How Many Of You Associate Your Income With Your Self Worth?

[pheonix44]

I know no one will say they associate their self worth with how much money they make, but do you ever feel the pressure to do just that. I mean think about it, everywhere you go in this country you’re blasted with images of artificial success like how much you make.

How much you own or in the case of most people how much the bank own but you think you own. What kind of car you drive. How expensive your cloths are. I know this is not a good thing to do, but we are constantly bombarded with these images and sometimes cannot help but to do this. This is even more so when we are around people asking us these questions.

It is often very hard to stay humble when you have people trying to value you based off of how much of an opportunity you represent to them. That seems to be all there is when I walk outside my door.

What makes it even worse is that the people who judge you this way often have little to no success themselves. It seems everyone I meet is looking to find the golden goose in someone else and not themselves.

If it is not how much money you make then it is your level of education, what school you went to, what level of degree you have, who your friends are and their status, how attractive and accomplished your mate is, how exclusive or expensive your neighborhood is.

I get sick of all this, I do not want my self worth to be determined by how much I make, I do however want to have the power to help people and I feel the more money I make the more I can do that.

I shy away from those who only wish to use me for their own selfish wants and then throw me away should I fall on hard times. How about those who don’t know you exist when you have no money but then come around once you do?

My questions is, how many of you guys are guilty of associating your income with your self worth, even if you did not mean to.

[Taylor French]

I wouldn't say I associate my self worth with my income level, but it's something similar. I guess if I don't make as much as I feel I should, I begin to question my abilities, my talent, and myself.

I find when I start to question myself, or doubt myself, my performance suffers. It becomes somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Radix]

I certainly use it to judge my productivity and my productivity is a reflection of my work ethic, which is a reflection of me.

Money isn't really a good indicator of success unless your only goal is to make money.

I'd hope even the most simple of humans would have higher aspirations.

[Scott Ames]

I think its natural in our society to do so. Everything is geared toward it.

When I drive the BMW somewhere I get treated much differently than when I take the old car. When I dress nicely I get treated differently than when I wear my sweats.
At a bank that doesn't know me, I get treated so so, but my bank treats me like gold.

How people respond to me does have an impact on how I feel about myself, like it or not.

Ever get treated rudely by a clerk and mumble to yourself " You jerk, you are the one working here for less than $10 an hour and I'm free to shop and do what I want" ?

Like it or not we get a boost in self worth when we are better in some way than another. When someone drives by in a Yugo and I'm driving the BMW I feel superior, not that I am, but the car is and there is a transfer of that feeling. When someone drives by in a newer BMW, I feel less superior. If someone goes by in a Maybach or a Bentley I feel small. Reality or not, the feeling exists.

[Diana Lane]

I like to feel that I can justify the space I take up, but for me that can mean making people happy as much as it can mean making money. Preferably both

[pheonix44]

Money is power. There's no one that can deny that.

More money = More power

It's been that way for hundreds of years...

I'm going to throw a think and grow rich line at you. Isn't the real power in knowing how to make money and the money just a physical manifestation of that. If I know how to make all the money I want I'll never be afraid to lose it. So the more I know how to make money the more power I have, because no one can ever take that away from me. I can lose my money in a lawsuit, divorce, medical emergencies and the like. But as long as the knowledge is stored upstairs I can make that money back. Now that's real power.

[JohnMcCabe]

I won't lie and say there's no connection. Income is one of the major ways to keep score in a game I've chosen to enter. So in that regard, my ability to demonstrate how well I can play the game is connected to my self-image. Like anyone else, I feel better when I'm winning than when I'm losing.

But that's only one aspect...

I also feed my feelings of worth when I behave according to my own sense of ethics. Suppose I'm fishing all alone, and I catch a nice fish that is either outside the size limits or out of season. No one would ever find out if I simply slipped it into my cooler and kept it. Yet I'll still release that fish because to not do so would diminish my self-worth.

There's a whole laundry list that goes into how I feel about myself at any given time. Income, strictly speaking, is a very small factor in that particular algorithm...

[BigRedNotebook]

For what it's worth... The second I gave up on the idea that my income and my value as a human being were somehow related was basically the very second that I started making money.

We're more than our checking account balances. When we recognize that, it changes things in a very profound way.

Don't get me wrong--I'm as interested in turning a buck as anyone else is. I'm just saying that approaching moneymaking with a larger perspective than "gotta get richer" in mind has really worked out well.

