Is the FTC here to make it harder for all marketers?

[m4rx]

I recently recieved an email from one of my subscriptions, and it showed that the Federal Trade Commission is releasing something on December 1st, that is suppose to outline new rules for the internet.

The site I found it at is here.

https://www.sitecompliant.com/

Is this true, or just a campaign to make a buck.

--m4rx

[AndrewHansen]

The rules are changing. I'm sure if you search the forum you'll find 100 threads with information on the technical details of it.

But it's nothing to do with "new rules of the internet".

What you're looking at is just the first major case of marketers trying to profit from the fear and uncertainty about the whole thing - nothing out of the ordinary

Andrew

[JMPruitt]

the FTC guidlines have been out for a while. Basically they are cracking down on spammers and scam artists. IF you run a legit business, you don't need to worry, just admit you get paid for doing your job, hmmm if people don't think I deserve to be paid for working, not my problem.

[patselby]

Andrew,

I have searched the FTC's site and I don't see anything on their site about new rules on the internet.

Pat Selby

[AndrewHansen]

Here's 2 posts that have decent summaries on what you need to know about the new regulations:

My Take On The New FTC Changes

FTC Guidelines - Internet Marketing Changes on December 1, 2009? | PotPieGirl's Blog (PotPieGirl.com)

Andrew

[Kay King]

Use the search here for Federal Trade Commission and you'll find a full page of discussion about the changes. ("FTC" is too short for a good search)

kay

[havplenty]

One of the things that it seems they're (FTC) cracking down on is testimonials. And it seems that a few marketers are reacting preemptively to this. I noticed that a recent Clickbank launch, Dirty CPA is devoid of testimonials. And get this, it's slowly climbing the rankings, which tells me that the sales letter is converting well without testimonials.

Of course it might all be a fluke, but I am going to test it myself.

Hav

[seasoned]

Frankly, the FTC is NOT in business for the internet! They have NOTHING to do with/about the internet! WHO CARES about the internet!?!?!? The FTC is about "TRADE" which is why their name is the "Federal Trade Commission". So are they interested in the internet? NOPE! Do they care what you do on the internet? NOPE! Do they care about TRADE whether it be radio, tv, face to face, phone, radio, OR the internet? YEP!!!!!!!!!

BTW they AREN'T new rules! They are CODIFYING OLD rules! An example is of the FTC rule that says ALL cars on sale in a special from car dealers must be IDENTIFIED by number! That rule passed in like the 80s or so. Was that a NEW rule!?!?!? NOPE! It was a codifying of a method to prevent bait and switch. Car Dealers worked off a technicality in the law that allowed them to say something like "OH, that was due to a special buy, we only had 3 cars at that price, and we just sold the last one. We DO have this OTHER nice car that is $10,000 more, but we can knock $5000 off the price.".

That bait and switch rule is ALSO relatively new but IS IT REALLY!?!? NOPE! It is a codifying of their mission statement against deceptive practices used to influence a customers purchase. Bait and switch is the policy where you CLAIM you will sell something at one price but set things up to sell a product that has less value to, or costs more from, the customer.

I STILL remember a lot of bait and switch and price matching scams that were fought in the 80s. The FTC made a lot of additions to how the code was applied, but nothing actually changed.

Steve

[Tina Golden]

The FTC is here to protect consumers and make fair trade possible. Does it sometimes make things harder for fair marketers? Yup, but you can blame the scam artists and crooks for that.

Of course, it's still a government agency and as such, nothing is necessarily clearcut...lol.

Tina

[scrofford]

Originally Posted by patselby

Andrew,

I have searched the FTC's site and I don't see anything on their site about new rules on the internet.

Pat Selby

You have found nothing? Maybe you ought to search the WF and see all the links to the new rules and regs.

[scrofford]

Originally Posted by seasoned

Frankly, the FTC is NOT in business for the internet! They have NOTHING to do with/about the internet! WHO CARES about the internet!?!?!? The FTC is about "TRADE" which is why their name is the "Federal Trade Commission". So are they interested in the internet? NOPE! Do they care what you do on the internet? NOPE! Do they care about TRADE whether it be radio, tv, face to face, phone, radio, OR the internet? YEP!!!!!!!!!

