What if you can't prove it?

Daniel Brock · 11-09-2009, 02:59 PM

What's up everyone?

I am trying to re-write my sales letters for one of my products but I have run into a dilemma.

Basically I have made over $700,000 selling web hosting but I can only prove $450,000 of it through my current billing software.

The other portion of it was done through an older system that I used years ago which I no longer have access to.

In my tag lines, do you all think I should claim that I have made $700k selling hosting and only back up the $450k with proof and just say something like 'my older billing software has processed another $250k...'

Or do you all think I should just stick with saying I made $450k selling web hosting and here is my proof.

Just wondering if only being able to back up 60% of my claim is enough proof....

Thanks!
Daniel

AyaImmortal · 11-09-2009, 03:01 PM

I think that is enough proof. Most people cant even prove that much!

Jeremy Kelsall · 11-09-2009, 03:02 PM

If you have to prove it....don't write it.

Scott Ames · 11-09-2009, 03:05 PM

You could use it as a damaging admission:

"I Made over $700,000 selling web hosting but I can only prove $450,000 of it. My Bad"

"Oh, but $250,000 that I can't prove spent just as well as the $450,000 I can prove "

marciayudkin · 11-09-2009, 03:07 PM

Daniel,

I know this is a minority view, but I believe "visual proof" is over-rated. A lot of people (like me) don't believe earnings screenshots since they're very easily faked. It's actually a lot harder to fake testimonials or a client list and therefore, I think you should just state the truth and add as many credibility boosters on your page as you can, especially testimonials, press coverage and stuff from other third-parties.

Marcia Yudkin

Doug Stewart Online · 11-10-2009, 06:05 AM

Hey Daniel

I agree with Marcia so rather than doing an earnings screenshot, how about using Camtasia and do a quick video showing your earnings in your billing software. That way you can show much more proof.

All the best
Doug

CliveG · 11-10-2009, 08:04 AM

Does anyone actually believe these "proofs" any more?

jamesjsanderson · 11-10-2009, 08:17 AM

Hi Daniel,

In my estimation, that is a fantastic problem to have!

The answer is to simply test it. See which pulls better and go with it.

Really, if you can show proof of 450K then people are not going to care if you can produce pics of the other 250. 450K is more than most people will make in 2 decades. They will listen.

On the other hand, if you are doing a launch, you can use this as a great credibility booster in your pre-launch. It just depends on your strategy.

Good luck to you!

Michael Oksa · 11-10-2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CliveG

Does anyone actually believe these "proofs" any more?

Yes, Clive, they do.

BUT, a lot of it depends on the market. Most of us Warriors understand how easy it is to fake screenshots, the average person may not even know that this faking exists.

Also, just because they CAN be faked, doesn't mean they are ALWAYS faked.

Ultimately, it's up to each marketer to decide whether or not to use screenshots for proof, and to decide the best way to support their claims.

@ Jeremy - I know what you're saying. However, in a way ALL sales letters are trying to prove something. You have to prove to the customer that they should choose you.

That being said, too many marketers spend too much time trying to prove things in the sense you're talking about. If someone is spending the bulk of their copywriting time trying to prove a huge claim, then I would say their focus is misplaced. Spend the time writing a compelling offer, not trying to explain yourself.

All the best,
Michael

lakshaybehl · 11-10-2009, 09:01 AM

Even if I do believe you made $700K, it doen't necessarily make me want to buy something from you. Building a realtionship of mutual value and respect, and if possible fun, is much more powerful than a screenshot.

If Frank Kern says I made a million in an hour.

And you know what I'd say to him... Big Deal?

-Lakshay

gravtex · 11-10-2009, 09:19 AM

I like Scott's advice here - prove what you can and say you unfortunately can't prove the other revenue since you used and older system.

Gary

James Clark · 11-10-2009, 12:15 PM

You don't have to prove anything. If you speak to them in the correct tone and language that's all you need.

Jimmy.

MichaelHiles · 11-10-2009, 12:17 PM

Last time I checked, GoDaddy didn't "prove" their earnings as a registrar or host provider. They just offered the service... take it or leave it.

Jonathan 2.0 · 11-10-2009, 01:17 PM

I've made over $700,000 selling web hosting.

That really isn't as much as you may think considering some people make 10-times that much. At this point, I suppose you want me to produce one of those screen shots "proving" how much I make. Well, you're right. I'm not going to.

