Wish I had listened.....

14 years ago

If it wasn't for the fact that we legally have to put in our mailing address when it comes to the auto responders and what not I would be using it.

I am definitely not comfortable with having just anyone who signs up know my address.

Thanks
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cobra tatham

14 years ago

Wham,
If you are in business making money online then why would you be so concerned about having your address and info in your autoresponder? Being transparent is a key element. Far too many people hide behind the curtain.

-Andy

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

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Wham

14 years ago

If I had created a product I would do it

But as an affiliate I don't feel I need to allow others to see personal information, right now I couldn't even make effective use of an opt in page. Everyone always says they wish they did a list when they first started, but the fact is beginners aren't ready for such a thing, and I would consider myself still in the beginner stages.

Running an offline business where you do things in person is a tad different then being an affiliate online, big mike. I'm not running a business, I'm promoting a couple of products through reviews.

Thanks
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cconlan

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wham

If I had created a product I would do it

But as an affiliate I don't feel I need to allow others to see personal information, right now I couldn't even make effective use of an opt in page. Everyone always says they wish they did a list when they first started, but the fact is beginners aren't ready for such a thing, and I would consider myself still in the beginner stages.

Running an offline business where you do things in person is a tad different then being an affiliate online, big mike. I'm not running a business, I'm promoting a couple of products through reviews.

Without a list man you are letting money pass through your fingers. You should really consider collecting email address before sending people to other people's sites? Why just drive traffic to a page and let them go when you could be capturing them and having your own traffic you can send to any offer you want when you want?

I agree that not having a list is crazy. You will probably regret not having one in the future when you wanna make a business for yourself.

Thanks

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SageSound

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wham

Running an offline business where you do things in person is a tad different then being an affiliate online, big mike. I'm not running a business, I'm promoting a couple of products through reviews.

ROTFLMAO!!!

"Uh, well, see Mr. IRS Auditor, I just make a living promoting stuff online. It's not really a business..."

If you make money, it's a B-U-S-I-N-E-S-S and you'd be darn smart to TREAT IT LIKE ONE! Because if you DO get audited a few years down the road, the IRS isn't going to listen to your silly excuses.

And one SURE WAY to get audited is for the IRS to start questioning unreported income from those same affiliate programs you're making money from while "not running a business". Not to mention your lack of filing state and local BUSINESS taxes as required by most places.

Actually, like most people, you've got the whole equation flip-flopped.

You can be "running a business" with no profit for 3 of the past 5 years, and gain valuable tax deductions that you cannot use if you do NOT have a business.

If you say "I'm not running a business" that basically translates to, "I'm such a goofball that I don't really care about legitimate tax deductions that I can use to offset my income."

If you ARE "running a business", then a box at a UPS store in the name of your business is a perfectly legitimate business expense and deduction. If you're NOT "running a business", then ... well, you're throwing money away.

-David

[ 3 ] Thanks
1 reply

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Wham

14 years ago

Originally Posted by SageSound

ROTFLMAO!!!

"Uh, well, see Mr. IRS Auditor, I just make a living promoting stuff online. It's not really a business..."

If you make money, it's a B-U-S-I-N-E-S-S and you'd be darn smart to TREAT IT LIKE ONE! Because if you DO get audited a few years down the road, the IRS isn't going to listen to your silly excuses.

And one SURE WAY to get audited is for the IRS to start questioning unreported income from those same affiliate programs you're making money from while "not running a business". Not to mention your lack of filing state and local BUSINESS taxes as required by most places.

Actually, like most people, you've got the whole equation flip-flopped.

You can be "running a business" with no profit for 3 of the past 5 years, and gain valuable tax deductions that you cannot use if you do NOT have a business.

If you say "I'm not running a business" that basically translates to, "I'm such a goofball that I don't really care about legitimate tax deductions that I can use to offset my income."

If you ARE "running a business", then a box at a UPS store in the name of your business is a perfectly legitimate business expense and deduction. If you're NOT "running a business", then ... well, you're throwing money away.

