Don't Try To Make Everybody Happy...You'll Go Crazy

rocker123

16 years ago

as they said you can never please everyone...

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Carol J Smith

16 years ago

Steven,

Just being completely honest with you here, I would have been unhappy if you sent that email to me and I would have unsubscribed.

However, if you said something like, "I've tried this persons products and they worked for me, that's all I can go on."

It would have made sense to me and I would stay on your list. Just something to think about.

Carol

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Paul Myers

16 years ago

Be yourself.

Be so completely yourself that people know exactly who you are.

That will chase off the people who would become problems, which is a nice side effect. It's good for you and them. You don't get the headaches, and they don't waste time that could be better spent dealing with someone who more closely fits what they want.

The real benefit comes from the fact that it will attract the people who don't just want to deal with someone like you, they want to deal with you!

The best and most honest filtering mechanism I've ever found.

Paul

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Ouroboros 16 years ago

Steven Wagenheim is a BRAND.

Perhaps the person was trying to help him and used a poor example...

Just my .02 cents.

Steve
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Roy Carter

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Be yourself.

Be so completely yourself that people know exactly who you are.

Totally, totally, agree with Paul on this one. You have to look yourself in the mirror every morning.

Being yourself and being true to yourself is the only way to go, and as the man said, that way 'people know exactly who you are'.

Roy

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jhongren

16 years ago

Looks like as what Paul said, just be yourself. Those who like you will be attracted to you. Those who don't like you, they will...hmmm, actually it doesn't really matter at all, does it?

John

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Tom B

Banned 16 years ago

This whole IM world is pretty funny.

Everyone wants to make money online. Some aspire to be like other successful people. The funny thing is when they are sold to they complain just like the email you got Steven.

There is also another thing I don't understand Steven. I have seen a lot of your posts like this and I don't know why you are letting these things get to you. In fact, I am not sure why you are posting these things. This and other threads seems, to me, like you are using this forum as a crutch.

This is business. If you have a particular business model than just implement the thing and let the others deal with their own problems. If they don't like your business model then they can find somewhere else to go. I have also found that a lot of people bitch but a lot of times they continue to purchase more products from you. It is their problem. Don't make it your problem.

Just my own point of view.

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Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

This whole IM world is pretty funny.

Everyone wants to make money online. Some aspire to be like other successful people. The funny thing is when they are sold to they complain just like the email you got Steven.

There is also another thing I don't understand Steven. I have seen a lot of your posts like this and I don't know why you are letting these things get to you. In fact, I am not sure why you are posting these things. This and other threads seems, to me, like you are using this forum as a crutch.

This is business. If you have a particular business model than just implement the thing and let the others deal with their own problems. If they don't like your business model then they can find somewhere else to go. I have also found that a lot of people bitch but a lot of times they continue to purchase more products from you. It is their problem. Don't make it your problem.

Just my own point of view.

You're right Thomas, I shouldn't let this stuff get to me, but I'm human
so I do...guilty as charged.

Someday, maybe they'll invent the "no emotion" pill and we'll all just go
around like robots.

Until then, I guess I'll just have to be flawed.

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Tom B

Banned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

You're right Thomas, I shouldn't let this stuff get to me, but I'm human
so I do...guilty as charged.

Someday, maybe they'll invent the "no emotion" pill and we'll all just go
around like robots.

Until then, I guess I'll just have to be flawed.

Nothing wrong with it getting to you. I let things get to me that I know shouldn't. I just take a few minutes and then things are back to normal. I just change my focus and thinking. Theses complaints are normally from people that are unhappy and don't achieve what they set out to do. Mainly because of their mind set.

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Frank Bruno

16 years ago

Steve I've noticed that You get bent easily by taking things very personal.

I think this all comes down to a pride thing with you intertwined with your personality and writing style.

Here's my take on this Steve...

If you want to be the "guru for the average man and woman" then people are going to tell you their honest feelings in response to some things that you do because after all thats your writing style anyways, so people feel that they can tell you their honest opinions of things.

After all thats what you emulate to them in your personality and writing style and when they mirror that back to you it makes you feel a bit uncomfortable.

Well that's my scientific explanation... lol

Frank Bruno

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Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Frank Bruno

Steve I've noticed that You get bent easily by taking things very personal.

I think this all comes down to a pride thing with you intertwined with your personality and writing style.

Here's my take on this Steve...

If you want to be the "guru for the average man and woman" then people are going to tell you their honest feelings in response to some things that you do because after all thats your writing style anyways, so people feel that they can tell you their honest opinions of things.

After all thats what you emulate to them in your personality and writing style and when they mirror that back to you it makes you feel a bit uncomfortable.

Well that's my scientific explanation... lol

Frank Bruno

You know what Frank? I never really looked at it that way. I wonder
how many of the "big names" have people tell them they don't like the
company they keep?

Maybe I have only myself to blame for the frankness of some of my
subscribers.

It is certainly food for thought.

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Carol J Smith

16 years ago

It seems to me that most people on this board are very quick to let someone unsubscribe or lose a potential customer and just brush it off. Most of the other marketers on the board will quickly jump on these threads and tell him he did the right thing.

Since I'm fairly new in this business I value every customer a little more than most on this board.

It's simply a matter of not what you say, but how you say it. If you simply tell the customer in just a sentence or two, a polite reason why you support the person/product in question, you will probably save that customer.

It could be worth thousands down the line. I guess I believe in old school customer service. It doesn't seem like many others on this board really believe in customer service.

