A Serious, and Legitimate Question For All CB Publishers ... (FTC Stuff)

Gary_The_Ace · 11-07-2009, 09:50 PM

Hey all,

As a ClickBank Publisher, you're essentially giving ClickBank the right to buy your product at a wholesale cost ( determined by you ), and allowing them to re-sell the product through their merchant account, and their affiliate program ...

It's a pretty sweet deal for ClickBank when you really think about it ...

They get you to create the product, you recruit affiliates, you write the sales copy, and they allow you to join their network ...

It's the third part I'm wondering about, in light of the new FTC rules. You write the sales copy ...

Since ClickBank is technically the seller of the product, and you wrote the sales copy ... now, I can't imagine that ClickBank is just going to blindly trust that all of their publishers are aware of, and will comply with, the new FTC guidelines ...

Think about it for a minute.

If some random CB publisher makes claims in their copy, on in a testimonial, and those claims aren't compliant with the new FTC rules ... it's ClickBank who gets the fine, and ClickBank who lands itself in trouble.

Remember, they're the seller.

So, here's the question for everyone ...

Has ClickBank been in touch with any of you regarding specific claims on your website, or have they made any adjustments to policy that I'm missing?

It seems that they're in one of the worst positions out there in regards to the new FTC guidelines ... and short of having an attorney on staff to manually review each and every sales page, piece of marketing material, and all changes made to those pages ... they're exposing themselves to a heck of a lot of risk.

If I were them, I'd be running some type of system that checks all sales letters for any, and all changes ... and if any are detected, I'd disable the product in question. It's just not worth the risk.

Meaning, let's say you realize that you used "their" instead of "there" somewhere in the copy. Well, technically that's a change to the sales page, and even though it would likely be an insignificant change in 99.9% of cases ... what about that 1 case in one-thousand that it's not? Are they willing to "trust" their publishers to that degree?

That being said, what's their alternative?

If they're the seller, they're liable for the copy that appears on your sales page ... and I'd think they don't have too many options.

They either one ... require that all copy be approved through them before going live, and then, require that any changes be re-approved. ( I'd think they'd have to charge to cover the cost if they do so )

Or two, they just let it ride, and keep their fingers crossed.

Any thoughts, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks & Good Luck,
Gary Ambrose

P.S. If you're a CB publisher, and you haven't put any thought into changes they might be forced to make ... that's what this thread is all about, making you do a little thinking. We're going to be forced to comply, and until we hear from CB, and they come up with some kind of safety net ... you better buckle up, and get ready for a bumpy ride.

If I were them, I'd have already started the process of manual reviews, and would disable ALL products in the marketplace ( and ones that don't appear in the marketplace ), until they were approved an in compliance based on the opinion of a qualified FTC attorney.

Ron Douglas · 11-07-2009, 09:56 PM

Gary, very good point about Clickbank being the seller. However, I still think you will be liable as the owner of the website. Their links ultimately redirect back to your URL.

I've been a publisher and vendor with them for a long time and I haven't heard anything from them about the new policy. I'm actually surprised being that it takes effect in December.

I've heard from other Networks like Azoogle but not from Clickbank. That leads me to believe that they're not as liable as we might think.

Gary_The_Ace · 11-07-2009, 09:58 PM

Hey Ron,

I disagree ... they are the seller, it's processed through their merchant account, subject to their terms, and they're responsible for the transaction ... and in the eyes of the law, that'd make them liable for the copy. ( I think? )

G

Dan C. Rinnert · 11-07-2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary_The_Ace

Since ClickBank is technically the seller of the product, and you wrote the sales copy ... now, I can't imagine that ClickBank is just going to blindly trust that all of their publishers are aware of, and will comply with, the new FTC guidelines ...

They did with the existing FTC guidelines. It's not like the FTC never had guidelines before; all they've done is revised and created new ones.

I just had a product approved this week and, before approval, they sent me an eMail with the URL of the FTC's new guidelines, and asked that I review it to make sure my sales page is in compliance.

But, before approval, ClickBank requires you to post a disclaimer on your sales and thank you page, as they did before the new FTC rules. I would imagine that the disclaimer has been checked by their lawyers that it protects them.

Ron Douglas · 11-07-2009, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary_The_Ace

Hey Ron,

I disagree ... they are the seller, it's processed through their merchant account, subject to their terms, and they're responsible for the transaction ... and in the eyes of the law, that'd make them liable for the copy. ( I think? )

G

Maybe so. It's really a good question for Clickbank, the FTC, and a lawyer.

