Offline Question

Ethan F. · 11-09-2009, 04:50 AM

Hey,

If one was planning to tackle the offline business world and bring them traffic from the interwebs, will they need to sign some form of "scope of work" agreement or can one get by without it?

Ethan

Ralf Skirr · 11-09-2009, 05:36 AM

You definitely need some agreement.

Major points:

- liability, make sure you don't take any liability for their content, their legal text and the media they give you.

- how and when to pay. make sure you get advance payments, at least partial, and then monthly payments. some clients have the bad habit of delaying projects for many months. so if you can make monthly invoices, that's fine.

- scope of work, yes, customers tend to bring in new ideas and requirements after the project is started. Then you need to make sure you can ask for extra money for the extra work.

There's more of course, but those are the 3 most important things.

Ralf

Keith Boisvert · 11-09-2009, 06:25 AM

You COULD do an assignment without a scope of work, but you are setting yourself up for a potential disaster by not using one.

As Ralf mentioned above, there are many issues that can come up, all of which could have an impact on you getting paid.

The scope itself is something I have all of my clients sign, as it outlines what they want and what I am going to do to achieve it. It never fails, somewhere during the project they want to "add" something in, and I always can refer to the initial scope, and create a "change order" which I also submit to them for approval. This way there are no surprises, and you don't do work they wont pay for in the end because they didn't know that more work was going to actually cost more $$.

And just as Ralf, I get a deposit up front(50%,which is listed in the contract), 25% when I am half done, and the balance on completion.(again, all listed out).

No one likes surprises, so the scope certainly, when done right can eliminate them.

Keith

Frank Murphy · 11-09-2009, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Boisvert

You COULD do an assignment without a scope of work, but you are setting yourself up for a potential disaster by not using one.

As Ralf mentioned above, there are many issues that can come up, all of which could have an impact on you getting paid.

The scope itself is something I have all of my clients sign, as it outlines what they want and what I am going to do to achieve it. It never fails, somewhere during the project they want to "add" something in, and I always can refer to the initial scope, and create a "change order" which I also submit to them for approval. This way there are no surprises, and you don't do work they wont pay for in the end because they didn't know that more work was going to actually cost more $$.

And just as Ralf, I get a deposit up front(50%,which is listed in the contract), 25% when I am half done, and the balance on completion.(again, all listed out).

No one likes surprises, so the scope certainly, when done right can eliminate them.

Keith

I totally agree, a scope of work is critical when it comes to marketing to offline businesses. I have done up a few scripts related to the theme. Feel free to download them.

DogScout · 11-09-2009, 07:01 AM

For tiny businesses that I 'target', I actually usually do handshake deals! If it is $500/mo at no time can I lose even if they stop paying. I might not be paid a lot because much of the actual work is in the front of the time period, but I A) believe in helping tiny businesses, many of which cannot pay 50% upfront and B) I prefer to do business with people I trust (and trust me). If they flake, I can hand over their info and say adios.
If they WANT a contract, it will contain less than I will actually do. I have yet to talk to an off-line business that knows every piece of the puzzle. I have seen contracts from other SEO website building 'experts' that just amaze me. (I saw one that seemed to think meta keywords were a HUGE part of what they were going to do. Lol. That contract contained no off page work and was so vague about what on page work they were going to do, the contract was essentially worthless to the business. I walked in, did a handahake deal for more than they were charging. (He'll get 3x what he pays for, because that is how I do things.)

Ralf Skirr · 11-09-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady NaNa

I have done up a few scripts related to the theme. Feel free to download them.

Thanks for the offer, where would we find them to download?

Ralf

Ethan F. · 11-09-2009, 01:24 PM

Thank you very much for your input guys. I read through each post and took something from it. Now after I get these legalities in place, I will be ready to take massive action. And I will be downloading your manifesto Lady NaNa

All the best,

Ethan

joshril · 11-09-2009, 01:28 PM

Here are several free and a few paid "scope of work" agreements. You can find all sorts of contracts on this site.

scope of work - docstoc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethan F.

Thank you very much for your input guys. I read through each post and took something from it. Now after I get these legalities in place, I will be ready to take massive action. And I will be downloading your manifesto Lady NaNa

All the best,

Ethan

TommyBussey · 11-09-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr

Thanks for the offer, where would we find them to download?

