Is Google Guilty of Self Serving or Personal Gain??

[A Bary]

Hello Warriors,

The last week, I noticed that youtube videos are ranking very high for many of the competitive search terms I'm working on..

These videos were around for a while now, and when I checked backlinks, I didn't find a big improvement of their backlinking profile, some of them with 15-20 links are beating sites with thousands of backlinks with for the same keyphrases...

All what happened is that, these youtube videos are just being pumped from 2nd, 3rd, or even 7th SERP to dominate the first 3 spots!

well, we all know that Google is making profits from Youtube videos, and highly watched videos were responsible for a raise in Google' stock value the last few months..

Now, do you think we are on a new trend of "self serving" or "personal gain" here?

Just wondering..

[childtalent]

i thought youtube is part of google universal search ?

[Michael Taylor]

That's right...with universal search, you'll see things pulled from their news, blogs, video, local, and ecommerce databases and whatever else they throw in there these days.

It takes up one of the slots on the results page, so from a purely SEO perspective you do stand less of a chance of showing up on page one.

However, don't look at this as getting shut out of page one. You can still fill that video slot if you make a video and it gets placed there. Same with any of the other universal search items.

Originally Posted by goldmind123

...when I checked backlinks, I didn't find a big improvement of their backlinking profile, some of them with 15-20 links are beating sites with thousands of backlinks with for the same keyphrases...

This is a good thing. If you can make a video that makes its way to these spots, that means less work ranking for this term.

And since when does any profit seeking corporation ever do anything from altruistic motives? Of course it's self-serving. It can't be anything other than that. And even if they sought you out and hand delivered a personal invitation to you to appear on page one for every search term you desire, they would still be doing so out of profit-seeking motives...somehow. Otherwise they wouldn't do such a thing. (And you notice they don't do such a thing.)

Please seek out the hallowed wisdom of Ayn Rand and behold the world bathed in new light.

[Quentin]

Last time I looked Google etc are businesses with share holders etc and can do what they like.

I think Michael has it right.

So many people seem to feel that companies like Paypal, google etc owe us but in actual fact they are providing the service.

Quentin

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by goldmind123

Now, do you think we are on a new trend of "self serving" or "personal gain" here?

Just wondering..

It's not a new trend, just a different iteration of the age-old seeking of the almighty dollar. Nothing wrong with that.

Knowing what's going on is one of the first steps to beating them at their own game. There are many marketers who don't even check what's going on with their site rankings. The oblivious ones will be left behind while you pull ahead.

All the best,
Michael

[A Bary]

Originally Posted by Quentin

Last time I looked Google etc are businesses with share holders etc and can do what they like.

I think Michael has it right.

So many people seem to feel that companies like Paypal, google etc owe us but in actual fact they are providing the service.

Quentin

Excuse me but I disagree with your idea

Google is a business with share holders, can't urge about the fact, but...

Since it has been out on 1998, they insist to raise the point that, their search engine is a FREE service, with the paid part being in adwords, not in the organic results..
So, controlling the organic search results in a self gain oriented way isn't something they can do freely (this is just a theory, and I don't confirm that they are doing this right now), and if they start to do this at any time, they should announce it to the public, that their search results are now oriented towards their own profits

[Slin]

I don't understand what you are saying, they are just making a profit.

There search engine is still a free service, they can set up the search engine however they want. They have never disclosed how it works anyway.

There is nothing wrong with them giving their own sites extra weight.

[A Bary]

Originally Posted by Slin

I don't understand what you are saying, they are just making a profit.

There search engine is still a free service, they can set up the search engine however they want. They have never disclosed how it works anyway.

There is nothing wrong with them giving their own sites extra weight.

NO THEY DON'T

They don't have the right to push their sites to the top for just being their sites, what I'm saying is that, if this is the case, they should disclose this to the public..

Microsoft gone on fire with the legal authorities for enforcing their windows operating systems users to use their browser IE...

Things aren't going this way, and Google isn't free to manipulate the cyber space for their own benefit...
Again, not saying this is what happening right now, just defending the theory

I do not see the problem here.. It is google's site to do with as they wish. We are their guest and there is nothing that says you will be indexed in the search results at all. As their guest you should consider yourself lucky.

With that said, there are other search engines and if you are just depending upon google then that is a huge mistake.

Also I would like to point out that there is no possible way to tell how many backlinks any site has. Those backlink programs are not 100% correct and the fact is in order for a program to check proper backlinks it would need to scan billions of sites ever second of every single day.. This is why it is impossible because no system can scan billions of sites constantly 24/7 ...

James

Originally Posted by goldmind123

NO THEY DON'T

They don't have the right to push their sites to the top for just being their sites, what I'm saying is that, if this is the case, they should disclose this to the public..

Microsoft gone on fire with the legal authorities for enforcing their windows operating systems users to use their browser IE...

