Dedicated Server, When Will I Need It?

14 years ago

There is no such thing as unlimited bandwidth and diskspace, maybe the ftc should stop hosting providers of telling that lie...

Dedicated servers have many uses and people do not go dedicated just due to traffic/bandwidth. If you choose to use dedicated or not is upto you but if you see your site slowing down, starting to get db errors, and etc then more than likely you are using too many resources and you know it is time to upgrade.

If you plan on running several large sites then you may want to go dedicated from the start to save the trouble of upgrading later. Especially if your business is generating the income to cover the dedicated server cost.

James

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GeorgR.

14 years ago

20.000 without a doubt screams "dedi" to me. But you should know that there are steps in between - you could also get a "VPS".

I only left very few of my sites on "shared", especially Wordpress can be pretty demanding.

You also need to look at the memory of your server, disk space, stuff like that. What traffic are you getting right now? It seems your shared hoster can still handle it...otherwise you would experience outages and problems connecting?

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John Atkins

14 years ago

Thanks for the help guys. I really appreciate it.

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

You also need to look at the memory of your server, disk space, stuff like that. What traffic are you getting right now? It seems your shared hoster can still handle it...otherwise you would experience outages and problems connecting?

Traffic is at high 4 figures ATM, and it goes up to low 5 figures
sometimes (daily).

Yes, it would seem that the hosting company is handling it just
fine at the moment, cause I've never had any hosting
problems just yet.

Anyway, If I start encountering problems,
I'll start using a dedicated server.

Cheers

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warriorkevin 14 years ago

The biggest issues on shared resources in my opinion are CPU, memory, mysql limits.

It really depends on what you do and what problems you have.
As someone said Wordpress can be intensive. Part of what makes it so, is all the db connections. Using Caching can really easy the hit to the server from WP.

Hosted solutions haven't really been as good in the past as they are today. There are a few hosting providers that are pretty good today and will serve you well. UNfortunately, there are also bad ones and you will find that your sites lag as others on the box hog resources.

If you are not having problems, don't sweat the deicated box. You can also get VirtualMachines or Slices from some hosts that are better than shared hosting and cheaper than dedicated (some have control panels and some require you to setup EVERYTHING including the OS) just search for slice hosting or virtual servers.

I have a dedicated box because I have needed one for years and for me it is very cheap since I have had it so long.

One other very important reason for dedicated box is COMPLETE customizations. I write LOTS of code and while I make it as compatible for all hosting as I can, I have flexibility to test python, perl, ruby, java, new libraries, frameworks and custom php/apache/htaccess configurations without having to get permission. I run 2 or 3 versions of php and more databases than most people would ever want to.

The resources you need in my opinion are in this order CPU, memory, disk space. (most hosts don't tell you how much CPU you get)

-CPU speed and threading allow you to have more things happen without bottle necks. If you have 1000 tasks (from all users) to be processed and you can only process 1 at a time and 100 per second (not a real #) then you have a bottle neck.
-The more memory you have, the more and larger processes can be handled without having to go to disk (hard drive) & use virtual memory - makes things faster. This also applies to using memcache - caching to memory is faster than caching to disk.
-The more disk space you have, the more you can store before having to upgrade.
- Mysql is also very important in terms of # of DBs you can have and how optimized the mysql setup is. It only takes one knucklehead with horrible sql queries to take a server to its knees if it is not optimized, but I don't think hosts tell you how mysql is optimized. Lots of people learn php and how to connect to mysql, but never learn how to optimize their queries or learn enough php or good practices to use mysql better.

Lastly, if your features and control panels are not what you want/like/need, that is another reason to look for a new solution.
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DogScout 14 years ago

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

20.000 without a doubt screams "dedi" to me.

Have a site 50,000 loads like dream... but it is one of those dreaded godaddy limited hosting packages.
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- GeorgR. 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by DogScout
  
  Have a site 50,000 loads like dream... but it is one of those dreaded godaddy limited hosting packages.
  
  He also didnt say what site/platform he uses. If he uses WP, the biggest load is indeed caused by MySQL - and there is a LOT of potential to optimize.
  
  Of all the optimizations i did, i think wp-supercache has the greatest benefit of all of them
  
  (I have a number of WP autoblogs on ONE VPS..and now with the optimizations and especially wp-supercache on EVERY blog it "kind of" works.)
  
  ps. I could also tell a little "story" when i had a blog on shared hosting and used one of my scripts which drawed several thousands of visitors + autoblogging + autoblogging to twitter + some ominous cron jobs..
  
  Let's just say: The provider was looking what on earth literally killed his server every day...and they had to spend several thousands of $$$ and man hours (their own words) until i pointed them in the direction of one of blogs to find the "problem"
  
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xiaophil

14 years ago

Originally Posted by IM Headlines

Currently it's hosted on a shared server that provides unlimited
bandwidth and diskspace.

Bandwidth and disk space aside, excessive server load is the most likely reason your provider would suspend the account.

