How will you use testimonials as of Dec 1st?

[scrofford]

Hey everyone,

Now I know there has been numerous postings about the new FTC rulings concerning the use of testimonials. I personally went through a lot of them and I absolutely think it is a bunch of GARBAGE as far as the FTC ruling goes.

My question to eveyone is this: What are you going to do? Are you going to leave your testimonials on your site? Are you going to change them? If so, how? Are you just not going to use testimonials anymore? What exactly are you going to do to comply?

So what are some ways you can actually use good testimonials and not get yourself into trouble? Any opinions?

[FaJeeb]

What I plan to do is making my testimonials a link that brings the viewer to a page asking if they would like to contact the person who made the testimonial. At the same time, I'll be contacting people who I feel have left a quality review or testimonial and offer a monetary incentive to allow my viewers to contact them. If they say refuse the offer and the the incentive, I won't put it on my sales page.

[scrofford]

Originally Posted by FaJeeb

What I plan to do is making my testimonials a link that brings the viewer to a page asking if they would like to contact the person who made the testimonial. At the same time, I'll be contacting people who I feel have left a quality review or testimonial and offer a monetary incentive to allow my viewers to contact them. If they say refuse the offer and the the incentive, I won't put it on my sales page.

That is an excellent idea! Anyone else who will do something like this or just not use testimonials? I am also curious as to what a lot of the huge corporations are going to do.

[scrofford]

Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

I'll be celebrating my 43rd birthday on
that date, the last thing I'll be worrying
about is the FTC.

I love that idea too! Happy soon to be 43!

[dave147]

You have nothing to worry about if you have real testimonials from someone that has actually used or reviewed or benefited from your product - and with a link leading back to the person

[scrofford]

So only a few people are going to do anything? I have a real hard time believing that! I know that good ol Frank Kern doesn't use testimonials and he doesn't plan on starting. Is anyone going to stop altogether?

[havplenty]

Originally Posted by scrofford

So only a few people are going to do anything? I have a real hard time believing that! I know that good ol Frank Kern doesn't use testimonials and he doesn't plan on starting. Is anyone going to stop altogether?

Kern's approach is your answer right there. If you look at a new Clickbank product called Dirty CPA you'll see that no testimonials were used.

Write excellent sales copy, ramp up your bonuses and you'll still sell stuff. Of course Frank Kern at this stage of his career is a living testimonial, so i suspect that's part of the reason he doesn't use them

Hope this helps,

Hav

[scrofford]

So earlier I posted this and there are a couple of other threads that are in regards to the FTC rules. So really, are you going to keep testimonials on your site or pull them? What are you going to do?

[scrofford]

Originally Posted by dave147

You have nothing to worry about if you have real testimonials from someone that has actually used or reviewed or benefited from your product - and with a link leading back to the person

This is NOT true. You need to take a look at the FTC rules now and understand that you can get yourself in a whole lot of trouble EVEN if the testimonials are true.

What is true for one person might not be the "average" for someone else, and here lies the problem and the issue with the FTC.

[bryce]

This is all news to me but I guess the fact that I have been ill has kept me away from most internet happenings of late. Anyway my question is, "does this affect anyone anywhere in the world or is it just another American rule that has no bearing on international sites?"

[ForeignProfessor]

Originally Posted by FaJeeb

What I plan to do is making my testimonials a link that brings the viewer to a page asking if they would like to contact the person who made the testimonial. At the same time, I'll be contacting people who I feel have left a quality review or testimonial and offer a monetary incentive to allow my viewers to contact them. If they say refuse the offer and the the incentive, I won't put it on my sales page.

Nice idea in general, but it does not address the new FTC rules at all and this method will be contravening their new guidelines.

The guidelines state that you must state what a TYPICAL consumer can expect from the product. It is nothing to do with true vs fake testimonials.

And yes, it will be a hell of a lot of work to research what the typical results are for a product. The FTC doesn't care haha.

Most people are probably better of not using testimonials, or promoting products where the producer has done the research and found out what the typical results are. If you're making your own product you've either got a lot of research to do or you're not going to be using testimonials. Either that or breaking the FTC guidelines.

