address like that one person said, couldn't I get in more trouble for them not sending a "shake-in-boots" mail to the correct address? I really could use some more advice because this does seem pretty legit, really. If they do take me to court, I should just bend over and take it right? And could anyone tell me if there are payment plans for this type of stuff, because I'm not rich you know...

[JayInOrlando]

Is this forum spam, attempting to promote 1&1?

Why would you discuss legal problems here, I'd advise to locate an attorney who specializes in copyright law to review this. Putting any of it on a public form, admitting that you basically stole someone else work isn't going to help your case very much..

[marlon]

Hi,

He knows his stuff.

Marlon

[AlphaWarrior]

TheJuicer, if I understand correctly, you used content from site X, site X then had a lawyer write 1and1 for Whois contact information, and 1and1 emailed you for you to provide the info within 5 days or 1and1 will remove the "secret" from your Whois information. If that is correct, I have several questions and observations. Beware that I am not giving you any legal advice whatsoever. For legal advice, talk with a lawyer.

First, is site X the manufactor or owner of the product or brand name of the product that your site was about? Or is site X simply one of your competitors? If it is simply a competitor and you did not copy their content, you may not have anything to worry about. They may just be trying to get rid of you as a competitor. On the other hand, if site X is the owner of the brand name, you may have a problem.

Second, copyright infringement does not require that you copy something word for word. Depending on the situation, you can actually paraphrase content and still be liable for copyright infringement.

Third, in the US, copyright infringement is a civil matter which means that you cannot go to jail for it.

Fourth, it costs money to file lawsuits. A lot of times, lawyers will try to scare people into doing what the lawyers wants even though the lawyer cannot "make" the person do it.

Fifth, go back and review your agreement with 1and1 or look at their terms of service. When you signed up with them, you may actually have agreed to provide Whois contact information to whoever requested the information if the request appears to be legitimate. You may have agreed that if you do not provide the info, 1and1 can remove the "secret" from your Whois info.

If I were you, I would be inclined to provide the contact info to site X as stated in the email from 1and1.

If site X is the brand owner, I would also state that the site has been taken down. I would then forget it and move on.

If site X is simply a competitor, I would give them the contact info and nothing more. I would then redesign the site making sure that I did not copy or prarphrase site X's content and then put the new site back on the web.

That's my 2c.

[Scott Ames]

Are you sure this email is legit? Someone else got a similar one from the same company but instead of exposing their personal information they were simply going to cancel the account. That sounds more likely to me..

See this:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=492429

[askloz]

seems to me you've infringed on a trademark name, like having a domain with "ebay" in it.

I had a domain called "ebayblueprint.net" and got contacted by 'em asking me to not publish anything on the site. I told them that it's ONEWORD, not two, or three words, but they didn't swallow that. So I asked them to pay me for the domains. They didn't, so I launched the site any way to get my money back from the cost of the domain, which I had, then closed the site down. Still kept in touch with the members though.

Originally Posted by TheJuicer

Ok, I'm still kind of nervous but you all have somewhat put my fears at ease. I took the site down just in case and will transfer ownership if I need to. Should I still send them my personal information though? I just moved and my address is different, but I do not want them sending any piece of mail to my old address. I don't know if I should give them my stuff.

Here is the email:

"Dear *****

1&1 is in receipt of a cease and desist letter alleging that your domain
name(s) and/or websites infringe on the trade and service marks of a
third party. Pursuant to the terms and conditions of 1&1's private
domain registration, if you do not provide your contact information to
the complaining party and advise 1&1 that you have done so, the WHOIS
entry for your domain names will be updated to reflect your personal
information five days from the date of this e-mail.

Please see the attached copy of the cease and desist letter for contact
information.



Nancy McNelis
Legal Department
1&1 Internet Inc. "

If I change my address like that one person said, couldn't I get in more trouble for them not sending a "shake-in-boots" mail to the correct address? I really could use some more advice because this does seem pretty legit, really. If they do take me to court, I should just bend over and take it right? And could anyone tell me if there are payment plans for this type of stuff, because I'm not rich you know...

[askloz]

I was wondering that, and kinda wondered if this person is for real after i see they edited their name out... why the anonymity? it's not like they're gonna find the OP's last name from a single name.

