Ok Friends What's The Verdict?

14 years ago

I don't like your order button. Sure the girl's hot, but it just looks weird and not if flow with an ad copy. You might replace it with a Perry Belcher button.

I am also not a big fan of the font. But I've seen it on other sales pages, so I guess that isn't a problem.

I also don't understand why you put red text next to your pic. Isn't that the opening of your copy?

Also, there are a lot of grammatical errors. You might wanna get it proofread.

Hope that helps,
Sumit.

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Tina Golden 14 years ago

WD, I think it's much improved over what you showed us the other day so you are moving in the right direction.

Tina
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Matt Bard

14 years ago

Hey WD,

Like Tina said, I agree that it's coming along.

One thing I would recommend is to stick to only two different fonts and only use red to add impact here and there.

I think I read somewhere many years ago about the mind trying to process too many visual changes at once slows down the ability to comprehend what it is reading.

(guess that was just a fancy way of saying "you get distracted"

Matt

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crimsonbook 14 years ago

Hi,

This text: I encourage you to join there is no time to lose so ACT NOW!

is placed too far to the right. Maybe you might wanna centralize it? Just my opinion
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KarlWarren

14 years ago

These are all personal opinions - but they are also based on my professional experience...

I don't mean to be blunt, I'm just bullet pointing for brevity - and so you can address each, as you wish.

1) Header looks amateur (especially the drop shadow)
2) Personal photo is distorted (stretched) use a better one, or remove it
3) Add style="float:left" to the photo's img tag so the red text wraps around it. And a margin too.
4) Add different stylings to the headings of each bullet point (i.e. make them bold) so they stand out.
5) $ sign usually goes before the number
6) Order buttons look very amateur.
7) Don't add <br /> at the end of each sentence, it makes your paragraphs look unprofessional. Either, continue the paragraph after the sentence. Like this. Or, create a new paragraph so there is a line between sentences.
8) Your margins aren't consistent. The subheadings are wider than the body copy.
9) Header needs a lot of work, it's the first thing people see and "Member Prods" doesn't mean anything to anyone, nor does the subheading. i.e. All we learn that Member Prods is a membership site... my first impression would be "yeah, and?"
10) Testimonial box could do with being a few shades lighter - or maybe even a pastel colour.

Again, just opinions.

Kindest regards,
Karl.

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bradypf01

Banned 14 years ago

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Okay, take this from where it is coming and with a grain of salt.

I didn't read your sales page. I just looked at the "look" of it...and compared
to how MY sales pages look...it's golden.

Point is, with all the people nit picking about "This should be moved to here"
and "This button should be this" and "This font would look better" what it
all comes down to, IMO, is kick ass sales copy.

My sales pages, as crappy as they look, do the job for me because I write
from my heart, don't fill them up with a lot of BS and give people damn good
reasons why they should buy my product.

All the fancy, schmancy glitz in the world ISN'T going to make up for crappy
salescopy.

So make sure what you SAY to your prospects is dead on and as far as I'm
concerned, the rest of the sales page can look as crappy as mine.

Again, this is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

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KarlWarren

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

My sales pages, as crappy as they look, do the job for me because I write from my heart, don't fill them up with a lot of BS and give people damn good reasons why they should buy my product.

Steven, they don't have bells and whistles, but they are readable - most of my comments relate to readability and image. Which IS important. Because without readability and copy formatting, the reader is lost and won't continue with reading the copy.

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KarlWarren

Steven, they don't have bells and whistles, but they are readable - most of my comments relate to readability and image. Which IS important. Because without readability and copy formatting, the reader is lost and won't continue with reading the copy.

Like I said, I didn't actually read the sales letter. I was just looking at the
overall look of the page, which IMO, still looks a lot better than anything I've
ever put together.

Perhaps the individual paragraphs and formatting could use some cleaning
up, but that's still a minor thing next to saying something that is going to
get the prospect to open up his wallet.

I've seen some ugly sales pages (take a look at the infamous crayon one
made by the Rich Jerk copywriter) that I know kick ass because of how
incredible the copy itself is. And yes, you have to know your market for
that kind of copy and style, but still...it kills.