Ralf

They're in her signature...the "Manifesto" link

Frank Murphy · 11-10-2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr

Thanks for the offer, where would we find them to download?

Ralf

Oh, it is somewhere below my post in this thread..lol..

L.James · 11-10-2009, 12:09 PM

my question is what kind of invoices do you all use?

Hugh · 11-10-2009, 03:08 PM

Like Mark, I do handshake deals. However, later with check in hand,
I email the client with "just to keep my mind clear, we discussed blah,
blah..... Did I forget something? Just want to be sure we are on the same
page."

Not really a legal document, but shows a commitment.

Hugh

DogScout · 11-10-2009, 03:10 PM

If the client whats an invoice for their records, just google 'free invoice templates', add your info, save a copy for future use then fill out and email to them.

DogScout · 11-10-2009, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Like Mark, I do handshake deals. However, later with check in hand,
I email the client with "just to keep my mind clear, we discussed blah,
blah..... Did I forget something? Just want to be sure we are on the same
page."

Not really a legal document, but shows a commitment.

Hugh

I do that to, usually around 8:45 PM on the nearest Saturday, opening with": "I was thinking about your job." or working on your job" along with a few questions I invariably have and that shows "RUST NEVER SLEEPS!"

lol

The invoice is for their accountant or if they have a bookkeeper that insists everything be in black and white.

cityofangels · 12-30-2009, 05:24 AM

Agreements are absolutely necessary. Ralf is right on the money. Agreements need to spell out everything so there are no misunderstandings. It happens. You need to have them just in case something happens. Rather safe than sorry.

globalpro · 12-30-2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady NaNa

Oh, it is somewhere below my post in this thread..lol..

I must be missing it, I don't see a link

Thanks,

John

Nic Lynn · 12-30-2009, 10:26 AM

Yes, yes, yes you need a SOW. If for nothing else, just to help protect your own time and workload. Even with a signed SOW, I'll occasionally get a client that demands, say, 4 website updates per month instead of the 1 we documented. Pulling out the SOW usually fixes that (and sometimes adds to a higher fee as I accommodate their "extra" needs). Without a SOW and just a verbal agreement it can get into a he said/she said that either hurts your customer relationship, forces you to walk away or forces a compromise that costs you time or money.

11-09-2009, 04:50 AM	#1
Ethan F. The "Movie Voice" Dude Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 137 Thanks: 6 Thanked 29 Times in 19 Posts Contact Info	Offline Question Hey, If one was planning to tackle the offline business world and bring them traffic from the interwebs, will they need to sign some form of "scope of work" agreement or can one get by without it? Ethan

11-09-2009, 05:36 AM	#2
Ralf Skirr Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Germany & Thailand Posts: 1,269 Thanks: 78 Thanked 138 Times in 104 Posts Social Networking	Re: Offline Question You definitely need some agreement. Major points: - liability, make sure you don't take any liability for their content, their legal text and the media they give you. - how and when to pay. make sure you get advance payments, at least partial, and then monthly payments. some clients have the bad habit of delaying projects for many months. so if you can make monthly invoices, that's fine. - scope of work, yes, customers tend to bring in new ideas and requirements after the project is started. Then you need to make sure you can ask for extra money for the extra work. There's more of course, but those are the 3 most important things. Ralf
	Google Plus anyone? Meet me at http://gplus.to/RalfSkirr. How to get a '+1 button' or 'Follow Me at Google+ button' for your website.