[oilboil]

I definitely agree with you guys. I've had thoughts like that too, in which someone who clearly makes more money than me seems superior and more important, while someone who I know makes less money than me seems less important. But in reality, our incomes are not a reflection of ourselves. There are plenty of bad people who make good money and vice versa. Likewise, there are plenty of people who make a lot of money without really having a lot of talent or skill. For whatever reasons, some people are able to achieve high positions without as much hard work. While others work very hard but can never get a high position. So work and self are not really related and it's important that we try to keep that in mind.

[pheonix44]

For what it's worth... The second I gave up on the idea that my income and my value as a human being were somehow related was basically the very second that I started making money.

We're more than our checking account balances. When we recognize that, it changes things in a very profound way.

Don't get me wrong--I'm as interested in turning a buck as anyone else is. I'm just saying that approaching moneymaking with a larger perspective than "gotta get richer" in mind has really worked out well

I try to remember that as well, afterall what good would it be to achieve a goal if I'm always saying more more more.

[graham41]

Money isn't everything.. but in the material world that this world's culture based on everything is based on accessto money / influence.

Any one who says that money is not critically important has never experienced to real downs of life.

The pursuit of wealth is why 99% of us visit this board so often.

Let's stop being hypocrites and accept it- this money is not extremely important is BS

g

[jazbo]

I totally base my success on the amount of money I make, thats the point of it all I think?

[zcx]

> Associate Your Income With Your Self Worth?

Oh, hell yeah. I've often been both amazed and amused at how drastically my outlook on everything, including myself, changes with the numbers. Hahaha is there anyone here who hasn't had that surge of sheer euphoria on a dead, no-sales day when a sale finally comes in?

I think that's just kind of inherent in the sales/marketing game, though, isn't it? I've been involved with sales and marketing for more than thirty years and I've really never known anyone in the industry who didn't "take it personally" to some extent when the numbers were bad.

[Kevin Riley]

Not!

Money is just something I need to go to the restaurants I like to frequent, for Rieko to buy the clothes she likes, for us to travel.

My self worth has nothing to do with making money. However, I do get a feeling of pride from my products. I'll spend hours on one little extra touch (which no customer may ever notice, but I know it's there) just because that gives me the feeling of having produced something magnificent. And, my pride is part of my self worth.

[Frank Donovan]

I don't want to get too zen about this - but if you don't get a sufficient sense of self-worth out of simply being alive, then money, or anything external, is never going to be more than just a crutch for you.


Frank

[pheonix44]

I totally base my success on the amount of money I make, thats the point of it all I think?

Not your success, your self worth. If you lost it all today would you still feel good enough?

[Daniel E Taylor]

This is where "Spirituality" however you choose to
define it comes in.

Using anything outside of your self to create
your identity is only going to lead to struggle.

Because of the nature of the universe everything
changes. So you can be driving a Mazda today
and a Maserati tomorrow.

And vice versa... You can be driving a Maserati
today and a Mazda Tomorrow.

So our quest as humans is trying to find a balance
between inner peace and external wealth.

I know sometimes it gets hard for me as someone mentioned
because of how DIFFERENT we are programmed to treat
people we percieve as successful.

When I go out in a T-shirt and baskeball shorts I get
a certain response, and when I go out dressed for business
I get another.

Look superior, and you get treated superior in todays society.

That's just the way it is.

Daniel

[Brad Gosse]

I have lost plenty of money along the way. It makes me feel like crap. I also feel great when I earn money.

I don't associate my self worth with cash by any stretch but it sure does feel good/safe/awesome to have a fat bank account.

[Jag82]

Income doesn't equate to self-worth! No way!

Making money makes you feel good. But there's more to that.

For a start, why not equate self worth to how much other give back to you due to
the fact they received so much value/care/love from you in the 1st place?


Napoleon Hill is that "thought" is the only thing we can control at will.

Even if you are down in the dumps...if you keep telling yourself you
will do it...you will keep your chin up...and fight...you will inevitably make it.

You are what you think you are worth. Only you can control that.

And if you are thinking that your self worth is not way higher that
your income, you are probably massively selling yourself short.

Jag

[armani]

Making money is one thing but associating the amount you make to how much you should value yourself is one thing. But others might judge your selfworth based on material things .

[selma]

Money means more when you don't have it.

When you feel secure, which is totally subjective (some people feel secure with x amount of money and x amount of whatever material objects), you are more apt to feel successful.

But when you don't feel secure, thats when you realize what everyone else has and what you are lacking.

----
But to answer the question, I think money is important and I hate when people act like its not. Money is power and that power you can use to not only change your life, but to change your families, communities, etc. With money you can make not only business projects work but also social projects that can better our world.

