wav or mp3 for physical cds

14 years ago

G'day, Kevin.

I think you'll find that any CD player will play WAV files but not all will play MP3. What you do end up sacrificing is the amount of audio that will fit on the CD. WAV are about ten times larger in file size than MP3's.

Alex

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Mike Shain 14 years ago

At the risk of asking the obvious - what type of disc is it cd-r or cd-rw? CD-RW's will not play in regular cd players however they will play in computers.

The device you are playing the mp3 cd must be mp3 compatible. Most fairly new devices can handle it.

Good luck!

(edit was slow posting)
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TruWebPro

14 years ago

Wav is the default format for CD audio at 1444 kbps uncompressed audio. All .mp3, flac, and other audio codecs compress the audio into digital files that are not readable in older commercial CD players. For universal compatibility, you have to decompress your .mp3 back into .wav and burn your CD in commercial-player compatible format. Most CD burning software, like Nero, will do this for you in a single step if you select the right options.

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davtom

14 years ago

Be aware that you can't just dump some WAVs onto a data disc. The CD resulting from that will not play in most CD players.

A product such as Nero Burning Rom will enable you to master an audio CD, and you can use MP3s as the source if you like - it will convert them to Audio CD format for you.

WAV files encoded with 16 bits per sample, 2 channels and 44100 samples per second will give you the best results, though.

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MichaelHiles

14 years ago

Originally Posted by davtom

Be aware that you can't just dump some WAVs onto a data disc. The CD resulting from that will not play in most CD players.

A product such as Nero Burning Rom will enable you to master an audio CD, and you can use MP3s as the source if you like - it will convert them to Audio CD format for you.

WAV files encoded with 16 bits per sample, 2 channels and 44100 samples per second will give you the best results, though.

This.

CDDA is CD audio. This is the red book standard.

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Kevin AKA Hubcap

14 years ago

Hi Davtom

I was just about to dump some WAV files onto a disk.

Will Nero Toast 10 Titanium convert the files into Audio CD format?

Kevin

Originally Posted by davtom

Be aware that you can't just dump some WAVs onto a data disc. The CD resulting from that will not play in most CD players.

A product such as Nero Burning Rom will enable you to master an audio CD, and you can use MP3s as the source if you like - it will convert them to Audio CD format for you.

WAV files encoded with 16 bits per sample, 2 channels and 44100 samples per second will give you the best results, though.

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TruWebPro 14 years ago

Regardless of whether you are using Nero or Roxio (Toast 10 is a Roxio product) they are absolutely capable of converting any of the files you have mentioned into .wav and mastering a standard audio cd. It's one of their most basic functions.
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SurviveUnemployment

14 years ago

Neither. You need to burn it as audio. Wav and mp3 are both digital data files, not digital audio.

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TruWebPro

14 years ago

Originally Posted by SurviveUnemployment

Neither. You need to burn it as audio. Wav and mp3 are both digital data files, not digital audio.

.wav is the native (uncompressed) format for audio CDs. The gentleman was asking whether his software is capable of converting his .mp3 files back to .wav and mastering audio CDs that will be playable in older commercial CD players. It is.

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SurviveUnemployment

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TruWebPro

.wav is the native (uncompressed) format for audio CDs. The gentleman was asking whether his software is capable of converting his .mp3 files back to .wav and mastering audio CDs that will be playable in older commercial CD players. It is.

Well, I've mastered a lot of audio in my time, and I'm telling you right now that if you just copy a .wav file to a CD, it won't play in a CD player. It will play fine on a computer. You have to rip the .wav to cdda.

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TruWebPro

14 years ago

Originally Posted by SurviveUnemployment

Well, I've mastered a lot of audio in my time, and I'm telling you right now that if you just copy a .wav file to a CD, it won't play in a CD player. It will play fine on a computer. You have to rip the .wav to cdda.

And I would agree with you.

I wasn't being clear above, apparently. I was trying to point out that:

a.) uncompressed .wav is closer to the original cdda, hence better for mastering an audio cd, and

b.) if Kevin AKA Hubcap (or anyone else) wants to produce a CD that should be playable in ANY player, he needs to use his software to produce a true audio CD, not a data CD with a .wav file on it.

Sorry if I created any confusion. Can't believe this thread got so long over such a simple question.

Cheers,
Neil

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Istvan Horvath

14 years ago

OK, just for the future. (So that I won't make the same mistake)

The OP did not burn the CD - it was made by Kunaki.
So, the question is - what kind of file should you send/upload to them as the master - to get the right kind of audio CD?