Why? Put simply, if you don't believe me, then I don't want to do business with you. Stop reading and click the back button. You've seen my video - I'm a real person.
And, I have a personal policy of not dealing with sceptical-minded people. The people who go far in this business - the ones who are ready for my product - are the ones who are open-minded and optimistic.

Now, if you're one of them, here's the good news ...

--

You could do something like that.

However I've just realized something. Kind of like what Eben Pagan would call "The Elusive Obvious." It's not the income claim that people don't believe. It's the person making the claim. (Duh, right?)

So my advice is the work on building trust because the more they believe and trust you the more they're going to believe the claim.

The most effective way of doing that today would be with video. I would go so far as to say that a professionally produced video presentation would be enough for them to believe your income claims.

Peace.

DogScout · 11-10-2009, 10:17 PM

Scan your tax returns

808glass · 11-10-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marciayudkin

I know this is a minority view, but I believe "visual proof" is over-rated. A lot of people (like me) don't believe earnings screenshots since they're very easily faked. It's actually a lot harder to fake testimonials or a client list and therefore, I think you should just state the truth and add as many credibility boosters on your page as you can, especially testimonials, press coverage and stuff from other third-parties.

Agreed! I believe pretty much everything is fake these days (I've worked with graphics designers and video producers). Especially screenshots! The only "proof" I would believe would have to come from a credible source. Since I don't know you, you are not a credible source. I think this is generally the direction the big time IM players will be taking over the coming years. Examples of highly credible sources:

- Friends and Family (good luck figuring how to tap that)
- Authority figures with a reputation or brand to protect (legitimate businesses/experts that I can speak with regarding your product)
- Masses (everyone saying the same thing can't be wrong...)

But then again, you are saying you did make 700k, maybe I should just believe you and take the chance? Hey your only selling your product for cheap anyways, right? I mean you look trustworthy and look there's a picture of you standing by a Ferrari! Ah... the life of a marketer.

Daniel Brock · 11-11-2009, 02:45 AM

Thank you everyone for your responses!

The reason why I wanted to prove it is because I really do believe it will help with conversions, not to mention that I can throw in a little bit of pre-sale in my video while I am proving my income.

I appreciate the responses

-Daniel

Greg Brierley · 11-11-2009, 03:15 AM

Isn't there new FTC guidelines about this sort of thing?

Greg

Daniel E Taylor · 11-11-2009, 03:42 AM

Anyone who honestly believes showing PROOF
(Whether Video or ScreenShot) that he earned
at least $450,000 isn't effective needs to go hit the books.

Even the most basic understanding in marketing and human
pyschology should tell you how powerful and effective that is.

I'm not saying it's everything, but from my tests (With and Without screenshots)
it will boost sales quite significantly.

To those people saying "I don't believe screenshots and most other people
don't".

How would you know this? Because you thought of it in your head
and you just assume it's true for everyone....

Another example of bad marketing advice given from people who obviously
haven't tested.

Prove what you can.

If you say you made $750,000 and you show $450,000 believe me
they'll take your word for the other $300k. The point is you are just
someone talking out your butt.

Anyone telling you not to use as much proof in every form possible
is someone I def wouldn't take MARKETING advance from. Maybe dancing
lessons or something.

Daniel

mark z · 11-11-2009, 08:12 AM

Personally, I think well documented $450k is way much powerful than partial proof of $700k.

I mean, hey, isn`t that decent amount of money anyway?

There are so many "slippery" areas in every sales later, while you trying to gain their trust, that making additional potentially suspicious point (of something actually real) is certainly unnecessary. It is not worth it.

11-09-2009, 02:59 PM	#1
Daniel Brock Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,628 Thanks: 169 Thanked 934 Times in 254 Posts Contact Info	What if you can't prove it? What's up everyone? I am trying to re-write my sales letters for one of my products but I have run into a dilemma. Basically I have made over $700,000 selling web hosting but I can only prove $450,000 of it through my current billing software. The other portion of it was done through an older system that I used years ago which I no longer have access to. In my tag lines, do you all think I should claim that I have made $700k selling hosting and only back up the $450k with proof and just say something like 'my older billing software has processed another $250k...' Or do you all think I should just stick with saying I made $450k selling web hosting and here is my proof. Just wondering if only being able to back up 60% of my claim is enough proof.... Thanks! Daniel
	Clickbank #1 Best Seller: The Deadbeat Super Affiliate. Click here to learn how to make money online in your bath robe and gym socks!

