Upsell ADD. Is it myth or fact?

[Daniel Brock]

Hello Warriors.

I was wondering your thoughts on upsell ADD.

I have been working on upsells lately and I have noticed that the more upsells I add to my sales process, the less receptive people are as they go down the offer chain.

For example, I have been doing:

Entry product -> Continuity -> Upsell2 -> Upsell 3

I have noticed that conversions get less and less the further they go down my process.

Is it money related? People have spent all they want to spend?

Or is there really such thing as upsell ADD?

I noticed that as I go down other people's sales funnels, I start to read the sales letters less and less with each upsell until eventually all I am looking for is the 'no thanks' button.

Anyone have any thoughts or opinions on this?

Thank you!
Daniel Brock

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Daniel Brock

I was wondering your thoughts on upsell ADD.

I have been working on upsells lately and I have noticed that the more upsells I add to my sales process, the less receptive people are as they go down the offer chain.

Do you ever buy things?

How do you feel when you buy something, and before you can get it, you have to answer a series of questions?

STFU and let me buy this one thing I want.

One upsell is fine. Two is pushing it. Three is basically my big warning flag that you're NEVER going to stop trying to milk my wallet.

[Voasi]

Even if you sell one on upsell 3, that's additional revenue you didn't have, so it's worth it.

[Steven D Smith]

Personally I hate upsells. It always makes me think the product I'm buying is inferior or incomplete. I know marketers love them, but many customers don't.

Steve

[Jag82]

Originally Posted by Steven D Smith

Personally I hate upsells. It always makes me think the product I'm buying is inferior or incomplete. I know marketers love them, but many customers don't.

Steve

That's not exactly true.

If you have been to MacDonalds, we get upsells all the time.

"Do you want to upsize?"

"Do you want the extra meal?"

If the upsell is relevant, and provide value, customers will still buy.

But having said that, it could be irritating if you upsell continually in 1 single process. GoDaddy comes to mind. They probably got about 7 upsells?

Freaking irritating. But does it make them more money? That I'm sure.

Jag

[Steven D Smith]

After buying a product that promises the moon, like most internet products do. The last thing I'm interested in is finding out that what I just paid for is inferior.

The McDonalds comparison is not nearly the same.

I just don't agree with the philosophy of internet marketers on this point. Although I realize I leaving money on the table by not doing it.

Steve

[Daniel Brock]

Originally Posted by Voasi

Even if you sell one on upsell 3, that's additional revenue you didn't have, so it's worth it.

This is true... BUT

If you can repackage your goods to cut out an upsell while still making the same amount of money per customer, you are in a much better position IMO.

(assuming that my theory is correct about the upsell conversion going down with each step).

I guess that is why the gurus always put some ridiculously high priced item on their last rung of the ladder - because they know it will convert a lot less, but if they raise the price up more, it will account for the loss.

Perhaps I am just looking into this too much...

[Janet Walker]

I was under the impression that each upsell was a higher dollar amount. So that your last in line should be 1,000 dollar product or something like that when you complete the product funnel.

[Jag82]

Originally Posted by Steven D Smith

After buying a product that promises the moon, like most internet products do. The last thing I'm interested in is finding out that what I just paid for is inferior.

Okay Steve...

I know where you are coming from. You are saying
this because you feel you are not getting a good deal
on your initial purchase.

Understandable.

But think about this...


What if the product that you paid for is exactly what
is being promised...

And the upsell is a valuable extension to the
initial front end offer...is exactly what you are looking
for as well...but only cost a mere fraction of the price...
and the catch is that it's a OTO...
so you have to buy now to get in at this special price....

...will you buy it?


Do you think other customers will do so as well?

Originally Posted by Steven D Smith

Although I realize I leaving money on the table by not doing it.

Steve

Ahhh...you said it.

You realize you are leaving money on the table by not doing it.

What does that mean?

Upsells do work. Customers do buy.
And it's also possible everyone wins.

And everyone is happy.

Customers get a great deal on
both frontend and backend offer.

You are happy because you
just increased your revenue.

Jag

[JeffLam]

I think it depends on how you carry out your 'up-sell' process.

Let's take what Jag said about the Mcdonalds example:

- Yes, asking you to upsize your mean is a up-sell method

- However, notice that 'up-sizing' in this case is RELEVANT to what the customer is having (ie, you DO NOT upsell someone something that is not relevant to what the customer wants. Simple concept, but many people don't do it right.)