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SageSound

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath

OK, just for the future. (So that I won't make the same mistake)

The OP did not burn the CD - it was made by Kunaki.
So, the question is - what kind of file should you send/upload to them as the master - to get the right kind of audio CD?

Kunaki just reproduces what they're given.

if you put WAV or MP3 files onto a CD, it's a DATA CD.

You need to burn an AUDIO CD first. When you're done, put it into a CD player to make sure it plays, IF that's what you want. Most CD players will NOT play DATA CDs that contain WAV files. Some will play DATA CDs that contain MP3 files.

If it plays in a random CD player, then it'll probably play in ANY CD player.

(Why do you think you cannot insert a stock audio CD into your CD-ROM drive on your computer and simply drag-n-drop the files to your computer? They're not data files! You need to run a "ripper" to convert them to WAV or MP3 or another audio format.)

Originally Posted by TruWebPro

.wav is the native (uncompressed) format for audio CDs.

This is not correct. Audio CDs conform to something called the "Red Book" standard, as mentioned earlier. The "native" format for the data on this media is called CDDA or "Compact Disk Digital Audio" format. There's only one set of parameters for this format: 2-channel, 44.1 KHz bit-rate, 16-bit data width.

A .WAV file is a type of DATA file encoded as PCM data (PCM -> Pulse-Code Modulation). It can have a variety of formats: 1- or 2-channels, 6000-192KHz bit rates, 16/20/24-bit data widths.

An .MP3 file is a type of DATA file encoded as MPEG-2 Layer-3 format. There are even more parameter variations than for WAV files.

You use Nero or Toast or whatever to take your WAV, AIFF, or MP3 files and convert them into CDDA format first, then burn them to the CD media. That conversion is usually done automatically by the software. BUT ... you MUST tell it that you want to burn an AUDIO CD, not a DATA CD to make it do that conversion.

HTH
-David

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TruWebPro 14 years ago

You're right of course, David: I shouldn't have used the term "native" when all I really meant was that it was uncompressed. But I think all this info goes way beyond what Kevin AKA Hubcap was trying to find out, which is just how to convert the disc he got into something that will play in every CD player (burn it as an audio CD, Kevin). Thanks for the clarification nonetheless.

Cheers,
Neil
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Online Bliss

14 years ago

Would anybody believe me if I told you I purchased one of
first CD burners ever in the early 90's for $4,500.00 and the
Blank discs were at least $35.00 a piece. It was a Marrantz/Phillips
pro audio machine with standard AES digital inputs and outputs and was very heavy.
You had to hit the pause button after every track because the auto record would always mess up. I had some very expensive coffee coasters. :rolleyes:

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Kevin AKA Hubcap 14 years ago

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I just want to be clear on what I need to do.

I should use Toast to convert my mp3 or wav files to cdda format.

I should take the file that Toast gives me, burn a cd and upload that cd to Kunaki.

I'm using CD-R discs. In stores some are labeled for music and some for data. I'm assuming I should use music. Is there a difference?

Kevin
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- BrianMcLeod 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kevin AKA Hubcap
  
  Thanks for the responses everyone.
  
  I just want to be clear on what I need to do.
  
  I should use Toast to convert my mp3 or wav files to cdda format.
  
  Yes, that's correct. You want to burn an Audio CD, NOT a data CD.
  
  I should take the file that Toast gives me, burn a cd and upload that cd to Kunaki.
  
  Right.
  
  I'm using CD-R discs. In stores some are labeled for music and some for data. I'm assuming I should use music. Is there a difference?
  
  Kevin
  
  Any old CDR will burn an audio CD just fine. You don't need special music CDR's for audio. Audio IS data... (and packaging is marketing!)
  
  I think you've got it now...
  
  Good luck,
  
  Brian
  
  Thanks
  
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BrianMcLeod

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Online Bliss

Would anybody believe me if I told you I purchased one of
first CD burners ever in the early 90's for $4,500.00 and the
Blank discs were at least $35.00 a piece. It was a Marrantz/Phillips
pro audio machine with standard AES digital inputs and outputs and was very heavy.
You had to hit the pause button after every track because the auto record would always mess up. I had some very expensive coffee coasters. :rolleyes:

I would. Back in the early 90's when I was a musician we used to pay $50 to burn CDR's to distribute to radio... and it was a crap shoot if the Denon decks the stations all used would "like" them or not...

Ah.. memories.

Best,

Brian

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AlexR

14 years ago

Probably information overload here.