And that is ONE UGLY PAGE.

Point is, it's not all about formatting and looks. Yes, it has to be easily
readable (short paragraphs are best) but that's only a part of the equation.

Maybe I'll take a more careful look at the page and try to go beyond
the fancy design (at least fancy to me anyway) and see if I can't find
things on a copy level that I would change.

I'll be back later with more.

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Steven Wagenheim 14 years ago

Okay, I've gone over the page in detail (ignoring the general cool look of it,
well, at least cool to me) and see what people are talking about.

There is a TON wrong with this page on a copywriting and formatting level.

I can't go over everything but I'll try to pick on what I feel are the worst
parts of the page.

1. The graphical header, while I think it's cool looking, does nothing for the
page. Lose it.

2. The Best Membersite To Ever Hit The Internet, which I just noticed is
actually part of the graphical header, is a weak intro. It says nothing. It's
like saying, "Hey, I'm great" to which people will say, "Yeah, sure you are."
It doesn't work.

3. "Who Else Wants To Learn How To..." blah, blah, blah.

For starters, kill the word learn. Learning is hard and people don't want
to learn. Recurring income is too general. You want your headline to be
as specific as possible, with actual dollar amounts or some kind of real
exciting benefit. Recurring income is blah. Everybody is promising recurring
income...So what?

4. What's with all the sub headers under the headline? You don't need
them all. Just get down to it after your headline. One sub header should be
all you need. I don't even know what it is I'm supposed to be paying
attention to, you've got so much crap going on in there.

If you need to mention that stuff, put it down with your copy as bullet
points and make them benefit specific.

5. The photo IS distorted...lose it or fix it. Plus, an action photo will
perform a lot better than a head shot like that. Just an FYI.

6. Your lead in paragraph, aside from the (what's with the red font?) color
does nothing for me. It sounds like a bad informercial.

7. Your third paragraph after the "allow me to introduce myself" is poorly
formatted and spaced. Actually, it looks like 3 paragraphs all stuck together.

8. You've got all this rambling going on before a "Let Me Wrap This Up"
sub head.

Wrap what up?

I don't even have one solid benefit, compelling story or anything to this
point...I'm bored stiff.

9. You've got a testimonial out of nowhere that really doesn't stand out.

How about a nice lead in into it so I know it's coming?

10. This is the worst part. Your bullet points. You are focusing on
features, features, features.

Where are the benefits?

What do these things for me?

It appears to me that you REALLY don't know what a benefit is.

I'll stop here as I really can't read anymore of this.

If you can't afford a decent copywriter, get yourself a great book on
copywriting and study it...a lot.

This sales page, as nice looking as a lot of it is (compared to mine) I
give a 2 on a scale of 1 to 10.

And that's only because of the look.

Yeah folks...needs a TON of work.
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WD Mino

14 years ago

Cool some great points. not all will I apply I like my graphics I made em I am proud of em so that's that. although the order buttons should have my little "Bubby"guy in them so i will make new ones.

designed websites for a long time so i don't really care if the graphics are pro or not i like em

Other then that.
back to the drawing board.will update later have to go out 3 hr drive so won't get started till later but glad to hear the things i could change the sales letter as Dennis puts it is the first impression so I want that to be good but just fyi i ran each thing on the site through and EMV analayzer and IT KICKS ASS if you can believe it surpasses a pro which is usually 30-40 % mine is 43-37 so i am on the right track.
I am proud of myself though I am learning!
-WD

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Steven Wagenheim 14 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Products

Cool some great points. not all will I apply I like my graphics I made em I am proud of em so that's that.

-WD

And that's what kills money making projects...pride and ego.

Oh well, I tried.
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butters

14 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Products

Cool some great points. not all will I apply I like my graphics I made em I am proud of em so that's that. although the order buttons should have my little "Bubby"guy in them so i will make new ones.

designed websites for a long time so i don't really care if the graphics are pro or not i like em

-WD

Going to give you some advice here because that is seriously the wrong attitude to take. Yeah your proud of them but if they don't work, then they don't work. If someone says change and you say no, then there is only one thing to do, split test the banner on that page. Once you split tested it, you should test more and more and more and more and once you thought you tested enough, no your testing some more.

