Is this a dishonest marketer?

[lakshaybehl]

To answer the question: Yes, dishonest. At the core. Unless of course he met an accident or something terrible happened to him (Am I to assume a male here?), I am sure he should have refunded the money.

Heck I never got the point of 365 day guarantees? What's the point if someone has to forget that they bought something from you?

I believe its better to have them remember their first and second and third purchase from you.

Anyhow... funny how people are. Most guys around are cool, really, but some aren't. And the best part is- You obviously seem to have tested it all out. It didn't work.

Get a refund. But I wouldn't waste my time reporting him to 1001 places if I didn't get it. I'd call him though and see if he's going to refund ever.

-Lakshay

P.S. 500 gigs is a lot of markting info... An offline consultant wouldn't have more than 10 Marketing DVD's on their table. That's the max I have seen to date. Just saying- You need to SELL stuff in order to make money, not BUY stuff.

[Chris Koltai]

This is an open and shut case in my opinion. If your refund policy says 365 days, be prepared to refund your customers promptly for 365 days. Don't like it? Easy fix, shorten the length of your guarantee.

If you don't have money on hand to fill a refund request, you probably shouldn't be teaching anyone how to make money online.

And really, what's with the couple of people ragging on the buyer here? He entered into a contract when he bought the product, and when he realized the product wasn't living up to its promises, he invoked his rights under said contract. I hate refund requests as much as the next guy, no one likes losing money... But guys, it's the nature of the beast. Don't project your personal refund anxiety on to this guy just for acting within his rights

[seanyd]

I also had a problem like this , didn`t like the product , was nothing new, asked for a refund and heard nothing , sent a second email heard nothing, so I just went through PayPal and filed a dispute . Got a refund in 2 days because PayPal froze their account.

[NY1]

Yes, I would say this is not just a dishonest marketer, but obviously someone that knows little about business in general. You have to keep a certain amount of your business liquid or else you have to deal with the ramifications.

If you post a 365 day guarantee to increase sales, you have to deal with the fact that people can legally get a refund up until day number 365.

This is not opinion, this is fact.

This thread shows a lot of what's wrong with internet marketing. Most people that market on line just think about making money and NOT about running a business.

The moment you begin to market products and sell products online, you have a business. Therefore, you have to treat it like a business. Not just in your strategies to make money, but also the legal nature of business as well.

It's not a lottery win when you make a sale, it's a business transaction.

Too many people sell products online and know not a thing about business law, what's legal/illegal. All they focus on is, can I put some quick cash in my pocket.

Just my 2 cents and I know people will disagree, but that is why most people fail online and also why so many of the infomercial marketers of the 1980's lost everything.

Because they would not make refunds.

[ScottTMc]

For me i would give him that final chance, if he was to then say another 2 weeks i'd proberbly go crazy at him and tell him i expected the money in my account in 2 days max, if not then go for it, post it wherever you feel and put up those domains

[keweus]

Don't offer a guarantee that you can't live up to, or uphold.

"Spending" the money you make selling stuff isn't a sufficient reason to delay, or
refuse a refund, that's just plain silly and irresponsible.

The buyer has a right to cancel and demand a refund, and all those imposing moral
judgment on that decision need to rethink being in the business of selling stuff to consumers, or they will have a very hard time.

The best policy for a seller is to honor your guarantees, regardless of what they are, or how you feel about people who take you up on them. If your guarantees cause you to lose money, PERHAPS your product sucks, or perhaps your guarantee invites and almost solicits refunds, so MAYBE it's your own fault?

PS - this guys just bought himself a bucket full of bad press for $200, when in fact, he could have perhaps turned it into a positive experience by directly dealing with the buyer, listening to his concerns and reasons for wanting a refund, and acting swiftly to make the buyer happy.

[patselby]

I absolutely agree with you that this monoey should have been refunded immediately. I would be like you; not wanting to disclose the person's name. That means that you a good person. Whom ever it is that is not giving you the refund should be extremely happy that you are a good person and realize that not everyone would be that understanding and patient.

[Ashley Gable]

I think you are very much entitled to be pi**ed!

I offer a 365 money back guarantee on my products (not im) and if I even get a hint that the customer doesnt like it ... I will refund them. The last thing I want is to be sued by them or anyone. Nor do I want bad word of mouth.

I would say contact paypal first, maybe he is down on his luck, and contacting the FTC would be a last resort ... for me at least.

Hope you get it sorted out. I did have a similar same thing happen on ebay though once, I received the item, which cost $300, it wasnt complete, and he strung me along just long enough for the "complaint period" to expire! uggh some people!

[sbucciarel]

Originally Posted by gibbey

You risk nothing! You have a No-Risk 365 Days 100% Money-Back Guarantee! .....

I am ready to complain to PayPal, his ISP, the FTC, the BBB and to create several websites warning others of what I have gone through....

A No-Risk 365 Day 100% Money Back Guarantee raises red flags for me. I would not believe it. I would believe a 1, 2, 3 month guarantee, but not a year.

It sounds like he doesn't have the money. You're wasting your time with Paypal. Long past due to even file a dispute. Also waste of time to contact the ISP. They don't get involved in purchase disputes. I've emailed the FTC ... nothing came of it. I doubt some ebook seller is going to be worried about the BBB. Actually, you have little recourse other than don't purchase from him again at this late stage in the game.

[Jill Carpenter]

Originally Posted by D89

You are making assumptions. Do you know this person personally?

Have you ever heard of a crisis? Things happen that people dont expect.

We cannot jump to conclusions and beat down on someone without knowing.


I think the buyer is just as at fault too.