Carol

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Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Carol J Smith

It seems to me that most people on this board are very quick to let someone unsubscribe or lose a potential customer and just brush it off. Most of the other marketers on the board will quickly jump on these threads and tell him he did the right thing.

Since I'm fairly new in this business I value every customer a little more than most on this board.

It's simply a matter of not what you say, but how you say it. If you simply tell the customer in just a sentence or two, a polite reason why you support the person/product in question, you will probably save that customer.

It could be worth thousands down the line. I guess I believe in old school customer service. It doesn't seem like many others on this board really believe in customer service.

Carol

Carol, in this particular case, the person was adamant about his feelings
about this person. Nothing I was going to say was going to change his
mind about this person.

And for that matter, why should I? Why do I have to defend myself? Where
I come from, if you don't like my friends, you know where the door is.

I'm not going to change who I am for anybody...right or wrong.

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Wild Boom

Banned 16 years ago

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Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Wild Boom

So who was this kind of friend Steven? Why not shot his name here. If not why not, if his a respected marketer its just good Pr for him.

Or are you ashamed of your friends??

I am ashamed of nobody but I don't feel the need to drag him into this.

That's not the point of my post, which you are apparently missing.

All I'm saying is, don't try to make everybody happy. You won't.

Who this person is, is not relevant to the point I'm trying to make.

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Kim Standerline

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Carol J Smith

It seems to me that most people on this board are very quick to let someone unsubscribe or lose a potential customer and just brush it off. Most of the other marketers on the board will quickly jump on these threads and tell him he did the right thing.

Since I'm fairly new in this business I value every customer a little more than most on this board.

It's simply a matter of not what you say, but how you say it. If you simply tell the customer in just a sentence or two, a polite reason why you support the person/product in question, you will probably save that customer.

It could be worth thousands down the line. I guess I believe in old school customer service. It doesn't seem like many others on this board really believe in customer service.

Carol

Hi Carol

You'll learn that sometimes some customers are just not worth the hassle.

There comes a time on occasion when you have to "fire" them" these are the people whom it doesn't matter how much they spend with you, they are convinced they own you body and soul. (it's not worth the money)

Steve

I'm with Andy et al

You really need to stop taking things so personally, (bad for your health hun)

Cheers
Kim

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Adam Kenzington 16 years ago

Stephen,

You're on the right track, here. I'd much rather be on a list where the host had some opinions of his own. Wishy Washy people who are afraid to express an opinion for fear someone will take offense are no good to anybody. How does the Bible say it? "You were neither hot nor cold, so I spit you out of my mouth"

If you are riding both sides of the fence, THEN I'm going to take offense. Because you would not be being honest with me. I would feel you were saying whatever you thought I wanted to hear. (a lot like politicians ).

Have strong opinions and don't be afraid to express them. The guy you told to unsubscribe, wasn't going to buy anything from you anyway. He believed you were a "sell out" (of his beliefs), so you've lost nothing.

Actually, you've gained something...A strengthening of your self-respect.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T!... Sing With Me!

No, really, Good on ya, Stephen. Weed those "tire-kickers" out of your list. Your not looking for a massive list. Your looking for a RESPONSIVE list. The only response this guy had was sour grapes that you weren't a clone of his narrow-minded thinking.

Take care,

Adam
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Paul Myers

16 years ago

Steven,

We don't remember the good things. We only dwell on the bad. I'm not sure why this is, but it's the truth.

Speak for yourself, kemosabe.

As for why we remember some things more than others, that's a known answer. The stronger the emotional response to an event or situation, the more vivid the memory. (Brain chemistry.) People tend to have stronger emotional responses to threatening situations, so those are the clearest memories for them.

If somebody walks up to you in a diner and says to you, "Man, that is one ugly tie you're wearing" can you just pretend he didn't say it?

Unless I was at a funeral, I'd ask him if he was drunk, since I don't otherwise wear ties.

More seriously, sure. I'd probably make a joke about his shoes and have fun with it. Why sweat the small stuff?

Paul

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Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Steven,Speak for yourself, kemosabe.

As for why we remember some things more than others, that's a known answer. The stronger the emotional response to an event or situation, the more vivid the memory. (Brain chemistry.) People tend to have stronger emotional responses to threatening situations, so those are the clearest memories for them.Unless I was at a funeral, I'd ask him if he was drunk, since I don't otherwise wear ties.

More seriously, sure. I'd probably make a joke about his shoes and have fun with it. Why sweat the small stuff?

Paul

Paul, you'd think at my age I could just let things slide off my back.

Believe me, I'm much better than I was when I was a kid. All you had to
do was look at me wrong and I'd get defensive. Of course when you've
got a lazy eye and a bad case of acne, your self esteem isn't all that
great to begin with.

Today, a lot of stuff I ignore. But when people tell me that they don't
approve of the company I keep, that's where I draw the line. You want
to tell me my ebook sucks. No problem. Just ask for a refund and I'll
grant it promptly. You want to tell me my newsletter sucks. No problem.
Tell me how I can make it better. I may or may not take your advice but
I'll listen to constructive criticism. But telling me you're disappointed in me
because I hang out with so and so?

I don't judge people by the company THEY keep.

Don't judge me by the company I keep.

And yes, someday, hopefully before I'm pushing up daisies, this too shall
slide off my back.

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Paul Myers 16 years ago

Steven,

Don't judge me by the company I keep.