Originally Posted by Scott Ames

Are you sure this email is legit? Someone else got a similar one from the same company but instead of exposing their personal information they were simply going to cancel the account. That sounds more likely to me..

See this:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=492429

[Kay King]

There are some problems here.

The OP mentions "copyright" but this letter isn't about "copyright" -it's about trademark.

People are posting "they can't do that" - but they probably can because

Pursuant to the terms and conditions of 1&1's private
domain registration

1and1 provides free private registration and their terms orovide for changing the registration to a standard form if there is a legal problem.

The company whose trademark was infringed most likely wants to make sure you receive a copy of the C&D and had they been able to find you that would have been sent to you instead of 1and1.

If you did violate a trademark by using it for a domain name (and you know if you did that), man up. You took down the site - and if it were me I'd contact THEM with an apology and play dumb (and broke). And I'd think twice before using a trademark again in a domain.

Unless you have money to fight a long legal battle over a well protected trademark (no adsense site is worth it) - or plan to hide under a rock for a long time - just get it over with.

kay

[askloz]

Originally Posted by AlphaWarrior

.

Second, copyright infringement does not require that you copy something word for word. Depending on the situation, you can actually paraphrase content and still be liable for copyright infringement.

I think that's correct.

cos if that was the case, then all these article directories would be in court every day of the week fighting it. Or other sites taking snippets of an article on their site, cos this is no different... and same goes for all these article spinners... and google for indexing duplicate content...so sorry, that just doesn't stick!

Originally Posted by AlphaWarrior

.

Fourth, it costs money to file lawsuits. A lot of times, lawyers will try to scare people into doing what the lawyers wants even though the lawyer cannot "make" the person do it.

We do that too. nasty I know, but it works.

[davezan]

Originally Posted by TheJuicer

If I change my address like that one person said, couldn't I get in more trouble for them not sending a "shake-in-boots" mail to the correct address? I really could use some more advice because this does seem pretty legit, really.

You could. And the only one who can really give you so-called qualified advice
is a licensed legal expert with real-world experience (lawyer, solicitor, etc.) in
your jurisdiction.

How to handle this practically depends on who you're dealing with.

[brettmwindmann]

Originally Posted by Andrew Dillon

Something doesn't add up here, I would do some more investigating before getting too worked up. I am instantly suspicious when someone asks for personal information and careful who I give such information to.

I agree with this post. That just does not seem normal. I would for sure do some more investigating into that.

[TheJuicer]

No, this is not a spam thread. This is the first time I received a cease and desist letter. I thought it was copyright but is instead trademark. I did you their company name in the name of my website and rewrote content from their website in order to be used as a review material for mine.

I will cancel my account with 1and1, but should I still send the information to the company that I used in my website name?

Edit: I have sent my information to the company I have offended and notified 1and1. I will cancel my account and not be using them anymore. I also came here for advice because many of you have been through these hoops before and I thought it would be good to come to you before I go to a legal counselor.

[kentaiwan98]

Thought for the moment: why are you using a name host and hosting on the same company? Separate the two: let your domains be hosted by a company like NameCheap, then use whatever hosting you like.

You'll lose a few dollars by not buying the domain with the hosting company, but it might help prevent some issues. Also, there's a huge question of jurisdiction, esp. if you are in different countries/continents. Of course, a really big company could have lawyers EVERYWHERE! But most wouldn't.

I thought about setting up a website with a branded name but was afraid of something like this, even though I would have been selling the company's products for them!

Kenneth

[euhlir]

They could sue you if they believe you've caused them any damages. Just because you received a C/D letter, doesn't mean it's over. I caution everyone not to use trademarked terms in domains.

[Kay King]

I did you their company name in the name of my website and rewrote content from their website in order to be used as a review material for mine.

Sounds like both a trademark and copyright problem so understandable they might not be happy.

1and1 was only protecting its business and following its own terms of use so cancel if you want but its not their fault that you did something wrong.
I use them for domain management but not for hosting as I never register and host with the same company.

You can have problems with any hosting or registrar if you are reported as violating trademark and/or copyright so learn the lesson and move on.

It's a harsh wakeup but now you know!

kay

[AnniePot]

Looking at this from the other side of the fence - for years I've owned a membership site in the travel niche. My url was also my registered and legally copyrighted business name.

