Teachers Are Cashing In On Your Education

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by Radix

We had to abandon the whole "trust teachers" thing here when Bush tied school funding to student success. It was headed that way long before, but he sealed the deal.

That was bipartisan legislation. Ted Kennedy was standing right next to him when he signed it.

[AmyBrown]

Originally Posted by Radix

I don't advocate the practice, that's what got everyone else worked up. I am oversimplifying, but I'm not also not speaking to educators here. There are multiple reasons the buying and selling of lesson plans is a poor practice. I completely disagree that the origin of the lesson plan is irrelevant. Borrowing ideas, modifying existing materials, using materials from a peer or mentor are all perfectly acceptable and encouraged. Buying a lesson plan from a perfect stranger is abusing the trust the school and community have placed in the teacher. They hired a teacher, not a stunt double.

To clarify, it was your assertion of the legality and acceptability of a teacher profiting from materials created for their classroom that I was addressing. The article was on the front page of the paper on Sunday and the subject is the topic of much conversation here in suburbia.

I had books of lesson plans, lesson plans I developed in teacher training, lessons given to me by my mentor teachers. None of that is different than purchasing one online. I'll admit to owning, modifying, perhaps even using some of them as-is if it suited what I was teaching. No one was abused in the process. The magic is in the teaching, not the plan book.

[Martin Luxton]

Originally Posted by drwhogoesthere

I think you are all on the wrong track. I still work as a teacher and it is not the lesson plan that makes a good teacher, it’s how you get the kids interested.

That's a whole can of worms there. Give me the target language and the lesson aim and I can do a perfectly structured lesson off the cuff because I have the whole process internalised. I also know how to keep the students engaged.

But that comes from experience, confidence and highly developed skill. There are a lot of newer/less able teachers who need help with a lesson plan and their colleagues don't always have the time to help them out. Plus, who hasn't experienced the "OK, we haven't got a geography teacher this term. You've got a week to learn the subject and prepare lessons."

Originally Posted by drwhogoesthere

If you judge a teacher on their lesson plans then you have a poor idea about what teaching really is.

Unfortunately, governments like paperwork and is often the people who are good at the admin side who get rewarded.

Regarding poor quality lesson plans, as Amy said there could be a big gap in this market for a quality site selling lessons guaranteed to work.

One model you could copy is this subscription site

Onestopenglish | Resources for teaching English

Martin

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Radix

We had to abandon the whole "trust teachers" thing here when Bush tied school funding to student success. It was headed that way long before, but he sealed the deal. Now teachers are responsible for the performance of creatures that are generally indifferent to the world that surrounds them. It's really quite comical if you think about it.

The sad reality is teachers are now required to provide lesson plans that prove they are teaching directly to their state's respective assessment. Anything beyond that is peachy, but that is the minimum administrators have to ensure.

In part, you can thank the "democrat" teacher's union for that. They don't want ANYONE assessing how well they are doing, or can do. If you DARE to, they go on strike!!!!!

Frankly, if I were president, I would look at all 50 states, boil down things, and say THIS is what you MUST teach by 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 9th grades! You have 3 years left to make sure they EXCEL or study some approved option. To give you an idea, I would say that by 1st grade they would have to learn reading, basic writing, basic math, etc... By 9th probably algebra, trig, etc... Each year vocabulary standards and math standards would be raised. The third grade would have more complex math. Teach the basics of two popular foreign languages by 5th grade. Well, you get the idea. HECK, I still remember reading sentences in first grade while some were trying to read words. TODAY, I have known 3rd grade teachers that are OK with students that CAN'T READ!!!!!

I would ALSO mandate a yearly assessment done at the school with someone held responsible for proctoring. Frankly, the OLD method of teachers being "responsible", and the new "state" tests JUST DON'T CUT IT!

Steve

[Radix]

Originally Posted by seasoned

In part, you can thank the "democrat" teacher's union for that. They don't want ANYONE assessing how well they are doing, or can do. If you DARE to, they go on strike!!!!!