-David

I've made like $200 the past month I've started. As I've stated I am a beginner, I'm not making a living.

So I don't think IRS is going to come knocking on my door anytime soon. I'll treat it like a business when I'm actually making real money, until then it's nothing but some extra bucks I've made online.

Thanks
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Black Hat Cat

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wham

I'll treat it like a business when I'm actually making real money, until then it's nothing but some extra bucks I've made online.

Yeah....I think you've got that a little backwards. It's kind of like saying I'll go to med school once I get a job as a doctor.

I am definitely not comfortable with having just anyone who signs up know my address.

As opposed to what, total strangers that drive by your house every day knowing your address?

Having said all that, ultimately, you're right....you don't need a list. Since you're just pretending, an auto responder would simply be a waste of money.

Thanks
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Wham

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat

Yeah....I think you've got that a little backwards. It's kind of like saying I'll go to med school once I get a job as a doctor.

As opposed to what, total strangers that drive by your house every day knowing your address?

Having said all that, ultimately, you're right....you don't need a list. Since you're just pretending, an auto responder would simply be a waste of money.

Your goals are different from mine, you want to make a living online, I want to make some extra cash in my free time which I have been doing just fine. I don't have to take this as serious as some of you.

Yes considering a few people driving by my house is the same as sending out my address to thousands of people all over the world.

And yeah I know that because I don't treat it as seriously I don't make as much money as you guys, but the thing is I'm not trying make a full time living off this.

Thanks

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Frank Tocco

14 years ago

But as an affiliate I don't feel I need to allow others to see personal information, right now I couldn't even make effective use of an opt in page. Everyone always says they wish they did a list when they first started, but the fact is beginners aren't ready for such a thing, and I would consider myself still in the beginner stages.

Wait a minute...
Are you saying that having a list of people interested in the products that you´re offering is somehow something you´re not ready for?

It just makes business sense that if you´re offering a product to have a way for people to raise their hand and say, "Yes, count me in."

They may come to your affiliate site to have a look but just don´t have the time to join at that very moment. So later in their day when they do have the time to join they can´t remember the name of your site and that means you just lost a sale. How many sales do you think you´ve lost just because they weren´t ready to buy right then?

Do yourself a favor and build that list now. Besides making more sales and your marketing life easier, it´s an invaluable asset that can pay you longterm.

Many of todays largest companies started this way. Sears, J.C. Pennys, Google, Yahoo, Borders, Barnes & Noble etc.

As for people seeing your personal information, any email account can be opened without people seeing that info.

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wiley1

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wham

If I had created a product I would do it

But as an affiliate I don't feel I need to allow others to see personal information, right now I couldn't even make effective use of an opt in page. Everyone always says they wish they did a list when they first started, but the fact is beginners aren't ready for such a thing, and I would consider myself still in the beginner stages.

Running an offline business where you do things in person is a tad different then being an affiliate online, big mike. I'm not running a business, I'm promoting a couple of products through reviews.

"...beginners aren't ready for such a thing".. Not true at all. I'm a "almost" beginner and I've just learned how to make an opt-in page and build my own list before sending my prospects off to my affiliate offer. Why would you do all that work only to build the vendor's list for him. You're losing out big time!

You need to start now. You can do it. Just requires a change in your thinking.

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DonDavis

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wham

If I had created a product I would do it

But as an affiliate I don't feel I need to allow others to see personal information, right now I couldn't even make effective use of an opt in page. Everyone always says they wish they did a list when they first started, but the fact is beginners aren't ready for such a thing, and I would consider myself still in the beginner stages.

Running an offline business where you do things in person is a tad different then being an affiliate online, big mike. I'm not running a business, I'm promoting a couple of products through reviews.

You can lead a horse to water...

Thanks

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scrofford

14 years ago

Originally Posted by cobra tatham

Wham,
If you are in business making money online then why would you be so concerned about having your address and info in your autoresponder? Being transparent is a key element. Far too many people hide behind the curtain.

-Andy

I completely agree with you! How can someone trust you without transparency?

