PayPal has become the GAME CHANGER - PayDotCom Will Change Soon

[mikefilsaime]

Guys,

I will give you a link below that will change EVERYTHING in marketing with
affiliate programs as we know.

PayPal has done the x.com developers conference. I sent 2 people from
my company to this.

There is so much to explain I simply can not tell you all in this thread

BUT HERE IS WHAT WILL AFFECT US and why it is so DAMN GOOD!

Basically, PayPal is allowing developers to create micro payment
marketplaces like Itunes that takes 1 payment that the buyer sees
and then sends the payments to MULTIPLE PAYMENTS like the developer
and the marketplace owner and the affiliate then sent the person to
the marketplace.

Let me explain how this will change EVERYTHING not only for
paydotcom, but for EVERY AFFILIATE software that upgrades their
software API like Amember or BFM when using only PayPal as
a payment choice.

AFFILIATES NOW GET PAID INSTANTLY in the background.

Let me show you how this will work at PAYDOTCOM and how
other paypal sites can do this too. The PDC will be $3 and
the affiliate pay out is 50% on the $47 sale.

So the affiliates sends traffic to YOUR site using PayDtoCom.
The buyer buys the $47 product and goes through PayPal.

The buyer sees 1 price of $47 to the buyer.

In the background the money is instantly sent as.
$22 to Seller
$22 to Affiliate
$3 to PayDotCom

What this means is this will be a game changer.

(PDC could become the seller like clickbank and send the money in the
background as follows as well, but then we would have to deal with refunds
and as I see it now but have to confirm, this will not be necessary, We
are diving HARD into this code now.)

Bottom line, PayPal has done about 20 other things like this that will
make it hard for anyone to consider using a merchant account again.

(of course we are subject to the evils of paypal and high volume. but
this dev conference basically showed how they are ready to take over
by a factod of x 10)

YES! This is GREAT news for PayDotCom. As now our affiliates are paid
SAME DAY which helps with adwords etc. Imagine, getting paid at POINT
OF SALE as an affiliate and the buyer never sees this happen!

PayDotCom Now has an incredible advantage for sellers that want
happy affiliates.

Affiliates will be happy that they get paid ON THE SPOT and do not have
to WAIT to in some case worry about dealing with a vendor that FLAKES.

Also in terms of AFFILIATE FRAUD this is great too. B/C the refund will
take back the money from the affiliate too! Imagine what this can do
to the CPA industry that is flooded with fraud.

But ALSO not just PDC, but Amember, custom software, BFM software,
and $7 scripts can ALL be updated by the developers with the new
API calls to allow this to happen.

I have no idea if PDC can do this in 1 week ot 60 days but rest assured we
will do it ASAP.

Guys, welcome to the NEW GAME CHANGER. This is very good for ALL OF US.

Check out thus paypal presentation for x.com their new developers network!

Adaptive_Payments

Thanks,

Mike Filsaime

[Tony Dean]

"Also in terms of AFFILIATE FRAUD this is great too. B/C the refund will
take back the money from the affiliate too! Imagine what this can do
to the CPA industry that is flooded with fraud."


Because affliliates get paid much later with cpa networks, it's quite easy to take back the commission.
So how would this affect "affiliate fraud"?

[pcpupil]

Thanks for the update.Just recently sighned up with PDC.
Been on your list for quite a while.
Ill be checking in to PDC in a few weeks.

[entry]

Originally Posted by mikefilsaime

Guys,

I will give you a link below that will change EVERYTHING in marketing with
affiliate programs as we know.

PayPal has done the x.com developers conference. I sent 2 people from
my company to this.

There is so much to explain I simply can not tell you all in this thread

BUT HERE IS WHAT WILL AFFECT US and why it is so DAMN GOOD!

Basically, PayPal is allowing developers to create micro payment
marketplaces like Itunes that takes 1 payment that the buyer sees
and then sends the payments to MULTIPLE PAYMENTS like the developer
and the marketplace owner and the affiliate then sent the person to
the marketplace.

Let me explain how this will change EVERYTHING not only for
paydotcom, but for EVERY AFFILIATE software that upgrades their
software API like Amember or BFM when using only PayPal as
a payment choice.

AFFILIATES NOW GET PAID INSTANTLY in the background.

