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Feds go after Orlando spyware company (Keylogger Software maker)

by greenovni
17 replies
Orlando Sentinel - Feds go after Orlando spyware company by Aaron Deslatte

That's like saying that the FTC should go after gun manufacturers because guns kill people.

It is not guns that kill people, it is people that kill people just like it is not the software that key logs but the key logger installer himself (The person) that puts it there on your pc to spy on you.

Why is the FTC all up on internet businesses?
#company #feds #keylogger #maker #orlando #software #spyware
  • Profile picture of the author greenovni
    Sure does... Crazy crazy internet world!
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    • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
      Is there a legitimate use for keylogger software?
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

        Is there a legitimate use for keylogger software?

        YES

        We use them on our office PC's etc...In case an employee changes passwords to something we own.

        My wife and I also use one on our 13 year olds lap top.

        There are many legitimate uses for such software.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

        Is there a legitimate use for keylogger software?
        Quite a few legitimate uses. Companies use them to monitor activity on their servers, parents use them to monitor children's activity on computers (and if you think you know what your teens are doing online ... you really have no clue).

        More controversial use: Spouses use it to see if their spouse is involved in online/offline cheating. In my opinion, it beats the high cost of hiring a private detective to learn whether or not you are wasting your life with someone.

        If it is your computer, you are legally allowed to install a keylogger to monitor the computer use. I once had a roommate who used my computer and he stole my then husband's identity to steal money from us ... would have been a great idea if we had a keylogger on our computer. Probably would have alarmed us enough to get this criminal out of our house.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    are you serious? No person would ever install a such a program if they knew it would log their actions on the PC. This is a serious intrusion into privacy and security, at least borderline criminal.

    All those keyloggers and spy programs disguise themselves, and people ARE gullible...but they are also getting deceived.
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    • Profile picture of the author greenovni
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      are you serious? No person would ever install a such a program if they knew it would log their actions on the PC. This is a serious intrusion into privacy and security, at least borderline criminal.

      All those keyloggers and spy programs disguise themselves, and people ARE gullible...but they are also getting deceived.
      I installed a key logger in my system and here's why.

      Everyone in my household has their own computers, that being said, they have no right to be in my systems.

      My main PC is my tool of work, where I write all my top secret plans for Im domination (if it ever happens) and where all the codes for my websites, backups etc reside.

      My whole family, all 2 of them, know that my computer captures anything typed into it, takes pictures of the screen every 5 seconds and EMAILS the information to me so I can see at any given time if anyone has been on my PC without authorization.

      That is a security measure not counting the whole disk encryption that I use which is there just in case the computer ever get stolen.

      It came in really handy one day last year when my girlfriend had some of her family come to our house for Christmas.

      Her nephew (12 year old kid) went on my computer while I was not home, sat on it, and started searching for the following keyword, a keyword that can put people in PRISON for years and years!

      The keyword being "***** P0rn"

      (The kid searching it is 12 years old and not allowed by HIS parents to be online)

      So, while I was at the stores with my son, my cell phone starts receiving the "you got email" notifications and lo and behold, screen captures - STEP BY STEP of what this kid was doing in my PC.

      Logging on to his email accounts, passwords, google searches for ***** p0rn etc.

      Mind you that this kid is supposed to be the best kid ever according to his parents.

      So I got home, printed out every screen picture of his internet session and confronted the kid who denied it to the end until his parents got back from where ever they were, dumped all the "proof" on his parents hands, watched him get his butt whipped etc.

      My key logger captured proof of his actual and more important than anything else in this story is that I was able to keep my own 6 year old away from this kid.



      Originally Posted by rosetrees View Post

      Is there a legitimate use for keylogger software?
      See above.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by greenovni View Post

        Her nephew went on my computer while I was not home, sat on it, and...
        Didn't have the password?

        Wait, why isn't that how this sentence ends?