Thanks

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BIG Mike Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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- Kevin Riley 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BIG Mike
  
  Um...when's the last time you saw an offline business try to keep their address a secret?
  
  So true. I often wonder when I hear this excuse for not having an autoresponder. My thoughts are "OMG! Are you not in business? Do you not want to make money?"
  
  Thanks
  
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  Kevin Riley, long-time Warrior living in Osaka, Japan
  
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- Matt Bard 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BIG Mike
  
  Um...when's the last time you saw an offline business try to keep their address a secret?
  
  Area 51...oh wait, it's Area 51.
  
  Nevermind.
  
  Thanks
  
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Kevin Riley

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wham

If it wasn't for the fact that we legally have to put in our mailing address when it comes to the auto responders and what not I would be using it.

I am definitely not comfortable with having just anyone who signs up know my address.

Use a mailbox service to forward your mail on from one of their addresses. Won't cost you much and is definitely a small price to pay for the income potential of an autoresponder.

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Danny Cutts

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wham

If it wasn't for the fact that we legally have to put in our mailing address when it comes to the auto responders and what not I would be using it.

I am definitely not comfortable with having just anyone who signs up know my address.

That was me a few years ago.....

Danny

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Rod Cortez

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wham

If it wasn't for the fact that we legally have to put in our mailing address when it comes to the auto responders and what not I would be using it.

I am definitely not comfortable with having just anyone who signs up know my address.

Me neither, which is why I use a PO Box. There are also services where you can have a suite number and even have a receptionist answer the phone for you for a nominal fee. You don't have to use your home address if you don't want to.

That should not stop you from building a list. Sometimes my list accounts for 80% of my total profits. Not building a list properly is the equivalent of leaving a lot of money on the table. And over time it does become A LOT!

RoD

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Mike Hill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wham

If it wasn't for the fact that we legally have to put in our mailing address when it comes to the auto responders and what not I would be using it.

I am definitely not comfortable with having just anyone who signs up know my address.

Then get a PO Box... That's the easiest way to start!

Mike Hill

Thanks
1 reply

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Wham 14 years ago

Well your right it was dumb of me to say it's a fact that beginners aren't ready, some people are ready to take it on, but coming from me who was nearly complete IM beginner a month ago, I wouldn't have even been able to make an opt in page nor was I ready to take on building relations with others and answering emails. I ignore 90% of emails I get from people who's list I'm on, because they have nothing to offer me that I care about, and I don't feel I have enough to offer for other people to care about yet. Being told to build a list when you're a beginner is a bit overwhelming when you don't even understand IM yet.

I don't advertise in one niche, I go across many, I just don't have enough information about one particular niche, and I would never try to get sales for products I don't know enough about.
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MichaelHiles

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wham

If it wasn't for the fact that we legally have to put in our mailing address when it comes to the auto responders and what not I would be using it.

I am definitely not comfortable with having just anyone who signs up know my address.

I live so far out into the country, between the meth cookers, the dog fighters, and the dope growers, anyone looking for my property takes their life into their hands by simply turning around in a random driveway.

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Danny Cutts

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

I live so far out into the country, between the meth cookers, the dog fighters, and the dope growers, anyone looking for my property takes their life into their hands by simply turning around in a random driveway.

HUH!?!? have I missed something.... do I need to call for help?

I'm not running a business, I'm promoting a couple of products through reviews.

With that mind set you WILL not succeed working online is a business it puts money in your pocket!

Danny

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MichaelHiles 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Danny Cutts

HUH!?!? have I missed something.... do I need to call for help?

lol... sorry Danny... I was responding to Wham and inadvertently failed to hit the quote button.

I added their quote to my original post.
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Wham

14 years ago

I'd be just as happy to see $50 in my ClickBank account as $1,000. I'm not money hungry, as long as I see my work isn't going unnoticed I'm happy with what I'm doing. Not everyone is here to go the whole mile and make an online business, some of us just enjoy the extra buck.