Unfortunately, the registered copyright did me absolutely no good at all when a company in Nevada registered an almost identical url (the only difference was a hyphen. They then set up a website and called themselves by my business name exactly (the hyphen was only used in the url).

Not only that, their programmers found ways of stealing/downloading the databases of my competitors and placed everything on their website. You can't even imagine what my competitors thought of ME!

I thought it would be a simple matter to legally enforce my copyright, but think again. My attorney sent them cease and desist notices and they just laughed. Before any lawyer would so much as consider initiating legal action I would have been required to pay deposit of a minimum of $120,000

I wrote to the Attorney General of Nevada, including a ton of proof, screenshots, etc. After a couple of weeks his office wrote back telling me they could not see that this company had committed any offense.

I tried to enlist the support of the companies whose data had been stolen in a collective law suite, but they all just turned their backs on me.

In the end I just registered a new company name and url and began again.

[TheJuicer]

Yeah, I really hope it was just a scare tactic and they don't send their lawyers after a broke person like me. Not everyone can fight a legal battle.

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by TheJuicer

I don't want my information to go public so people don't find out what my websites are.

What I did was rewrite information and it copyright infringed some of the information on their website and they don't like that. I tried getting to the top of Google serps with a search term of over 10,000. My website was on the second page and doing good but I guess they are in to SEO of their own.

If I get sued, there are payment plans for that type of stuff, right? I mean...damnit.

Dude, nobody is going to sue you....you have nothing.

I did you their company name in the name of my website and rewrote content from their website in order to be used as a review material for mine.

Ok, that's different. If you're using their trademark in your domain, they very well may end up suing if you don't comply.

[SurviveUnemployment]

You get no sympathy from me. I hate content scrapers. Take your stuff from article directories if you can't come up with it on your own. Don't steal other people's work. You deserve every bit of stress you're under. Hope you learn something from this.

That being said, I think if you took the site down you have little to worry about at this point. I would back up all my sites locally just in case your host gives you the boot, though.

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by AnniePot

Unfortunately, the registered copyright did me absolutely no good at all when a company in Nevada registered an almost identical url (the only difference was a hyphen. They then set up a website and called themselves by my business name exactly (the hyphen was only used in the url).

That's because you can't copyright a name, or a title, etc.

[Stefanie]

There are a lot of people out there who advocate buying domain names that are a specific product name and model. I've forgotten the name of that one IM product that was big last Christmas for teaching how to promote physical products from Amazon doing this. I'm sure a lot of newbies don't realize the type of trouble that can get them into.

[pcpupil]

Originally Posted by showbizvet

I think askloz has the goods... they should not give out your information without a court order and a letter from legal is not that. I did have a case where I infringed on a brandname (used their keywords in my domain), in my case I immediately took the site down, then transferred ownership to them, since I knew they had "big guns" if I didn't comply. Guess you have to think about what you have done, and how important the site is to you.

Just out of curiosity,how can someone claim you stole there keyword.
Lets say theres a keyword[best aspirin].I buy a domain[bestaspirindotcom].Does this mean i can have 1 million websites claim i stole there keyword and am in copyright infringement?

[Kay King]

Read it again - it's trademark we're talking about. He meant the keyword that was trademarked.

In the case of the OP - and others I've heard of in the past - it's likely we're talking a well known brand owned by a large company. They have their own lawyers and they can afford to come after you.

If you act responsibility with the first contact, that's most often the end of it.

the registered copyright

Copyright doesn't apply to url's - trademark protection does.

[AnniePot]

Well, I had a documented US Government copyright. Signed, sealed and delivered by them ;-)

[john_kennedy]

I have had to defend a trademark violation. I contacted a trademark attorney and he handled it for me. The offender's whois info was protected so we had to go through Godaddy's legal department with proof of the violation. We needed this information in order to send a legal C&D letter to the domain owner. All I was interested in was that they take down their website and not pursue that domain name again. Had they persisted, I would have sued them in a heartbeat.

Most likely, all they need is your name and address so they can send you the letter.

John

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Read it again - it's trademark we're talking about. He meant the keyword that was trademarked.

In the case of the OP - and others I've heard of in the past - it's likely we're talking a well known brand owned by a large company. They have their own lawyers and they can afford to come after you.

If you act responsibility with the first contact, that's most often the end of it.



Copyright doesn't apply to url's - trademark protection does.