People do that. It's part of human nature and, in most cases, it makes complete sense. The problem is that people are too quick to judge without sound information.

And yes, someday, hopefully before I'm pushing up daisies, this too shall slide off my back.

Want to learn that? It's simple.

Do it.

First point: Do not react. Respond.

Second point: Remember that a person's opinion of a thing tells you nothing about the thing. It only tells you something about THEM.

Third point: Learn to ignore people. As in, don't acknowledge them, or at least not the part that's annoying you. That's a matter of practice. If you just do it regularly, it gets easier.

Fourth point: Don't give the feelings power by replaying them, or posting about them as though they're natural parts of how things have to happen. You choose what you do, not them. You can post about how angry you are, but that just makes you defend the reason you think you're angry.

The reason you are REALLY angry is that you have expectations, and you believe in them. You think the world should behave according to your way, and you get irritated when they fail to follow your code.

You are not alone in this. Most people do the same thing. It's normal. It's just not healthy.

Paul
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Brad Spencer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Be yourself.

Be so completely yourself that people know exactly who you are.

That will chase off the people who would become problems, which is a nice side effect. It's good for you and them. You don't get the headaches, and they don't waste time that could be better spent dealing with someone who more closely fits what they want.

The real benefit comes from the fact that it will attract the people who don't just want to deal with someone like you, they want to deal with you!

The best and most honest filtering mechanism I've ever found.

Paul

Amazing how something so simple as being yourself is so brilliant.

Thanks Paul for a Gem.

Brad Spencer

PS- The headline says it all. If you are yourself...people will love you. Simple as that.

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Allen Graves 16 years ago

ignorance

attitudes

intimidation

sheer stupidity

They all boil!!!!!

AL
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Don Alm Banned 16 years ago

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- jhongren 16 years ago
  
  I read from Tim Ferris' 4 hour work week that the fastest way to cause a business to fail is to:
  
  please everyone...
  
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Andyhenry

16 years ago

Steven - no-one said you had to make anyone happy let alone everyone.

The old saying about pleasing some people all of the time etc..... has always been true.

I know your business is targeted at IM newbies - but that in itself means you're going to get lots of people with lots of different expectations.

You should know better than to take this stuff personally by now - YOU have no control over what someone thinks - your best efforts will not be good enough for some people and that's fine - it's what makes life so interesting.

Just do your thing and deal with people you like and that support your business and disassociate with those that don't.. it's simple.

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johnsamuels

16 years ago

That person may have just let you know about an association that is costing you customers and money. Rather than get all huffy about it, you should have asked exactly how being associated with said person was an issue. If they have no good answer, then it may simply be a personal flash in the pan thing. If they have a thought out response, then this may be a real issue you need to deal with.

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keithakin

16 years ago

I think you just about summed it all up! Well done : )

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Steven Wagenheim 16 years ago

Thanks for the feedback. I was expecting a lot more people to tell me what
an ass I am.

For those who say you would have unsubscribed or weren't pleased with
my post, I did nothing wrong. I sent an email about a promotion in
association with a respected marketer, was essentially told that I had lost
their respect because of my association with said marketer so I simply said
in that case, unsubscribe. What was I supposed to do? The person made his
displeasure clear and WHY they were displeased. There was nothing to ask.
Therefore, there was no reason to continue the relationship.

I mean it's kind of like your girlfriend saying to you, I don't like the company
you keep when talking about my best friend of 40 years who saved my life
one day. I'm certainly not going to choose her over him when I've known
her for all of 1 date. There's nothing more to discuss or ask. She's gone.
It's that simple.

It's because I run my business and my life this way that I have so little
grief. See, I used to let other people's feelings about what I did bother me.

No more.

Don't like my friends? There's the door. Don't let it hit you on the way out.

And if that makes me an ass, so be it.
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dbarnum

16 years ago

You are so right, Steven.

Warrior Jack Humphrey told me before that, "if you aren't pissing someone off, you aren't doing what you should be doing in your business...."

(ok something along those lines....

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Steven Carl Kelly

16 years ago

You can't "make" anyone happy, other than yourself, unless they are willing to be happy. I learned that a long time ago.

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Devin T

16 years ago

Of course you can't please everyone, but the key is to always be polite. Very rarely should you blatantly tell a customer to shove it up their a**. That kind of attitude simply sets you up for failure. If they're unhappy with what you've done you can politely tell them that you're sorry for the change, but you're planning on continuing with your current role. See if there's anything you can do for them, and if they have a reasonable request that makes sense and could benefit you and your customers, go for it. Just don't let one persons comment drag you down.

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Mark-Dickenson

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Devin T

Of course you can't please everyone, but the key is to always be polite. Very rarely should you blatantly tell a customer to shove it up their a**. That kind of attitude simply sets you up for failure. If they're unhappy with what you've done you can politely tell them that you're sorry for the change, but you're planning on continuing with your current role. See if there's anything you can do for them, and if they have a reasonable request that makes sense and could benefit you and your customers, go for it. Just don't let one persons comment drag you down.

I totally agree. I think one can convey their position and still be professional

I also think a lot of the original posters' potential new customers may be reading his response to this client and may be a bit turned off

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Travis Wade

16 years ago

I completely agree with you Steven. Trying to make everyone happy will make you miserable and then they still wont be happy. Customers are great and we need them, but from time to time you get one that is more trouble than they are worth.