Things aren't going this way, and Google isn't free to manipulate the cyber space for their own benefit...
Again, not saying this is what happening right now, just defending the theory

OMG!!! Yes they do have the right and as far as using Microsoft to compare here .. you are talking 2 totally different things.

If I want to put something on my site, I will because I own it.. Don't like it then do not visit. Same goes for anybody else that owns their own site. Next thing you know you will tell Allen to get rid of the ads on the forum because he has no right to put them there because you do not like them..

I have heard it all now... These threads as of late where people try to tell someone else how to run their own sites really need to stop.

James

[Slin]

Originally Posted by goldmind123

NO THEY DON'T

They don't have the right to push their sites to the top for just being their sites, what I'm saying is that, if this is the case, they should disclose this to the public..

Microsoft gone on fire with the legal authorities for enforcing their windows operating systems users to use their browser IE...

Things aren't going this way, and Google isn't free to manipulate the cyber space for their own benefit...
Again, not saying this is what happening right now, just defending the theory

And why not? I don't get it, Microsoft got in trouble in a completely different scenario, they were using their system to monopolize a completely different market.

Anyway, it's google's site, they can control how it works, I don't get what you are so worked up about.

[Intrepreneur]

I agree with James they are free to do what they want but I also don't agree with some of it because it takes out the "search engine" factor and replaces with "manipulated results in favour of house engine". A bit like gambling only the house tweak everything to their satisfaction (not as if they already don't but they could throw an extra few aces their direction when they feel like it).

I'm thinking the social search features we are all beginning to recognise will eventually balance the slef serving back in favour of content providers but we never know Google might add more personal gain results as they go along.

Still it is something to take advantage of as already mentioned on here because with a lot of it you can recognise a gap for taking top rankings with ease. Something which I throughly tested and found to be extremely effective. Especially where a result is returned and has a "view more reults from website name" below it.

For the future of Google I can see problems arising with how everything works. One I read yesterday being about how Google can't legally use our content in the way the do. Robert Murdoch being the one to bring the topic to the surface. BBC NEWS | Business | Murdoch may block Google searches

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by goldmind123

The last week, I noticed that youtube videos are ranking very high for many of the competitive search terms I'm working on..

The last I checked, Google has 100% unrestricted access to the logs of YouTube video access, and that added information is useful in matching results to queries.

Since Google really has very little information about most videos elsewhere, why is it surprising that their confidence level in YouTube videos is higher?

google also indexes other video sites too.. I guess nobody noticed that... I have videos showing on page 1 from other sites. It's called related information. If you want your listings to be better then might I suggest you also create a video and do mass distribution through a 100% free service TubeMogul.com | In-Depth Tracking, Analytics for Online Video | Web Video Syndication

James

[Michael Oksa]

Ah huh! I'm telling mom!

That's not fair! They can't do that! They're naughty.

Sorry, but this isn't grade school. If you don't like Google, or what they're doing, then don't use them. If enough people stop using them because they feel the results are not relevant, then the open marketplace will dictate what happens.

I understand you're miffed, but honestly, what can you do about it?

A. Get bent out of shape and argue with those who are offering solutions/different points of view.

B. Do something productive that will move your business forward.

Personally, I prefer option B.

All the best,
Michael

[TelegramSam]

Originally Posted by goldmind123

NO THEY DON'T

They don't have the right to push their sites to the top for just being their sites, what I'm saying is that, if this is the case, they should disclose this to the public..

Microsoft gone on fire with the legal authorities for enforcing their windows operating systems users to use their browser IE...

Things aren't going this way, and Google isn't free to manipulate the cyber space for their own benefit...
Again, not saying this is what happening right now, just defending the theory

If you don't like they way google does it, then your alternative is another search engine, or build one yourself.

If you feel so strongly against google, and want to protest, then just edit your robots.txt files and tell google to go away and stop indexing your sites.

Let us know if you are willing to do that.

Sam

[A Bary]

Why some people turned it to a conversation where I whining about Google and they started to defend Google where no defense is required?

First, I open the topic according to my observations of youtube video raising in search results without apparent reasons (the same video has been there for months and all of a sudden it's up to dominate the search results)

Second, I don't attack Google, I respect them,if there's one smart company in the history, I'll pick Google with no doubt, and this is not because they are cool guys, but because they built a model that has been followed by all other search engines.
The core of this model was always providing relevant useful search results to the users, they earned their reputation and users' trust according to this,

The business they control is so sensitive, the number one spot in the search results for some keywords worth (literally) billions in profits, when a company is in control of such a gigantic business, it should be responsible and clear.
Google states clearly that they will never accept money to push sites in the search results, despite the fact that there' re companies out there willing to pay millions for just a boost..

with this concept in mind, it's a common sense that they shouldn't boost there own sites for no logical reasons.