I actually hope that you're right.

Gary_The_Ace · 11-07-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

They did with the existing FTC guidelines. It's not like the FTC never had guidelines before; all they've done is revised and created new ones.

I just had a product approved this week and, before approval, they sent me an eMail with the URL of the FTC's new guidelines, and asked that I review it to make sure my sales page is in compliance.

But, before approval, ClickBank requires you to post a disclaimer on your sales and thank you page, as they did before the new FTC rules. I would imagine that the disclaimer has been checked by their lawyers that it protects them.

That sounds SUPER RISKY to me ...

The old FTC rules basically allowed you to say anything, as long as you put "Results Not Typical" below it ... and CB isn't exactly a small fish. They'd make a solid example for the FTC.

G

mikefilsaime · 11-07-2009, 11:13 PM

ClickBank has shut down many sites before that they felt were trouble for them. The entire email balsters. And I have seen them give people problems for false GET RICH QUICK. We just don't hear too much about it.

In light of the FTC, I am sure they are on this pretty good to protect themselves. Curious what others that know more than I do have to day on the legal end of it.

Mike

Ron Douglas · 11-07-2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikefilsaime

ClickBank has shut down many sites before that they felt were trouble for them. The entire email balsters. And I have seen them give people problems for false GET RICH QUICK. We just don't hear too much about it.

In light of the FTC, I am sure they are on this pretty good to protect themselves. Curious what others that know more than I do have to day on the legal end of it.

Mike

Good point Mike. Have you had to do anything special with PayDotCom.com?

I guess PDC is more of a payment facilitator and marketplace than a reseller.

Ron Douglas · 11-07-2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary_The_Ace

Hey Ron,

I disagree ... they are the seller, it's processed through their merchant account, subject to their terms, and they're responsible for the transaction ... and in the eyes of the law, that'd make them liable for the copy. ( I think? )

G

Gary, I see a lot of sales page with this disclaimer on them:

"ClickBank is a registered trademark of Keynetics Inc., a Delaware corporation. sitename.com is not affiliated with Keynetics Inc. in any way, nor does Keynetics Inc. sponsor or approve any sitename.com product. Keynetics Inc. expresses no opinion as to the correctness of any of the statements made by sitename.com in the materials on this Webpage."

What's your take on that?

danhughes · 11-07-2009, 11:35 PM

I'd be surprised if Clickbank could be held liable. They really are only processing the payments as they don't recruit the affiliates or have a central marketplace. In that respect, they are a lot like PayPal.

Think about online gambling in the US. As far as I know, it has always been illegal. The only way it was ever stopped was by specifically making it illegal for Visa / Mastercard et al to process payments. That in effect shows that prior to the law, they were not responsible.

Given I live in the US and like many of us am subject to the new laws, I hope that Clickbank are liable. That would give US publishers a level playing field. One of my concerns at this point is that publishers in other countries will use this to their advantage.

Gary_The_Ace · 11-08-2009, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Douglas

Gary, I see a lot of sales page with this disclaimer on them:

"ClickBank is a registered trademark of Keynetics Inc., a Delaware corporation. sitename.com is not affiliated with Keynetics Inc. in any way, nor does Keynetics Inc. sponsor or approve any sitename.com product. Keynetics Inc. expresses no opinion as to the correctness of any of the statements made by sitename.com in the materials on this Webpage."

What's your take on that?

Well, I guess this could be similar to an advertiser making claims on TV, then a person going into a Walmart and purchasing the product through Walmart ... would Walmart be to blame, or could they be held liable for the claims of the product creator?

I'm not really sure, but my guess would be that if Walmart knew the product creation was making false, or misleading claims ... and they turned a blind eye, maybe the could be liable?

Who knows ...