When I had my offline businesses I had to tell people on more than one occasion to find someone else to do business with. The online world is no different.

I think you did the right thing. Some people live to complain. This customer of yours may have brought you more grief in the long run anyways.

-Travis

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Paul Myers

16 years ago

Carol,

I guess I believe in old school customer service. It doesn't seem like many others on this board really believe in customer service.

If someone buys something from me and has questions about it, or problems using it, that's an appropriate place for the term "customer service."

I get all sorts of emails from the folks who get my newsletter. The vast majority are pleasant and/or professional. I answer as many as I can make the time for. Around 85 or 90%.

There are people occasionally who step over the line. They get upgraded to the psychic version.

We often hear people talk about developing relationships with your subscribers. At what point did the word "relationship" become a one-way thing?

When you deal with thousands of people, all of whom are getting something from you for free, you have to be picky about which ones you spend your time with. People who want to use their status as free subscribers to try and get you to drop more established relationships are not a high priority.

Without seeing the actual wording of the email, I couldn't say how I would have replied, personally. I might have done what he did, I might have told them off, and I might just have asked why they had the opinion they had.

I can say that I've been noticeably harsher on occasion than Steven was.

Here's something to consider... If someone decides I'm a jerk for whatever reason and writes to tell me so, they don't really care what I think. That's fine. If they're abusive about it, I'll push back in ways that guarantee they'll go away feeling righteous about it. They're now certain I'm a jerk.

Look carefully at the result.

They go away feeling good about themselves, so they win. I don't really care why an abusive person goes away, as long as they go away.

Everybody gets something they want.

Paul

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Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Carol,If someone buys something from me and has questions about it, or problems using it, that's an appropriate place for the term "customer service."

I get all sorts of emails from the folks who get my newsletter. The vast majority are pleasant and/or professional. I answer as many as I can make the time for. Around 85 or 90%.

There are people occasionally who step over the line. They get upgraded to the psychic version.

We often hear people talk about developing relationships with your subscribers. At what point did the word "relationship" become a one-way thing?

When you deal with thousands of people, all of whom are getting something from you for free, you have to be picky about which ones you spend your time with. People who want to use their status as free subscribers to try and get you to drop more established relationships are not a high priority.

Without seeing the actual wording of the email, I couldn't say how I would have replied, personally. I might have done what he did, I might have told them off, and I might just have asked why they had the opinion they had.

I can say that I've been noticeably harsher on occasion than Steven was.

Here's something to consider... If someone decides I'm a jerk for whatever reason and writes to tell me so, they don't really care what I think. That's fine. If they're abusive about it, I'll push back in ways that guarantee they'll go away feeling righteous about it. They're now certain I'm a jerk.

Look carefully at the result.

They go away feeling good about themselves, so they win. I don't really care why an abusive person goes away, as long as they go away.

Everybody gets something they want.

Paul

Paul, your newsletter today was worth $100 if not more.

And for the record, just so everybody knows, I was very polite to this
person. I simply suggested that maybe since he wasn't happy with my
relationships that he should unsubscribe from my list. This was also not
the first thing about me that he complained about. So there was also a
history here.

Just wanted to clear that up.

Did I mention your newsletter today was excellent?

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Paul Myers

16 years ago

Steven,

Paul, your newsletter today was worth $100 if not more.

Thanks. Glad it was useful.

And for the record, just so everybody knows, I was very polite to this
person. I simply suggested that maybe since he wasn't happy with my
relationships that he should unsubscribe from my list. This was also not
the first thing about me that he complained about. So there was also a
history here.

This is the problem with threads like this. They often don't present enough context for people to do anything but give off-the-cuff opinions, which might change a lot if they had all the information.

With context, people learn. With undefined situations, they just repeat what they think is the right answer.

Paul

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moodyresources

16 years ago

Hey Steve, You are right about how impossible it is to keep everyone happy. Some people make accusations towards you and really don't leave any room for negotiation or a difference of opinion in a friendly manner.

Accusing you of selling out is way out of line to me unless this person knows you really well and even then it is debatable.

When a person makes a statement like that they are judging your motives and how can they possibly know all the reasons you might have for your decisions?

The other thing is they are assuming the worst about you and those are the people to stay away from. They always drag you down.

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ShayB

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

You are never, never, never, never, never GOING TO MAKE EVERYBODY
HAPPY...DON'T TRY.

Take this warning for what it's worth to you.

There is a HUGE difference between "not trying to make everyone happy" and being a jerk.

In my short time on this forum, I have seen you:

insult the abilities/intelligence of every single affiliate you have (with the exception of one, which you mentioned by name).
post the email of someone you consider to be totally hopeless and never able to make it in IM - and offering to send his email address to anyone who was interested.

There are others, but these are the ones that stick in my mind.

Steven, you are obviously experienced and successful and have thousands of posts. I am sure you have a lot of wisdom in many of those posts.

It is a shame that out of those thousands of posts the ones that I remember are the ones like these - the unflattering ones. And these posts make me (maybe others - I dunno) less likely to read the other posts you have.

This is not meant to be mean. I am giving a newbie's impression of posts like this on the forum.

JMHO

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Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Shay60654

There is a HUGE difference between "not trying to make everyone happy" and being a jerk.

In my short time on this forum, I have seen you:

insult the abilities/intelligence of every single affiliate you have (with the exception of one, which you mentioned by name).
post the email of someone you consider to be totally hopeless and never able to make it in IM - and offering to send his email address to anyone who was interested.