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WD Mino

14 years ago

Hi ,

hmm sorry i was not trying to be that way . you folks offered some good advice and i will implement most of it . but i like my graphics .simple. you don't have to agree with me but it is not your site and it Will make cash so i don't want to rip them off i have had lots of compliments about them i like them so that's what is good.

Pride and Ego will destroy you not just in money making so I don't really consider that I do that if anything I am rather transparent but there are some things I enjoy worked hard to learn and so that is all.

As for testimonials perhaps you have not read any of my posts I don't use them period. that is a direct reference not a testimonial which I have yet to see anyone do who can be contacted and verified I have known for over 10 yrs big difference from a testimonial concerning one product and a recommendation concerning one's character.

I like what a lot of folks have said and that is why I put it up I said let me have it good or bad because I need to learn. but just because I don't want to remove something that is my brand doesn't mean I am being a dork.

thanks a lot guys things will come along more I think one way to get it right at the top is to listen to people who have done it so I am just don't want to change the graphics so I won't i have tested this graphic by the way and response was very good impactful especiallly my little Bubby guy. Dennis gave me a tool to run the text through i used it and it is pretty good so i also have to go with what is already good and edit the things that need improvement. not bad for a 24 hr rewrite with no knowledge of Copywriting I am proud of myself.

-WD

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Products

Hi ,

hmm sorry i was not trying to be that way . you folks offered some good advice and i will implement most of it . but i like my graphics .simple. you don't have to agree with me but it is not your site and it Will make cash so i don't want to rip them off i have had lots of compliments about them i like them so that's what is good.

Pride and Ego will destroy you not just in money making so I don't really consider that I do that if anything I am rather transparent but there are some things I enjoy worked hard to learn and so that is all.

As for testimonials perhaps you have not read any of my posts I don't use them period. that is a direct reference not a testimonial which I have yet to see anyone do who can be contacted and verified I have known for over 10 yrs big difference from a testimonial concerning one product and a recommendation concerning one's character.

I like what a lot of folks have said and that is why I put it up I said let me have it good or bad because I need to learn. but just because I don't want to remove something that is my brand doesn't mean I am being a dork.

thanks a lot guys things will come along more I think one way to get it right at the top is to listen to people who have done it so I am just don't want to change the graphics so I won't i have tested this graphic by the way and response was very good impactful especiallly my little Bubby guy. Dennis gave me a tool to run the text through i used it and it is pretty good so i also have to go with what is already good and edit the things that need improvement. not bad for a 24 hr rewrite with no knowledge of Copywriting I am proud of myself.

-WD

Okay...well...good luck.

:confused:

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WD Mino 14 years ago

I will say this. if after 2 weeks and rewriting things the site does not convert which i doubt but if that happens i will remove the graphic and make a new one but i doubt that will be the case however i am not closed to doing so so that is my commitment i will redo it if after 2 weeks of final copy it does not convert.

don't think I am being a dork and Steven i like ya man but don't take it personally like I am not listening. I just have to learn if i compared my other one to this one this one blows it away just need to get it right and I will.

-WD
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KarlWarren

14 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Products

I like my graphics I made em I am proud of em so that's that.

Great... if you're going to print your website and put it in a frame to show your family...

If you want it to sell, forget what YOU think about it - and tailor it to your audience. They are the ones who will do the talking, with their credit cards.

Originally Posted by WD Products

designed websites for a long time so i don't really care if the graphics are pro or not i like em

"Don't care?" If you're going to have graphics on your page... have them for a reason. They are meant to serve a purpose. I'm tempted to design a header for you to split test against your one to prove a point, but that would be mean of me - and I'm planning on downing tools soon and chilling out with my family.

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KarlWarren

Great... if you're going to print your website and put it in a frame to show your family...

If you want it to sell, forget what YOU think about it - and tailor it to your audience. They are the ones who will do the talking, with their credit cards.

"Don't care?" If you're going to have graphics on your page... have them for a reason. They are meant to serve a purpose. I'm tempted to design a header for you to split test against your one to prove a point, but that would be mean of me - and I'm planning on downing tools soon and chilling out with my family.