- On the point of relevance, if it is indeed relevant, then most customers probably won't find it too disruptive. Is it very disruptive for you when you buy your meal and the cashier asks if you wanna upsize? (Relevant, ONE upsell)

- But imagine if the casher, after you rejecting the upsize option, asks you if you want to buy an apple pie along with the meal, and if you reject again, ask if you would like to have an ice cream sundae, reject, asks if you would like some "wth are you a cheapo?", reject... (Don't pester the customer until it makes it like what CDarkLock brought up)

- Now, one pointer that you guys said about having an upsell immediately makes you feel as if you bought an inferior product.

Back on the Mcdonalds example, if you rejected the upsize, did you feel like you bought an inferior meal?

Probably not. Why?

Because the upsize simply offer you something EXTRA, but not NEEDED, for a valuable price. If you wanted a larger meal you CAN'T just buy it again, you need to buy a NEW meal, and UPSIZE that meal.

Hence, simply offer your customer something along those lines: if you are selling a t-shirt, upsell him another t-shirt with a limited print, but much cheaper, and is unable to be bought on its own.

[redicelander]

My opinion is upsells just add more money to your original sale, but they do not necessarily double it. So one person may buy one thing and that's all they want. Others buy it and then still want more, but it's likely you will have less buyers on the upsell than on the original sale. It depends somewhat on the product and the effectiveness of the upsell, but you honestly didn't expect every customer to keep buying, did you?

[waihon]

Originally Posted by Daniel Brock

Entry product -> Continuity -> Upsell2 -> Upsell 3

Upsell is fine. As marketer, we should have expected less and less conversion down the funnel, and usually price is a factor. I just learned that anything is still better than zero.

If there were more than one upsell, as a customer, I prefer to see only one upsell page with multiple upsell products listed, and I'm given option to purchase 0, 1, or more of the products.

I've seen some marketing gurus are doing that.

From marketer's point of view, you'd need shopping cart that allows one or more products to be added.

Unfortunately, not all merchants support shopping cart.

[Steven D Smith]

I do agree that there is much more money to be made by using the upsell strategy. I also think that in many cases, marketers may be turning their customers against them right off the bat, leading to a high refund rate.

I'll give a for instance:

I purchased a course about website flipping that made promises about huge money to be made. Upon paying and waiting ro receive the instant download, the upsell was basically "if you really want to make money" you need this next product.

Right off the bat the seller lost my confidence. I always remember those type of things, so that I don't do that to my customers.

I definitely agree that there is money to be made from upsells though. I just prefer to do them after a free giveaway rather than to a customer who just paid me. It's just my preference.

Steve

[jazbo]

I never upsell, I just sell to the list afterwards. Much less pressure on people then. remember they are still in buyin decision headspace and full of doubt at that point, so why make it worse?

[Steven D Smith]

Jazbo that explains the situation perfectly. Everyone has different views on this, but I would be willing to bet that your refund rate is much lower because of how you handle the initial sales stage of the sale.

Steve

[Matt Maiden]

You can't expect the same conversion rate as with the first sell.

Also as Jag said about it being relevant is true.

Using the McDonalds analogy, when the upsell is presented correctly "would you like to get the Supersized for only..." works better than "would you like to Supersize that".

Just because someone already bought from you does not mean that you can now throw out all of the rules of good copy or salesmanship to sell them again.

Matt

[ShaneRQR]

Daniel, are you talking about instant upsells? I.e. I pay, then get sent to the upsell page immediately?

I think those are a bit dangerous, to be honest. As a customer, I have no problem with being sold to down the line, as part of someone's mailing list. But I really dislike most instant upsells and here's why: Most products promise to be complete solutions on the sales page.

Usually, the sales page explicitly states or at least implies that the product I'm about to purchase is finally the solution to my problem (whatever that is, depending on niche/market). When I then decide to buy and the first thing I see is some type of "now buy this to discover the real secret/the most powerful technique/take it to the next level" upsell, that just makes it seem like I was conned on the first purchase.

Why isn't the real secret or the best technique included in the original product? And why is it promoted as the ultimate solution when, clearly, it is incomplete?

You get the idea.

Whatever you upsell has to be very carefully chosen so that it doesn't seem to devalue the initial purchase.

[Steven D Smith]

Shane, thanks for explaining that better than I was. That is exactly what I've been trying to say. Instant upsells make a customer feel like they have been conned in many instances. I have definitely felt that way before.

Steve

[Daniel Brock]

Originally Posted by ShaneRQR

Daniel, are you talking about instant upsells? I.e. I pay, then get sent to the upsell page immediately?

I mean before they even buy the product. The are presented with my original offer, then they click yes, add to cart to accept.

They are then taken to my first upsell which is a continuity program.

They can either click accept or decline the offer, which based off that answer they will be taken to a third upsell.

After they decide they want it or not, they are finally taken to the order page where they fill out their info and pay.

Each product provides something that the original does not.

