Long Salesletter Targetting Internet Marketers Is A Waste Of Time!

14 years ago

But what really bothers me when the seller shoves a long sales letter on my screen telling me all about his new gimmick or great product.

You're right, how dare he? Shoving that letter onto your screen... the nerve of some people!

Your post isn't making a lot of sense roosevelt.

Long sales letters work because if a prospect is interested in your product or service... they want as much info as possible.

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SDinternet

14 years ago

When ever I see one of those long sales letters, pictures of successfull people, video clips and testimonials I just run for the hills.

When everyone uses the same format it makes me think, if these people sell to me in exactly the same way as 90% of the other products on the market then chances are just like the sales pitch the product is a rehash of someone elses outdated system/methods.

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tknoppe

14 years ago

While I personally do not sit and read long sales letters in most cases, many others do. They want/need as much information as they can get to make their sales decision.

For me, I read the bold headlines then scroll down to the bottom to see how much it's gonna cost me. LOL But that's just me and my preferences. Doesn't bother me that they have the info there, because I know others find it useful.

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Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Would you care to back up your statements with data?

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cdhartpence

14 years ago

The OP is emotive, not statistical.

I doubt *anyone* could put data to it.

-=Vel=-

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Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by cdhartpence

The OP is emotive, not statistical.

I doubt *anyone* could put data to it.

-=Vel=-

I couldn't disagree with you more.

They simply need to test it out to obtain the data necessary to prove his statement. That is why I asked if he had the data to back up the statement that he is trying to pass off as fact.

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cdhartpence

14 years ago

"I love purchasing any good information, whether it's here, Clickbank or anywhere else for that matter. But what really bothers me when the seller shoves a long sales letter on my screen telling me all about his new gimmick or great product.

Those who are in Internet Marketing for some time knows that long sales letters do pull but I find it really stupid when the same techniques are applied to another target marketer.

How do you feel about it?"

****

Maybe so, Thomas, but when I read it, the bolded bits were what jumped out at me...far more emotive than statistical.

-=Vel=-

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Tom B

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by cdhartpence

"I love purchasing any good information, whether it's here, Clickbank or anywhere else for that matter. But what really bothers me when the seller shoves a long sales letter on my screen telling me all about his new gimmick or great product.

Those who are in Internet Marketing for some time knows that long sales letters do pull but I find it really stupid when the same techniques are applied to another target marketer.

How do you feel about it?"

****

Maybe so, Thomas, but when I read it, the bolded bits were what jumped out at me...far more emotive than statistical.

-=Vel=-

Sure this was based on emotion. Check the title of the post. It is stated as fact.

It doesn't matter his preference. All the matters is what is converting the highest. I suspect the OP isn't making that much money if any at all. Just speculation on my part but most experienced people won't be putting threads up like this.

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cdhartpence

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

Sure this was based on emotion. Check the title of the post. It is stated as fact.

It doesn't matter his preference. All the matters is what is converting the highest. I suspect the OP isn't making that much money if any at all. Just speculation on my part but most experienced people won't be putting threads up like this.

*nods* Then we basically agree.

The OP *is* emotive. It's the title that's stated as fact. Could he have tested it? Sure, but I took the post itself to be a rant at a process he didn't like. I didn't really put a lot of stock in the title and just took the post for what it was.

Anyway...too early in the morning for an argument. Carry on.

-=Vel=-

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Steven Wagenheim 14 years ago

Yawn....Will somebody please wake me when this dribble is over with.
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- AndrewCavanagh 14 years ago
  
  Serious marketers test multiple elements in their sales letters and their sales process.
  
  Generally, but not always, longer sales letters have a higher response.
  
  If they don't for a particular product and you pick that up with split testing then you can change the length of your sales letter.
  
  But the opinion that long sales letters won't convert internet marketers is obviously just that...an opinion.
  
  And in the main...if you check the sales letters for internet products where they are split testing...you'll find the opinion is almost certainly flawed.
  
  Never, ever assume that what you like is what will appeal to the majority of your prospects.
  
  You need to split test.
  