Let me show you how this will work at PAYDOTCOM and how
other paypal sites can do this too. The PDC will be $3 and
the affiliate pay out is 50% on the $47 sale.

So the affiliates sends traffic to YOUR site using PayDtoCom.
The buyer buys the $47 product and goes through PayPal.

The buyer sees 1 price of $47 to the buyer.

In the background the money is instantly sent as.
$22 to Buyer
$22 to Affiliate
$3 to PayDotCom

What this means is this will be a game changer.

(PDC could become the seller like clickbank and send the money in the
background as follows as well, but then we would have to deal with refunds
and as I see it now but have to confirm, this will not be necessary, We
are diving HARD into this code now.)

Bottom line, PayPal has done about 20 other things like this that will
make it hard for anyone to consider using a merchant account again.

(of course we are subject to the evils of paypal and high volume. but
this dev conference basically showed how they are ready to take over
by a factod of x 10)

YES! This is GREAT news for PayDotCom. As now our affiliates are paid
SAME DAY which helps with adwords etc. Imagine, getting paid at POINT
OF SALE as an affiliate and the buyer never sees this happen!

PayDotCom Now has an incredible advantage for sellers that want
happy affiliates.

Affiliates will be happy that they get paid ON THE SPOT and do not have
to WAIT to in some case worry about dealing with a vendor that FLAKES.

Also in terms of AFFILIATE FRAUD this is great too. B/C the refund will
take back the money from the affiliate too! Imagine what this can do
to the CPA industry that is flooded with fraud.

But ALSO not just PDC, but Amember, custom software, BFM software,
and $7 scripts can ALL be updated by the developers with the new
API calls to allow this to happen.

I have no idea if PDC can do this in 1 week ot 60 days but rest assured we
will do it ASAP.

Guys, welcome to the NEW GAME CHANGER. This is very good for ALL OF US.

Check out thus paypal presentation for x.com their new developers network!

Adaptive_Payments

Thanks,

Mike Filsaime

Are you the real mikefilsaime?

i was reading your physical report last week on my bed "6 figure secrets" (the black binded one)- where you give Gold nuggets of information. Great report.... and great nuggets. its great to have the privilege to say that your report is good, to yourself... on this forum. In away you are famous lol.

how many subscribers do you have in total ?

Hope you are fine.... and see you around.

[mikefilsaime]

Originally Posted by Tony Dean

"Also in terms of AFFILIATE FRAUD this is great too. B/C the refund will
take back the money from the affiliate too! Imagine what this can do
to the CPA industry that is flooded with fraud."


Because affiliates get paid much later with cpa networks, it's quite easy to take back the commission.
So how would this affect "affiliate fraud"?

In the CPA Networks, the affiliate is paid in 7 days with no chargeback. So many scam affiliates use 1 x gift cards to buy a $7 product to get paid $80 from the network, They get paid and the rebill never goes through as it is not a real customer. (and many other things like that.)

So if affiliates can get chraged back when the vendor does a refund, they can not "steal" these commissions.

*** But don't let that take you away from the REAL BENEFIT of the thread. That was just a side note

Mike

[samstephens]

Hi Mike,

Great to hear! I remember when they mentioned this a year or two (?) ago, so it's great to see it's all happening!

cheers
Sam

[ExtraB]

Super information. Thanks!

[Daniel Brock]

It's about time! I wondered why they hadn't worked on it earlier.

Sure beats having to do the alternating commission thing.

[mikeyman120]

Hey Mike,

As you said in your post:
"AFFILIATES NOW GET PAID INSTANTLY in the background."

This would be awesome and definitely would be a game changer. If I didn't have to pay affiliates and they could get paid instantly I think you can give Clickbank a run for its money.

Mike

[Allan Rich]

Theres going to be a lot of companies/people who are going to make bank on paypal's API, will definitely change a lot of things.

Thanks for the insight

[JeffLam]

Simply awesome for affiliate marketing now.

But wait, some confusion I have:

1) Since the payout is given immediately to the affiliate, what if the buyer wants a refund? The refund is also taken back from the seller AND affiliate account? (Oh, and what about the $3 from PDC)?