I don't try to arise flames around the biggest (and smartest) company in the world, it was a concern, I preferred to open for discussion, because simply, if any of these concerns turn to be true, and Google starts to give advantage in SE for their own sites, this will be a real nightmare, and probably will be a killer for this whole online business thing.

Those who say "if you don't like it leave the site" are just don't get it, and comparing this to Allen controlling his own forum is silly, because more or less, Allen is controlling his own forum, while Google is controlling THE WHOLE INTERNET SPACE, no matter how many people don't agree with this,,

I'm sorry if my OP didn't clarify what I meant from the beginning, and I wish people will take the conversation the way it meant to be in.

[A Bary]

Originally Posted by TelegramSam

If you don't like they way google does it, then your alternative is another search engine, or build one yourself.

If you feel so strongly against google, and want to protest, then just edit your robots.txt files and tell google to go away and stop indexing your sites.

Let us know if you are willing to do that.

Sam

Sam, you know I always respect your posts and I'm sorry for getting you on an opposite side of this conversation
Again, it's not about me pissed off with Google, it's more like a theoretical discussion:
-Does Google have the right to manipulate their search engine results to their own advantage? and if it happens someday and they decided to do so, how we should deal with such a situation?

[GarrieWilson]

Well, if Google is simply listing their properties first when possible and not because it's more relevant, they should have a disclaimer. Especially with the latest FTC rulings because they are recommending something AND earn from that recommendation.

And no, people do NOT have the right to put anything they want on their site.

[A Bary]

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Well, if Google is simply listing their properties first when possible and not because it's more relevant, they should have a disclaimer. Especially with the latest FTC rulings because they are recommending something AND earn from that recommendation.

And no, people do NOT have the right to put anything they want on their site.

Thanks, finally someone got what I mean

Originally Posted by goldmind123

Why some people turned it to a conversation where I whining about Google and they started to defend Google where no defense is required?

First, I open the topic according to my observations of youtube video raising in search results without apparent reasons (the same video has been there for months and all of a sudden it's up to dominate the search results)

Second, I don't attack Google, I respect them,if there's one smart company in the history, I'll pick Google with no doubt, and this is not because they are cool guys, but because they built a model that has been followed by all other search engines.
The core of this model was always providing relevant useful search results to the users, they earned their reputation and users' trust according to this,

The business they control is so sensitive, the number one spot in the search results for some keywords worth (literally) billions in profits, when a company is in control of such a gigantic business, it should be responsible and clear.
Google states clearly that they will never accept money to push sites in the search results, despite the fact that there' re companies out there willing to pay millions for just a boost..

with this concept in mind, it's a common sense that they shouldn't boost there own sites for no logical reasons.

I don't try to arise flames around the biggest (and smartest) company in the world, it was a concern, I preferred to open for discussion, because simply, if any of these concerns turn to be true, and Google starts to give advantage in SE for their own sites, this will be a real nightmare, and probably will be a killer for this whole online business thing.

Those who say "if you don't like it leave the site" are just don't get it, and comparing this to Allen controlling his own forum is silly, because more or less, Allen is controlling his own forum, while Google is controlling THE WHOLE INTERNET SPACE, no matter how many people don't agree with this,,

I'm sorry if my OP didn't clarify what I meant from the beginning, and I wish people will take the conversation the way it meant to be in.

The start of this thread is no different than others that complain about scribd.com, squidoo.com, facebook.com, ezinearticles.com, and etc has banned/closed my account.

Google including videos on search results is nothing new.. They have been doing this for a good long time and that even includes news and other topics of interest.

You got the response you got due to the tone of your post " Is Google Guilty of Self Serving or Personal Gain?? " And I agree with others, if it bothers you or you do not like it then there are other places to go. There is a billion ways to market and advertise a website.

Personally I am tired of threads complaining about how someone else runs their website. It has nothing to do with personal gain or self serving, the fact is it is their website to choose to do with what they feel fit.

Google is not controlling thye entire internet, they wish they could but sorry it will never happen. Google does have the right to control their own site though and if someone does not like that then go someplace else or start your own search engine.. It is that simple...

James

[GarrieWilson]

Another thing...

Google has built a reputation and trust on providing the best, most accurate results. If they start purposely displaying results that are not true, in favor of their properties, they could face legal issues.

Fraud.

[TelegramSam]

Originally Posted by goldmind123

Sam, you know I always respect your posts and I'm sorry for getting you on an opposite side of this conversation
Again, it's not about me pissed off with Google, it's more like a theoretical discussion:
-Does Google have the right to manipulate their search engine results to their own advantage? and if it happens someday and they decided to do so, how we should deal with such a situation?

Hi,

I apologise if I came across as rude and too blunt. I'm very sorry about that.

I understand where you are coming from, but at the end of the day, google are the trailblazers very often and they do their own thing in many ways, for better or for worse.