WD, if you can get Karl to design graphics for you for nothing, take it as
a sign from God.

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butters 14 years ago

Good attempt but this does need some work, list of things I noticed straight away...

1) Font, its horrible, use verdana it is a lot easier to read.

2) Your photo is stretched and looks strange

3) Grammar, an "i" should be "I", make all your I's capitals, if I read a serious page with little "i" it turns me right off.

4) Under your picture, there is a paragraph where you haven't used a gap line between them, why? (lines where you talk about your wifes kidneys)

5) Commas "," need to have a space after them.

6) Overall check grammar, it is a huge turn off.

7) You need more testimonials, better yet, do some case studies.

8) Checklist, make them "ticks" bigger, I can hardly see them, they are there to make a point to tell the user what they are getting, make them bigger.

9) Grey background, personally I don't like it, others might, I would tend to stick with white BG.

10) Margins, top half and bottom half are different.

11) Where you are stating the bonuses value, bullet point them.

12) Good order button for you Belcher Button | Perry Belcher Top Converting But Button

13) Make sure all alignments are changed and correct.

I read your sales page, I didn't get the urge to buy, it reads like so many other sales pages , how about a video or something like that, they are becoming pretty standard now days.

my two cents
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Slin

14 years ago

The colors feel a little bland. It took me a second to realize what the site was about (could have been that I am tired today though.)

Otherwise not bad, without my graphics designer I know I couldn't do half as well.

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fitz10

14 years ago

It's a big improvement from the other day but I think a serious grammar checkup is in order. Some people say stuff like that doesn't matter but I can tell you that many people think that sloppy grammar and spelling will result in a sloppy product (I am definitely in that camp). On the sales end of things, after reading your copy I have no sense of the benefits of this product, only a few of its features.

But you've definitely done a lot of good work in one day so congrats on taking action and putting a strong effort in!

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butters

14 years ago

You don't use testimonials? That is an essential part of the sales page, dude, thats social proof, thats important! Your loosing a lot of potential customers by not having them and your possibly loosing potential money by not testing.

But...

Its your site, I wish you all the best dude.

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WD Mino

14 years ago

Originally Posted by butters

You don't use testimonials? That is an essential part of the sales page, dude, thats social proof, thats important! Your loosing a lot of potential customers by not having them and your possibly loosing potential money by not testing.

But...

Its your site, I wish you all the best dude.

No i do not use testimonials wouldn't make much difference it is not social proof it is something that 80% of people use to grab others cash most of which are completely fake. think I want to be in that category?

Better not to use them at all if people say nice things great feel good not everyone is the same not everyone is going to feel the same and it could end up hurting you a lot more then helping.some people would consider that lying if it did not give them the same impression which brands you so so No I do not use testimonials

make yourself stand out-I certainly do that.

I wrote my own sales letter for my products and bango sales happened i don't understand why I am having such trouble with this but I think it is because it is not a product per se but a site. If I create site for say a site disclosure progr then i would know how to say why i creted and the obvious benefits of that. it is hard for me with a site that is offering what it is but I will get it
anyways thanks for the thought hope you understand why I don't use them now. I gotta go BBS
-WD

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WD Mino

14 years ago

Hi Karl,

hey listen I appreciate your taking time to do that and for your comments I am trying and will do as much as I can that has been suggested but between you and Me I don't like that it is too dark Bubby is not standing on the wording but I like the words you chose that is pretty cool i don't worry about traffic I get a ton of it but that is also why I am trying to get er done so quick I am a little peeved now I have to go out because that is probably another 2 hundred people that will see it before I get home I will try this graphic just because you made it and I respect you you always have some good points for people and help them lots so I respect you and I will try it out I will post back later

P.S> My wife likes it.
-WD

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Andie

14 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Products

Hi Karl,

hey listen I appreciate your taking time to do that and for your comments I am trying and will do as much as I can that has been suggested but between you and Me I don't like that it is too dark Bubby is not standing on the wording but I like the words you chose that is pretty cool i don't worry about traffic I get a ton of it but that is also why I am trying to get er done so quick I am a little peeved now I have to go out because that is probably another 2 hundred people that will see it before I get home I will try this graphic just because you made it and I respect you you always have some good points for people and help them lots so I respect you and I will try it out I will post back later

P.S> My wife likes it.
-WD

I'm with your wife on this one

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WD Mino 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Andie

I'm with your wife on this one

Edit,oops duh
ok thanks a lot but my wife really likes the other one

-WD
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butters

14 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Products

No i do not use testimonials wouldn't make much difference it is not social proof it is something that 80% of people use to grab others cash most of which are completely fake. think I want to be in that category?