BTW they AREN'T new rules! They are CODIFYING OLD rules! An example is of the FTC rule that says ALL cars on sale in a special from car dealers must be IDENTIFIED by number! That rule passed in like the 80s or so. Was that a NEW rule!?!?!? NOPE! It was a codifying of a method to prevent bait and switch. Car Dealers worked off a technicality in the law that allowed them to say something like "OH, that was due to a special buy, we only had 3 cars at that price, and we just sold the last one. We DO have this OTHER nice car that is $10,000 more, but we can knock $5000 off the price.".

That bait and switch rule is ALSO relatively new but IS IT REALLY!?!? NOPE! It is a codifying of their mission statement against deceptive practices used to influence a customers purchase. Bait and switch is the policy where you CLAIM you will sell something at one price but set things up to sell a product that has less value to, or costs more from, the customer.

I STILL remember a lot of bait and switch and price matching scams that were fought in the 80s. The FTC made a lot of additions to how the code was applied, but nothing actually changed.

Steve

First of all the FTC rules have EVERYTHING to do with the internet and YES they do care about what you do as far as testimonials! Where have you been? If you knew so much about the NEW FTC regulations you would understand this.

BTW they ARE new rules! They have changed the game plan as far as using testimonials go. The possibility of being fined up to $11,000 IS a big change and you really need to do your home work.

Third, Bait and Switch? The FTC did not do a whole lot back in the 80's about that....THIS IS 2009 dude and they have changed the game plan because of so many people using bogus testimonials among other things.

[havplenty]

It's not just scam artists that are responsbile for this crackdown on the use of bogus testimonials and their incarnations. When I first got started I used to buy products from top marketers (who most would consider legit) and they would tell you blatantly to just make up a testimonial. It seems fake testimonial was a true spirit of the time.

The game has changed because it needed changing. My advice to you all is to 'improvise, adapt & overcome'.

Hav

[TheMagicShow]

From what I have read so far, they will also cause lots of issues, for vendors that run their businesses on clickbank and other large affiliate networks.

Suppose, you have a product on clickbank and have 1000s of affiliates, that do not place the disclaimer " We get paid a commission" on their sites. This could possibly get everyone involved into trouble.

These new stipulations, can harm both honest and dishonest marketers/business owners. You as a merchant, can't have total control power over your affiliates, so it will be interesting how things play out.

[Tina Golden]

When I first got started I used to buy products from top marketers (who most would consider legit) and they would tell you blatantly to just make up a testimonial.

And you think making up a testimonial doesn't count as a scam? Those are exactly the marketers the FTC is targeting with these regulations.

Tina

[Joe Giannetti]

hooo hummmm another ftc thread

[Mike Anthony]

Besides testimonials The New FTC rules also affects your sales copy and especially your headlines.

"14 year old reveals the jaw dropping technique of making $14,000 in three days while asleep on the beach"

is now somethng you are going to have to prove is an average result for anyone using the technique.

[havplenty]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

And you think making up a testimonial doesn't count as a scam? Those are exactly the marketers the FTC is targeting with these regulations.

Tina

Tina I am not for a second suggesting that fake testimonials are not scams, of course they are! What I am merely highlighting is the fact that this was common practice across the IM community.

When we paint the picture of the scam artist we need to use a very broad brush.

Case in point:

Frank Kern is seen by most as respectable marketer, but he was sued by the FTC for practicing the sort of marketing that is now taboo. Would you challenge Frank Kern's legitimacy in the community and call him a scam artist? I wouldn't on the basis of his overall achievements.

In short Kern has cleaned up his act.

I am not endorsing scams, which is why I don't flock to the latest launch and buy hype promising me $187,000 a month in earnings - in just 15 minutes from now.

The truth is that a lot of what is sold in IM wouldn't pass the test in the cold light of day. And most of the peddlers know this. I guarantee it.

Here's a couple of things the FTC should crack down on:

Marketers who show earnings proof, which are totally unrelated to the method(s) that they are promoting. You see this a lot on survey sites, with Clickbank screenshots.

Marketers who show earnings proof which are based on years of trial and error and testing, yet peddle the idea that the same result can be achieved in just weeks or months. That's a scam!

