Kern vs. Brunson

jamawebinc · 11-06-2009, 04:24 AM

No, it's not an UFC cage match or anything.

I have heard them say contrasting advice on how to get people to buy from you so I thought it would be a great topic for a discussion and see what you guys think.

Here is what they said:

Kern: (After sending an email to your list giving content)

"We're not saying - Hey, we're great...ya know...buy my stuff. We're not doing anything any of that stuff that most other people do to you. We just GAVE them value....What happened is, the prospect used that content and got closer to his end goal and his desire to buy our product increases.

"All you gotta do is give away stuff that makes people happy …and then sell stuff that makes ‘em even happier."

-----

Brunson: (On if you are not making money from your list)

"You're not selling them things...You're trying to be a nice guy and just give em content, as much as that sounds nice is not going to make you any money.....as soon as you give out tons and tons of content, which is what everyone wants to do, your subscribers (people on your freebie mailing list) will stop buying from you. When you try to sell them something, they won't buy from you."

-----

Ok, your turn. Comments anyone?

MichaelHiles · 11-06-2009, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamawebinc

No, it's not an UFC cage match or anything.

I have heard them say contrasting advice on how to get people to buy from you so I thought it would be a great topic for a discussion and see what you guys think.

Here is what they said:

Kern: (After sending an email to your list giving content)

"We're not saying - Hey, we're great...ya know...buy my stuff. We're not doing anything any of that stuff that most other people do to you. We just GAVE them value....What happened is, the prospect used that content and got closer to his end goal and his desire to buy our product increases.

"All you gotta do is give away stuff that makes people happy …and then sell stuff that makes ‘em even happier."

-----

Brunson: (On if you are not making money from your list)

"You're not selling them things...You're trying to be a nice guy and just give em content, as much as that sounds nice is not going to make you any money.....as soon as you give out tons and tons of content, which is what everyone wants to do, your subscribers (people on your freebie mailing list) will stop buying from you. When you try to sell them something, they won't buy from you."

-----

Ok, your turn. Comments anyone?

This isn't an either/or. They're both essentially saying the same thing, just a little differently.

Kern says, give them VALUE and they will move closer to buying.

Brunson doesn't say not to give them value... just don't give away the farm. Give enough value to move them, but not kill your sale.

John Taylor · 11-06-2009, 04:33 AM

Why not do what works for you and the
relationship you have with your list?

I get sick and tired of seeing people say
that you've got to do it this way or that
way.

If everybody does the same thing, they
won't stand out. There won't be anything
that differentiates them. If you want to
do well in the market place.. define your
uniqueness and leverage it.

John

JayXtreme · 11-06-2009, 05:19 AM

I think they are both doing and teaching what works for them, perfectly...

But that doesn't mean it will definitely work for you, what you need to do is establish a relationship with a bunch of subscribers and then work on the way YOU are going to do it...

Frank and Russell have both given you advice to use, now garner that info and implement it into your testing to see which path you will take.

Test it, analyse the results and adjust accordingly...

Peace

Jay

nicholasb · 11-06-2009, 05:21 AM

I think if you combined the business model russel provides with micro cotinuity, with the marketing knowledge frank kern gives, you have one hell of a powerful system that can be applied to any business online or off.

TelegramSam · 11-06-2009, 06:07 AM

Here's one rule I'm pretty certain of:

"Give them nothing, and you'll receive nothing ($0)"

Sam

Willie Crawford · 11-06-2009, 07:44 AM

They both do and teach what works for them based upon
many factors including their personality and WHO they
are emailing. A lot of it depends upon the source of your
traffic or subscribers and how well they know you.

As several others have said, I don't really see a conflict
in their advice... they're looking at it from different angles.

Willie

Steven Carl Kelly · 11-06-2009, 09:03 AM

One key to outstanding success is contained within one of those two statements in the OP. Traditional thinking, in many cases, is completely wrong when it comes to marketing -- especially online. Add in what Jeffrey Gitomer has to say on the subject of sales and you have an amazing formula that will make you far more successful than you ever thought you could be.

I once had a eureka moment... and after that epiphany my life and level of success changed dramatically.

TheWealthSquad · 11-06-2009, 09:26 AM

Frank refers to his as Results in Advance. It is a way to build trust with your customer. Give him information that is useful and valuable.

Russel says to give before you get as well. His MicroC system is to set up a video squeeze page that gives away the answer to a tough question. Then he offers to send them more "free" information if they pay for shipping and handling. Russel simply gets the credit card out earlier.

Obviously both systems work as seen by the results they get. Looking at the fundamental building block of both systems it shows some valuable economic information.

Before a customer will give you money they have to trust that the thing they receive is of greater value than time they spent earning the money they give you. Higher priced items take more trust development. Russel offers to give you a great value for a small price. Frank gives more away but then sells you a much higher priced item.

Both are very effective methods. Both work through the same psychology. Raise the trust level to greater than the cost of your product.

jamawebinc · 11-06-2009, 11:17 AM

Interesting comments so far.