[Greg Jacobs]

It would have to be turnkey BULLETPROOF integrated somehow to automatically disperse payments and avoid the pitfall of affiliates draining their PP account before the refund period.

perhaps the API has a sort of time-delayed disbursement which can then be integrated with our internal tracking to announce credit of the sale to the affiliate and then it shows up 30 days later as a payout in PP. (basicly letting PP hold the funds against refunds..... lol)

me thinks this would be the only bulletproof way and judging by paypals forward thinking, would most likely be possible (just guessing without having delved into the code)

[JeffLam]

Hmm Greg, your way is possible..but that would simply defeat this 'game changer' feature as this feature is to allow affiliates to be paid immediately into their paypal accounts!

Well, I can see how the fraud will work out now though:

1) Fraud signs up as affiliate
2) Fraud buys though own affiliate link
3) Fraud gets half the commission paid to his account
4) Fraud, if tries to refund product, will simply get the money back from his commission plus seller's account.

Am I right?

[maksym]

Thanks a lot for this great information! Glad to see that you are back to this forum.

My question is when are you going to use this new system at PDC?

[entry]

Originally Posted by entry

Are you the real mikefilsaime?

i was reading your physical report last week on my bed "6 figure secrets" (the black binded one)- where you give Gold nuggets of information. Great report.... and great nuggets. its great to have the privilege to say that your report is good, to yourself... on this forum. In away you are famous lol.

how many subscribers do you have in total ?

Hope you are fine.... and see you around.

Dont the rich marketers reply to their subscribers, or even say hello back?

especially the ones who have purchased from them?

(infact it would be great to have a Private message from you Mike.... please sort it out- it would be like an autograph! and try and send me a cool personal message )

[Harvey Segal]

Originally Posted by maksym

My question is when are you going to use this new system at PDC?

Originally Posted by entry

Dont the rich marketers reply to their subscribers, or even say hello back?

especially the ones who have purchased from them?

Come on Mike.

Get this system working right now and reply to all these posts

Stop slacking.

Harvey

[Emily Meeks]

Instant payout to affiliates... hmmm... considering all a particular company's missing affiliate sales, this may mean bad news to one particular company... >:P

[Greg Jacobs]

Originally Posted by JeffLam

Hmm Greg, your way is possible..but that would simply defeat this 'game changer' feature as this feature is to allow affiliates to be paid immediately into their paypal accounts!

Well, I can see how the fraud will work out now though:

1) Fraud signs up as affiliate
2) Fraud buys though own affiliate link
3) Fraud gets half the commission paid to his account
4) Fraud, if tries to refund product, will simply get the money back from his commission plus seller's account.

Am I right?

Yes, something of the sorts. This would be the obvious way.
And even though PP would have ways to thwart this, at the end of the day, the merchant would be responsible because in my experience PP's general policy is even if you get defrauded, they apologize, but you are still responsible for the fund.

Thus after the cycle is totally complete, the merchant would ultimately be liable for fraudulent affiliates


Also have to take into account honest affiliates who just drain their PP account and then a refund happens. Who is liable then?


I would be intrested to hear from some serious users or the creator of RAP which does a 1 by 1 sale split with the affilaite. I am not sure if this method is "sealed and approved" by PP or just merely ignored/tolerated for now since the scale is small as it jimmys up on a similar lines what PP is offering now.

[Steve Crooks]

It really is good news for affiliates but I am also slightly confused about refunds and affiliates. If the affiliates get paid immediately how will that money be recovered when refund requests come in? Of course you could try requesting the money back from the affiliates but I would imagine most would not honour that request. What will happen then? Will the merchants have to compensate the affiliate's part of the refund? If this is the case then I can see the benefits to affiliates but certainly not to merchants.

[MichaelHiles]

All really good stuff Mike... but there's the real issue of PayPal still being subject to their flake out status as a payment processor, wholly subject to whatever interpretation of terms and services that some individual within their organization might impose. If I construct my business around a specific solution like them, and they crap out on me like the myriad of horror stories that continue to pervade the market, I have no other options. However, if I construct my business on a shopping cart platform, and a 3rd party payment gateway, I can always interchange banks and gateways. I'm in control of my business... not letting it be held hostage by some beast of a company that might stomp me out of existence with no recourse.

[Kurt]

I'm guessing Paypal will use some type of hold or reserve on these split type payments, where 10-20% is held back before the money is accessible to account for refunds.