For example, the first product is a how to, the first upsell is a service they need to run the how to, the 2nd upsell is a product to make the set up process even easier, and the third upsell is a related but not related how to make money course.

What I have been seeing is that with each upsell presented, the conversions drop each time - even if the price is somewhat similar.

Perhaps it has to do with what I am offering, and maybe there isn't such thing as this upsell ADD that I am talking about.

I have no doubt in my mind that upsells rock, when done properly of course. What I want to learn is how to maximize my conversion on each upsell process, regardless of what ladder they are currently on.

Just something I have been dwelling on a lot recently.

[Daniel E Taylor]

Anyone who tells you NOT to upsell

1. Knows NOTHING about marketing and business.

I'd never listen to any advice they have to give
because I know 100%
they are not successful online.

By NOT upselling you are doing a disservice to your
customers, and losing out on LOTS of money in your business.

Everybody benefits in an upsell.

Recently we were selling a $27 ebook in my niche and we
added an upsell page for the audio package.

we convert 1/3 sometimes we have stretches where we convert
1/2.

The audio package sells for $47 and we give it to them for
$30 bucks off on the upsell.

The audio course compliments the book great and many customers
are glad we give them that discount.

And we turn $27 sales to $44 sales.

Anyone saying "I don't like upsells", fine. But don't
come in here talking about "Customers don't like upsells" and
nonsense like that. Have you tested that?

Because I have and customers love upsells.

So please spread your garbage and terrible business advice
somewhere else.

Why do people think it's ok to give untested terrible business advice
just because it's on the internet?

You are still dealing wit REAL PEOPLE, with REAL LIVES, and REAL
BUSINESSES... If you don't know something don't just talk out of
your ass. You could be really hurting people in the long run.



Daniel

[JohnMcCabe]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again - often the problem does not lie with the tactic, it lies with the execution. Consider two examples (completely fictitious)...

1. Initial product makes a huge promise, and on clicking the order button, the buyer is taken to an OTO page offering another product making the same huge promise.

2. Initial product makes a promise, say it's a how-to or a software package. The buyer is taken to an OTO page, where they are offered something like a set of templates or a starter/example dataset to use in learning.

My personal reaction to #1 is what many of you posted - if the original product does everything promised, why do I need the second one? And if I need the second one, why should I buy the first one?

My reaction to #2 is different. I may or may not take the offer, but it doesn't change my feelings about my original purchase.

Daniel, in your case, I don't think it's a matter of ADD. I think it's more in the manner of "upsell fatigue".

Originally Posted by Daniel Brock

I mean before they even buy the product. The are presented with my original offer, then they click yes, add to cart to accept.

They are then taken to my first upsell which is a continuity program.

They can either click accept or decline the offer, which based off that answer they will be taken to a third upsell.

After they decide they want it or not, they are finally taken to the order page where they fill out their info and pay.

Each product provides something that the original does not.

For example, the first product is a how to, the first upsell is a service they need to run the how to, the 2nd upsell is a product to make the set up process even easier, and the third upsell is a related but not related how to make money course.

What I have been seeing is that with each upsell presented, the conversions drop each time - even if the price is somewhat similar.

Perhaps it has to do with what I am offering, and maybe there isn't such thing as this upsell ADD that I am talking about.

I have no doubt in my mind that upsells rock, when done properly of course. What I want to learn is how to maximize my conversion on each upsell process, regardless of what ladder they are currently on.

Just something I have been dwelling on a lot recently.

[Jag82]

Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor

Anyone saying "I don't like upsells", fine. But don't
come in here talking about "Customers don't like upsells" and
nonsense like that. Have you tested that?

Because I have and customers love upsells.

True. Not all people get in on an upsell offer. Just like
not all people get in on the front end!

But it doesn't mean an up-sell will not represent
an add-on in value to the original offer or that
customers don't like upsell.

Because there are those that do get in
on the upsell offer...and they are those that
are thankful for the chance to get a
higher value product at a good price.

We cannot assume that just because we don't
like an upsell, it will automatically mean others
will not as well.

A well structured, relevant and high value
up-sell can and will get the sale.

As Daniel said, you will probably be leaving
money on the table.

Jag

[whateverpedia]

Originally Posted by jazbo

I never upsell, I just sell to the list afterwards. Much less pressure on people then. remember they are still in buyin decision headspace and full of doubt at that point, so why make it worse?

Long term that is the best strategy to take. You'll be making money from your customers for years to come.

Upsells are "grab as much as you can NOW".

Your strategy is marketing, upsells are just selling.

People who sell, sell, sell are deluding themselves calling themselves "marketers".

They are just salespeople.

[kevinfar]

Many warriors have said that they find it annoying that people trying to upsell them, thinking that this means that the package is not complete as it is.

