Yo Big Mike - Licensing Rant Here

[kindsvater]

The Incansoft website is down, which means the software I want to use RIGHT NOW to finish a project will not load because it cannot connect to some server halfway around the world to verify my license.

Urgh.

There's a reason why I tend to shy away from monthly fee sites, online software, online licensing, etc. I hate being at the mercy of someone else.

Eg., no Aweber for me. I own my autoresponder software.

If you're like me, your hard drive is littered with files you paid for, but can no longer access or use because someone else has gone out of business, their website is down, etc.

If you're like me, you then start looking for warez, crackz, etc. Not because you don't want to pay for software - but because you want to use the software you've already paid for.

(And don't get me started on the massive headaches when I try to exchange an old computer for a newer model.)

There's got to be a better way.

Programmers - Why can't "online licensing checks" only be done the 1st time software is installed?

.

[Matt Jutras]

This is a good point.

I was relying on a certain piece of software to help me finish up some work a couple of weeks ago, and it wouldn't work. Like you said in your situation, it required a connection to a server...which was down for about 5 or 6 days.

I understand that product creators need to keep piracy to a minimum, but the end result of my situation is that I absolutely refuse to buy any more of this person's products.

Ever.

And I had my eyes on one he was selling for over $800...but will not even think of purchasing after the fiasco of not being able to use something that I paid for.


I cannot stand to be inconvenienced, and potentially shut out of access to something that I paid for if this person decides to close up shop, dies, or whatever else would cause the disabling of the required server.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

I know how you feel. I have software from a major software company. Under the terms of my license, I can install it on two computers.

Well, the initial computer I installed it on had a hard drive crash. So, I could not uninstall that copy. I installed a copy on a new hard drive.

When I went to install the software on a new computer, it wouldn't let me because I already had two copies installed!

I had to call and explain this, and then they walked me through uninstalling it on the old computer so I could install on the new, which I could have done myself. I couldn't get them to understand that the first copy I had installed is on a hard drive that is deceased, dead, pushing up tulips, ununinstallable, finite, deader than a door nail, etc.

I didn't push the issue, since I wasn't going to use that older computer anymore anyway and I just wanted to be able to use it on my newer computer.

Still, I expect it is going to be a fun phone call whenever I get a second computer that I want to install my second license on...

This is another reason why I use online tools ... Don't have these issues..

James

[kindsvater]

Matt -

Don't get me wrong about Incansoft software. It's awesome - I must have a dozen different titles and I highly recommend their products (even with the licensing rant).

It's still frustrating to think that one hard to find mistake in an .htaccess file, or a php file, or some hacker, or a million other things that can take down a website - stalls my project.

[samstephens]

Programmers - Why can't "online licensing checks" only be done the 1st time software is installed?

Generally speaking, this is to stop refund scams.

I know this doesn't help, but just explaining why multiple checks are often done.

cheers
Sam

[Deanna Taber]

Thank you- I thought I was the only one that this was happening too. Now I know I'm not going crazy.

[banks]

Originally Posted by kindsvater

Programmers - Why can't "online licensing checks" only be done the 1st time software is installed?

.

Because this means either the software, a file or registry entry on your PC has to "remember" it's activated. Then it's like the software has no protection at all, this remembered setting gets uploaded to rapidshare along with the program and 5,000 people also don't need to verify they paid for it.

Validating an application each use is a pain i know, along with many other things. For instance the other night someone ran a "vulnerability scanner" on my contact form trying to hack the site and get the download and in the process they generated 14,000 emails in my inbox. I had legitimate orders in amongst it and had to pick them out by hand. Then there's the fraud orders, i have 8 in about the last 3 weeks.

Trust me, i hate the whole serial/activation thing as much as you do it's a pain in the neck. But when you spend 16 hours a day, 7 days a week working on something you have to protect it the best way you can.

[um1001]

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

This is another reason why I use online tools ... Don't have these issues..

James

Well technically James, you're at the mercy of your online tools being available online ... It's the same, only differnt....

...Just saying

[tj]

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

This is another reason why I use online tools ... Don't have these issues..

James

Well - they can be down too ....

Timo

Originally Posted by um1001

Well technically James, you're at the mercy of your online tools being available online ... It's the same, only differnt....

...Just saying

This is true Jack .. But the online tools I use are my own ... So if I have a server issue I fix it.

James

[Rob Whisonant]

When I do use a phone home routine in any of the software I create I do the following.

It first checks for an Internet connection.

It then trys to phone home.

If it can't reach the license server within a set number of seconds, it quits trying and let's the software run anyway.

This way it can check for a license and disable the software if needed but does not penalize the purchaser if the license server is down or not reachable for some reason.

If it does not detect an Internet connection it does not run unless it is software that does not need Internet access.

Re's
Rob Whisonant

[Russell Hall]

I can relate to this scenario 100%.

Sure you can always (or mostly) get a hack or keygen for the majority of server based products, but even then, if the service providers server is down then you still can't use the software.
I've had a few PC crashes and had to reinstall software, and in a couple of cases even lost the original copy but each time I just contacted the seller with my Paypal proof of purchase (file copy easily located using Gmail search) and the seller has always sent me a new file.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by banks

Because this means either the software, a file or registry entry on your PC has to "remember" it's activated. Then it's like the software has no protection at all, this remembered setting gets uploaded to rapidshare along with the program and 5,000 people also don't need to verify they paid for it.

Once authentication succeeds, store a hash value generated from the IP address and software version, and a time you last verified.

If you can't reach the server, check the time. If it's more than (say) 14 days, tell the user that you need to contact the server to authenticate.