[blingblam]

Originally Posted by bryce

This is all news to me but I guess the fact that I have been ill has kept me away from most internet happenings of late. Anyway my question is, "does this affect anyone anywhere in the world or is it just another American rule that has no bearing on international sites?"

From what I've gathered by reading the forums, these new rules affect anyone doing any sort of business with the United States. This means, if you have U.S. customers, or use U.S. hosting, you need to comply with their rules.

In terms of enforcing the new rules on people from other countries, well that's a different story. I'm going to assume that they'll go after U.S. based people first and foremost.

[blingblam]

Originally Posted by ForeignProfessor

Nice idea in general, but it does not address the new FTC rules at all and this method will be contravening their new guidelines.

The guidelines state that you must state what a TYPICAL consumer can expect from the product. It is nothing to do with true vs fake testimonials.

And yes, it will be a hell of a lot of work to research what the typical results are for a product. The FTC doesn't care haha.

Most people are probably better of not using testimonials, or promoting products where the producer has done the research and found out what the typical results are. If you're making your own product you've either got a lot of research to do or you're not going to be using testimonials. Either that or breaking the FTC guidelines.

Can't you just write "The average person loses absolutely no weight using this product because the average person is lazy and does not want to exercise or fix bad eating habits"...

something along those lines

[bryce]

Originally Posted by blingblam

From what I've gathered by reading the forums, these new rules affect anyone doing any sort of business with the United States. This means, if you have U.S. customers, or use U.S. hosting, you need to comply with their rules.

In terms of enforcing the new rules on people from other countries, well that's a different story. I'm going to assume that they'll go after U.S. based people first and foremost.

Hmmmm very interesting and thanks for the response I wonder also if it includes "testimonials" and "reviews" as we see here in WSO's and other Product or Services for sale related topics......

I mean if we are using the WF to sell a product or service and we have customers putting up testimonials here at WF, does this constitute a breach of the regs?

I will not be changing anything on none of my sites.. FTC can kiss my .. Well, we will not go there but you get the idea.

James

[blingblam]

Originally Posted by bryce

Hmmmm very interesting and thanks for the response I wonder also if it includes "testimonials" and "reviews" as we see here in WSO's and other Product or Services for sale related topics......

I mean if we are using the WF to sell a product or service and we have customers putting up testimonials here at WF, does this constitute a breach of the regs?

Yep, I think it impacts any sort of testimonial. The reviews for WSO's here would be fine if these people weren't receiving free 'test' copies of the products in return for a review. If any compensation whatsoever is given for a testimonial then the FTC rules state that this must be stated clearly.

If you're using testimonials for your WSO's you would have to state what the "average" user can expect from using your product. It's not enough to say "different people will have different results", you have to state what the average user can expect.

I'm in Canada and I'm still trying to figure out how to get around this testimonial issue. I'm wondering if I'll have to move away from flogs altogether, or if I can pay someone for a testimonial and then just cover my ass in the terms and conditions at the bottom of the page. I'll probably speak with a lawyer soon...

[DogScout]

I've decided to have Mickey Mouse do my testimonials. (or Felix the Cat) I will disclose that the average results for all mice using the product is zero income or whatever Mickey says he accomplished using the product.

I figure if it is a parody, Disney can't do anything (they didn't do anything the last time I used him and he was a big hit). & it just might be different enough to get a sale or two. Plus, the disclosure part will be 100% truthful.

Maybe Rin Tin Tin or King the Wonder Dog... Jury is still out on the details.

"I like to moob it moob it moob it!"

[scrofford]

Now what if it's a product you are selling in which people use to learn how to do something and its not focused on how much money someone can make. For example, say I create a "how to" product that shows you how to do SEO, or build your website etc and I am not saying you will make tons of money. What if I just have testimonial up where people say it was a big help to them? How does that work into the equation?

[BIG Mike]

I'm taking down the few I have up there as I rarely use testimonials anyways. In testing, I never found as significant difference with/without them in terms of conversions, so it's easier to leave them out altogether.

Incidentally, that decision was not driven by the FTC - it was planned before they even announced it.