  Kindest regards,
  Andrew Cavanagh
  
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  Old School Copy Like This Is BACK & Converting Like Crazy!
  
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- Taylor French 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim
  
  Yawn....Will somebody please wake me when this dribble is over with.
  
  Do you ever post anything that isn't condescending and bitter?
  
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  3 replies
  
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  letsgetitstarted 14 years ago
  
  Long Salesletters aren't the problem, it's the content. I'd rather watch an hour long video then read a long sales letter. It's also a case of knowing your market well. I can think of a guy recently who wrote a sales letter for his course he was selling. I hated the letter but then i realised his target was aimed more at newbies, and realised he probably had it right.
  
  Thanks
  
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  Tom B Banned 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Taylor French
  
  Do you ever post anything that isn't condescending and bitter?
  
  Actually, Steven has posted a lot of helpful information. Sorry but I haven't seen any from you. :rolleyes: If you have been around the forum for some time, you would have noticed this topic coming up a lot.
  
  This is an opinion of someone who doesn't seem to know what they are doing. Judging by this post that is. Instead of learning if long sales letters out perform, they decided it can't because they don't like it. I would also say "yawn" to this since it has been posted countless times by countless people with no data to back their opinion.
  
  Thanks
  
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  Steven Wagenheim 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Taylor French
  
  Do you ever post anything that isn't condescending and bitter?
  
  Okay my friend, you want something useful?
  
  Try this on for size.
  
  The OP has posted his opinion on long sales copy essentially saying that it
  is a waste of time on other Internet marketers.
  
  Has he backed up anything he claims with his own experience as a
  copywriter or long sales letters in regard to use for HIS business?
  
  Does he have statistical data?
  
  Can he prove this is just not opinion and indeed fact?
  
  If not, then what is the point of his post other than to give an opinion
  which is just that...opinion...and based on no factual evidence?
  
  It would be like me coming to this forum and saying, "I don't like CPA offers.
  They don't work."
  
  What do I base this on? Just my own experience?
  
  Maybe I just don't know what the hell I'm doing as I am sure there are
  many people here who could show me, not only that CPA offers can make
  lots of money, but even how to do them properly.
  
  The IM world is littered with people giving their opinions on things based
  solely on their own narrow minded little world.
  
  If you truly want to be successful as an Internet marketer, you need to
  leave your opinions at the front door and test.
  
  As long as the tactic is ethical and honest, then whether or not it works
  should be your only determining factor of whether or not it should be
  used...and not because you have your knickers in a knot over them for
  whatever biased reason.
  
  Opinions like the OP's are why marketers fail. They don't test, they don't
  keep an open mind and they don't succeed.
  
  Me?
  
  I listen to the many smart people (smarter than me, that's for sure) who
  have been at this since the days of Buster Brown shoes who have tested
  long sales copy, or whatever the tactic is, and can say to me...
  
  "I have used this type of copy on [target market] for X number of years
  and compared to the other type of copy, I have found conversions to be
  2% higher in general."
  
  To me, that is the only thing that matters and opinions don't mean squat.
  
  When I stopped having stupid opinions (and yes, when I started, I had
  them) I went from being a miserable failure to a success.
  
  Even if I can be a sarcastic, condescending SOB.
  
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saraabrams 14 years ago

I can't stand long letters. I'm a bullet point kind of gal.
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Andy1750

14 years ago

Hi Roosevelt,

When I'm surfing, personally I agree with you. When I see a long tacky sales page then I hit the back button within about 5 microseconds (with the possible exception of some IM products). These types of pages do seem to work but as this particular style tends to be associated with junky information products I think that moving forwards people will start to be put off by this type of sales page. Once bitten twice shy.

Thanks,

Andy

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Not trying to sell you anything :-)

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candoit2

14 years ago

If someone actually really is interested in what is being sold they will not hit backspace just because there is a long sales letter....they will just scroll down faster to find the order button while reading less.

They will skim through the letter....

As for those who need more details, the long sales letter should keep them reading until they have had enough....plus enough sales letter remaining that they would rather go find that order button than read anymore...

It's kind of an impulse reaction....that gets people to order.