11-09-2009, 03:01 PM	#2
AyaImmortal Chronicles of Joe Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Fayetteville PA Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Social Networking Contact Info	Re: What if you can't prove it? I think that is enough proof. Most people cant even prove that much!
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11-09-2009, 03:02 PM	#3
Jeremy Kelsall Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: , , USA. Posts: 6,797 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 1,050 Thanked 3,673 Times in 1,257 Posts	Re: What if you can't prove it? If you have to prove it....don't write it.
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11-09-2009, 03:05 PM	#4
Scott Ames Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: West of Rockies Posts: 5,556 Thanks: 363 Thanked 665 Times in 325 Posts	Re: What if you can't prove it? You could use it as a damaging admission: "I Made over $700,000 selling web hosting but I can only prove $450,000 of it. My Bad" "Oh, but $250,000 that I can't prove spent just as well as the $450,000 I can prove "
	Action is the foundational key to all success. - Pablo Picasso

11-09-2009, 03:07 PM	#5
marciayudkin Marketing Mentor War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Maui and Massachusetts Posts: 1,141 Thanks: 110 Thanked 548 Times in 265 Posts Social Networking	Re: What if you can't prove it? Daniel, I know this is a minority view, but I believe "visual proof" is over-rated. A lot of people (like me) don't believe earnings screenshots since they're very easily faked. It's actually a lot harder to fake testimonials or a client list and therefore, I think you should just state the truth and add as many credibility boosters on your page as you can, especially testimonials, press coverage and stuff from other third-parties. Marcia Yudkin
	Author, Meatier Marketing Copy, available in paperback, Kindle, Nook, Audible audiobook “There are few genuine thought leaders in the field of copywriting. Marcia Yudkin is one of them. The strategies she presents in Meatier Marketing Copy are all easy to understand and implement, yet profoundly insightful. If you want to write marketing copy that sizzles and sells, this book is a must-read.” - Steve Slaunwhite, Author, Start & Run a Copywriting Business, Co-Author, The Wealthy Freelancer

11-10-2009, 06:05 AM	#6
Doug Stewart Online Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 25 Thanks: 2 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts Social Networking	Re: What if you can't prove it? Hey Daniel I agree with Marcia so rather than doing an earnings screenshot, how about using Camtasia and do a quick video showing your earnings in your billing software. That way you can show much more proof. All the best Doug
	Create Your First Pro Business Blog- Free ebook with step by step instructions - www.dougstewartonline.com

11-10-2009, 08:04 AM	#7
CliveG Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom Posts: 656 Thanks: 14 Thanked 47 Times in 46 Posts	Re: What if you can't prove it? Does anyone actually believe these "proofs" any more?
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11-10-2009, 08:17 AM	#8
jamesjsanderson Article Writing Monster Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Social Networking	Re: What if you can't prove it? Hi Daniel, In my estimation, that is a fantastic problem to have! The answer is to simply test it. See which pulls better and go with it. Really, if you can show proof of 450K then people are not going to care if you can produce pics of the other 250. 450K is more than most people will make in 2 decades. They will listen. On the other hand, if you are doing a launch, you can use this as a great credibility booster in your pre-launch. It just depends on your strategy. Good luck to you!

11-10-2009, 09:01 AM	#10
lakshaybehl Business Man War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Globe Trotter from Delhi, India Posts: 1,963 Blog Entries: 12 Thanks: 266 Thanked 459 Times in 145 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: What if you can't prove it? Even if I do believe you made $700K, it doen't necessarily make me want to buy something from you. Building a realtionship of mutual value and respect, and if possible fun, is much more powerful than a screenshot. If Frank Kern says I made a million in an hour. And you know what I'd say to him... Big Deal? -Lakshay
	WARNING EXPLICIT: This is ugly... and this is the distilled truth ~~Traffic And Conversion - Lakshay Behl's Blog \|\| Myspace \|\| Facebook \|\| Tweet Me~~

11-10-2009, 09:19 AM	#11
gravtex Gary Ruplinger War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 268 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 21 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: What if you can't prove it? I like Scott's advice here - prove what you can and say you unfortunately can't prove the other revenue since you used and older system. Gary