I wrote this post at about 4:30 in the morning while being up for a few hours, which happens a lot when you have small children.

I have my own take on the matter and was not asking for advice, but thought it could start a good debate and thought the comments would be interesting - which they have been so far.

Colin Theriot · 11-06-2009, 11:29 AM

Both of them are saying the same thing - the point of the list is to condition a response, and the main one you're shooting for is the clicking and the buying.

Frank is saying how you do that (give awesome stuff and continuously reward continuous attention and compliance).

Russel is reminding you not to forget that while you're giving away good content, don't forget that the point is to be selling stuff.

A good mix is 60% content and 40% promotional, but it will always work best if your emails give no clear indication of which is which, and also if you create your content around the concept of "selling" the reality of the pain and problems your market has.

That way when you run promotions, you have a strong impression in your audience that you not only understand their fears and frustrations, but they will assume you also know how to guide them towards their desires.

And then you just charge them for each time you give them something that will help them move in that direction.

Hesaidblissfully · 11-06-2009, 12:57 PM

What I've seen a lot of people do is have their paid product be tied into their free products in such a way that you don't NEED to purchase the paid product to get results, but the paid product makes the process a lot faster or easier.

For example, you send out a video to your list that shows them how effective review sites can be and how to research them and set them up. You genuinely give them enough information in the free video that they could take that and run with it and make money. But then at the end of the video, you mention that you put together a collection of review site templates that you're selling. Or you might even offer a personal coaching program at a higher price point for a limited number of people where you'll work with them to set up and successfully run their review sites.

This way, your free content has value in itself, but you offer a paid product that promises to help the viewer get the result they're looking for even faster.

11-06-2009, 04:24 AM	#1
jamawebinc HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NYC - USA Posts: 406 Thanks: 10 Thanked 96 Times in 46 Posts	Kern vs. Brunson No, it's not an UFC cage match or anything. I have heard them say contrasting advice on how to get people to buy from you so I thought it would be a great topic for a discussion and see what you guys think. Here is what they said: Kern: (After sending an email to your list giving content) "We're not saying - Hey, we're great...ya know...buy my stuff. We're not doing anything any of that stuff that most other people do to you. We just GAVE them value....What happened is, the prospect used that content and got closer to his end goal and his desire to buy our product increases. "All you gotta do is give away stuff that makes people happy …and then sell stuff that makes ‘em even happier." ----- Brunson: (On if you are not making money from your list) "You're not selling them things...You're trying to be a nice guy and just give em content, as much as that sounds nice is not going to make you any money.....as soon as you give out tons and tons of content, which is what everyone wants to do, your subscribers (people on your freebie mailing list) will stop buying from you. When you try to sell them something, they won't buy from you." ----- Ok, your turn. Comments anyone?
	- The Death of Product Launches - -SEO and Business Building Blueprint - .

11-06-2009, 04:33 AM	#3
John Taylor Recovering Millionaire War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Langholm, Scotland, United Kingdom. Posts: 10,049 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 1,214 Thanked 2,451 Times in 638 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Kern vs. Brunson Why not do what works for you and the relationship you have with your list? I get sick and tired of seeing people say that you've got to do it this way or that way. If everybody does the same thing, they won't stand out. There won't be anything that differentiates them. If you want to do well in the market place.. define your uniqueness and leverage it. John
	Grab Your FREE Copy (No Opt-In) Of Choosing A Market - Volume One From Snoop Marketing.

11-06-2009, 05:19 AM	#4
JayXtreme Lookin at You.... War Room Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Out Of My Mind - Brandy Too Posts: 4,120 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 2,885 Thanked 1,344 Times in 710 Posts Social Networking	Re: Kern vs. Brunson I think they are both doing and teaching what works for them, perfectly... But that doesn't mean it will definitely work for you, what you need to do is establish a relationship with a bunch of subscribers and then work on the way YOU are going to do it... Frank and Russell have both given you advice to use, now garner that info and implement it into your testing to see which path you will take. Test it, analyse the results and adjust accordingly... Peace Jay
	Bare Murkage.........

11-06-2009, 05:21 AM	#5
nicholasb Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: , , USA. Posts: 1,910 Thanks: 85 Thanked 677 Times in 253 Posts Social Networking	Re: Kern vs. Brunson I think if you combined the business model russel provides with micro cotinuity, with the marketing knowledge frank kern gives, you have one hell of a powerful system that can be applied to any business online or off.
	Let Me Do It For You Make Guaranteed Sales With Proven High Converting Affiliate Campaigns built personally by me

11-06-2009, 06:07 AM	#6
TelegramSam Battle Hardened Warrior Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA/UK Posts: 690 Thanks: 44 Thanked 166 Times in 89 Posts	Re: Kern vs. Brunson Here's one rule I'm pretty certain of: "Give them nothing, and you'll receive nothing ($0)" Sam

11-06-2009, 07:44 AM	#7
Willie Crawford Council Member War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Navarre,FL , USA. Posts: 10,213 Blog Entries: 19 Thanks: 710 Thanked 1,224 Times in 414 Posts Social Networking	Re: Kern vs. Brunson They both do and teach what works for them based upon many factors including their personality and WHO they are emailing. A lot of it depends upon the source of your traffic or subscribers and how well they know you. As several others have said, I don't really see a conflict in their advice... they're looking at it from different angles. Willie
	Watch Over My Shoulder As I Generate A Minimum Of $100K THIS Month, Doing Things That Anyone Can Copy. I'll Provide You With Daily Updates. No Theory - Things That I'll Actually Do As I Explain Them To You! ===>>> Don't Miss This WSO!