Hey Kay,

From what I have researched, it's the domain name itself, and not necessarily the URL.

For example:
www.ebay-secrets.com would be a violation, as "ebay" is in the domain name...

However:
www.mysite.com/ebay-secrets.html would be a valid, legal URL, as "ebay" isn't in the domain name.

[sbucciarel]

Sounds like you are guilty of copyright and trademark infringement. Take down the site and give them your contact info. You can't go to jail over it. They can sue but most likely won't because you are not a big enough fish to justify the cost of litigation.

You know by now, I hope that you shouldn't use trademark names in domains and you shouldn't rewrite other people's sites.

Just comply with what they want and most likely they will send a paper cease and desist and then they'll just go away as long as you are not still infringing.

[sparrow]

Darn

have you not contacted your hosting company and get the information straight from them

there is no need to expose your private information especially when the site is down

if they are forcing you to do this time to find new hosting, they don't have a right to expose your private information

Ed

Originally Posted by TheJuicer

I'm guessing that the email is from legal at 1and1 dot com. They sent me an email with a PDF of the copy of mail that they received. It was a cease and desist to take down the website which they are considering copyright infringement. If I do not provide the company that has been copyright infringed with my personal information within 5 days, and then notify 1and1 of my doing so, 1and1 will make my websites public with my personal information. That means that all of my private information that I put for all of my websites will become public and I do not want that. Is there any way that someone can send me an email and make it look like 1and1 sent it? The email and PDF are pretty convincing and it kind of makes me nervous.

Edit: The WHOIS information for my domains will become public after 5 days if I do not provide my information to the copyright infringed party.

[AlphaWarrior]

Originally Posted by AnniePot

Well, I had a documented US Government copyright. Signed, sealed and delivered by them ;-)

Who is "them"?

[Kay King]

Kurt -

Don't think we're on the same page. Annie posted:

My url was also my registered and legally copyrighted business name.

and then again refers to "copyright" in a follow up post.

But the gov site clearly states

Copyright law does not protect domain names

To protect a business name (brand) and the url using it is a trademark protection issue - not copyright. She doesn't mention filing for trademark registration.

I may be reading it wrong - and IANAL - but I've found many people think copyright and trademark are the same thing...and they're not.

It would be a real stinker to lose your business name but that may be why it couldn't be enforced.

kay

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Kay King

Kurt -

Don't think we're on the same page. Annie posted:

and then again refers to "copyright" in a follow up post.

But the gov site clearly states To protect a business name (brand) and the url using it is a trademark protection issue - not copyright. She doesn't mention filing for trademark registration.

I may be reading it wrong - and IANAL - but I've found many people think copyright and trademark are the same thing...and they're not.

It would be a real stinker to lose your business name but that may be why it couldn't be enforced.

kay

Hi Kay,

Actually, I believe the misunderstanding is with the use of "URL" and "domain name", as opposed to "copy right" and "trade mark". I believe it's OK to use a trademark in the URL, as long as it is to the right of the TLD (top level domain). To the left of the TLD is the domain name.

[Ernie Mitchell]

Juicer,

First --- I’m not an attorney nor should this be considered as legal advice.

My experience has been that with copyright infringement issues damages “usually” don’t start until after the C&D letter is ignored. C&D letters are serious. If you are infringing and you get a C&D letter and don’t pay heed be prepared to pay --- and pay --- and pay. The copyright issue will probably go away if you immediately comply assuming you are not found to be infringing on any of the complaining parties other websites.

The trademark issue can be a little more prickly. I’ve know of cases where companies sued and were awarded judgments simply to prove a point/make an example. My belief is that when a company learns that their trademark is being infringed/compromised they HAVE to defend it or else they lose the right to do so in the future. If the company that sent you the letter has been having trouble with this sort of thing in the past they may decide to sue you to not only get your attention but everybody else’s. After all it's working so far.

I would say the reason they want your stats is so they can serve you personally with a letter and also to have a look to see if you have any other websites that are infringing. If this wasn’t an innocent and isolated mistake you need to clean up your act before you end up with a 200K judgment and wage garnishments for the next 20 years.

I’d seek competent legal counsel immediately.

[Alan Petersen]

If you're that worried about it go get advice from a lawyer not from a forum. It won't cost you much to have an attorney take a look and give you their professional opinion on what to do.