[samstephens]

I've just done some initial testing, and it looks like it may not be as transparent as say Clickbank, for example.

It seems (and there may be another way, this is just initial testing) that when you make a payment like this, say you're spending $10, it will list $5 to person1@example.com, and $5 to person2@example.com. Total: $10.

Not sure if this will lead to confusion for newer people.

And like I said, they may be a way around it, this is just my initial thoughts and test results.

Anyway, very interesting!

cheers
Sam

[Steve Peters Benn]

Hiya Mike,

I take it, that this will all figure into PayGlide as well? I hope so - fantastic design, really fantastic.

Your move to a service software provide couldn't come soon enough, constantly amazed at the amount of services you offer and this whole Paypal change makes everything even more exciting!

Any chance is there going to be an IM awards category for payment systems ? you are looking like a clear winner as you are totally ahead of the game.

[Ralf Skirr]

Wow, that is awesome.
Thanks for the info, it can have a huge impact.

Ralf

[rapidscc]

Originally Posted by moneysoapbox

Instant payout to affiliates... hmmm... considering all a particular company's missing affiliate sales, this may mean bad news to one particular company... >:P

Lol Yeah Emily, It would give that company something to worry about..I just hope they improve soon with all these plus the issues about them..

Omar

[lakshaybehl]

Question for Mike...

You have always emphasized the importance and power of one click upsells and sales funnels. Does PDC have these things? As a seller can I simply upload a bunch of products and have them arranged in a funnel?

If not, will this be done anytime soon now that Paypal is opening up their API?

Thanks
-Lakshay

[Gary K]

Great info as always Mike. If you are new to Mike's methods (as some indicate in the thread) stick to him like glue. He's a master.

(and yes, I own many of his products)

Have an awesome day!

Gary

[ericdpangilinan]

Hey Mike.

Thanks for the heads up.

Really generous of you to share cutting edge info to the forum.

Thanks!!!

[Gary McCaffrey]

The only issue I seen when I read up on this new API a few months back was that for an 'adaptive payment' to be made, the sender has to have a PayPal account. They can't just use their credit/debit like they can with a regular PayPal payment.

[PAP]

Wouw that is great news.

I actually thought paypal wouldn't come up with new stuff now when they almost own the market for online payment processors

[jazbo]

Interesting read, I will be following the potential of this one closely.

[Steven Wagenheim]

As a PDC affiliate for the few people I know and trust, this is great news.
Now I know I'll be getting paid as soon as the sale comes in.

When exactly is this going into effect or is that info in the link you've
provided? Sorry, haven't had the time to read it yet but will get to it first
chance I get.

Anyway, thanks for the heads up on this.

I'm actually excited about it and these days, that's saying a lot.

[DannyLucas]

Thank you for your post and I only hope that you are correct in your analysis of things getting better. It is truly amazing to me how the internet has level the playing field of David verses Goliath.

[milan]

Originally Posted by mikefilsaime

....but then we would have to deal with refunds
and as I see it now but have to confirm, this will not be necessary, We
are diving HARD into this code now.)...

Could somebody confirm how do the refunds work? Who can initiate the refund?

[Frank Donovan]

Regarding the refund issue..

One advantage of an alternating instant commission system, such as provided by RAP (Rapid Action Profits), is that the affiliate is paid the full (100%) commission for any given product - e.g. with a 50% commission rate, this means getting paid for 100% of every other sale - so, at all times, it's clear who's responsible for the sale. It's either the product owner or the affiliate - never both.

The way this PDC proposal has been described, it appears that the product owner and the affiliate will share each sale. This suggests that all refunds will have to come from both parties. In other words, the customer would see a refund being split between two sources. Potentially confusing, but possibly not a major problem, depending on how it's explained to the buyer.

However, this could impact on the ability of the seller to keep the original transaction "seamless" i.e. not involving any third party as, presumably, the returns procedure would need to be described at the point of sale.

I accept that I'm assuming how returns would be managed under the proposed system, based on Mike's outline.

As an aside, this development might also afford the opportunity for product owners to manage their affiliates more effectively than through CB. Perhaps there could be a way in which affiliates were actually pre-approved by the product owners. Negligent or fraudulent affiliates could then be barred from further participation.