[dave147]

Originally Posted by scrofford

This is NOT true. You need to take a look at the FTC rules now and understand that you can get yourself in a whole lot of trouble EVEN if the testimonials are true.

What is true for one person might not be the "average" for someone else, and here lies the problem and the issue with the FTC.

The FTC are cracking down on fake testimonials. You have the right to add real testimonials to your site, as long as the source can be backed up. It also depends on what the testimonial is stating - should not be an exaggerated claim. This is one of the things they are going after.

[scrofford]

Originally Posted by dave147

The FTC are cracking down on fake testimonials. You have have the right to add real testimonials to your site, as long as the source can be backed up. It also depends on what the testimonial is stating - should not be an exaggerated claim. This is one of the things they are going after.

Yes they are cracking down on fake testimonials....I agree..but you need to read and see what the guidlines are. If you put a testimonial up on your site, it has to be proven that the testimony is what the AVERAGE person can expect as far as results go. That is the big issue here...

But like I was asking, what if you have a product you are selling like a "how to" product in which you don't promise tons of income. Like improving your search engine optimization, or how to write an e book. Would testimonials that said it really helped them improve their skills or what not fall into the FTC catagory?

[JustVisiting]

Originally Posted by scrofford

What is true for one person might not be the "average" for someone else, and here lies the problem and the issue with the FTC.

Originally Posted by ForeignProfessor

The guidelines state that you must state what a TYPICAL consumer can expect from the product.

And yes, it will be a hell of a lot of work to research what the typical results are for a product.

Originally Posted by blingblam

Can't you just write "The average person loses absolutely no weight using this product because the average person is lazy and does not want to exercise or fix bad eating habits"...
something along those lines

Many moons ago part of my science degree involved quite heavy Statistics. The 'Average' value of anything is actually meaningless, statistically. You have to qualify with Standard Deviations, the sample population tested...etc..etc..you get the idea. The phrase; 'Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics' - was coined for a reason.
I can't see how anyone, FTC or Entrepreneur can say what the 'Average' is...because it DOESN'T EXIST.

[dave147]

Originally Posted by scrofford

This is NOT true. You need to take a look at the FTC rules now and understand that you can get yourself in a whole lot of trouble EVEN if the testimonials are true.

What is true for one person might not be the "average" for someone else, and here lies the problem and the issue with the FTC.

Originally Posted by scrofford

Yes they are cracking down on fake testimonials....I agree..but you need to read and see what the guidlines are. If you put a testimonial up on your site, it has to be proven that the testimony is what the AVERAGE person can expect as far as results go. That is the big issue here...

But like I was asking, what if you have a product you are selling like a "how to" product in which you don't promise tons of income. Like improving your search engine optimization, or how to write an e book. Would testimonials that said it really helped them improve their skills or what not fall into the FTC catagory?

If the person has improved their SEO placings because of your product and can back this up, or if they have written an ebook because of your product and can back this up, then there is nothing wrong with that testimonial. The person has the right to speak well of a product that has helped them.
You just gotta be more careful what "testimonials" you place and how they are worded.

[Greg guitar]

If I understand it right, I imagine there will be a few constitutional challenges to this gross infringement on free speech. To have to prove what the "average" results are would be an undue burden that amounts to censorship.

But to be legal, I would state the following:

"The average person who buys a book never reads it. The average person who joins a gym rarely or never works out. By the same token, the average buyer of this product will (sadly) never use it, and will therefore see no benefit from it. Don't be average. Like the person that actually uses a gym membership, you can be one of the rare people who experiences extraordinary results by joining that tiny minority that do what everyone knows they should: take action!"

[scrofford]

Originally Posted by Greg guitar

If I understand it right, I imagine there will be a few constitutional challenges to this gross infringement on free speech. To have to prove what the "average" results are would be an undue burden that amounts to censorship.

But to be legal, I would state the following:

"The average person who buys a book never reads it. The average person who joins a gym rarely or never works out. By the same token, the average buyer of this product will (sadly) never use it, and will therefore see no benefit from it. Don't be average. Like the person that actually uses a gym membership, you can be one of the rare people who experiences extraordinary results by joining that tiny minority that do what everyone knows they should: take action!"