If you use any burner prog, make sure that you record as "Audio CD" not data CD. I use nero and it automatically converts MP3 to CDDA so that the audio will play on any CD player.

Selecting "Audio CD" should make the transfer transparent and you should not need to do anything else to burn the files to the CD. There is NO conversion that you need to make. The burner will do it automatically.

Alex

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SurviveUnemployment

14 years ago

... uncompressed .wav is closer to the original cdda, hence better for mastering an audio cd...

Yeah, you're absolutely right -- wav is uncompressed. You definitely want to work with wavs for final audio output. Never go from mp3 to wav if you can help it -- it's the other way around.

We're on the same page. Sorry if I came off as a rude know-it-all.

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SageSound 14 years ago

Originally Posted by SurviveUnemployment

Never go from mp3 to wav if you can help it -- it's the other way around.

Most software does NOT record to MP3 by default. If you happen to have some MP3 files, Toast or Nero or whatever will burn them to CD-R just fine as long as you select "Audio CD". Just be aware that you're going to be limited to a total of 70-80 minutes of material depending on your media. That is, while a DATA CD-R might hold 20 hours of MP3 files, you cannot burn an AUDIO CD-R with more than 70-80 minutes of audio on it.

I hope that's not too confusing.

The key thing is simple: AUDIO CD vs. DATA CD.

AUDIO CDs will play in ordinary CD players.

DATA CDs can be read in your computer, and if they contain MP3 files, some players will recognize and play the files. WAV files will NOT play in any players I know of. Just MP3 files.

-David
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- Scott Lundergan 14 years ago
  
  Hey Guys,
  
  One more important think to note is to make sure you are labeling your
  tracks in Toast (I also use MacBurn because it gives more flexibility in naming your tracks).
  
  CD CREATION TIP:
  
  After you create your disc, open up your iTunes with your CD loaded (under Devices).
  
  Select the disc you just burned and then select "Submit CD Track Names" here.
  
  http://streamingmediaconcepts.com/podcasts/cdtracks.png
  
  What this does is send the info of your Master Disc to the Gracenote database
  so when your customers open their cd's through iTunes, your disc and tracks are labeled.
  
  You can find out more about Gracenote (Compact Disc Data Base) below: Gracenote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  
  This way, if you are mastering your CD's through Toast, you avoid issues of having
  your audio discs and tracks saying "Audio CD" and "Track 1, etc", (although it can
  take a few days for it to recognize after you submit), even though you would still
  see the cd names and tracks in standard cd players, etc.
  
  This is helpful for your customers if they want to create mp3 albums and is also a reason
  why many cd's from marketers end up with some weird name in you iTunes album or just
  labeled as above, because iTunes can't find the name through the Gracenote/CDDB online database.
  
  Hope that helps a few of you if you are mastering through Toast.
  
  Best,
  
  Scott
  
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  Kevin AKA Hubcap 14 years ago
  
  OK everybody, thanks for the tips so far but now I have another question.
  
  I also use Vervante for fulfillment and they don't make a disc image. You upload your materials to their site via FTP.
  
  I tested making a disc with i-tunes using the "burn as audio cd" command. It spit out an aiff formatted disc that works in a stand alone cd player. This won't be a problem for Kunaki because they make a disc image but what should I do about Vervante?
  
  I'm going to ask Vervante this same question but I want to ask you also. How do I ensure the audio files I give Vervante are burned as audio cd's and not data cd's.
  
  EDIT: Got a reply from Vervante. They reformat all audio files (mp3, wav, wma, etc.) into a cdda format so they'll play in both stand alone and computer cd players.
  
  Thanks for the help
  
  Kevin
  
  Thanks
  
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freudianslip27

14 years ago

Isn't there a way you can upload an iso that would be directly copied to the cd's? One nice thing about createspace is that you physically send them the cd you want copied, so they will just copy it exactly how you have it formated on there, no need to mess with the confusing aspect of how many formats things can be in between the cd and a computer!

Matt

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Kevin AKA Hubcap

14 years ago

For those that are interested I received a reply from Vervante.

They reformat all audio flies (mp3, wav, etc) into a cdda format when they burn a disc.

Originally Posted by freudianslip27

Isn't there a way you can upload an iso that would be directly copied to the cd's? One nice thing about createspace is that you physically send them the cd you want copied, so they will just copy it exactly how you have it formated on there, no need to mess with the confusing aspect of how many formats things can be in between the cd and a computer!

Matt

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Online Bliss

14 years ago

Ah.. memories.

Expensive memories Brian.

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wav or mp3 for physical cds

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