That would give PDC or any other CB competitor an attractive USP.


Frank

[Gary McCaffrey]

The new API can split a payment between many receivers, but it can appear as only 1 payment to the customer. If a refund is made, it is just made once and the API deducts from all receivers invisibly in the background.

The only issue, as I said is that your customer MUST have a PayPal account. Which will affect sales.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Frank Donovan

Regarding the refund issue..

One advantage of an alternating instant commission system, such as provided by RAP (Rapid Action Profits), is that the affiliate is paid the full (100%) commission for any given product - e.g. with a 50% commission rate, this means getting paid for 100% of every other sale - so, at all times, it's clear who's responsible for the sale. It's either the product owner or the affiliate - never both.

The way this PDC proposal has been described, it appears that the product owner and the affiliate will share each sale. This suggests that all refunds will have to come from both parties. In other words, the customer would see a refund being split between two sources. Potentially confusing, but possibly not a major problem, depending on how it's explained to the buyer.

However, this could impact on the ability of the seller to keep the original transaction "seamless" i.e. not involving any third party as, presumably, the returns procedure would need to be described at the point of sale.

I accept that I'm assuming how returns would be managed under the proposed system, based on Mike's outline.

As an aside, this development might also afford the opportunity for product owners to manage their affiliates more effectively than through CB. Perhaps there could be a way in which affiliates were actually pre-approved by the product owners. Negligent or fraudulent affiliates could then be barred from further participation.

That would give PDC or any other CB competitor an attractive USP.


Frank

Frank, here's the way I see the refund issue.

As a product creator, I am personally responsible for refunds anyway.
Somebody wants one, they put in a request, I issue the refund. So as
an affiliate, it's just the same process only I'm selling somebody else's
product. It's a little more work, but the upside is I get paid right away.

So for me, the refund issue isn't a big deal.

[Frank Donovan]

Hi Gary

Originally Posted by Gary McCaffrey

The new API can split a payment between many receivers, but it can appear as only 1 payment to the customer. If a refund is made, it is just made once and the API deducts from all receivers invisibly in the background.

In that case, it's going to be interesting to see how PayPal manage the initial commission payments and whether a percentage will be withheld pending refunds.


Hi Steven

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

As a product creator, I am personally responsible for refunds anyway.
Somebody wants one, they put in a request, I issue the refund. So as
an affiliate, it's just the same process only I'm selling somebody else's
product. It's a little more work, but the upside is I get paid right away.

And if product creators had the facility to pre-approve affiliates, you'd be exactly the kind of responsible seller they'd want.


Frank

[Gene Pimentel]

Fantastic news Mike. Thank you so much for your insights on this.

[Holland]

Hi Mike

Thanks for sharing this with the community. I will look into this too, wasn't really aware of the info you provided.

Yours sincerely
Angelina

[milan]

Frank,
thank you for your response.
However:

My question was who can initiate/do a refund? My guess is that either the affiliate or the product owner can do a (complete) refund. That's what makes sense to me, but I'm just guessing here.
I've watched the Paypal video and they don't talk about this (that video is just an overview).

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by milan

Frank,
thank you for your response.
However:

My question was who can initiate/do a refund? My guess is that either the affiliate or the product owner can do a (complete) refund. That's what makes sense to me, but I'm just guessing here.
I've watched the Paypal video and they don't talk about this (that video is just an overview).

Logically, any refund would have to be a full refund.

If a customer asks for their money back, regardless of whether they
contacted the merchant or the affiliate, they'd certainly expect ALL their
money to be returned. Thus any true refund in the traditional sense
would have to refund from both the merchant and affiliate accounts.

Make sense?

[Sid Hale]

Gary,

Originally Posted by Gary McCaffrey

The only issue, as I said is that your customer MUST have a PayPal account. Which will affect sales.

The Adaptive Payments documentation for v1.3 says that allowed funding sources for the payment are:

• ECHECK – Electronic check
• BALANCE – PayPal account balance
• CREDITCARD – Credit card

and...
Paypal account can be created at the time of purchase.

[milan]

Steven, again, my question is who can DO the refunds. That is my question, nothing more nothing less.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Logically, any refund would have to be a full refund.