There are others, but these are the ones that stick in my mind.

Steven, you are obviously experienced and successful and have thousands of posts. I am sure you have a lot of wisdom in many of those posts.

It is a shame that out of those thousands of posts the ones that I remember are the ones like these - the unflattering ones. And these posts make me (maybe others - I dunno) less likely to read the other posts you have.

This is not meant to be mean. I am giving a newbie's impression of posts like this on the forum.

JMHO

Shay, you actually make a very good point and this is also part of
human nature that I hope others here will learn from.

We tend to focus on the negative.

Nobody wants to watch a news story about an elderly couple sitting on
a park bench holding hands. They'd rather see a story about a train
wreck.

We don't remember the good things. We only dwell on the bad. I'm not
sure why this is, but it's the truth.

What you just said is living proof of this. I've made many posts here that
have helped many people, but you only remember those two.

Hey, I have nobody to blame for that but myself.

This is why it is so important to make sure that when you say something,
if you know it's going to be unpopular, that it's something you REALLY feel
strongly about and don't care what the backlash is.

I know I can live with everything I've said here that was negative because
it was my honest feelings.

Some will respect me for that and some won't.

Like I said in the topic title of this post...you can't make everybody happy
so don't try.

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ShayB

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Shay, you actually make a very good point and this is also part of
human nature that I hope others here will learn from.

We tend to focus on the negative.

Nobody wants to watch a news story about an elderly couple sitting on
a park bench holding hands. They'd rather see a story about a train
wreck.

We don't remember the good things. We only dwell on the bad. I'm not
sure why this is, but it's the truth.

What you just said is living proof of this. I've made many posts here that
have helped many people, but you only remember those two.

Hey, I have nobody to blame for that but myself.

This is why it is so important to make sure that when you say something,
if you know it's going to be unpopular, that it's something you REALLY feel
strongly about and don't care what the backlash is.

I know I can live with everything I've said here that was negative because
it was my honest feelings.

Some will respect me for that and some won't.

Like I said in the topic title of this post...you can't make everybody happy
so don't try.

Let me put my post another way....

I have only been on this board for around 6 weeks.

In those six weeks I have seen numerous negative threads started by you. (Not just the 2 I mentioned - those were the ones I could come up with right then.)

Now, judging by your post count, your income and your following here, I know you have had great advice and posts here - I just have not been around for over 9000 of them.

What I am saying is that the pattern I have seen over the past 6 weeks has been a negative one.

Just a newbie's perspective.

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OnlineMasterMind 16 years ago

What about just ignoring the email?
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- Steven Wagenheim 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind
  
  What about just ignoring the email?
  
  You're talking about turning the other cheek. Not everybody can do that.
  
  Can you?
  
  If somebody walks up to you in a diner and says to you, "Man, that is one
  ugly tie you're wearing" can you just pretend he didn't say it?
  
  If you can, you're a better man than I am and I wish you a lot of luck when
  you start making tons of money online and get people writing to you telling
  you that they think you're a crook, con man, scum sucking pig or whatever
  it is they spit out of their venomous mouthes.
  
  It's easy to judge when you're not the one being attacked.
  
  Thanks
  
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  trafficwave 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim
  
  If somebody walks up to you in a diner and says to you, "Man, that is one
  ugly tie you're wearing" can you just pretend he didn't say it?
  
  LOL! I actually had someone dog me about the shorts I was wearing a few nights ago. They made comments about my "grandpa shorts"... how ugly they were.. asking if I had dressed myself, etc....
  
  I laughed and said, "Sure ... you say that now. But deep down inside ... in places you don't like to talk about ... you KNOW you wish you had the guts to wear these in public!" (They really are ugly shorts ... and I love 'em!)
  
  I said it with a big smile on my face and everybody got a big laugh out of it.
  
  In the email world, I send the same messages out to my entire list and I get a variety of comments ranging from how much they loved the content to what a pompous ass I am for sending that message to them.
  
  When I send training articles, I'll get replies thanking me for writing such a helpful and informative article AND replies telling me what a waste of time the article was.
  
  Interpreting the written word is definitely up to the reader.
  
  I've learned over the years to not take any of it personally. What I do works for some people and not for others.
  
  Be true to who you are. Some people will like it and be drawn to you. Others simply won't. Let 'em go and focus on the good stuff.
  
  Thanks
  
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David Surk

16 years ago

Interesting discussion going on here. Personally I would have asked the subscriber for more details as to why they feel that way about me and my friend.

Here's the thing, as some one mentioned before you have overtime become a "brand" of sorts. That brand is some what of an underground semi-guru figure who is in the trenches yet approachable. You come off as someone who stresses hard work and will tell it like it is if something is full of crap based on your personal experiences with said crap.

Think about that persona for a second. You probably have a loyal following built around it. The fact your subscriber brought up this other marketer and sees you as selling out is an interesting perspective.

It's obvious your going through an evolution as a marketer.

Personally I think I would have emailed my list about the situation and brought it up for discussion. I'd also talk about why I like this particular marketer and their products. But that's just me and I have a personal fetish in psychology and human behavior.

In the end it may not be worth the time, but it could be interesting.

Much love,
Dave.

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Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

Originally Posted by David Surk

Interesting discussion going on here. Personally I would have asked the subscriber for more details as to why they feel that way about me and my friend.