11-10-2009, 12:15 PM	#12
James Clark Advanced Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: USA Posts: 618 Thanks: 25 Thanked 86 Times in 74 Posts Social Networking	Re: What if you can't prove it? You don't have to prove anything. If you speak to them in the correct tone and language that's all you need. Jimmy.
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11-10-2009, 12:17 PM	#13
MichaelHiles Battle Scarred Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,563 Thanks: 665 Thanked 1,780 Times in 744 Posts Social Networking	Re: What if you can't prove it? Last time I checked, GoDaddy didn't "prove" their earnings as a registrar or host provider. They just offered the service... take it or leave it.
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11-10-2009, 01:17 PM	#14
Jonathan 2.0 Spiritual Warrior War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,165 Blog Entries: 12 Thanks: 557 Thanked 312 Times in 230 Posts	Re: What if you can't prove it? I've made over $700,000 selling web hosting. That really isn't as much as you may think considering some people make 10-times that much. At this point, I suppose you want me to produce one of those screen shots "proving" how much I make. Well, you're right. I'm not going to. Why? Put simply, if you don't believe me, then I don't want to do business with you. Stop reading and click the back button. You've seen my video - I'm a real person. And, I have a personal policy of not dealing with sceptical-minded people. The people who go far in this business - the ones who are ready for my product - are the ones who are open-minded and optimistic. Now, if you're one of them, here's the good news ... -- You could do something like that. However I've just realized something. Kind of like what Eben Pagan would call "The Elusive Obvious." It's not the income claim that people don't believe. It's the person making the claim. (Duh, right?) So my advice is the work on building trust because the more they believe and trust you the more they're going to believe the claim. The most effective way of doing that today would be with video. I would go so far as to say that a professionally produced video presentation would be enough for them to believe your income claims. Peace.
	Jonathan 2.0 "10 Simple, Yet Powerful, Ways To Becoming More Successful ..." Please Help Save Kim Winfrey's Life

11-10-2009, 10:17 PM	#15
DogScout Self Unemployed War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 2,343 Thanks: 697 Thanked 628 Times in 373 Posts Social Networking	Re: What if you can't prove it? Scan your tax returns
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11-11-2009, 02:45 AM	#17
Daniel Brock Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,628 Thanks: 169 Thanked 934 Times in 254 Posts Contact Info	Re: What if you can't prove it? Thank you everyone for your responses! The reason why I wanted to prove it is because I really do believe it will help with conversions, not to mention that I can throw in a little bit of pre-sale in my video while I am proving my income. I appreciate the responses -Daniel
	Clickbank #1 Best Seller: The Deadbeat Super Affiliate. Click here to learn how to make money online in your bath robe and gym socks!

11-11-2009, 03:15 AM	#18
Greg Brierley Warrior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Canberra Australia Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: What if you can't prove it? Isn't there new FTC guidelines about this sort of thing? Greg

11-11-2009, 03:42 AM	#19
Daniel E Taylor Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: , , . Posts: 1,516 Thanks: 6 Thanked 607 Times in 92 Posts Contact Info	Re: What if you can't prove it? Anyone who honestly believes showing PROOF (Whether Video or ScreenShot) that he earned at least $450,000 isn't effective needs to go hit the books. Even the most basic understanding in marketing and human pyschology should tell you how powerful and effective that is. I'm not saying it's everything, but from my tests (With and Without screenshots) it will boost sales quite significantly. To those people saying "I don't believe screenshots and most other people don't". How would you know this? Because you thought of it in your head and you just assume it's true for everyone.... Another example of bad marketing advice given from people who obviously haven't tested. Prove what you can. If you say you made $750,000 and you show $450,000 believe me they'll take your word for the other $300k. The point is you are just someone talking out your butt. Anyone telling you not to use as much proof in every form possible is someone I def wouldn't take MARKETING advance from. Maybe dancing lessons or something. Daniel
	Self Actualization is one's true purpose. Everything else is an illusion.

11-11-2009, 08:12 AM	#20
mark z Banned War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 226 Thanks: 19 Thanked 26 Times in 19 Posts	Re: What if you can't prove it? Personally, I think well documented $450k is way much powerful than partial proof of $700k. I mean, hey, isn`t that decent amount of money anyway? There are so many "slippery" areas in every sales later, while you trying to gain their trust, that making additional potentially suspicious point (of something actually real) is certainly unnecessary. It is not worth it.