See what you mean but: that's not correct. Partial refunds happen too, and Paypal supports partial refunds (since always). That raises new questions with the new API, but let's forget that for a while...

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by milan

Steven, again, my question is who can DO the refunds. That is my question, nothing more nothing less.



See what you mean but: that's not correct. Partial refunds happen too, and Paypal supports partial refunds (since always). That raises new questions with the new API, but let's forget that for a while...

Okay, how's this for an answer?

Ask PayPal.

Anything said here (unless they know for certain) is just speculation.

I would assume that anybody can initiate a refund request. If I, as a
seller, just want to arbitrarily go into any sale I've made through PayPal
and issue a refund (the link is right there under each sale's info) I can
do it.

But like I said, ask PayPal because I'd only be guessing along with
everybody else here unless they have specifically verified inside info.

[Sid Hale]

Hi Milan,

Originally Posted by milan

Steven, again, my question is who can DO the refunds. That is my question, nothing more nothing less.

The merchant (assuming he did the API call) can authorize a full refund (using the API call), "from all receivers associated with a payment by specifying the payment’s payment key or tracking ID"

The quoted statement above is from Paypal's Adaptive Payments developer documentation ( a much more reliable source than the speculation you may find on this, or any other, forum).

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by samstephens

I've just done some initial testing, and it looks like it may not be as transparent as say Clickbank, for example.

It seems (and there may be another way, this is just initial testing) that when you make a payment like this, say you're spending $10, it will list $5 to person1@example.com, and $5 to person2@example.com. Total: $10.

Not sure if this will lead to confusion for newer people.

And like I said, they may be a way around it, this is just my initial thoughts and test results.

Anyway, very interesting!

cheers
Sam

Yeah, it is a proven fact that listing unknown names increases chargebacks. MANY insist that you specify upfront that THEY will charge, so they can avoid this.

PAYPAL COULD, of course, easily avoid that, but they should have a MAIN account, and show everything tied to that.

I noticed the change for multiple payments, but hadn't considered this application. On the SURFACE, it sounds promising, but it DOES create a LOT of new questions. Just off the top of my head, these include:

What notifications will be given out concerning repurcussions, such as chargebacks?
How will notifications to the customer and others be sent out?
What if one of the accounts has a problem, like it is banned?
Will the non-main accounts need to have any special level of account?
What if one of the accounts can't be charged back? Even a 20% hold is no good if you have 60% refunds.

Forgive me if some of these have been answered in the doc. As I said, I didn't delve too deeply. I WOULD have asked about "who pays the fees", but I think I remember seeing a setting for that in the docs.

Apparently, Sam's test indicates they may not have thought that through well.

And what of those that can't use paypal?

Steve

[Ashley Gable]

Originally Posted by NathanFalkner

Two important issues...

- Administratively dealing with 1099's for productive affiliates.

- Computing, collecting, and remitting relevant sales/VA taxes
to the appropriate governmental agency.

...that apparently remain unaffected by these changes?

So are you saying that the product owner will no longer have to treat an affiliate as an "employee"?

I would think that seeing as the customer is paying each of us seperatly, whether he/she knows it or not, that we wouldnt. Right? It would just be a purchase.

If that is the case then I love it. I absolutely hate dealing with tax forms and the like, any way to lessen that and I am happy!

But one other thing, if if is paypal that is doing this, then why would we need paydotcom?

I am honestly asking.

What makes using paydotcom better than using just paypal?

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by AshleyAA

What makes using paydotcom better than using just paypal?

Because just using PayPal isn't going to bring you in any affiliates.

Remember, PayPal isn't an affiliate program itself. With PDC, your product
gets listed in the marketplace and thus has the potential to bring in
affiliates.

Naturally, you can run your own affiliate program if you like, but you'll
still have to go and recruit your own affiliates and without your product
being listed in some marketplace (PDC, Clickbank, whoever) this makes the
job a little harder.

[Sid Hale]

Thanks Sam,

Originally Posted by samstephens

It seems (and there may be another way, this is just initial testing) that when you make a payment like this, say you're spending $10, it will list $5 to person1@example.com, and $5 to person2@example.com. Total: $10.

...but did you test parallel payments or chained payments?

From your results, I would guess parallel, but would suspect that chained payments are more appropriate for handling instant affiliate commissions.