Aaron

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Nathan Alexander

14 years ago

Hey roosevelt, there's a lot to consider here.

But first, a letter can never be too long, only too boring. That's an important point to remember. I do understand where you're coming from, but you might be missing out on some amazing stuff too.

If I knew exactly what "lit you up" and ignited your greed or desire glands, and found a way to do it right (there's the catch, it takes a very talented writer to do so) you'd probably take a BIG interest in what I had to say.

If you got a letter from uncle sam telling you they were coming after you, you'd pay attention because it would greatly concern an interest of yours. Who wouldn't right?

And as far a sales letter, if it even remotely worked your triggers, sure you may skip around at first, but you'd also likely go back and read it word for word if again, it was meant and written for you - the goal of every great direct response writing.

Then again if you truly do simply "click away" the moment you come across such a site - I understand there's not much anyone can do.

It's easy to be jaded with all of the copy-cat writers that simply do it themselves instead of hiring a qualifies writer and then only end up copying other junk which just permeates the garbage over and over. Or worse, they take professional copy written for them and "improve it". (And if you're good at copywriting, more power to you, I'm speaking of the guys who don't spend time learning and working at it but just "give it a go".)

Unfortunately we tend to forget we are not our prospects. Sure, I may feel a certain way about things, but that doesn't mean my customers do too. It's easy to make the mistake of presuming others share the same bias as you - and it can be costly.

Experience, "testing" (anyone getting tired of that word? It's starting to sound cliche) and awareness of your market will help determine what works. Again, you are not necessarily your market.

So it may not just be, a waste of time.

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BrianMcLeod

14 years ago

An epic-length sales page Roosevelt would read EVERY word of...

"This letter is all about Roosevelt..."

Think about it.

Franklin won't read it. Washington will skim it.

But Roosevelt will love every second of it... because it's
written specifically for Roosevelt.

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Tsnyder

14 years ago

Here's the secret, Roosevelt...

Take the time to do the research to CLEARLY and CONCISELY
define your target market. Then drill a little further down to learn
something about the characteristics and preferences of ONE INDIVIDUAL
within that market.

Write your sales copy as if you are SPEAKING DIRECTLY TO THAT
INDIVIDUAL. Every person like him/her will read every word of the
presentation. Those who are bored or don't want to read it don't
matter because they aren't your target market anyway... assuming
you've done the proper research before writing.

The target is likely to buy at a high rate. The others will come to
the Warrior Forum and post rants about the uselessness of long copy.

Tsnyder

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Robyn8243 14 years ago

When it comes to marketing what people say they like really does not matter.

What counts is what people actually respond to.

I doubt anyone likes telemarketers, but if telemarketing did not work, there would not be multiple industries doing it for years. People may hate it, but enough people (who don't like it) still buy as a result.

Most people are not fond of the typical tactics used by car salespeople, and yet we still buy cars from the dealerships who use them.

My guess is that most people don't like anything they view as a "tactic."

While a handful of people may actually refuse to buy from anyone who uses tactics they do not like, most people (who are not marketers) don't make their buying decisions that way.

Robyn
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Daniel E Taylor

14 years ago

Lol @ people actually responding to this nonsense seriously.

Rich people have alot of money.

Broke people have alot of opinions.

Daniel

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candoit2 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel E Taylor

Lol @ people actually responding to this nonsense seriously.

Rich people have alot of money.

Broke people have alot of opinions.

Daniel

So rich people have few opinions then? :-)
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- Daniel E Taylor 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by AaronJones
  
  So rich people have few opinions then? :-)
  
  Rich people have test results.
  
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ExRat 14 years ago

Hi,

what really bothers me when the seller shoves a long sales letter on my screen telling me all about his new gimmick or great product.

I love the way the OP takes no responsibility for navigating to the page in the first place. He was just staring at his screensaver when the seller shoved a salesletter on his screen.
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- Jason Fladlien 14 years ago
  
  Well, it IS contextual.
  
  Those companies doing CPAs that make MILLIONS a year (like **** et. al.) have a very short sales page of less than a thousand words. Because they're offering something phsyical for a risk free trial, just pay shipping and handling.
  