Yeah I totally agree! I have looked at it as an infringement on free speech as well as a few other things. The "contorl" factor here is huge and even though they say that they will issue warnings at first and then if you don't comply, they will fine you, who are "they" to tell me what I can say or not say.

[Istvan Horvath]

I loved the refreshing idea how this site is playing with the use of testimonials
From Pain to Pleasure: The Proven Pathway to Happiness - stressFREEDOMguide.com

[Steven Carl Kelly]

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

I will not be changing anything on none of my sites.

I won't be making any changes, either. Business as usual.

[ronr]

Until now I've always tried to get tesimonials that were specific in nature and gave a specific measurable outcomes from getting my products.

Now I'll be forced to water those down and use testimonials that are much more vague and general.

Too bad since specific testimonials are always more effective.

Ron

[Jayson L]

It really isn't that difficult. If someone gives you a testimonial, ask them to either mail it to you, or email it to you. Keep it on file with there phone number in case you were to ever have to prove it with the ftc. Anyone else that is on your site doesn't need it. I can assume that if someone thinks your testimonials are shady, they aren't buying what your sellling. The only one that needs the proof is the ftc right?

[Steven Wagenheim]

How will you use testimonials as of Dec 1st?

As toilet paper.

All kidding aside, I don't use them often at all anyway so for me, it isn't a big
deal.

But any I DO use will have to comply. In other words, no claims and if any
are made, a full disclaimer as to what the person did to achieve the results
will accompany it.

The FTC is not out to screw us. They're just looking to protect the
consumer. If you honestly do the right thing and don't go overboard with
your sales pages (you know what I mean) you should be more than okay.

In other words, I'm not the least bit worried.

[Kevin AKA Hubcap]

While I do believe the FTC isn't out to screw us the way they write rules leaves much to their own personal interpretation.

You could be running a business "thinking" you're in full compliance but the FTC might not see it that way and the way the regulations are written gives them a lot of leeway.

Kevin

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

As toilet paper.

All kidding aside, I don't use them often at all anyway so for me, it isn't a big
deal.

But any I DO use will have to comply. In other words, no claims and if any
are made, a full disclaimer as to what the person did to achieve the results
will accompany it.

The FTC is not out to screw us. They're just looking to protect the
consumer. If you honestly do the right thing and don't go overboard with
your sales pages (you know what I mean) you should be more than okay.

In other words, I'm not the least bit worried.

[Steven Wagenheim]

Originally Posted by Kevin AKA Hubcap

While I do believe the FTC isn't out to screw us the way they write rules leaves much to their own personal interpretation.

You could be running a business "thinking" you're in full compliance but the FTC might not see it that way and the way the regulations are written gives them a lot of leeway.

Kevin

That's why the lawyers are going to be making a mint with this.

[bid357]

I like Kern's approach saying that most people who buy this product will do absolutely nothing with it and then end with you not going to be one of those people are you.

[112designs]

Don't use testimonials, unless you really want to go up against FTC. Make some sales pages like kern does, or sales pages without testimonials. Or as a last recommendation, if you still want to use testimonials, use them as i and many others do. Make sure they are general and not saying something specific, like how much money they earn or something similar.

Hope this helps,
T

[Rezbi]

I intend to just ask the reader to request a list of testimonials - not that I really use them, anyway.

[Mike Anthony]

I had a question about this and rather than start yet another thread on the FTC guidelines I wanted to ask any of the great minds versed on this how it is going to apply to social sites

Blog comments
Sidebar twitter plugins on Wordpress
The upcoming Google wave.

Technically these things are all seperate form a page or post. So what are the ramifications of havign those comments exist next to your sales page and not technically a part of it?

Of course if you try to rig the comments then it IS a part of your sales message.

[HarryWatson00]

I think it's ridiculous. I wrote an article about this issue and my reaction to it. It details how it will specifically hurt my business and many others on the web. How the FTC is Hurting Online Business | eSpire Marketing

Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly

I won't be making any changes, either. Business as usual.