I don't think people with more money are better people, but I do feel like they are more powerful with more opportunities, etc.

This is a global thing its not just in the US.

[pheonix44]

I don't think people with more money are better people, but I do feel like they are more powerful with more opportunities, etc

And that is exactly what I hope to be very soon. Good response

[Michael Oksa]

Is money important? Sure. But that doesn't mean anything when it comes to self-worth. I have never equated how much I have, or don't have, with who I am as a person.

Ever.

Ever get treated rudely by a clerk and mumble to yourself " You jerk, you are the one working here for less than $10 an hour and I'm free to shop and do what I want" ?

I can honestly say a thought like that has NEVER entered into my mind for even a second. It's just not something I think about.

How others treat me based on what I wear, drive, or earn is a reflection of THEIR attaching money to self-worth, not vice-versa. I don't judge people on those things. On the other hand, I can be quite judgmental, but those things aren't part of the criteria - the type of person you are is what counts.

Do I like having more money rather than less? YES!!! But it has absolutely nothing to do with how I look at who I am as a person.

All the best,
Michael

[dorothydot]

I had the honor of being the first woman Forest Ranger... for 12 years. Every single Ranger I worked with said that we all were in this job for the love of it - since as state employees we most certainly were far from rich!

And yes, I must agree with them.

Dot

[acrasial]

I would love to believe that this applies to someone I know, but I may be wrong there. However I do have that impression that this person may link their self worth sometimes to their bank account, or more so how much success they have which in turn fills up the piggy bank.


I guess for some it may be an obsession to always get further in life, and this is often the social standard to make more money, and increase your financial status, which in turn can also help you make life more comfortable if you are planning on using this to help your family.


it can also impress people, including your family... on some level and even sometimes make them proud. I would think it's really a psychological thing linking back to insecurities, but then again every human being has insecurities.

[Kelly Verge]

Jeremiah 17:7-8

[ripperdav]

Hmmm, that's a very interesting question, with some great answers.

Personally, I don't equate my self worth by how much money I make.

I think you have to look at it in reverse. The more I give (which relates to my self worth as it makes us feel good about ourselves)...then, the more I'll get back in return monetarily eventually.

[pheonix44]

Hmmm, that's a very interesting question, with some great answers.

Personally, I don't equate my self worth by how much money I make.

I think you have to look at it in reverse. The more I give (which relates to my self worth as it makes us feel good about ourselves)...then, the more I'll get back in return monetarily eventually.

You know I once read a book called the science of getting rich that told me the same thing. I did not understand how it worked, but now I'm beginning to see.

[tjoeckel]

I'd say that I don't associate my self worth with my income directly, although I always feel better about myself when I am making good money. This isn't directly from having more money, though (at least in my mind.) To me, the better feeling comes from a sense of security. When I don't have to worry about bills, or how I am going to come up with enough money to feed my kids, I have a sense of peace that I don't have when I'm broke.

[Martin Percival]

That's a really interesting question....and one that I know gets debated all the time, particularly with all the lay-offs etc happening to folk recently.

I guess I'd want to turn it on its head a bit. I chose to leave my job when my old company was taken over (doh! could have been a stupid move, but hey!)

At the time I was on a pretty good salary and I've been unable to bring myself to look at jobs which are a long way below that. So, I'm thinking the income comes as a result of my worth...not "provides" it.

So, arrogant? Who knows? At least I've thought about it

[RobertSeviour]

How happy are people in wealthy countries? Is it more, less or the same as those in poor ones?

If you've done a bit of travelling, you'll know that there isn't a lot of difference; if anything the wealthy have it worse because they have to fear loss more than the poor.

I have a theory that over the centuries human happiness has averaged out to a fairly constant level - excluding wartimes and famines etc

The key factors determining happiness are to be found in Maslow's hierarchy of motivations; money has only a contributory, not a principal, role.

After satisfying physiological needs, social acceptance is dominant.

[Martin Percival]

That's an interesting one Robert. I think we would like to believe that, but I saw a report recently that showed a marked difference in "happiness" between wealthier and poorer countries.

I'll see if I can find it again.... (not sure...UN report?)

[AffiliateInABox1]

I\'d say to some degree yes, and I think most people do. If you aren\'t \"making\" a lot of money, it means that you either don\'t know \'how\' to reach people that could use your product or service, or that you aren\'t providing the value necessary to make them want to pay for it. Either way, generally speaking if you aren\'t making the income you want, it means that you have to correct something with yourself, make some kind of self-improvement, such that you can get to that level.