The only way I console myself with what they do and how they behave is that without them I would be much less wealthy and the internet would not be such a level playing field as it is. Even though that is changing ever faster.

I still believe that the majority of their decisions and actions are to provide a good customer service and to reward their shareholders.

Whether this is always the right thing is another matter.

Best wishes,

Sam

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by goldmind123

NO THEY DON'T

They don't have the right to push their sites to the top for just being their sites, what I'm saying is that, if this is the case, they should disclose this to the public..

Microsoft gone on fire with the legal authorities for enforcing their windows operating systems users to use their browser IE...

Things aren't going this way, and Google isn't free to manipulate the cyber space for their own benefit...

Pssst.....no one is forcing you to use Google.

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Another thing...

Google has built a reputation and trust on providing the best, most accurate results. If they start purposely displaying results that are not true, in favor of their properties, they could face legal issues.

Fraud.

"Best" and "most accurate" are arbitrary. They don't give the best, most accurate results now. Good luck with that lawsuit.

[tommygunn]

My answer to the OP is yes and here's why I think the trend is moving in that self serving direction more and more.

As soon as Google opened the door to public trade, it became an entity with one purpose. Everything Google does from here on, will have one purpose, whether it looks like it is serving that purpose or not... Make the share holders money.

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat

"Best" and "most accurate" are arbitrary. They don't give the best, most accurate results now. Good luck with that lawsuit.

It could be a criminal suit. But yes, it would be hard to prove but not impossible.

[Slin]

Originally Posted by GarrieWilson

Another thing...

Google has built a reputation and trust on providing the best, most accurate results. If they start purposely displaying results that are not true, in favor of their properties, they could face legal issues.

Fraud.

What do you define as the best results, huh?

Google has gained it's userbase because it was easy to use, fast, and spammers didn't control all of it's search results. (yahoo had a bit of a problem with that back in the day I think)

If Google thinks their own website is a better result then some other site, well then, more power to them!

What could you sue them for?

[Quentin]

Maybe you should read through their terms of service and responsibilities. Here is a very small sample which I think covers your question.

About Google’s services

We are constantly changing and improving our services. If you’re scared of change, this isn’t the place for you.

We hope that you will enjoy using our services, but we don’t make any specific promises about them being able to work wonders for you, or about their reliability or availability.

Some services contain secret sauce. The secret sauce is supposed to stay secret. Please don’t disclose our confidential information.

Google isn’t responsible for things that might happen to you as a consequence of your use of our services. Unfortunately, everything in life has some risk. We think the benefits are worth it.

Quentin

[Tom Harvey]

It is a publicly held company with a distinct profit motive.

Draw your own conclusions..

[GarrieWilson]

Originally Posted by Slin

What do you define as the best results, huh?

The desired result in the top 10 listing 98%. Of course results greatly depend on the users ability to know how to search.

Google has gained it's userbase because it was easy to use, fast, and spammers didn't control all of it's search results. (yahoo had a bit of a problem with that back in the day I think)

No, it gained because it's results are/where more accurate. The speed and usability was a bonus.

What could you sue them for?

I never said sue them. It seems people forget about criminal prosecution.

Now for an argumentative point: If a person could prove that Google was giving their site a lower rank simply because it competes w/ a Google property AND could prove damages - they might be able to win a civil suit. Of course I'm sure this is covered in the legal disclaimer. Which may or may not hold up.

I'll Google () for a criminal example of the type of things I am referring to later if time permits and I don't forget. Of course I already gave one that deals with the FCC.

[TelegramSam]

Who knows, in years to come there may be corruption charges against google, just like many large companies in the past.

Such as someone manipulating the search results internally for friends or other businesses for things such as weight loss, loans, insurance and other high traffic terms that are worth millions.

Then again that is what PPC is meant to be for etc...

Not sure they would want to risk their main source of income.

[JohnMcCabe]

There's one logical flaw in the original post that makes the whole thread just another IM 'hot stove league' session.

That's the supposition that a given video rose in the search results for no reason.

It would be more accurate to say that the video rose for no reason the OP could discern.

Big, big difference.

Another thing that came up in the conversation... I haven't been able to find anything directly attributable to Google about providing the "best, most useful" results, nor are the results a recommendation.

What you get are a list of pages that most closely fit your search query based on Google's algorithm of the moment and the available database. How useful those results might be depends in part on your skill in constructing a search query. It's up to you to determine the utility of a set of results.

Implying that Google, Inc. is somehow "guilty" of something based on one person's observation of one particular query/result set seems a little out there...

[Lisa Gergets]

I haven't read this thread in full, but my first reaction is that Google can't be self-serving or initiating personal gain because...Google is not a person, it's a business. As such, it accomplishes, very well, exactly what a business is supposed to accomplish. It makes money.