11-06-2009, 09:03 AM	#8
Steven Carl Kelly Trust Christ Alone War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Central Florida Posts: 3,014 Thanks: 63 Thanked 806 Times in 391 Posts	Re: Kern vs. Brunson One key to outstanding success is contained within one of those two statements in the OP. Traditional thinking, in many cases, is completely wrong when it comes to marketing -- especially online. Add in what Jeffrey Gitomer has to say on the subject of sales and you have an amazing formula that will make you far more successful than you ever thought you could be. I once had a eureka moment... and after that epiphany my life and level of success changed dramatically.
	Read this SURPRISING REPORT Before You Buy ANY WSO! Click Here FREE REPORT: Split Test Your Landing Pages the Easy Way

11-06-2009, 09:26 AM	#9
TheWealthSquad Scott Lovingood War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: East TN Posts: 292 Blog Entries: 16 Thanks: 71 Thanked 96 Times in 60 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Kern vs. Brunson Frank refers to his as Results in Advance. It is a way to build trust with your customer. Give him information that is useful and valuable. Russel says to give before you get as well. His MicroC system is to set up a video squeeze page that gives away the answer to a tough question. Then he offers to send them more "free" information if they pay for shipping and handling. Russel simply gets the credit card out earlier. Obviously both systems work as seen by the results they get. Looking at the fundamental building block of both systems it shows some valuable economic information. Before a customer will give you money they have to trust that the thing they receive is of greater value than time they spent earning the money they give you. Higher priced items take more trust development. Russel offers to give you a great value for a small price. Frank gives more away but then sells you a much higher priced item. Both are very effective methods. Both work through the same psychology. Raise the trust level to greater than the cost of your product.
	Scott Lovingood - Join me on Linkedin Creating Wealth with a small business Baby Steps to Wealth - Free Report Best Motivational Business Speech

11-06-2009, 11:17 AM	#10
jamawebinc HyperActive Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: NYC - USA Posts: 406 Thanks: 10 Thanked 96 Times in 46 Posts	Re: Kern vs. Brunson Interesting comments so far. I wrote this post at about 4:30 in the morning while being up for a few hours, which happens a lot when you have small children. I have my own take on the matter and was not asking for advice, but thought it could start a good debate and thought the comments would be interesting - which they have been so far.
	- The Death of Product Launches - -SEO and Business Building Blueprint - .

11-06-2009, 11:29 AM	#11
Colin Theriot caveat lector,emptor fiet War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Roswell, GA Posts: 657 Thanks: 133 Thanked 607 Times in 262 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Kern vs. Brunson Both of them are saying the same thing - the point of the list is to condition a response, and the main one you're shooting for is the clicking and the buying. Frank is saying how you do that (give awesome stuff and continuously reward continuous attention and compliance). Russel is reminding you not to forget that while you're giving away good content, don't forget that the point is to be selling stuff. A good mix is 60% content and 40% promotional, but it will always work best if your emails give no clear indication of which is which, and also if you create your content around the concept of "selling" the reality of the pain and problems your market has. That way when you run promotions, you have a strong impression in your audience that you not only understand their fears and frustrations, but they will assume you also know how to guide them towards their desires. And then you just charge them for each time you give them something that will help them move in that direction.
	Fair warning: It's possible I'm arguing with you because I have nothing better to do. Read and subscribe to more freaky mind control marketing stuff at my blog: http://ColinTheriot.com Join me for my FREE, LIVE chat show - Thursdays - 7PM Eastern on http://TalkMarketingNow.com

11-06-2009, 12:57 PM	#12
Hesaidblissfully Advanced Warrior Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: , , USA. Posts: 717 Thanks: 33 Thanked 109 Times in 85 Posts	Re: Kern vs. Brunson What I've seen a lot of people do is have their paid product be tied into their free products in such a way that you don't NEED to purchase the paid product to get results, but the paid product makes the process a lot faster or easier. For example, you send out a video to your list that shows them how effective review sites can be and how to research them and set them up. You genuinely give them enough information in the free video that they could take that and run with it and make money. But then at the end of the video, you mention that you put together a collection of review site templates that you're selling. Or you might even offer a personal coaching program at a higher price point for a limited number of people where you'll work with them to set up and successfully run their review sites. This way, your free content has value in itself, but you offer a paid product that promises to help the viewer get the result they're looking for even faster.