People get too worked up over nothing, I will run my business as I always do. No big deal..

James

[WritingMadwoman]

Only two of my products used testimonials, and I recently removed them. I don't think they did much for sales anyway; my best seller has never had a testimonial on the sales page or anywhere else and it sells fine.

A bigger change I did make due to these updated guidelines is remove two of the products I had with affiliate programs. If you read these updated guidelines, vendors will be held 100% responsible for anything their affiliates say or do when promoting your product. That to me is far more worrisome than testimonials. Even if you do your best to train your affiliates to abide by the law, you have no guarantees that they will. The last thing I need is a hefty fine because some ding dong was desperate to sell a bunch of ebooks and made some wild claims.

Of course, I never did build an affiliate army or anything so I probably won't see a difference in sales anyway.

Wendy

[davis9461]

Originally Posted by scrofford

Hey everyone,

Now I know there has been numerous postings about the new FTC rulings concerning the use of testimonials. I personally went through a lot of them and I absolutely think it is a bunch of GARBAGE as far as the FTC ruling goes.

My question to eveyone is this: What are you going to do? Are you going to leave your testimonials on your site? Are you going to change them? If so, how? Are you just not going to use testimonials anymore? What exactly are you going to do to comply?

So what are some ways you can actually use good testimonials and not get yourself into trouble? Any opinions?

I personaly only accept testimonials based off my students/clients personal opinions on how I helped them and no money is ever mentioned. It's all about my techniques and skills I present and offer, nothing more. I also have it set up that they are more than welcome to contact the people that made the testimonial, so they can personally verify that my testimonials are legit and not a load of BS.

[tess47]

Just as I have always used them - real testimonials, with links to the actual website of the person who gave the testimonial!

IMO, testimonials that are signed by "Robert K, United States" look phony.

Do an honest business, and you have nothing to worry about!

[ronr]

Originally Posted by tess47

Just as I have always used them - real testimonials, with links to the actual website of the person who gave the testimonial!

IMO, testimonials that are signed by "Robert K, United States" look phony.

Do an honest business, and you have nothing to worry about!

Sigh

It has nothing to do with being honest or not or whether you give their full name or website or not.

If one of your customers gives you a 100% truthful testimonial saying they earned $____________ in ____days or lost _____lbs in ______ days or whatever...you can't use it. Not unless you have done studies that show what the average is for people buying your product.

So before you think you are ok just by linking to a website of someone who gave you a testimony read the new rules. If you want to use specific testimonials that give specific results, that will not be enough.

The new rules can be interpreted in different ways but if (and yes the odds are very small you will have a problem) you are picked for enforcement the FTC will find something they don't like about your site guarenteed.

-----------------------------

From the ruling

An advertisement employing endorsements by one or more consumers about the performance of an advertised product or service will be interpreted as representing that the product or service is effective for the purpose depicted in the advertisement. Therefore, the advertiser must possess and rely upon adequate substantiation, including, when appropriate, competent and reliable scientific evidence, to support such claims made through endorsements in the same manner the advertiser would be required to do if it had made the representation directly,

i.e., without using endorsements. Consumer endorsements themselves are not
competent and reliable scientific evidence.

An advertisement containing an endorsement relating the experience of one or more consumers on a central or key attribute of the product or service also will likely be interpreted as The Commission tested the communication o

1 f advertisements containing testimonials that clearly and prominently disclosed either “Results not typical” or the stronger “These testimonials are based on the experiences of a few people and you are not likely to have similar results.” Neither disclosure adequately reduced the communication that the experiences depicted are generally representative. Based upon this research, the Commission believes that similar disclaimers regarding the limited applicability of an endorser’s experience to what consumers may generally expect to achieve are unlikely to be effective.