Frankly, if I were president, I would look at all 50 states, boil down things, and say THIS is what you MUST teach by 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 9th grades! You have 3 years left to make sure they EXCEL or study some approved option. To give you an idea, I would say that by 1st grade they would have to learn reading, basic writing, basic math, etc... By 9th probably algebra, trig, etc... Each year vocabulary standards and math standards would be raised. The third grade would have more complex math. Teach the basics of two popular foreign languages by 5th grade. Well, you get the idea. HECK, I still remember reading sentences in first grade while some were trying to read words. TODAY, I have known 3rd grade teachers that are OK with students that CAN'T READ!!!!!

I would ALSO mandate a yearly assessment done at the school with someone held responsible for proctoring. Frankly, the OLD method of teachers being "responsible", and the new "state" tests JUST DON'T CUT IT!

Steve

Government really has no place in the education business.

The crux of your argument really boils down to expectations. Unfortunately, public schools have become a giant crap catcher for society's shortcomings. Expectations have been historically dropping for decades. At this pace we'll be lucky if our grandchildren are capable of much beyond a fistbump at graduation.

No tests will fix that.

[Ben Schemel]

I teach skate boarding and rock climbing, where do I sell my lesson plas?

[Greg guitar]

It's a bad idea letting teachers profit from their own work. A teacher's life should be completely devoted to serving the community.

I say get rid of the profiteering teachers that aspire to a luxurious lifestyle of sleeping in beds, living in heated homes, and eating fresh produce. Let them find a way to live frugally, sleeping on straw mats in unheated shacks, using pigs, dogs, and old blankets for warmth, eating nothing more extravagant than pb+j sandwiches, mac+cheese dinners, and breakfast gruel. Virtue grows in a bed of frugal living. Sin thrives in luxury.

Speaking of sin, I think it's an outrage that teachers these days are allowed to have sex with a partner (or alone-teachers caught with creams, lotions, or body oils should be flogged). Who knows what other sordid personal pleasures they engage in now that their privacy is considered to be a personal "right".

Let's bring back the days when teachers were expected to lead a saintly and celibate life and too much fun was a sin. Why just the other day, I was passing a local school and noticed a female teacher on the playground, and she was brazenly displaying, not only her ankles, but naked calves as well!!!! The shock and outrage I felt was indescribable. I had to rush home and pray for their immortal souls (and my own; I am not immune to the devil's temptations).

While we're at it, let's lower their pay. We don't want them having any disposible income, lest they be led into temptation by the merchants of booze, pornography, and other tools of Satan.

Or maybe I'm wrong and we should raise their pay, let them lubricate themselves or each other if they choose to, (but not on school property), and let them profit from their own unique lesson plans that they created while engaged in their noble yet wretchedly overworked/underpaid profession. I can't decide.

I think I'll quit talking to the invisible man upstairs now, and go have some demonic fun!

[Rezbi]

Originally Posted by seasoned

I can't speak about YOU. I don't know you. SOME, however, do not deserve one PENNY! THINK about it! They waste maybe 30+ people's time with nonsense or stuff they don't know and/or can't teach.

And there was one teacher I knew that worked at approving teachers. There was a teacher that was OK at teaching classes, but I guess not the best at explaining. ANOTHER was one everyone liked, was a good tutor etc..., but not the best in front of a class. They WANTED to keep BOTH, but were AFRAID to keep the second guy! They were DEBATING it! WHY!?!!? Because this was their LAST year before he would have tenure. If they kept him on, and later lost funds, they would have to fire the BETTER teacher, because she WOULDN'T have tenure!

Sometimes things that SEEM good can BITE YOU!

HEY, they have more they SHOULD teach now, but don't, things are going downhill, and Obama is claiming the students should waste MORE of their time! INCREDIBLE!

Steve

I agree. When I read some of the letters from my younger son's school I'm astonished that it's not only written by a teacher, but by the head teacher.

I have a feeling some of them really believe writing is spelt with an 'r' in front. The English is appalling.

[Rezbi]

Originally Posted by Radix

Government really has no place in the education business.

It's a shame they don't know that. Our education system might still have been pretty good before they messed it up.