I hope you see Tina, that I am not endorsing scams. I just want you and every other marketer to examine their business models, claims etc and weed out the elements which are questionable at best and downright dodgy at worst.

Hav

[havplenty]

Originally Posted by Mike Anthony

Besides testimponials The New FTC rules also affects your sales copy and especially your headlines.

"14 year old reveals the jaw dropping technique of making $14,000 in three days while asleep on the beach"

is now somethng you are going to have to prove is an average result for anyone using the technique.

And it's about time too! Joyner was right; selling the sizzle without the steak is an absolute scam.

[Tina Golden]

Yes, they definitely should clean up the outright lies and deceptive practices. I took your other post wrong, apparently. I thought you were saying that it was okay because it was standard practice at the time.

Sorry about that,
Tina

[Sylonious]

Originally Posted by m4rx

I recently recieved an email from one of my subscriptions, and it showed that the Federal Trade Commission is releasing something on December 1st, that is suppose to outline new rules for the internet.

The site I found it at is here.

https://www.sitecompliant.com/

Is this true, or just a campaign to make a buck.

--m4rx

That's the site Joel Comm was promoting. I was a little mad that they were promoting yet another FTC compliance kit, but I am impressed with the value and price of the package.

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

And you think making up a testimonial doesn't count as a scam? Those are exactly the marketers the FTC is targeting with these regulations.

Tina

The new FTC guidelines have made all testimonials illegal not just fake ones. You can't have any testimonial on your site that isn't brutally honest about what most customers can expect by using your product.

So "scam artists" like WeightWatchers.com can't say that Barbara lost 96 pounds on weight watchers then turn around and say "results not typical".

If they still want to use testimonials they must say that Barbara lost 96 pounds because she was training for a marathon, she road her bike 3 miles everyday for 6-months and only ate lettuce, boca burgers and tofu eggs. You know, something "realistic".

Those are the type of marketers the FTC is targeting with these regulations. "Scammers" like Weight Watchers and other people who use any kind of testimonial.

[Click Here To See Weight Watchers Still Not Complying >>>]
[Click Here To See LAWeightLoss.com Still Not Complying >>>]

[CCCAffiliate]

Hey Guys, thanks for all the information! Does anybody know of anybody that can go over my website and tell me everything that needs to change if needed? Of course pay is involved!

Thanks!

[websitemrktg]

Many, many online marketers are pooh-poohing the new rules, however just as it would do everyone a service to read to read any and all bills they try to pass (ie healthcare) it would do you a service to read this.

Search FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 16 CFR Part 255 and it is the first listing

For one thing if you do have testimonials on your site or blog you will have to do extensive research to find out what the "typical" results of those who use the product or service are and post those as well in plain view. Now think about what that would take and if you even have the resources to do it? For me forget it. They have won on this one and I will take all testimonials off my pages, blogs etc. The older I get the harder I find it to believe that the gov is actually here to help the consumer or the general public with anything they do. I had more info on this but I do not know where it is. But it can be found.

[Raydal]

This is of course a marketing opportunity for lawyers. Happened before when
everyone was rushing to add privacy policy and other legalese to their
website after the Frank case.

I was looking at one of those legal kits sites today and they have
testimonials on their site. You don't need a law degree to look at their
site and read the requirements from the FTC and know what you can
and cannot say.

But again, like every few years in the IM world, the sky is falling.

-Ray Edwards

[CCCAffiliate]

Hey Ray,

I see you do sales letters. I sent a "free quote" in.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

lol...

Just looking at sites in posts and sigs in this thread, I saw 2 fake proof of incomes...

No wonder the FTC is getting involved

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

lol...

Just looking at sites in posts and sigs in this thread, I saw 2 fake proof of incomes...

No wonder the FTC is getting involved

My point exactly, you don't need a legal degree to be compliant.

-Ray Edwards

[Sylonious]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

lol...

Just looking at sites in posts and sigs in this thread, I saw 2 fake proof of incomes...

No wonder the FTC is getting involved

Again, the new FTC rules have nothing to do with fake testimonials. Fake testimonials have never been legal. The new FTC rules focus on a-typical results.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Originally Posted by Sylonious

Again, the new FTC rules have nothing to do with fake testimonials. Fake testimonials have never been legal. The new FTC rules focus on a-typical results.