1. The buyer is in no way at fault. None, what so ever. He is in his time frame to ask for a refund. End of story. He does not need to provide why it took him as long as it did to ask for a refund.

2. Yes, crap happens. And a seller would be in a much better position to be honest up front, explain he is having issues, working to resolve the issue, will do what ever to get the man his money back, and if the seller has half a brain he would go beg, borrow, plead, pawn something - what ever to get this guy his refund.

And then, this guy has a new product - and should have offered that for FREE IMO if he is causing this distress to the buyer.

If you bought from this guy that package here on the WF please do us a favor and post on the thread you purchased from - if you get your refund or not either way. It will allow other buyers to make an informed choice of if they want to risk a purchase.

Good luck on Monday.

[Daniel E Taylor]

A few answers in the thread show that
some of you aren't real business owners it's sad
that you're allowed to give advice to other business
owners IMO.

LOL @ running out of money. Well that's what happens
when you hustle on the internet and not run a real business.

A real business first off wouldn't take 100% of the money
out of the business to do anything. Not even a product launch.

Every business should have a retainer fund. I mean you put
all your money into a product launch and you don't have
$200 left for a refund. That would have to be the dumbest
business owner in the world.

Like I say. We honor every refund ASAP. If you are hurt over
1 little refund than you obviously don't have the capacity to
run a full-scale successful business in my opinion.

Daniel

[Steven D Smith]

It's nice to see a lot of support being offered to the OP today. It was disappointing to see some Warrior Forum members supporting the seller last night.

Honoring a guarantee is a virtue every member of this forum should have. I have no problem with a seller who states upfront that there is no guarantee.

However, if a seller offers one he must honor it.

Steve

[keweus]

LOOKIE: Power Web Copywriting Made Simple

Make up your own mind, why is a measly $200 not being refunded right away?

[JeffLam]

keweus,

I hope that web page isn't yours...

..because I honestly felt quite turn off from his copywriting on that page to even want to buy that copywriting course from him.

What with all the numerous underlines and what not.

And he doesn't state the price anywhere (until all the way at the paypal page)! That's quite ridiculous. So it's free?

You know what? I feel a mini course on "How to Do Money Back Guarantees the Right Way" is in order.

[PRsubmits]

Interesting perspectives here.

While many products sold on Clickbank don't live up to the claims on the sales page, at least one knows if you refund it will be prompt and no questions asked.

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by D89

However it is clear that something is wrong here, 5 months...come on!

The only thing wrong here is the guy doesn't want to honor his refund policy. Well, that, and him teaching others how to make money online when he can't even scrape together $200 of his own over 30 days.

[Profit-smart]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

My general expectation is that if you are going to ask for a refund, you'll do it within a month. If you're busy or really trying hard, you'll do it within two months. And after three months, if you were going to ask for a refund, you'd have done it already.

So if it's been over three months since your purchase, it doesn't seem reasonable that you'd expect me to have your money in my pocket right now. Particularly during a product launch, when everything I have might be committed to the launch.

THAT SAID... if it had been me, I would have been a lot more frank and open about it. I would have said something like this:

"Wow, I generally don't expect anyone to ask for a refund after the three-month mark; all of my available money is committed to a product launch right now, so it will be some time - at least a couple weeks - before I can send you the cash. Actually, would you like to trade up to my new product at no cost to you? It's blah blah blah, and you might have better luck with it... but if it still doesn't meet your needs, I'll happily issue your refund."

Honesty works. Really, it does.

You should be a PR guy =p

[gibbey]

Update:

Nov 23 I received a full refund.

We have smoked the peace pipe and all is well between us. He even offered to build a website with me but I declined. I think it is probably better to part as freinds.....

I will not get back into the argument about who was more right or wrong, I believe it was both him and I, (you can read my previous posts for further...).

For anyone who may or may not believe they know who I have been going back and forth with I just ask you to let it stop here.

I believe that this all happened so we could dialog here and that some up and coming marketer gets to read the valuable posts and walks away with just a little bit better understanding of the importance of customer support. There is nothing as important as making sure all of your customers are happy, wether it is answering a minor question or refunding a purchase, just make sure your ready to back up your MBO or any other promises you may make on your website.

You never know which disgruntled customer can casue you bad publicity and loose you more customers than its worth....

Thanks to all the great warriors who commented and offered me support.

There is truly a great group of guys and gals here with more knowledge and experience than all the ebooks on the net.

Thats what makes this forum priceless....

Again, thank you all and see you around the forum....

[Steven Donald Smith]

I'm glad everything worked out. I also hoped that this thread helped. I'm willing to bet that it did.

Steve

[gibbey]

Originally Posted by Sportsmarketer

I'm glad everything worked out. I also hoped that this thread helped. I'm willing to bet that it did.

Steve

I agree Steve,

Thanks,

John

[gibbey]

Originally Posted by bryan85

4 months for a refund???????

Dude...this is one big F*&%^% dishonest marketer... and it's people like this that really gives us honest marketers a stinky name... go on... complain the SH%^ out of him.. get him busted

Absolutely,

I can't argue with you.

But its done and hopefully this will help others.

I know the marketer is a member here and has sold stuff here. There seems to be a good group of people that like him or his stuff so he must be doing a little bit right. Maybe this is what he needed to keep on the right track...

I'll tell you one thing.... I will make sure that if I am not happy with a product I will make sure I request a refund within 1 month no matter if it has a 1 month MBG or not......

John

[Brad Smith]

At the end of the day if you state a guarantee then no matter what you need to honour that said guarantee, just because you didnt like that particular product does not mean you will not buy another product from them in the future. But now this IM has lost this customer for ever. Not very smart business sense to me.
I would like to know who he is so I do not make the same mistake.