If it's less, check the hash. If it doesn't match, tell the user that you need to contact the server to authenticate.

Throughout the program, check the hash now and then. If it doesn't match, try to authenticate, and if you can't - tell the user you've hit error 347 and to call support.

If he calls with error 347, then he can't contact your server AND it's been less than two weeks since he authenticated AND his IP address doesn't match. So if your server is working, and you don't see him authenticating within the past two weeks, he's clearly tried to disable your software's piracy protection.

[Kurt]

Some of my software needs to verify...However, I use a system were I have the verification on two totally seperate servers/hosts. If the software can't find the main server, then it tries the second and only needs for one of the servers to be online for the verification to take place.

As cheap as hosting is today, there's really no excuse not to have a backup verification process.

Also, I agree about licensing. I license my stuff to a single BUYER, not computer. You can use it on as many PCs as you want, for your own use. IMO, this is how (virtually) all software should be. PCs aren't meant to last forever and it's really not fair to have customers pay again whenever they replace their PCs. Plus, why can't they use it on more than one PC at a time?

[banks]

Originally Posted by Kurt

Some of my software needs to verify...However, I use a system were I have the verification on two totally seperate servers/hosts. If the software can't find the main server, then it tries the second and only needs for one of the servers to be online for the verification to take place.

Exactly, there no need for checking and hashing and timers and IP's or whatever else. Eliminate the single point of failure, simple as that.

[Rob Whisonant]

Originally Posted by banks

Exactly, there no need for checking and hashing and timers and IP's or whatever else. Eliminate the single point of failure, simple as that.

Got to keep in mind that it's NOT always the server down. It could easily be any point along the way between your client and your server. If it's a point in route that has to be gone through by the client to reach either server they will both not be reachable.

Two completely different hosts may still be only reachable through a specific route even though they are in different parts of the US or the world.

Re's
Rob Whisonant

[BIG Mike]

The problem is resolved and the server is back online – Diego and John both caught the problem right after it happened and went straight to work on it, not to mention dragging me out of bed at 4:30 this morning to help

In any event, we do apologize for the inconvenience…and we understand it’s a pain in the ass - no question about it. Fortunately, it’s not something that occurs very often, and we do have contingency plans in place to deal with it on several levels to minimize the disruption to customers.

Let’s be clear though that this is not an everyday occurrence and certainly something we hate to see happen as much as anyone does. It wasn’t long ago that online services like Gmail and PayPal went down for a few hours each, as did BlackBerry last year. The fact is, no matter how many brains you throw on it, somewhere along the line, something unexpected is bound to happen.

I’m not making excuses, just pointing out that as desktop applications depend more and more on internet connectivity, and even standalone web applications themselves, it’s one more link in the chain that might break. And it will – no one is immune from it, regardless of what they may think or claim here.

It’s not just the licensing issue, but as we migrate our Incansoft applications toward thin client operability, they become more dependent on everything working properly. This is not just something we’re doing, but pretty much everyone is. The tradeoff is more robust functionality, preservation of data and more social interaction (sharing data, groupware, etc.) and well worth it.

@Kurt – I’m not sure if you were specifically talking about Incansoft, but to clarify – we do not require customers to buy a new license when changing PC’s. We license per computer, which means only one license can be used on one computer. We don’t license per person and allow them to use it on more than one computer at a time because then it gets shared everywhere (VA’s, partners, etc.) It’s the industry standard licensing schema that everyone from Microsoft on down uses and it’s not new.

As to the licensing issue in general, unless you’re producing and selling really popular software, you probably don’t realize just how much of an impact the shared/pirated software problem is for us. We can track their attempts to use it and we even get members here who stupidly upload their copy and license to these sites.

I’m not talking about a handful of shared copies, but literally thousands of them. And you’ll love this…In the past week alone, I’ve gotten emails from 3 people who downloaded RSSBot from a file sharing site, used the crack and got infected with a Trojan and are threatening to sue us, LOL.

What’s sad about this is that we develop and deploy really top quality software at ridiculously low prices – and the cheap bastards out there that would rather risk a virus or Trojan through pirating software rather than springing a measly few bucks for it, never ceases to amaze me.

And while some folks may say “So what” They won’t buy it anyways”, the fact is we invest a lot of money into every product we develop and expect a reasonable ROI on them. The problem has gotten so bad even Microsoft is doing this now, where just 2 years ago they weren’t.

So that’s my counter-rant and again, I am sorry it screwed up your day Brian (along with anyone else affected). All I can say is that we’re committed to providing a quality user experience and while not perfect, we’re trying.

[GeorgR.]

Which reminds me i wanted to fire up RSSBot yesterday and seems i lost my license key (probably because i installed Windows 7)..so i need a way to get the key back. Help appreciated!

G.

Edit: Yes, servers can go down..and, yes, my RSSBot is legit

[banks]

Originally Posted by Rob Whisonant

Got to keep in mind that it's NOT always the server down. It could easily be any point along the way between your client and your server. If it's a point in route that has to be gone through by the client to reach either server they will both not be reachable.

Two completely different hosts may still be only reachable through a specific route even though they are in different parts of the US or the world.

Re's
Rob Whisonant

When someone cannot access 2 of Americas biggest data centers yeah there's definitely problems.

[BIG Mike]

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

Which reminds me i wanted to fire up RSSBot yesterday and seems i lost my license key (probably because i installed Windows 7)..so i need a way to get the key back. Help appreciated!

G.

Edit: Yes, servers can go down..and, yes, my RSSBot is legit

You can go here:

Incansoft | Experience The Difference Today!

Enter your PayPal email address and the Product Code (IS0012) and click Recover key - you'll be sent the original download info and the key