Do the new rules have anything to do with fake screen shots of income?

And even if the new rules don't - It still makes you a dirt bag if you are creating your own screen shots or dreaming up your own testimonials.

[Sylonious]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Do the new rules have anything to do with fake screen shots of income?

No, no, no that's always been illegal.

The new FTC rules deal with disclosing relationships and a-typical results.

So when someone says "I lost 5 pounds on nutrislim" and then you see the disclaimer at the bottom they are breaking the new rules.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

And even if the new rules don't - It still makes you a dirt bag if you are creating your own screen shots or dreaming up your own testimonials.

You shouldn't just assume that a screenshot is fake out of spite. You can run an adwords campain, earn $10,000 from clickbank and not break even. There's nothing illegal about showing your clickbank screenshot in that case.

[blingblam]

What if they write "then I lost 5 pounds on nutrislim" and then in the disclaimer at the bottom of the page they write "the average result is that you won't lose any weight on nutrislim" is that okay?

or do they have to write that beside the initial claim instead of at the bottom of the page?

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Originally Posted by Sylonious

You shouldn't just assume that a screenshot is fake out of spite. You can run an adwords campain, earn $10,000 from clickbank and not break even. There's nothing illegal about showing your clickbank screenshot in that case.

I'm not assuming anything...

If the screen shot has javascript all over it and the lines don't match up - It's fake...Plain and simple.

It's people that do that kind of crap that make everyone so fricken jaded and suspicious of anything and everything in this business.

If there wasn't a "rule #1" on this forum, I could list off probably 30 or 40 in the next hour...

[Sylonious]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

I'm not assuming anything...

If the screen shot has javascript all over it and the lines don't match up - It's fake...Plain and simple.

It's people that do that kind of crap that make everyone so fricken jaded and suspicious of anything and everything in this business.

If there wasn't a "rule #1" on this forum, I could list off probably 30 or 40 in the next hour...

I understand where you are coming from there, but that still has absolutely nothing to do with the new FTC rules on testimonials with a-typical results.

If those sites were making enough money to get on the FTCs radar someone would have asked them for proof of income by now.

[cindyt]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

And you think making up a testimonial doesn't count as a scam? Those are exactly the marketers the FTC is targeting with these regulations.

Tina

Good point.

[Jeremy Kelsall]

Originally Posted by Sylonious

I understand where you are coming from there, but that still has absolutely nothing to do with the new FTC rules on testimonials with a-typical results.

If those sites were making enough money to get on the FTCs radar someone would have asked them for proof of income by now.

Actually, it has everything to do with it...

If there were not so many morons running around making their own testimonials, creating their own income screen shots, and basically trying to fool people into believing that they are something they are not, we probably wouldn't be talking about this.

On another note...

Even the people (I'm not talking about this thread) that are saying - "I've been complying for years - I don't have a thing to worry about" or "I've made it known on my site for months that I make a commission when they click a link and buy something" are more often than not full of crap...I've clicked links from several people making claims like that and they are not compliant.

Our attorney has advised us to do the following:

Use no testimonials that claim a specific dollar amount in them

Use absolutely no claims of income unless they are audited by the accountant

Write better copy

Just so it wasn't $500 down the drain, we will probably follow his advice

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by scrofford

First of all the FTC rules have EVERYTHING to do with the internet and YES they do care about what you do as far as testimonials! Where have you been? If you knew so much about the NEW FTC regulations you would understand this.

BTW they ARE new rules! They have changed the game plan as far as using testimonials go. The possibility of being fined up to $11,000 IS a big change and you really need to do your home work.

Third, Bait and Switch? The FTC did not do a whole lot back in the 80's about that....THIS IS 2009 dude and they have changed the game plan because of so many people using bogus testimonials among other things.