Thanks
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Keith Boisvert

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wham

I'd be just as happy to see $50 in my ClickBank account as $1,000. I'm not money hungry, as long as I see my work isn't going unnoticed I'm happy with what I'm doing. Not everyone is here to go the whole mile and make an online business, some of us just enjoy the extra buck.

I am not "money hungry" either, but I would just assume have $1000 than $50.

And one of the very first things I did when I got into this field was to get an autoresponder. Granted it went underused for a long time, but I had it and was ready to rock with it. Invaluable tool when used properly.

Keith

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GoGetta

14 years ago

Danny,

Nail on the head comes to mind!

I did the exact same thing, only now am I seeing the POWER of lists! But it goes with everything IM, taking action is the key!

GoGetta

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TelegramSam

14 years ago

You just can't get privacy like you used to in the good old days!

I get so annoyed when customers buy stuff from us and then we have to send them products and let them know our office address and phone number and that we really exist.

Why can't they just send money and never know who we are?

Jeez...Customers are just so unreasonable these days :-)

Sam

[ 1 ] Thanks
2 replies

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Wham

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TelegramSam

You just can't get privacy like you used to in the good old days!

I get so annoyed when customers buy stuff from us and then we have to send them products and let them know our office address and phone number and that we really exist.

Why can't they just send money and never know who we are?

Jeez...Customers are just so unreasonable these days :-)

Sam

lol yeah of course it makes sense if your actually running a business

im at my house
i promote a couple of affiliate products
rather people not know exactly where I live
after all it's not my product, they have no need to know where I live.

I'm just personally not comfortable giving away any personal information to people I don't know on the internet, and for that I don't expect people to hand over there money either, which is why I don't build a list.

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DogScout

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TelegramSam

You just can't get privacy like you used to in the good old days!

I get so annoyed when customers buy stuff from us and then we have to send them products and let them know our office address and phone number and that we really exist.

Why can't they just send money and never know who we are?

Jeez...Customers are just so unreasonable these days :-)

Sam

Why do we even have send them anything? Why don't they just us send money for nothing? (and our chicks for free?)

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TelegramSam 14 years ago

Originally Posted by DogScout

Why do we even have send them anything? Why don't they just us send money for nothing? (and our chicks for free?)

I couldn't agree more.

By all means add me to your list if that is what I'll get

P.S. - One way the IRS cracks down on falsely reported or unreported income is going after people who have affiliates.

They simply ask for a list of names and addresses that the company has paid commissions to.
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robyrobertson

14 years ago

Thanks Danny, I needed that. I have been making some money without a list but wondering why my profits have not risen. My next 'to do' is to put this in place. However, I needed this kick in the pants to move this activity to the TOP of this list...

Thanks!

Thanks

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Tom Harvey

14 years ago

For the Life of me, I cannot understand how anybody that is an internet marketer doesn't understand the value and the asset potential of the LIST. For years in one form or another, the list has been the foundation of virtually all retail businesses. Sears, JC Penny and all the others who sent out promo flyers in the mail. What did they use? THE LIST! It is the singularly most important Tool in your advertising war chest..

[ 1 ] Thanks
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Colin Theriot

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Wham

I've made like $200 the past month I've started. As I've stated I am a beginner, I'm not making a living.

So I don't think IRS is going to come knocking on my door anytime soon. I'll treat it like a business when I'm actually making real money, until then it's nothing but some extra bucks I've made online.

Regardless of what you define as "real money" the IRS cares the second you make more than $600 at a single effort. That's when it crosses the line from "hobby" to "taxable income" regardless of if you are set up as a business or not. Just FYI. A good friend of mine was having to take money out of his pay for 5 years to pay back taxes and penalties from a 6 month stint he worked as a freelancer and never filed on the income.

Now, back to commenting on what the OP said.

Building the list is the most valuable thing you can do. Period. No matter what you're doing online, it should probably always have to do with building an audience of people that you can communicate with on-demand.

Whether they are RSS subs, blog readers, email subs, twitter followers, facebook fans, whatever. These super-mega launches are ALL built on years of work behind the scenes.