However, to continue to Mcdonalds analogy, what if the upsell if something like an audio version of the course that you could listen to in your car? (if this has not been offered in the original sales page, obviously).

Will that be something that you consider relevant and would possibly spend more money to get?

[glchandler]

I believe that upsells work and are a fantastic benefit to your bottom line. And if presented properly the customer walks away happy and with an IMPROVED product. But 2..3...or more upsells?

NAH!

Take the McDonalds analogy:

If you have been to MacDonalds, we get upsells all the time.

They don't ask if you want to supersize the soda...then when they ring it up they ask if you want to supersize the fries....then when they ring it up they supersize the onion rings...then when they ring it up...get the picture?

If I was at that McDonalds cash register......Burger King is only a block away!!!!!!!

[SimonHarrison]

The trick like anything else is to get it right. Somebody mentioned above that they feel like the initial product they were purchasing is incomplete, if your upsells do this, then you got the type of product you added to the funnel wrong.

An upsell should never be something that makes the primary product incomplete, quite the opposite.

I think what you're experiencing is quite normal, once people realise they are in a never ending upsell maze, they quickly scroll to the "no thanks" link at the bottom, but ultimately they do work, they do add extra revenue, and if you choose the products wisely and the accompanying copy/video helps the visitor, not sells to them, then you're all good.

[BIG Mike]

Read post #20 by Daniel E. Taylor again. Then re-read it and commit it to memory – his post applies to virtually every aspect of business, online or off. And then look at John McCabe’s post #21 regarding the execution of upsells to refine your own.

Virtually every successful business in the world does some type of upsell, whether it’s for an extended warranty/service contract, a better model, peripherals, extras or whatever, if you open your eyes and pay attention, it’s the nature of business.

As John said, it’s probably a case of “OTO Fatigue”, especially if you’re marketing to other marketers. Those of on the “Inside” tend to become “Blind” to many things we see over and over.

All you can do is test, tweak and keep trying until youhit that sweet spot that converts consistently well.

[seasoned]

Originally Posted by Daniel Brock

Hello Warriors.

I was wondering your thoughts on upsell ADD.

I have been working on upsells lately and I have noticed that the more upsells I add to my sales process, the less receptive people are as they go down the offer chain.

For example, I have been doing:

Entry product -> Continuity -> Upsell2 -> Upsell 3

I have noticed that conversions get less and less the further they go down my process.

Is it money related? People have spent all they want to spend?

Or is there really such thing as upsell ADD?

I noticed that as I go down other people's sales funnels, I start to read the sales letters less and less with each upsell until eventually all I am looking for is the 'no thanks' button.

Anyone have any thoughts or opinions on this?

Thank you!
Daniel Brock

Give me a break. You didn't REALLY ask this, did you? As you go down the line, it is MORE effort, gets rid of impulse, causes questions, shows you want profit over anything else, etc..... OF COURSE people are going to GIVE UP!

Frankly, if godaddy's prices were as high as everyone else, and they did what they do, they would probably go BANKRUPT! I, for one, would not put up with all the attempts to try to TRICK you into paying more. They are actually HOPING that you merely have ADD and will push the wrong button.

If you REALLY want to upsell, put the options as close to the first page as possible, and keep them SHALLOW, like maybe 3 pages deep, OR LESS. So the first page could be "Which version do you want to order, and give several". The next page could be "That comes with this, so what version do you want". The next option could be "Here are accessories for that".

You have "mythbusteritis". In "mythbusters" they often overhear something, come up with some tiny part pulled out of context, extrapolate data from that, and then consider that a MYTH, even though nobody may consider it as such. They THEN come up with some theories as to why it may be true, and ways to test, and attempt to "bust the myth"(prove it wrong). RIDICULOUS!

Likewise, you see people's reluctance to upsells, and figure it is ADD! It is NOTHING OF THE SORT! The ADD comes in with godaddy, or truecredit, changing button styles, placement, and wording, and hoping you will follow the old "NO" pattern to actually ORDER the item! So they use the ADD to trick people into ordering because they have not paid ATTENTION to the words! YOUR problem is a loss of DESIRE!

Steve

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by kevinfar

Many warriors have said that they find it annoying that people trying to upsell them, thinking that this means that the package is not complete as it is.

However, to continue to Mcdonalds analogy, what if the upsell if something like an audio version of the course that you could listen to in your car? (if this has not been offered in the original sales page, obviously).

Will that be something that you consider relevant and would possibly spend more money to get?

This is exactly the kind of upsell I was talking about. Although, technically, it would be an add-on sale. More like buying a new suit and being offered shirts, ties, shoes, etc to complete the new outfit.

This type of add-on actually makes the original purchase more valuable, so it might make an ideal OTO.