Here's the thing, as some one mentioned before you have overtime become a "brand" of sorts. That brand is some what of an underground semi-guru figure who is in the trenches yet approachable. You come off as someone who stresses hard work and will tell it like it is if something is full of crap based on your personal experiences with said crap.

Think about that persona for a second. You probably have a loyal following built around it. The fact your subscriber brought up this other marketer and sees you as selling out is an interesting perspective.

It's obvious your going through an evolution as a marketer.

Personally I think I would have emailed my list about the situation and brought it up for discussion. I'd also talk about why I like this particular marketer and their products. But that's just me and I have a personal fetish in psychology and human behavior.

In the end it may not be worth the time, but it could be interesting.

Much love,
Dave.

Dave, you bring up another good point, but the person in question has
a solid reputation. I have never heard a bad thing about this person.

The complaint wasn't even about the person's actions as a marketer
but more about their personality. I do know that when you get to be
a big name you can come across as being full of yourself, but as far as
I'm concerned, if you create solid products, don't cheat people, and know
your stuff, you don't have to be Mr or Mrs congeniality. I am certainly not
the pleasant person at times as I can come across really rough when
backed into a corner or attacking scammers, but I will never judge
somebody by their personality.

I don't like Donald Trump's personality. I think he comes across as a real
pompous ass, but I'd sure love to learn everything I can from him. As long
as he is ethical and honest then I have no problem with his personality.

If I did, there would be a lot of people in life that I'd want nothing to do
with.

And don't get me wrong. If you feel personality is important, I will never
say that you don't have that right. You can associate with and not
associate with whoever you want. However, I will never judge you by
the company you keep if the only thing I can say about the person is
that he's a pompous ass.

But that's just me.

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spicegator

16 years ago

I'm just wondering why this person who didn't care for your friend thought it was his/her place to tell you who to associate with. He/she can have their own opinion on whoever they want to, but who you associate with in your life should be yours and yours alone preference.
If they want to unsubscribe, their loss. Let em.

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nicholasb

16 years ago

no matter how charming and smooth you are you cant please everyone.

If you were just giving away a hundred dollars for a hi five some people would get mad tell you to go away and give you a bad review.

Its a fact of life the best thing to do is shake it off learn what you can from it and move on.

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John Rowe

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TiffanyDow

I know someone who is the most negative person I've ever personally met. He doesn't see himself that way at all, yet everything he discusses has some sort of silver lining stripped out of it.

This quote was Tiff's in another thread a couple of days ago. And she might not have been talking about you Steven, but still, you were the guy who popped into my mind after reading her post.

This post is a perfect example.

I think somewhere along the line you learned that it's a good idea to post threads that will get views. And that's good. But somewhere along that same line, you also learned the best way to get views is with threads like this one, and the other threads you've started just like it.

Earlier in this thread, Shay (a spanking new member) said...

Originally Posted by Shay60654

I have only been on this board for around 6 weeks. In those six weeks I have seen numerous negative threads started by you.

Why not listen to her comments about you instead of brushing them off and telling her she's proof that people only remember the negative.

Take some responsibility. You start too many threads on the main marketing forum that have nothing to do with marketing. And they're unpleasant.

You've said you're finally making five-figures a month; six figures a year. Why not post about how you've achieved that for the new people who come here every day hoping to do the same. You'll still get views.

And members, new and old, will say thank you.

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Mark-Dickenson

16 years ago

Originally Posted by John Rowe

This quote was Tiff's in another thread a couple of days ago. And she might not have been talking about you Steven, but still, you were the guy who popped into my mind after reading her post.

This post is a perfect example.

I think somewhere along the line you learned that it's a good idea to post threads that will get views. And that's good. But somewhere along that same line, you also learned the best way to get views is with threads like this one, and the other threads you've started just like it.

Earlier in this thread, Shay (a spanking new member) said...

Why not listen to her comments about you instead of brushing them off and telling her she's proof that people only remember the negative.

Take some responsibility. You start too many threads on the main marketing forum that have nothing to do with marketing. And they're unpleasant.

You've said you're finally making five-figures a month; six figures a year. Why not post about how you've achieved that for the new people who come here every day hoping to do the same. You'll still get views.

And members, new and old, will say thank you.

Gotta say I agree with this gentleman

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Kim Standerline

16 years ago

Originally Posted by John Rowe

This quote was Tiff's in another thread a couple of days ago. And she might not have been talking about you Steven, but still, you were the guy who popped into my mind after reading her post.

This post is a perfect example.

I think somewhere along the line you learned that it's a good idea to post threads that will get views. And that's good. But somewhere along that same line, you also learned the best way to get views is with threads like this one, and the other threads you've started just like it.

Earlier in this thread, Shay (a spanking new member) said...

Why not listen to her comments about you instead of brushing them off and telling her she's proof that people only remember the negative.

Take some responsibility. You start too many threads on the main marketing forum that have nothing to do with marketing. And they're unpleasant.

You've said you're finally making five-figures a month; six figures a year. Why not post about how you've achieved that for the new people who come here every day hoping to do the same. You'll still get views.

And members, new and old, will say thank you.

John is right (so is Shay)

I wonder if you realise that you've fallen into the mindset of posting a lot of negative threads. it's great to share a rant once in a while with people who know where you're coming from, but when nearly every thread u start is a rant, surely you can see it turns people off.

You have a lot of expetise to share with folks on this board, be careful Steve that what u post doesn't bite u in the ass.

Cheers
Kim

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Steven Wagenheim 16 years ago

Hello all:

I really do need to get a life.