11-09-2009, 06:25 AM	#3
Keith Boisvert Blue Collar Marketer War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Taxachusetts Posts: 2,036 Blog Entries: 7 Thanks: 167 Thanked 253 Times in 93 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Offline Question You COULD do an assignment without a scope of work, but you are setting yourself up for a potential disaster by not using one. As Ralf mentioned above, there are many issues that can come up, all of which could have an impact on you getting paid. The scope itself is something I have all of my clients sign, as it outlines what they want and what I am going to do to achieve it. It never fails, somewhere during the project they want to "add" something in, and I always can refer to the initial scope, and create a "change order" which I also submit to them for approval. This way there are no surprises, and you don't do work they wont pay for in the end because they didn't know that more work was going to actually cost more $$. And just as Ralf, I get a deposit up front(50%,which is listed in the contract), 25% when I am half done, and the balance on completion.(again, all listed out). No one likes surprises, so the scope certainly, when done right can eliminate them. Keith
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11-09-2009, 07:01 AM	#5
DogScout Self Unemployed War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 2,343 Thanks: 697 Thanked 628 Times in 373 Posts Social Networking	Re: Offline Question For tiny businesses that I 'target', I actually usually do handshake deals! If it is $500/mo at no time can I lose even if they stop paying. I might not be paid a lot because much of the actual work is in the front of the time period, but I A) believe in helping tiny businesses, many of which cannot pay 50% upfront and B) I prefer to do business with people I trust (and trust me). If they flake, I can hand over their info and say adios. If they WANT a contract, it will contain less than I will actually do. I have yet to talk to an off-line business that knows every piece of the puzzle. I have seen contracts from other SEO website building 'experts' that just amaze me. (I saw one that seemed to think meta keywords were a HUGE part of what they were going to do. Lol. That contract contained no off page work and was so vague about what on page work they were going to do, the contract was essentially worthless to the business. I walked in, did a handahake deal for more than they were charging. (He'll get 3x what he pays for, because that is how I do things.)
	Otis's Blog (Own The Internet, Silly) Breast Cancer Support - Breast Cancer Information Paint Shop Tubes - Free images - Free Graphics - Free Photos - 3D - Poser Tubes - Scrap Kits

11-09-2009, 01:24 PM	#7
Ethan F. The "Movie Voice" Dude Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 137 Thanks: 6 Thanked 29 Times in 19 Posts Contact Info	Re: Offline Question Thank you very much for your input guys. I read through each post and took something from it. Now after I get these legalities in place, I will be ready to take massive action. And I will be downloading your manifesto Lady NaNa All the best, Ethan

11-10-2009, 12:09 PM	#11
L.James ProfitExplosions.net War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 63 Thanks: 19 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Contact Info	Re: Offline Question my question is what kind of invoices do you all use?

11-10-2009, 03:08 PM	#12
Hugh HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: , Florida , USA. Posts: 490 Thanks: 136 Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts	Re: Offline Question Like Mark, I do handshake deals. However, later with check in hand, I email the client with "just to keep my mind clear, we discussed blah, blah..... Did I forget something? Just want to be sure we are on the same page." Not really a legal document, but shows a commitment. Hugh
	"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson "Some see private enterprise as a predatory target to be shot, others as a cow to be milked, but few are those who see it as a sturdy horse pulling the wagon." -- Winston Churchill

11-10-2009, 03:10 PM	#13
DogScout Self Unemployed War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 2,343 Thanks: 697 Thanked 628 Times in 373 Posts Social Networking	Re: Offline Question If the client whats an invoice for their records, just google 'free invoice templates', add your info, save a copy for future use then fill out and email to them.
	Otis's Blog (Own The Internet, Silly) Breast Cancer Support - Breast Cancer Information Paint Shop Tubes - Free images - Free Graphics - Free Photos - 3D - Poser Tubes - Scrap Kits

12-30-2009, 05:24 AM	#15
cityofangels Active Warrior Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 57 Thanks: 21 Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Offline Question Agreements are absolutely necessary. Ralf is right on the money. Agreements need to spell out everything so there are no misunderstandings. It happens. You need to have them just in case something happens. Rather safe than sorry.

12-30-2009, 10:26 AM	#17
Nic Lynn Internet Junkie War Room Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 369 Thanks: 49 Thanked 72 Times in 47 Posts	Re: Offline Question Yes, yes, yes you need a SOW. If for nothing else, just to help protect your own time and workload. Even with a signed SOW, I'll occasionally get a client that demands, say, 4 website updates per month instead of the 1 we documented. Pulling out the SOW usually fixes that (and sometimes adds to a higher fee as I accommodate their "extra" needs). Without a SOW and just a verbal agreement it can get into a he said/she said that either hurts your customer relationship, forces you to walk away or forces a compromise that costs you time or money.
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