  For our low ticket "entry point" offers, our sales letters are generally 950 to 1400 words. We've tested this, and have found it's the sweet spot... and the price point is generally $17 to $37.
  
  When we sell for $97, the sales letters are usually about double that length that work best for us...
  
  However, again it's contextual. I recently wrote a sales letter with a $500 price point that was EXACTLY 563 words that sold like crazy. But that was offering a SERVICE to internet marketers, NOT an info product.
  
  For the higher price points beyond $197, then we usually don't rely on just the sales letter... but also will do a webinar and/or incorporate other mediums.
  
  -Jason
  
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  Alminc 14 years ago
  
  Good tip.
  
  My next sales letter targeted to IM niche
  will only have one ecover image linked to order
  page and one 'buy now' link below the image :p
  
  I expect conversion rate at 50% since they can
  either buy or not, which is 50% probability
  
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  No links :)
  
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knight006

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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ExRat 14 years ago

Hi,

Originally Posted by knight006

Hi
I don't have the time for hype.. none of us do.

And the sig -

will show you how $5, $40 or $150
Can earn over $1,000,000 in profits!

affiliatelink=?12345

a long sales letter is a waste of time[snip]Just put the facts out in the letter...Its more appealing to me

Bolded for emphasis.
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Jay Jennings

14 years ago

Originally Posted by knight006

Hi
I agree... a long sales letter is a waste of time. I don't have the time for hype.. none of us do. Just put the facts out in the letter...Its more
appealing to me.

Um, yeah. I've heard that before and actually tested it. I'm a "facts and figures" kind of guy and the prospect of writing that kind of copy appealed to me...

...so I was very disappointed to find out BY TESTING that the hype-filled copy pulled MUCH better every single time I tested.

So now I give people what they want, not what they say they want.

Jay Jennings

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dsmpublishing

14 years ago

Hi guys

i have two products that do really well on clickbank and both of them have long sales letters and were written in early 2008. However i have a lot of products with an upsell system. I.e. you can have personal rights for free or upgrade to master resell rights for XXX amount of money. With these the sales page is about 1.5 pages long and sells like crazy.

I also have lots of other shorter ones what i believe is that it depends on the product sometimes it needs a long one to sell it. especially if you want to get 4 or 5 testimonials in with it

kind regards

sam
X

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Raydal

14 years ago

I think the OP has a point.

Average sales letter conversion runs about 2-3% online. This means
that over 90% of the readers "don't like long sales letters". But if you
can find a marketing method that works better I'm all ears.

-Ray Edwards

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Hesaidblissfully

14 years ago

Originally Posted by roosevelt

I love purchasing any good information, whether it's here, Clickbank or anywhere else for that matter. But what really bothers me when the seller shoves a long sales letter on my screen telling me all about his new gimmick or great product.

Those who are in Internet Marketing for some time knows that long sales letters do pull but I find it really stupid when the same techniques are applied to another target marketer.

How do you feel about it?

Newbies will probably be more likely to read long copy sales letters. I would hazard a guess that people who've been in the industry for awhile are more likely to ignore them, or at least jump straight to the benefits and price.

Also, many of the more popular IM products are released through product launches now, so by the time the sales page goes live, a large chunk of prospects have already decided whether they're going to buy or not. Having said that, you also may have people who hear about the product at the last minute or even after the launch. Those people may need more convincing, hence the longer sales copy.

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BIG Mike

Banned 14 years ago

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Nick Brighton

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

I think the OP has a point.

Average sales letter conversion runs about 2-3% online. This means
that over 90% of the readers "don't like long sales letters". But if you
can find a marketing method that works better I'm all ears.

-Ray Edwards

More like 90% of the people are not your target prospect. Nothing to do with the letter (unless the letter is crap).

Oh the variables, oh the variables.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Yawn....Will somebody please wake me when this dribble is over with.

Exactly Steve, well said. This debate should be tagged and mocked like allen did with Black (hat) and "gooroos" overuse.

So bored of this pointless posting. No offense to the OP, but it really does get old...and it's not even a valid point or argument.