Gee, you didn't read too much of what I wrote. I tried to make it clear that it wasn't about the internet AT ALL! The internet is merely a new medium that they didn't know about so many DECADES ago. The FTC has been around FAR longer than the internet. The rules against improper reprsentation(WHIC +H INCLUDES REVIEWS) were ALSO around! And $11,000 seems to be a magic number. That is ALSO the same fine charged, by the FTC, for a number called that is on a ban list, AND the same fine charged, by the FAAA, for standing up on a plane within 30 minutes of washington DC!

The DID codify rules in the 1980s, and my point wass that they merely spelled out an application of a rule that was already on the books.

HECK, some attorneys argue that the media changes, so the rules no longer apply. And you see evidence of that in copyright/license messages written almost EVERYWHERE! Do they merely say you can not copy? NOPE! WHY!?!? Because people have argued that if you don't lay it out, it doesn't apply.

Steve

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Do the new rules have anything to do with fake screen shots of income?

And even if the new rules don't - It still makes you a dirt bag if you are creating your own screen shots or dreaming up your own testimonials.

That is ANOTHER thing that has been ILLEGAL since the FIRST day the FTC was in business! MANY businesses were prosecuted for it LONG ago! STILL, several years ago they codified it and even mention the internet. at the time, they prosecuted two famous cases, and it started a HUGE spike in sales by lawyers, paralegals, etc...

Steve

[Sylonious]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Actually, it has everything to do with it...

If there were not so many morons running around making their own testimonials, creating their own income screen shots, and basically trying to fool people into believing that they are something they are not, we probably wouldn't be talking about this.

If anything, this was sparked by acai flogs and mommy bloggers not disclosing free gifts. They made absolutely no mention of fake testimonials.

Everyone knows that it's illegal to put up a fake testimonial. If someone chooses to do something like that they've already failed because they have no intention on making a long-term income with that kind of business model.

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

On another note...

Even the people (I'm not talking about this thread) that are saying - "I've been complying for years - I don't have a thing to worry about" or "I've made it known on my site for months that I make a commission when they click a link and buy something" are more often than not full of crap...I've clicked links from several people making claims like that and they are not compliant.

Amen, I bought an FTC package from some guy and his website still had testimonials. It was a great package, but he still should have known better. SMH

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

Our attorney has advised us to do the following:

Use no testimonials that claim a specific dollar amount in them

Use absolutely no claims of income unless they are audited by the accountant

Write better copy

Just so it wasn't $500 down the drain, we will probably follow his advice

I'm reading between the lines here, but when you say write better copy obviously you are bracing yourself for the conversion hit your (not you in particular) sales letter will take. Many customers will not buy a product if it doesn't have a good testimonial on the website.

Nothing beats testimonials.

[Steve Iser]

Lawyers sure are playing off the fears of online marketers. Gurus too.

Marketing 101 I suppose.

Steve

[scrofford]

Originally Posted by seasoned

Gee, you didn't read too much of what I wrote. I tried to make it clear that it wasn't about the internet AT ALL! The internet is merely a new medium that they didn't know about so many DECADES ago. The FTC has been around FAR longer than the internet. The rules against improper reprsentation(WHIC +H INCLUDES REVIEWS) were ALSO around! And $11,000 seems to be a magic number. That is ALSO the same fine charged, by the FTC, for a number called that is on a ban list, AND the same fine charged, by the FAAA, for standing up on a plane within 30 minutes of washington DC!

The DID codify rules in the 1980s, and my point wass that they merely spelled out an application of a rule that was already on the books.

HECK, some attorneys argue that the media changes, so the rules no longer apply. And you see evidence of that in copyright/license messages written almost EVERYWHERE! Do they merely say you can not copy? NOPE! WHY!?!? Because people have argued that if you don't lay it out, it doesn't apply.

Steve

I understand what you are saying here...You should have made yourself clearer in the other post.

[Paul Schlegel]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

lol...

Just looking at sites in posts and sigs in this thread, I saw 2 fake proof of incomes...

No wonder the FTC is getting involved

LOL. You are Mr. "Fake Proof of Income Spotter". I've noticed you flesh those out more than a few times in these threads.

[Online Bliss]

The game has changed because it needed changing. My advice to you all is to 'improvise, adapt & overcome'.

It's a lot like when ebay banned downloads, We had to adapt and improvise.
However it is also about honesty and integrity and I have a feeling some don't care
like marketers who still Spam.