[Daniel E Taylor]

Honestly who gives a ****?

Let teachers do whatever they need to do to make their
job easier and more efficient.

I helped a friend who is a teacher once at her house to
sort some papers.

I was amazed at how much freaking work these teachers
have to do OFF THE CLOCK.

It's ridiculous. Teachers have a tough job. That requires
many overtime hours with no pay.

I'm on the teachers side.

GO TEACHERS!

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Radix

Government really has no place in the education business.

The crux of your argument really boils down to expectations. Unfortunately, public schools have become a giant crap catcher for society's shortcomings. Expectations have been historically dropping for decades. At this pace we'll be lucky if our grandchildren are capable of much beyond a fistbump at graduation.

No tests will fix that.

YOU SEE what I am talking about!?!? "Teachers"(SORRY that I misspelled the word so many times here) with THAT attitude are the problem!

And the government PAYS for public education. They DEMAND that kids spend their time in school. They should make sure that the U.S. AGAIN becomes a TRUE world leader and STAYS THERE! It will NEVER happen, but it SHOULD! And too many "teachers" feel that teachers should be just BABYSITTERS! And they EXPECT a "living wage"!?!?!? INCREDIBLE!

If you want to be a babysitter, STATE IT! MAYBE you can make 10-15/hour! Just don't offer tutoring, OK?

Steve

TOO MANY feel as you, and TOO many people pay "

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Rezbi

I agree. When I read some of the letters from my younger son's school I'm astonished that it's not only written by a teacher, but by the head teacher.

I have a feeling some of them really believe writing is spelt with an 'r' in front. The English is appalling.

That's NOTHING! I spoke to one parent that said her kids are complaining about some teachers that are FOREIGNERS! ONE teacher is ARROGANT, TALKS FAST, and mispronounces, and her son can't understand him. Her son's grades are suffering because of the TEACHER! He WAS doing well. There are some times when you have to consider some things.

How many people have to suffer and/or DIE before someone in power gets that through their thick skull!?

Steve

[Radix]

Originally Posted by seasoned

YOU SEE what I am talking about!?!? "Teachers"(SORRY that I misspelled the word so many times here) with THAT attitude are the problem!

And the government PAYS for public education. They DEMAND that kids spend their time in school. They should make sure that the U.S. AGAIN becomes a TRUE world leader and STAYS THERE! It will NEVER happen, but it SHOULD! And too many "teachers" feel that teachers should be just BABYSITTERS! And they EXPECT a "living wage"!?!?!? INCREDIBLE!

If you want to be a babysitter, STATE IT! MAYBE you can make 10-15/hour! Just don't offer tutoring, OK?

Steve

TOO MANY feel as you, and TOO many people pay "

Good grief, this is a lost cause.

[rondo]

Interesting. I'm all for monetizing intellectual property, but I would have thought the employer (the school) owned these lesson plans if the teachers created them while employed by the school.

[Greg guitar]

Originally Posted by seasoned

Frankly, if I were president, I would look at all 50 states, boil down things, and say THIS is what you MUST teach by 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 9th grades! You have 3 years left to make sure they EXCEL or study some approved option. To give you an idea, I would say that by 1st grade they would have to learn reading, basic writing, basic math, etc... By 9th probably algebra, trig, etc... Each year vocabulary standards and math standards would be raised. The third grade would have more complex math. Teach the basics of two popular foreign languages by 5th grade. Well, you get the idea. HECK, I still remember reading sentences in first grade while some were trying to read words. TODAY, I have known 3rd grade teachers that are OK with students that CAN'T READ!!!!!



Steve

Okay, I'm sorry but this really got me going: LONG RANT AHEAD:

This type of anti-creative, anti-individual, authoritarian rigid thinking is causing all kinds of unnecessary pain for children that don't fit the mold and aren't suited to the universal schedule adults arrogantly force upon them.

A minority, like possibly yourself, do well with it, but even those that do are often the worse for wear, as regimentation's meta-lesson is that learning is about working for a grade, rather than to satisfy your innate curiosity, or for the natural joy of discovery that regimentation has crushed out of your mind.