Nonetheless, the Commission cannot rule out the possibility that a strong disclaimer of typicality could be effective in the context of a particular advertisement. Although the Commission would have the burden of proof in a law enforcement action, the Commission notes that an advertiser possessing reliable empirical testing demonstrating that the net impression of its advertisement with such a disclaimer is non-deceptive will avoid the risk of the initiation of such an action in the first instance.
65
representing that the endorser’s experience is representative of what consumers will generally achieve with the advertised product or service in actual, albeit variable, conditions of use. Therefore, an advertiser should possess and rely upon adequate substantiation for this representation. If the advertiser does not have substantiation that the endorser’s experience is representative of what consumers will generally achieve, the advertisement should clearly and conspicuously disclose the generally expected performance in the depicted circumstances, and the advertiser must possess and rely on adequate substantiation for that representation.1

[scrofford]

Yeah I have come to the conclusion that testimonials will be more trouble than they are worth. Someone brought up affiliates....You can't control what they do but you are still held responsible. Should we not have affiliate programs either? That could cause a serious income cut for some.

[WritingMadwoman]

Originally Posted by scrofford

Someone brought up affiliates....You can't control what they do but you are still held responsible. Should we not have affiliate programs either? That could cause a serious income cut for some.

No, I think it's an acceptable risk for some vendors - like those who have many, many affiliates making a ton of sales for them. Those vendors are making enough to cover a fine if it should ever happen, which is probably rare.

But for my two little products that had only a handful of affiliate sales each week, it just wasn't worth it to me.

Wendy

[JustVisiting]

Originally Posted by ronr

Therefore, the advertiser must possess and rely upon adequate substantiation, including, when appropriate, competent and reliable scientific evidence, to support such claims made...

Legal Clap-trap. Put 2 scientists in a room and they will disagree over the interpretation of 'scientific evidence'.

Originally Posted by ronr

...advertisements containing testimonials that clearly and prominently disclosed either “Results not typical” or the stronger “These testimonials are based on the experiences of a few people and you are not likely to have similar results.”

Here's THE answer...A SIMPLE DISCLAIMER.
“Results not typical”... This is stating the Bleedin' obvious to all except the mentally-challenged and the FTC.

Originally Posted by ronr

...advertisement should clearly and conspicuously disclose the generally expected performance in the depicted circumstances, and the advertiser must possess and rely on adequate substantiation for that representation.]

Again, Legal clap-trap. So totally SUBJECTIVE as to be almost un-enforcable without expensive legal proceedings...were these rules thought up by the legal profession to make more money for the legal profession?

[scrofford]

Originally Posted by JustVisiting

Legal Clap-trap. Put 2 scientists in a room and they will disagree over the interpretation of 'scientific evidence'.




Here's THE answer...A SIMPLE DISCLAIMER.
“Results not typical”... This is stating the Bleedin' obvious to all except the mentally-challenged and the FTC.


Again, Legal clap-trap. So totally SUBJECTIVE as to be almost un-enforcable without expensive legal proceedings...were these rules thought up by the legal profession to make more money for the legal profession?

The simple disclaimer that the "Results are not typical" WILL NOT WORK with the FTC Ruling. You need to do your homework. Also the FTC has been known to go after businesses whom did not comply. Again, do your homework.

[Raydal]

I'll be very impress if the FTC came after any Warrior. Do you think that
they even know that you exist?

There are more important things to worry about, like nuclear proliferation
and saving the whales.

-Ray Edwards

[WritingMadwoman]

I agree, most of us are considered too "small time" to even glance in our direction. But my thoughts are why take the chance, especially if you know that some of your testimonials, sales copy or other materials are in violation with the updated guidelines?

I'd much rather spend a few minutes cleaning it all up now than pay the consequences later if they ever did decide to come knocking on my door!

Wendy

[JustVisiting]

This whole FTC stuff is totally crazy.
I do some B2B marketing offering seo services and guess what, when one of my clients says I'm wonderful, with their say-so, I stick a testimonial on my website. And for this type of site I certainly am NOT going to change anything. The testimonial is on file. It's good enough for off-line promotional material so it's good enough for online, which after-all, is just another marketing medium.

[BIG Mike]

It's funny actually, when things like this come up - you get the "Sky is Falling" group running around and the "Here's the solution" group with a product to sell.

All things considered, it's enough to be aware of the problem and have a basic understanding of what it's all about - this forum is great for that.

However, this is where the smart business person checks with their lawyer for guidance rather than public forums before making a major change in direction.