The load will depend on your software and configuration and is difficult to estimate simply from the number of visitors.

You could find out from your provider how to monitor your server load and what their limits are, and that would be the thing to keep an eye on, IMO.

A caching system can reduce loads considerably, and disk space is cheap compared to CPU time, so that may be worth looking into.

First thing though would be to find out how you can measure the resources you are using, and the limits of your provider.

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Billy Rey

14 years ago

I'm also interested in dedicated servers or the alternatives...
can you guys share the figures $$$?

Thanks

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kaido

14 years ago

Its time to move if you get an angry email from your hosting company

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GeorgR. 14 years ago

Originally Posted by kaido

Its time to move if you get an angry email from your hosting company

When i run into load problems with any of my shared - i never got an email, i just got suspended, like that.
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rondo

14 years ago

A cheaper option is a VPS hosting plan. A VPS is your own private section of a server which can be upgraded as your traffic grows.
Here's a few managed vps plans starting at around $40 per month for 512MB of Ram with cpanel.

Andrew

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TheRichJerksNet

14 years ago

Those that mention a cheaper solution "vps" - This is no different than shared hosting. There is a world of difference between dedicated and vps. vps does not offer nothing no where near what dedicated does either.

James

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rondo 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Those that mention a cheaper solution "vps" - This is no different than shared hosting...

James

Vps plans are different to shared hosting accounts. A virtual private server comes with guaranteed resources eg Ram and bandwidth, and allows you install applications because it is independant of other accounts. eg Try installing a mail server on a shared hosting plan - you can't.
It's not a dedicated server however, nobody said it was. It's an affordable option for those who don't need a whole dedicated server or want to spend $150-$250 or more per month for a whole server.
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mojojuju

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Those that mention a cheaper solution "vps" - This is no different than shared hosting. There is a world of difference between dedicated and vps. vps does not offer nothing no where near what dedicated does either.

James

There's a world of difference between VPS hosting and shared hosting. And for most purposes, there's no difference between a VPS and a similarly equipped dedicated server, except for price.

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TheRichJerksNet

14 years ago

Originally Posted by mojojuju

There's a world of difference between VPS hosting and shared hosting. And for most purposes, there's no difference between a VPS and a similarly equipped dedicated server, except for price.

I run 2 dedicated servers and yes there is a huge difference... VPS is still on a shared model also ... You have very little control over your server.

James

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mojojuju 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

I run 2 dedicated servers and yes there is a huge difference...

Can you provide any clear examples of these effective differences between virtual private servers and dedicated servers?

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

VPS is still on a shared model also ...

Well, yes. By definition they are virtualized servers running on the same physical machine. Unless you have an aversion to the concept of "shared", what makes that an inherent problem?

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

You have very little control over your server.

Again, can you give any examples?
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GeorgR.

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

Those that mention a cheaper solution "vps" - This is no different than shared hosting. There is a world of difference between dedicated and vps. vps does not offer nothing no where near what dedicated does either.

James

YES - but on a VPS i can control EVERYTHING, down to compiling my own Linux kernel

I think its a hell of a difference.

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

I run 2 dedicated servers and yes there is a huge difference... VPS is still on a shared model also ... You have very little control over your server.

James

Uhm...no

Control is the big advantage on the VPS. See my above note.

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TheRichJerksNet

14 years ago

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

YES - but on a VPS i can control EVERYTHING, down to compiling my own Linux kernel

I think its a hell of a difference.

Uhm...no

Control is the big advantage on the VPS. See my above note.

Compared to dedicated vps is limited... I can control the entire server and do not even need hosting support. Could not tell you the last time I even called hostgator because the fact is I have access to every single thing.

It's a matter of opinion but to me I rather not be on a shared model and vps is on a shared model. They take a server and slap 20 or 30 vps's on it and call it a virtual private server.

This is why there is a huge difference in price, dedicated allows total control and you sure are not sharing anything.

James

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jazbo

14 years ago

The usual path is

shared => Virtual Private Server (VPS => Dedicated

Few people need to jump that middle step, and most VPS can handle several high traffic sites.

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warriorkevin 14 years ago

THere is a difference between shared hosting and vps.

In shared hosting everybody has access to the same resources on the server and if someone ishogging the resources, the others do not have access to them.

On VPS, people have limits and individual slices of the server. Yes you are sharing the same box, but you have minimum CPU & memory availability and also peak allowances. That means no one on the box can take ALL the resources. Though you are allowed to have occassional spikes which go above normal allotment, but just not sustained levels.

ALso you are able to do lots more on a VPS. You can install your own OS, you can install your own software, you can customize your own configurations without affecting others on the box.

Check out slicehost (as an example) - they were bought by rackspace the fanatical support company. You can also check out servint as another example.
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Bill Corners

14 years ago

If you're getting that much traffic then hopefully you're converting them as well. If you can afford it, go with dedicated.

I've had my sites on shared and my server shut down because of problems with other peoples sites. Not a good thing.

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Dedicated Server, When Will I Need It?

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