I just went back through this entire thread and read it all again, right from
my post to every reply.

Yeah, I guess lately I have been focusing on all the negative crap that I've
been dealing with.

Funny thing is, when I wasn't half as successful as I am now, I didn't have
half the negative crap to deal with.

I guess it's part of the price for success. You deal with more people and
thus you get to see more points of view than when you're just a porky
little affiliate marketer making a few bucks a month.

I was certainly enjoying the perks of success but I guess I didn't want to
deal with the BS. Funny thing is, I figured once the success came, the BS
would stop.

And then I thought about movie stars and sports stars and all those great
celebs and all the crap that they have to deal with. Yeah, the grass is
always greener on the other side. I used to wonder what these people
were bitching about all the time. Now I understand.

As for posting informative type posts as opposed to these pieces of crap
(and yes, that's what they are my friends), trust me, I have made more
than my share of them over the almost 2 years I've been here. Problem is,
you can't find them because they get about 100 views and end up on page
2 and buried with maybe 1 or 2 replies with a "thanks" and then never to
be seen again. I've had people PM me asking me where "such and such"
a post went to. My answer is a very honest "Hell if I know."

So sure, I can spend 30 minutes to an hour whipping up a great strategy
for doing xyz or whatever (done more than most here, believe me) but
when a handful of people get to see it and actually get something out of
it, it's kind of like "Why do I bother?" Is that honest enough for you? I
mean, believe it or not, I DO have a life and if I'm going to spend time
doing something to help others, I want to at least know that it's not for
nothing.

But the sad truth is, that's true for most of the really great informative
posts that are made here by lots of people. They just aren't sexy and
controversial enough for folks. Sure, there are exceptions. But they are
rare exceptions, like Tiff's 30 Day Article Challenge. But even my last
pay it forward thread of a month or so ago died a very quick death after
a couple of days. That same thread last year lasted for close to a month
on the first page.

I don't know what it is, but we all love a good train wreck. Yes, sadly,
my most memorable posts of the past year have been some real disasters,
including my one where I asked how to promote a gambling product. That
one almost got me run out of here on a rail. I never realized that gambling
was looked at as such an evil thing. I guess you live and learn.

Have I made mistakes? Obviously, with this thread being one of them. And
rightfully so, I pay with each one I make. You would think that eventually,
I would sit down and decide that I'm going to stop being such a negative
Nellie (where did that saying come from anyway?:confused and just try to
concentrate on the positive in my life. And heaven knows I have plenty of
that.

My wife
My daughter
My business
My music
My church

I want for nothing and have the kind of work life most people would dream
of. I'm actually sitting here typing this in my robe and slippers (really)
and seeing PayPal payments coming in as I speak.

How do you beat this?

So I'm sorry for bringing everybody else down. It's really not the kind of
example I want to set. But sometimes, people piss me off with the way
they act and this is the only place where I can vent. I don't bother my
wife with my business. All she wants to know is when the checks are
coming in or when I've made the transfers from my PayPal account to our
bank account. So I really have nowhere else to go.

But that's no excuse. You guys didn't sign on to be my personal sounding
board. If I have a problem, I need to work it out on my own. After all, that
IS what mature responsible people do, right?

I guess this is my round about way of saying I'm sorry.

I'm now going to start working on a thread that will hopefully help a few
folks out.

I guess I have a lot of lost time to make up for.
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daddyomi

16 years ago

the only way you can make people happy is by you been urself and make urself happy.

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naruq

16 years ago

If a customer has a legitimate problem our customer service department will do everything to resolve the situation. However, if the customer is whining about everything that has no merit we fire those customers!

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ExRat

16 years ago

Hi Steven,

I'm sure there are little things you could tweak and change etc in order to get less people making comments about negativity, but here are two things on the other side of the coin I would offer to you -

a) if you ever DO decide to do things differently due to feedback from others, it's wise to check yourself whether those changes are going to push you either closer or further away from 'being yourself' because in my opinion, you shouldn't do it if you feel that you are going to be further away.

b) remember that 'negativity' is one of the most overused and deceptive comments that can be made by others (particularly here) in order to throw someone off course/throw a spoke in their wheels.

I won't list all of the ways that I see it being used in here, I'll leave it to you (or others) to see it for themselves. But let me give you some quick, obvious examples of why sometimes being 'negative' is a good thing -

1) If there was no 'negativity', then every single product that was ever asked about would be a fantastic buy.

2) Imagine you worked for an investment company and you were in charge of investments. Now imagine that a bunch of really bad investments were put in front of you one after the other, and you did your job well and turned them all down. Then imagine that someone turned around and accused you of failing at your job because you had a 'negative' attitude towards those turned-down investments due to your scarcity mindset, lack of vision etc.

If you put those two things (a & b) together, then in my opinion, I would rather read the writing of someone who was sometimes a little negative BUT was always themselves, than have to read the writing of someone who was always talking from a script, always offering biased opinions presented as unbiased, etc etc

Just a slightly different perspective for you.

If you keep it real, honest, genuine, different, unusual etc - then you will invite more criticism than someone who does the opposite. But sometimes, you have to ask yourself just who those critics are, and whether their criticisms are the result of real free-thought and unbiased opinion, or simply read (sometimes unknowingly) from a 'script'.