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by roosevelt

But what really bothers me when the seller shoves a long sales letter on my screen telling me all about his new gimmick or great product.

I just press the "End" key on my keyboard, which rockets me all the way down to the bottom of the page where there's usually a price and a "Buy Now" button.

Which is all I really wanted in the first place.

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Frank Donovan 14 years ago

Well, I was going to make a post, but this thread has probably already gone on too long for the OP's liking. :rolleyes:

Frank
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Valeriu Popescu

14 years ago

Interesting....

So, many people DO NOT read sales letters when order, so everything is based on emotions, or price, or the fact that you trust the owner.

What about VIDEO sales letters??? Do you watch them??!

Val

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BrianMcLeod 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Valeriu Popescu

What about VIDEO sales letters??? Do you watch them??!

DOOD...

Why not just bring the Mac versus PC argument into this thread too - then we'll have a perfect trifecta.

"I don't read long sales letters... because my PC is cheaper and faster than a Mac... just give me a video!"

"Oh yeah? On my Mac - which is a thousand times cooler than a PC, I can read 3-4X faster than sitting through a boring video... If you force me to sit and watch a video, I hit the back button instantly!"

"That's because there's no software for Macs... My PC and I just want the facts... not a bunch a hype!!!!"

Ugh.
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- Valeriu Popescu 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod
  
  DOOD...
  
  Why not just bring the Mac versus PC argument into this thread too - then we'll have a perfect trifecta.
  
  Nice, but don't tell me you didn't see at least a video from start to finish. I did it
  and try to analyze it. Some people seems to love this approach. Some don't...
  
  Val
  
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Toby Lewis

14 years ago

What ever happened to wash, rinse and repeat?

Obviously it'll vary depending on the niche, product, time, etc but if it's working for you - go for it. If you have time to split test with other methods - even better!

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grandstar

14 years ago

I like the sales page long except its a 7 dollar e-book.

I prefer them long as it helps in convincing me but I only just scan through and make my decision.

Its not a waste of time. Its actually the way to go!

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J Bold

14 years ago

Long sales letters can work.

However, I sometimes find a sales page that's really long and it's an internet marketing product and they are talking about how great their product is and how unique it is and how this method will make money, but sometimes I could just care less as I am really curious about the price. I could care less about all the testimonials and the copius bonuses, bla bla bla. Some of those letters look exactly the same. I'm talking about the kind that usually are sold on Clickbank.

but it's true what I learned in sales. You are not interested in buying if the first thing you want to know is the price.

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sal64

14 years ago

Hmmm.

copius bonuses... date scripts... alleged "real world" value... "proof" of income which don't tell you how much was incurred to earn that income... one can understand the cynicism that pervades amongst IM'rs. If there wasn't so much BS peddled, one might have a different view.

It might be ok for outside niches, but it has all become a tad boring within this industry.

Gurus teach the newbs... the newbs do it the same way coz everyone else does it... where does it end?

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Robert Puddy

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sal64

Hmmm.

copius bonuses... date scripts... alleged "real world" value... "proof" of income which don't tell you how much was incurred to earn that income... one can understand the cynicism that pervades amongst IM'rs. If there wasn't so much BS peddled, one might have a different view.

It might be ok for outside niches, but it has all become a tad boring within this industry.

Gurus teach the newbs... the newbs do it the same way coz everyone else does it... where does it end?

Yes thats right everyone should stop doing it, so i could be the only one using that stuff

That stuff that works like gangbusters (still)

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molsted

14 years ago

Personally, I hate long salesletters. 30 pages of blah blah. I just want to know two things:

- What the product REALLY is (not some "gimmicky" salesformulation)
- How it can help ME!
-(and the price

If the salesletter cannot explain these two things to me within the first 2 pages of scrolling I usually leave the site.

HOWEVER, there is a reason of course for long salesletters; They WORK!

Most "make money" salesletters are targetet at beginners so then of course all this triggers help...

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LudwigReithofer

14 years ago

Long Salesletter works all the time.

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Long Salesletter Targetting Internet Marketers Is A Waste Of Time!

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