For example, before StomperNet launched, a lot of people hadn't really heard of Brad Fallon or Andy Jenkins. But that $24 million launch day was built on the strength of dozens and dozens of testimonials from people they'd worked with for 2 years. The core DVD product was a collection of 2 years worth of training materials, a lot of which was produced by recording the training that was given to the people who gave testimonials.

Between Brad and Andy they had lists of 10s of 1000s by themselves BEFORE the big name JVs were wrangled to get behind a product that offered a chance at such a big payday.

Once all that came together, we ended up with a list of like, 70,000 people that we could passively market to any time we wanted to WITHOUT needing to have our own products or have another launch, or really do anything at all but send an email.

The money is in the list (once you spend the time building a list of people who have money).

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Zack Lim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Harvey

For the Life of me, I cannot understand how anybody that is an internet marketer doesn't understand the value and the asset potential of the LIST. For years in one form or another, the list has been the foundation of virtually all retail businesses. Sears, JC Penny and all the others who sent out promo flyers in the mail. What did they use? THE LIST! It is the singularly most important Tool in your advertising war chest..

Hi Tom,

I agree with you that offline companies have been doing list building for many years offline. At the end of the day, the internet business is still a real business and we will need to have our own list so that the whole business will be sustainable for a long time.

Zack

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TheBeatles

Banned 14 years ago

I used to have the attitude that when you became a good marketer you built a list....but the fact is people become good marketers by building a list in thr first place

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Terry Loving

14 years ago

I appreciate this valuable stream of information. I too am reading a lot and not getting my list built. Haven't taken the leap from "hobby" to "business". Time to work on the list.
Terry

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JonMills

14 years ago

Well there is getting a list, but building relationships with them is the challenge. A list by itself doesn't = money

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Kevin J Foy

14 years ago

True most people we speak with say you need to have a list to get the better money. Others say if you are only doing affiliate marketing you don't need a list

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Rod Cortez

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin J Foy

True most people we speak with say you need to have a list to get the better money. Others say if you are only doing affiliate marketing you don't need a list

True, you don't NEED a list when affiliate marketing, but you can make signficantly more money if you do build your own list and drip out your affiliate offers. Which goes back to what I said....not building a list means you're leaving money on the table. Period.

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bobsstuff

14 years ago

I live in Calfifornia and the department of motor vehicles is happy to to put my post office box as the address on my driver's license. It is a legal address as far as they are concerned.

I have a U.S. Post Office "P.O Box" which is P.O. Box 60XXX and I also have a UPS Store mail box which is simple a street address and looks like any apartment address.
(i.e 123 Main St Unit 123) I use the UPS Store address as my "business address".

I have a $10 (at Walmart) Tracfone for my "business phone".

I also do not care for everyone in the world to know my home address and home phone number. Earlier in the year I used my warehouse address and phone, but I have closed that business. NO, I am not paranoid, I just like to keep my personal life separate from my business life.

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RMC 14 years ago

Second on the po box.

I had someone go, wow you have a nice neighborhood, and it freaked me out (they had googled earthed me)...so I quickly ran and setup a PO box.

$28 a year.

And to start there's some responder software out there to self host that's pretty affordable. I know I sell one.

Finally, even $19 a month to start is cheap. and rock bottom, you can get $6.95 hosting a month.

All in total, less than I spend on beer a month.

So unless you've never made over $100 online, you really have no excuse. And if you haven't made that much, it's probably because you're being super cheapskate and not willing to save up a few bucks to get the proper supplies.

Word to the wise, I made a ton, but left about 6 figs on the table from an early site that I just didn't ever get setup on a proper responder because of one excuse or another.

Don't wait...get a list, make more money. Even if you don't strike it rich consider it learning on the job. It's still cheaper than college, and seminars.
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seanyd

14 years ago

This is great advice will put it into practise. Great thread

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showbizvet

14 years ago

money is in the list.. we've all heard that.. then eventually we all come to believe it. For me.. I (as is suggested earlier in this thread) just use a po box, pretty simple and not that expensive.

Of course I've thought of using the address of my nosey neighbor (just kidding)