The far greater natural rewards of learning: the wonderful expansion of mind, the awesome discovery of once distant horizons, the satisfaction of curiosity, and the development and refinement of new skills, is forcibly traded for far more meager ones: the good report card, the gold star, and the pat on the head.

A disaster strikes: learning goes from internally to externally driven. Students learn to pass tests in order to please authority figures. Learning from the heart is a foggy memory at best.

The internal drive to grow and expand that is built into every young mind, largely shrivels from disuse. Learning goes from a joyful natural process that the person's whole being is eagerly and energetically thrown into, to a chore they must be forced to do.

One of the biggest tasks of teaching becomes trying to bend the will of the child. If successful, the child internalizes the lesson so well, his will merges with the will of the school, and he no longer knows what he would want to learn if nobody was telling him what he must, for a good score.

Perhaps the meta-meta lesson is that the child's purpose is not to pursue her own interests, but to obey; to do what she "should" and to perform tests that prove her worthy to the people that have more power than herself. It's an effective lesson if the purpose is to produce docile workers; not so good if the purpose is to empower the individual to think for herself, find her greatest purpose, and make the most of her life.

Some can succeed quite well, and even thrive in the regimented system, but they are in the minority. When it comes to the mind and learning, try as we might to force it to, one size doesn't fit all!

Even those whose grades show success, are often left with psychological barriors to lifelong learning (and other issues) from this very unnatural model. There are college graduates that would never think to crack a book because it looks fascinating, or fun. They've absorbed the lesson that learning is all about the tests, papers and grades; without the grade there's no point.

Many take drugs to get through school; a logical strategy when the grade is a higher priority than the student's own welfare. I had a buddy in a medical program who told me everyone in his class reported developing some kind of a sleep disorder as a result of the workload. He wasn't drugging, and he was a good student, but his health was ironically damaged by it.

If you think I'm blowing smoke, consider this: we all know children learn at a phenomenal rate during the first few years of life. Possibly they learn more in the first 3-4 years of life than in the 12 years from grade through high school! And they learn the most demanding thing they probably ever will; how to use their mouths to form words that convey actual meaning; from a standing start! Incredible; reading is child's;-) play by comparison!

Yet those are the years before regimentation, or (with rare exceptions) any type of formality is introduced. Why aren't we the least bit interested in finding out something about this amazing process and applying it to help people reach thier greatest potential?! Well, some people are intensely interested, but the testing junkies are not among them.

An obvious lesson to be gleaned is that learning is innate: it happens when a kid gets lots of loving attention, and the people giving it don't even need any expertise; the child still learns amazingly complex "lessons" at an incredible rate. So do we take any insights and apply them to education?

Not if we listen to the "more testing", "more rigid standards", "punish the teachers that don't produce high grade getting robots" crowd. They pretty much advocate the opposite; teach by force. If that doesn't work, increase the force. Apply it to the teachers, (threat of job loss), who will pass it on the the kids (threat of being held back/humiliation), who will damn well be punished if they don't learn exactly what we want them to on our exact schedule.

The fact is, this hysterical testing frenzy that gives tests and grades the highest priority and ignores the actual learning experience is driven by a profound disrespect of humans, and especially, children. If you need to test them every time they turn around, it shows a total lack of confidence in their process. To quote Pink Floyd, "Leave them kids alone!"

Excessive testing has demonstrably negative effects on children, and actually interferes with learning. Any honest assessment of education and what we know of the mind has to concede that we know precious little about the internal mechanics of learning. But we know that it does happen on it's own. You can encourage it, or interfere with it, but you can't force it, especially given that you don't even know what it is or how it occurs.

Anybody can remember a time they were learning a new subject or skill. There's usually a point where it all clicks. One day for example, I picked up my guitar, and could play something comfortably and fluently that I struggled with the last time I tried it, maybe a week before. What happened during that week? No testing, no practice, nobody threatening to hold me back, no promise of a high grade. Some internal process we don't understand, yet we can all recall.