G

11-07-2009, 09:50 PM	#1
Gary_The_Ace Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: , , USA. Posts: 920 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	A Serious, and Legitimate Question For All CB Publishers ... (FTC Stuff) Hey all, As a ClickBank Publisher, you're essentially giving ClickBank the right to buy your product at a wholesale cost ( determined by you ), and allowing them to re-sell the product through their merchant account, and their affiliate program ... It's a pretty sweet deal for ClickBank when you really think about it ... They get you to create the product, you recruit affiliates, you write the sales copy, and they allow you to join their network ... It's the third part I'm wondering about, in light of the new FTC rules. You write the sales copy ... Since ClickBank is technically the seller of the product, and you wrote the sales copy ... now, I can't imagine that ClickBank is just going to blindly trust that all of their publishers are aware of, and will comply with, the new FTC guidelines ... Think about it for a minute. If some random CB publisher makes claims in their copy, on in a testimonial, and those claims aren't compliant with the new FTC rules ... it's ClickBank who gets the fine, and ClickBank who lands itself in trouble. Remember, they're the seller. So, here's the question for everyone ... Has ClickBank been in touch with any of you regarding specific claims on your website, or have they made any adjustments to policy that I'm missing? It seems that they're in one of the worst positions out there in regards to the new FTC guidelines ... and short of having an attorney on staff to manually review each and every sales page, piece of marketing material, and all changes made to those pages ... they're exposing themselves to a heck of a lot of risk. If I were them, I'd be running some type of system that checks all sales letters for any, and all changes ... and if any are detected, I'd disable the product in question. It's just not worth the risk. Meaning, let's say you realize that you used "their" instead of "there" somewhere in the copy. Well, technically that's a change to the sales page, and even though it would likely be an insignificant change in 99.9% of cases ... what about that 1 case in one-thousand that it's not? Are they willing to "trust" their publishers to that degree? That being said, what's their alternative? If they're the seller, they're liable for the copy that appears on your sales page ... and I'd think they don't have too many options. They either one ... require that all copy be approved through them before going live, and then, require that any changes be re-approved. ( I'd think they'd have to charge to cover the cost if they do so ) Or two, they just let it ride, and keep their fingers crossed. Any thoughts, I'd love to hear them. Thanks & Good Luck, Gary Ambrose P.S. If you're a CB publisher, and you haven't put any thought into changes they might be forced to make ... that's what this thread is all about, making you do a little thinking. We're going to be forced to comply, and until we hear from CB, and they come up with some kind of safety net ... you better buckle up, and get ready for a bumpy ride. If I were them, I'd have already started the process of manual reviews, and would disable ALL products in the marketplace ( and ones that don't appear in the marketplace ), until they were approved an in compliance based on the opinion of a qualified FTC attorney.
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11-07-2009, 09:56 PM	#2
Ron Douglas Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 1,945 Thanks: 242 Thanked 539 Times in 120 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: A Serious, and Legitimate Question For All CB Publishers ... (FTC Stuff) Gary, very good point about Clickbank being the seller. However, I still think you will be liable as the owner of the website. Their links ultimately redirect back to your URL. I've been a publisher and vendor with them for a long time and I haven't heard anything from them about the new policy. I'm actually surprised being that it takes effect in December. I've heard from other Networks like Azoogle but not from Clickbank. That leads me to believe that they're not as liable as we might think.
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11-07-2009, 09:58 PM	#3
Gary_The_Ace Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: , , USA. Posts: 920 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 4 Posts	Re: A Serious, and Legitimate Question For All CB Publishers ... (FTC Stuff) Hey Ron, I disagree ... they are the seller, it's processed through their merchant account, subject to their terms, and they're responsible for the transaction ... and in the eyes of the law, that'd make them liable for the copy. ( I think? ) G
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11-07-2009, 11:13 PM	#7
mikefilsaime Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Long Islan, NY , USA. Posts: 1,241 Thanks: 6 Thanked 171 Times in 21 Posts Social Networking	Re: A Serious, and Legitimate Question For All CB Publishers ... (FTC Stuff) ClickBank has shut down many sites before that they felt were trouble for them. The entire email balsters. And I have seen them give people problems for false GET RICH QUICK. We just don't hear too much about it. In light of the FTC, I am sure they are on this pretty good to protect themselves. Curious what others that know more than I do have to day on the legal end of it. Mike
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11-07-2009, 11:35 PM	#10
danhughes Bullsh*t Vigilante War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cary, NC, USA. Posts: 110 Thanks: 10 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: A Serious, and Legitimate Question For All CB Publishers ... (FTC Stuff) I'd be surprised if Clickbank could be held liable. They really are only processing the payments as they don't recruit the affiliates or have a central marketplace. In that respect, they are a lot like PayPal. Think about online gambling in the US. As far as I know, it has always been illegal. The only way it was ever stopped was by specifically making it illegal for Visa / Mastercard et al to process payments. That in effect shows that prior to the law, they were not responsible. Given I live in the US and like many of us am subject to the new laws, I hope that Clickbank are liable. That would give US publishers a level playing field. One of my concerns at this point is that publishers in other countries will use this to their advantage.
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