[pheonix44]

I'd say that I don't associate my self worth with my income directly, although I always feel better about myself when I am making good money. This isn't directly from having more money, though (at least in my mind.) To me, the better feeling comes from a sense of security. When I don't have to worry about bills, or how I am going to come up with enough money to feed my kids, I have a sense of peace that I don't have when I'm broke.

I think that especially as men we tend to value ourselves based off of how much money we had. You have to admit, I don't care how good of a man you were, if you could not pay the bills I wonder would the wife be okay with it.

[sande]

Money is tied to emotions. If you have no money and you go into a family gathering and you have to borrow your fare back it is in a way humiliating. I may not want to associate money with self worth but it sure does feel good to have money.
Grace

[RobertSeviour]

Originally Posted by Finesse

That's an interesting one Robert. I think we would like to believe that, but I saw a report recently that showed a marked difference in "happiness" between wealthier and poorer countries.

I'll see if I can find it again.... (not sure...UN report?)

It would be interesting to read the report. I wonder how they 'measure' happiness.

Do you know the story (which I will abridge) of the rich American who visits a tropical island? He gets a local to take him out fishing and catches some big fish. He says to the islander, "You could make a lot of money selling fish like this in the US. Why don't you get organised, buy a bigger boat, hire some other guys and ship your catch to New York?" The islander asks, "What for?". The American says, "Why you could make a million dollars and retire out to the Carribean and go fishing whenever you wanted".

[MichaelHiles]

My daughter thinks I am the greatest person in the entire universe because dadadada will sit in the middle of the living room floor and help her make confetti out of mail order catelogs and teach her how to throw her toys over the baby gate to help keep mommy from getting bored when dadadadada isn't there to be silly.

Her opinion matters more to me than anyone else's.

[pheonix44]

My daughter thinks I am the greatest person in the entire universe because dadadada will sit in the middle of the living room floor and help her make confetti out of mail order catelogs and teach her how to throw her toys over the baby gate to help keep mommy from getting bored when dadadadada isn't there to be silly.

Her opinion matters more to me than anyone else's

That's nice, if only they could stay that way forever. But eventually she will be influenced by the media or school friends into wanting the latest and greatest gadgets, designer cloths, car etc etc.All of which cost money to buy. Some kids really begin to resent the parents when they cannot get them these things.

[STKING]

My self worth is totally tied to my ranking and my sales. It is so sad. I cannot believe that a high sales day can make me euphoric and then a drought makes me feel like I know nothing. The rollercoaster!

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by pheonix44

That's nice, if only they could stay that way forever. But eventually she will be influenced by the media or school friends into wanting the latest and greatest gadgets, designer cloths, car etc etc.All of which cost money to buy. Some kinds really begin to resent the parents when they cannot get them these things.

My job, as a parent, is to teach my children the proper perspective of money (a basic tool of value exchange), and the way to generate it for themselves (systematic flows of liquid capital vs. selling your labor).

This is tied to the purpose and use of said capital, which doesn't involve the dysfunctional psychology of consumerism as it is tied to gratification.

If my child chooses shiny objects that depreciate over core values such as individual worth and purpose, and appreciating assets, then I haven't done a very good job as a parent.

Yes, we promote a very elitist, borderline arrogant viewpoint that consumerism is a dysfunction, designed to compensate for emotional inadequacies - and to view people who consume based on media influence as "lower class".

Homeschooling helps.

Refusal to consume commercial broadcast media is another fundamental.

We have these amazing things called books.

[Tomwood]

My personal opinion is that it's the other way around you need a sense of self worth before you make a significant amount of money and keep it

[pheonix44]

My personal opinion is that it's the other way around you need a sense of self worth before you make a significant amount of money and keep it

For along time I did not understand this, you will not make alot of money and then just feel good about yourself. If you don't feel this way first then making money will be hard.

[seasoned]

If I considered my worth to be only what I made, I would have to consider poor people beneath me, and rich above. Frankly, I ENVY some poor and PITY some rich! So I would have to say NO WAY!

Steve

[Daniel E Taylor]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

Yes, we promote a very elitist, borderline arrogant viewpoint that consumerism is a dysfunction, designed to compensate for emotional inadequacies - and to view people who consume based on media influence as "lower class".

I seriously hope you aren't teaching your kid any
stupid crap like that.

Daniel

[MichaelHiles]

Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor

I seriously hope you aren't teaching your kid any
stupid crap like that.

Daniel

"Lower class" was certainly an oversimplification for an abbreviated post, but yes, in a nutshell, we teach our kids that people who are swayed emotionally by mass media to consume based on typical brand positioning do not make financial decisions based on rational thought process.