Since we are born such amazing little learning virtuosos, isn't it clear that we should stop trying to take over the process with our clumsy, abusive bumbling? Our goal with education should be to encourage the child to retain as much of her amazing learning abilities as possible; not to start offering carrots and sticks to force her to do what she already does so much better than any adult.

[armani]

I think teacher's should have every right to sell their lesson plans. I mean they make little pay as is , so a little help selling their lesson plans wouldn't hurt anyone.

[Greg guitar]

[QUOTE=Radix;1391874]Government really has no place in the education business.
QUOTE]

Yes let's get rid of public education; America's founders were all wrong about that: let's privatize everything; that way, poor kids will get the education they deserve (as punishment for being poor), from the school of hard knocks. The way things were when Charles Dickens was alive; those were the good old days.

[BillyBee]

Enough already about this myth that teachers being unpaid. They're NOT. Haven't been for a long time.

The average teacher makes about $60,000 per year --- and that's only working 180 days. They get nearly three months off, remember.

Compare that to the average salary of U.S. workers and it will open your eyes.

Teachers work very hard, yes. But you can't call them underpaid by almost any measure.

[drwhogoesthere]

Just now I have had to break up a fight between parents.

When we deal with problem kids we forget that they com 95% of the time from problem homes. The problem is we dont know what goes on in houses. They look good from the outside but what goes on behind close doors.

Let teacher buy and sell lesson plans. In Australia, espeacially in NSW we have a system that encourages teachers to share lesson plans for free. People put up who lesson and term plans.

Why reinvent the wheel.

Look after your teachers, support them. Dont forget that they are human and make mistakes. Plus one bad teacher will not stop your child from having success.

Do you really need to have A grades to be a millionaire? How many people here in this forum didn't do well at school? I didn't. In fact I hated school.

My education came from me wanting to learn. Good or bad teachers had no affect on me. I learned what I needed through reading (taught to me by my parents) and watching a lot of infromative tv shows (no big brother rubbish).

In fact if anybody wants my teaching programs I will happliy give them to you. just pm me. They aren't great but they will give you a start and you can go from there.

As soon as this day is done I think I will undertake the teachers relaxation ritual, beer.

[Audrey Harvey]

Originally Posted by Kevin AKA Hubcap

What's wrong with a teacher purchasing a lesson plan from another teacher.

Of course we expect a teacher to be able to tell the difference between a good lesson plan and a deficient one but IMO that has little to no relevance to the theme of the OP which is teachers selling lesson plans.

Why develop something totally from scratch when you can purchase a plan that that's just as good and has an additional benefit of giving you more time?

Kevin

Sounds a lot like reinventing the wheel. As one of the thousands of homeschooling parents in the world, I've no problems at all with teachers selling their plans. It would save me a ton of time, and I'm off to see if any Aussie teachers are doing the same thing. Drwhogoesthere, if you have any relevant Aussie links, I'd very much appreciate you pm'ing them to me.

[ahlexis]

Originally Posted by Goatboy

When my nephew told me one of his college science teachers was selling his own lectures on video for $5 each I just about hit the floor. It makes no sense to agree to teach a class and then charge for the lessons. I could understand it if the videos were free to the teacher's own students and at a charge to students from other schools.

For some reason this makes sense to me. And here's why.

Going to college = attending classes. Being in the seat, taking the time to attend the lecture. If you miss it for whatever reason, you get to chase other students and/or bug the teacher afterward or do whatever else you need to do in order to catch up, or that part of the course is just gone to you...you don't get to see what you missed. So if the student is sick and misses the class, then the $5 is for seeing what they missed.

In some of the schools today the outline of the class lecture for the day is downloadable prior to the class lecture, making note taking a fill-in-the-blanks exercise where you get to pay a bit closer attention instead of scrambling to write so much. And after class, the student has the option to go and download the podcast of the lecture...for free...if they should choose to do so. At least that's how it currently is at Ohio State University.

So for $5 you can get the actual video, meaning you get almost the exact same experience as the other students who actually showed up for class? Now that I think about it, perhaps $5 per video of the lecture is a bit low...