        Seriously, I'd like to know. You're THAT serious about security, but any schmuck can sit down and use your computer?
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author briankoz
    If you read the full article there, I don't believe that the FTC is targeting them just because they're a keylogger. (For those of you that don't know, keyloggers track text written, websites visited, etc. on your computer -- used to "spy" on people using your computer.)

    I'm almost positive that the reason they're getting in trouble is the part in that article that talks about how they allow you to REMOTELY infect another computer. Infecting a computer you have direct access to can easily be argued to have a legit purpose, but infecting computers remotely is opening up a whole new can of worms.

    In the article, it says that they can disguise the program in a file like a photo and have it secretly installed in the background. That's WAY different than most keyloggers out there where a person has to knowingly install it.

    I'd be willing to bet $1,000 that's the reason why.

    - Koz
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Brian,

      You'd win that bet. From the article:
      FTC wants to permanently stop CyberSpy from selling a product that can be remotely installed without the computer owner's knowledge and consent.
      This does not prevent employers from putting keyloggers on company machines, or parents from watching what their kids are doing online.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    Should have turned it off, but I am guilty of leaving it on if I don't think someone is going to just go on it. So I understand how that kid didn't need a password.

    I am not sure you shouldn't take the info further. Not to be a bad guy, but to protect yourself if he was being monitored at the time. You don't need to be raided. Even IF they decide it wasn't you, it can be a lot of down time and a ruined reputation.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

      Should have turned it off, but I am guilty of leaving it on if I don't think someone is going to just go on it. So I understand how that kid didn't need a password.
      I don't. This is a secure system. It logs every keypress. It takes five-second screenshots. The disk is encrypted in case it gets stolen. Clearly, the owner of this machine is serious about security.

      But he doesn't put a password on the machine and set the screensaver to a reasonable delay? I mean, mine's five minutes, just on the off chance I forget to Win-L the machine on my way out of my chair... which happens maybe one out of a thousand times, even if I'm just taking three steps to get a cup of coffee.

      And I don't have a keylogger on my machine. Let alone full-disk encryption. So why does someone much more concerned about security NOT practice the very basic procedure of having a password?
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      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author greenovni
        The machine has passwords at boot, windows log on, no screen savers, they annoy me. It was just an oversight since there was no one home - I trust the 2 people that are here since they have always followed the rules that Papa's computer is not a toy.

        But, Since that 1 oversight last year, it has never happened again.

        The whole point of the story is that Key loggers companies should not be bothered by the FTC just as gun companies are not prosecuted of murder.

        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        I don't. This is a secure system. It logs every keypress. It takes five-second screenshots. The disk is encrypted in case it gets stolen. Clearly, the owner of this machine is serious about security.

        But he doesn't put a password on the machine and set the screensaver to a reasonable delay? I mean, mine's five minutes, just on the off chance I forget to Win-L the machine on my way out of my chair... which happens maybe one out of a thousand times, even if I'm just taking three steps to get a cup of coffee.

        And I don't have a keylogger on my machine. Let alone full-disk encryption. So why does someone much more concerned about security NOT practice the very basic procedure of having a password?
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by greenovni View Post

          The whole point of the story is that Key loggers companies should not be bothered by the FTC just as gun companies are not prosecuted of murder.
          Gun companies don't teach their customers to commit murder, and if they did, I would hope the FTC would jump right up their arse and make them stop.

          That doesn't mean I wish there were no gun companies, and it doesn't mean I oppose the use of guns in self-defence, and it doesn't mean I think guns should be taken off the market. I completely support all of those things, just as I completely support the analogous use of keylogging software: companies should indeed make it, people should indeed use it legally, and it should indeed be sold on the open market to the general public.

          But there is a variety of marketing here that is just flat-out irresponsible, and the FTC honestly ought to be doing something about it.
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          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author greenovni
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Didn't have the password?

      Wait, why isn't that how this sentence ends?