The ability to control one's emotions long enough to take pause before making a purchase, and defining the basis of need vs. want, and then further exercising self control over want, demonstrates a mastery of one's self.

My understanding comes from working with multi-million dollar marketing research firms (like Burke) for many years. I understand the lengths that major consumer product firms go to in order to manipulate behavioral psychology. I also understand how the entire media industry has deconstructed society, and re-synthesized it based on the consumer behavior models that have been tested and proven. I'm talking about social engineering on a widespread scale that it borders on "The Matrix".

When someone lives at that eschelon for the length of time that I have, you realize how much of a facade the present social construct really is, and the purpose of its existence - a fundamental basis of our refusing to consume broadcast media.

We teach our children that to be able to transcend beyond the Wizard's Curtain, one must exercise emotional self-control, and disengage from the vectors of exposure. We replace these with time-tested knowledge that took thousands of years of civilization and human development to compile and evaluate.

You tell me who is stupid and who isn't.

[Taylor French]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

My job, as a parent, is to teach my children the proper perspective of money (a basic tool of value exchange), and the way to generate it for themselves (systematic flows of liquid capital vs. selling your labor).

This is tied to the purpose and use of said capital, which doesn't involve the dysfunctional psychology of consumerism as it is tied to gratification.

If my child chooses shiny objects that depreciate over core values such as individual worth and purpose, and appreciating assets, then I haven't done a very good job as a parent.

Yes, we promote a very elitist, borderline arrogant viewpoint that consumerism is a dysfunction, designed to compensate for emotional inadequacies - and to view people who consume based on media influence as "lower class".

Homeschooling helps.

Refusal to consume commercial broadcast media is another fundamental.

We have these amazing things called books.

That's all well and good, and it sounds good on paper. But your kids will make their own decisions in the end.

This is a "fictional" example, but I've seen it mirrored in real life many times:

Alex P. Keaton on Family Ties became a very conservative Republican, while both of his parents were basically extremely liberal hippies.

In fact, a lot of my friends growing up specifically went against their parents' values as a way to rebel and "be their own person".

It's great to teach your kids your values, and more parents should spend time doing that, but in the end, it's up to your kids whether they will follow your example. And not all of them do.

[Kelly Verge]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

You tell me who is stupid and who isn't.

Michael,

A. I agree with you.

B. He didn't call you stupid.

[Daniel E Taylor]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

"Lower class" was certainly an oversimplification for an abbreviated post, but yes, in a nutshell, we teach our kids that people who are swayed emotionally by mass media to consume based on typical brand positioning do not make financial decisions based on rational thought process.

The ability to control one's emotions long enough to take pause before making a purchase, and defining the basis of need vs. want, and then further exercising self control over want, demonstrates a mastery of one's self.

My understanding comes from working with multi-million dollar marketing research firms (like Burke) for many years. I understand the lengths that major consumer product firms go to in order to manipulate behavioral psychology. I also understand how the entire media industry has deconstructed society, and re-synthesized it based on the consumer behavior models that have been tested and proven. I'm talking about social engineering on a widespread scale that it borders on "The Matrix".

When someone lives at that eschelon for the length of time that I have, you realize how much of a facade the present social construct really is, and the purpose of its existence - a fundamental basis of our refusing to consume broadcast media.

We teach our children that to be able to transcend beyond the Wizard's Curtain, one must exercise emotional self-control, and disengage from the vectors of exposure. We replace these with time-tested knowledge that took thousands of years of civilization and human development to compile and evaluate.

You tell me who is stupid and who isn't.

Your preaching to the choir. I don't even watch TV, I know
the programming being done on every level of consciousness from
the low vibrational energetic state they keep us in, to the subconscious
patterns programmed into us by the media and society.

All that's well and fine.

But to teach kids to see anyone as "Lower class" because they
unfortunately haven't been able to see that they've been programmed
is terrible.

To teach kids they are "Better" than someone else is horsh*T. That isn't
helping the kid at all. In fact it creates an INFERIORITY complex in the
child.

So that is what I call stupid crap.

Daniel

[sashagrey]

I probably do this more than I should

Money shouldn't be what we base our self-worth on but it's hard not to do it.

[Frank Donovan]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

We teach our children that to be able to transcend beyond the Wizard's Curtain, one must exercise emotional self-control, and disengage from the vectors of exposure. We replace these with time-tested knowledge that took thousands of years of civilization and human development to compile and evaluate.

Wow. I had to make do with Sesame Street.



Frank