In summary - never change what you are doing on a whim, just because other people suggest that you do. I'm not suggesting that you haven't given it thought, I'm just nudging you to do some double-checking before changing tack. Because if you presented yourself as you do, as a normal human with a few faults AND then added to the mix a bunch of plastic, false, generic rubbish designed to please - like so many people do, then you would find yourself with at least one new critic.

HTH

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Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

Hi Steven,

I'm sure there are little things you could tweak and change etc in order to get less people making comments about negativity, but here are two things on the other side of the coin I would offer to you -

a) if you ever DO decide to do things differently due to feedback from others, it's wise to check yourself whether those changes are going to push you either closer or further away from 'being yourself' because in my opinion, you shouldn't do it if you feel that you are going to be further away.

b) remember that 'negativity' is one of the most overused and deceptive comments that can be made by others (particularly here) in order to throw someone off course/throw a spoke in their wheels.

I won't list all of the ways that I see it being used in here, I'll leave it to you (or others) to see it for themselves. But let me give you some quick, obvious examples of why sometimes being 'negative' is a good thing -

1) If there was no 'negativity', then every single product that was ever asked about would be a fantastic buy.

2) Imagine you worked for an investment company and you were in charge of investments. Now imagine that a bunch of really bad investments were put in front of you one after the other, and you did your job well and turned them all down. Then imagine that someone turned around and accused you of failing at your job because you had a 'negative' attitude towards those turned-down investments due to your scarcity mindset, lack of vision etc.

If you put those two things (a & b) together, then in my opinion, I would rather read the writing of someone who was sometimes a little negative BUT was always themselves, than have to read the writing of someone who was always talking from a script, always offering biased opinions presented as unbiased, etc etc

Just a slightly different perspective for you.

If you keep it real, honest, genuine, different, unusual etc - then you will invite more criticism than someone who does the opposite. But sometimes, you have to ask yourself just who those critics are, and whether their criticisms are the result of real free-thought and unbiased opinion, or simply read (sometimes unknowingly) from a 'script'.

In summary - never change what you are doing on a whim, just because other people suggest that you do. I'm not suggesting that you haven't given it thought, I'm just nudging you to do some double-checking before changing tack. Because if you presented yourself as you do, as a normal human with a few faults AND then added to the mix a bunch of plastic, false, generic rubbish designed to please - like so many people do, then you would find yourself with at least one new critic.

HTH

Thanks Roger. I think the problem people here have with me is not so
much how I handled the situation but that I felt the need to post about
it here. Had I just kept this whole incident to myself and simply made a
post telling people not to try to please everybody without going into the
"poor me, look at what just happened to me" routine, the post itself would
have been received much better.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way I look at it.

Perhaps one of the members who has commented about this thread would
like to respond to the above theory.

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JayXtreme

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Thanks Roger. I think the problem people here have with me is not so
much how I handled the situation but that I felt the need to post about
it here. Had I just kept this whole incident to myself and simply made a
post telling people not to try to please everybody without going into the
"poor me, look at what just happened to me" routine, the post itself would
have been received much better.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way I look at it.

Perhaps one of the members who has commented about this thread would
like to respond to the above theory.

You're right Steve... your original post had a purpose and a strong message... but you should have left the mini violin in the studio

Peace

Jay

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Steven Wagenheim 16 years ago

Originally Posted by JayXtreme

You're right Steve... your original post had a purpose and a strong message... but you should have left the mini violin in the studio

Peace

Jay

Point well taken Jay. It took me so long to learn to play that violin (do you
know that you need perfect pitch to do so) that it's sometimes hard to put
it down.
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- Kevin Riley 16 years ago
  
  Steve
  
  If I only keep one person happy (Rieko) then all's well. Got to remember who's important in life. If I can keep others happy, that's a nice bonus.
  
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JayXtreme

16 years ago

Great post Roger and VERY true..

Peace

Jay

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najmiyusoff

16 years ago

Yup, all that matters to me now is the people who are important. I've tried making everyone happy, but I failed miserably, I lost so many so-called 'friends'. Like Kevin said, making other happy is only a bonus.

And I don't mind the violin playing, really.

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ExRat

16 years ago

Hi Steven,

I think the problem people here have with me is not so
much how I handled the situation but that I felt the need to post about
it here. Had I just kept this whole incident to myself and simply made a
post telling people not to try to please everybody without going into the
"poor me, look at what just happened to me" routine, the post itself would
have been received much better.

Yeh, I wouldn't disagree. But I think the topic itself is very valid - I think for anyone who isn't a natural at being the 'hard-nosed business-person' then at some point they have probably encountered the hurdle of being informed that they are not pleasing everyone when perhaps a naive part of them has started to believe that it is actually possible/important.

So perhaps, you could look at how you approached the subject and might decide that with a little more time to reflect and respond a bit less emotionally - perhaps that might have been better?

My main point for my post was just to nudge you that whatever you do, don't stop/get further away from being yourself. Because the people I have observed who have done that, lose everything. And that's a shame.

Yes, it's a marketing forum, but from my own personal selfish perspective, I'd rather communicate with a bunch of personalities than a bunch of carbon-copy, pre-programmed drones. Just because it's the internet, doesn't mean we have to be ashamed to be human - that entails sometimes not being perfect.

To become a master of emotional persuasion for financial success is rightly something to be revered and respected in these parts, BUT if in the process of becoming so, someone loses the ability to appreciate and show genuine emotions of their own and those of others, then in my opinion they have gone backwards.

No more prizes for just being successful. Prizes only for being successful AND still being human.

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