      Seriously, I'd like to know. You're THAT serious about security, but any schmuck can sit down and use your computer?
      I just went to the store with my son at the time for a few groceries, there was no one at home when I left. My girlfriend allowed him to come over to play Xbox live while she was at her mom's house next door.


      Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

      Should have turned it off, but I am guilty of leaving it on if I don't think someone is going to just go on it. So I understand how that kid didn't need a password.

      I am not sure you shouldn't take the info further. Not to be a bad guy, but to protect yourself if he was being monitored at the time. You don't need to be raided. Even IF they decide it wasn't you, it can be a lot of down time and a ruined reputation.
      I SHOULD have turned it off I let his parents deal with THEIR situation... not sure what else I should have done besides scrapping the whole hard drive and starting fresh with a new one.
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      • Profile picture of the author DogScout
        Originally Posted by greenovni View Post

        I SHOULD have turned it off I let his parents deal with THEIR situation... not sure what else I should have done besides scrapping the whole hard drive and starting fresh with a new one.
        Not to be a jerk about it, but I would have thought pretty hard about informing whatever authorities would be involved IF what he was doing was being watched. If he was, scraping the hard drive wouldn't help anyway.

        The flip side is, that just might make them decide to go after you. After all, other than having the keyboard fingerprinted, there will never be any proof it wasn't you on that machine at that time. Even with screen shots and all. If anything, the security measures on the machine would argue it had to be you on those sites to an uninformed 'jury of your peers'. Tough call. And a nasty situation. No statute of limitations on that that I know of, let's hope nothing ever comes of it. (And not sure I'd ever share that story again.)
        Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    good point
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  • Profile picture of the author greenovni
    Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

    Gun companies don't teach their customers to commit murder, and if they did, I would hope the FTC would jump right up their arse and make them stop.

    That doesn't mean I wish there were no gun companies, and it doesn't mean I oppose the use of guns in self-defence, and it doesn't mean I think guns should be taken off the market. I completely support all of those things, just as I completely support the analogous use of keylogging software: companies should indeed make it, people should indeed use it legally, and it should indeed be sold on the open market to the general public.

    But there is a variety of marketing here that is just flat-out irresponsible, and the FTC honestly ought to be doing something about it.
    I just came back from the manufacturer website and it looks like that is where they screwed up. It is basically a small tutorial for criminals to learn hot to key log. I agree that that should be removed from the site and no mention of it anywhere.

    Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

    Not to be a jerk about it, but I would have thought pretty hard about informing whatever authorities would be involved IF what he was doing was being watched. If he was, scraping the hard drive wouldn't help anyway.

    The flip side is, that just might make them decide to go after you. After all, other than having the keyboard fingerprinted, there will never be any proof it wasn't you on that machine at that time. Even with screen shots and all. If anything, the security measures on the machine would argue it had to be you on those sites to an uninformed 'jury of your peers'. Tough call. And a nasty situation. No statute of limitations on that that I know of, let's hope nothing ever comes of it. (And not sure I'd ever share that story again.)
    Good luck.
    The kid didn't get to any illegal images thank God! But he was using those search terms on google searches which is just as bad.

    Originally Posted by Johnathan View Post

    Yes -- Reading the `entire` article -- if indeed the following is true -- `The federal agency said RemoteSpy customers were given detailed instructions on how to disguise the spyware as an innocuous file -- such as a photo -- that could be attached to an e-mail. When the file was opened, the keylogger software would be secretly installed.`, then I believe "that" is why they are targetting the company. Many companies and individuals use that type of software for legitimate uses (in fact probably every corporate company with more than 20-30 employees has some form of keylogger to ensure that employees say aren\'t spending the majority of their time on porn sites or instant messaging, even outlined in the employee manual) -- but when you describe how to use it for `insiduous` purposes, that could be why they were targeted. (It would be like a gun retalier describing which guns were best for robbing banks, etc, as part of their marketing materials). `Doctors` or `parents` don\'t need to try to `trick` their clients/offspring into installing software.
    Agreed
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