Better not to use them at all if people say nice things great feel good not everyone is the same not everyone is going to feel the same and it could end up hurting you a lot more then helping.some people would consider that lying if it did not give them the same impression which brands you so so No I do not use testimonials

make yourself stand out-I certainly do that.

-WD

I didn't understand the bottom part sorry but let talks about the top half. So using testimonials etc don't help? Now they have to by law be true and actually what people wrote and you don't think that could be used as a powerful tool in your process? It doesn't hurt your business if they are true, they work, thats why they are there. Video testiominals are also just as good if not better, you can put a face to the testimonial which is important. To write off something which has been proven to work is just well... I am not even sure what to put.

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Darth Executor

14 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Products

No i do not use testimonials wouldn't make much difference it is not social proof it is something that 80% of people use to grab others cash most of which are completely fake. think I want to be in that category?

1. Nobody said to use fake testimonials.
2. Who cares? People don't like to think. They see a testimonial, they'll assume people find the product useful and they're more likely to buy. What do you care if their logic isn't quite perfect? Unless you're purposefully selling a crap product, it doesn't matter.

And I agree with everyone else about the distorted picture (and the initials below it). The first impression I got from it was "Father of 3 shot dead in supermarket gang altercation". It looks like a mug shot for a quick news bulletin on a local TV station. Get a clear (and bigger) picture instead.

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

WD - You've received a lot of advice here so I won't pile on. I just want to offer you a word of encouragement. What you've done so far is a vast improvement. You're learning...keep learning. Here are two general tips:

Use the word discover instead of learn. Learn translates to work and change in most people's mind, and most don't like either. Discover translates to opening new worlds and is exciting. It implies pain-free benefits even if there is the pain of learning involved.

Someone mentioned getting a copywriting book to study. I recommend The Adweek Copywriting Handbook: The Ultimate Guide to Writing Powerful Advertising and Marketing Copy from One of America's Top Copywriters by Joseph Sugarman. It may be in your local library, or available on an inter-library loan.

I've checked it out and read it twice. It helped me a great deal. It's kind of like that Headline Analyzer I told you about - full of AHA moments.

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WD Mino

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

WD - You've received a lot of advice here so I won't pile on. I just want to offer you a word of encouragement. What you've done so far is a vast improvement. You're learning...keep learning. Here are two general tips:

Use the word "discover" instead of learn. Learn translates to work and change in most people's mind, and most don't like either. Discover translates to opening new worlds is exciting.

Someone mentioned getting a copywriting book to study. I recommend The Adweek Copywriting Handbook: The Ultimate Guide to Writing Powerful Advertising and Marketing Copy from One of America's Top Copywriters by Joseph Sugarman. It may be in your local library, or available on an inter-library loan.

I've checked it out and read it twice. It helped me a great deal. It's kind of like that Headline Analyzer I told you about - full of AHA moments.

Thanks Dennis i will do so i also started reading Dan Kennedy's ultimate sales letter but it is online and kind of hard for me to sit still and read thank you very much i will be rewriting it later on i have to take my wife out now and it is a 3 hr drive in the snow-

Lol

I am working with folks here I am really trying so don't think your breath is being wasted I am not like that and even if I don't like something i am smart enough to try it

Thanks a great deal and Dennis your a big encouragement to me i remember way back when I used to use free graphics my site got thousands of huts but it just didn't quite look right i have come a long way

Ciao for now feel free to leave a comment i will be checking back before settling in to rewrite my wife will be helping me with the grammar part-Thank God for wives she is the compliment to my life.

2010 is gonna be a big year .
-WD

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KarlWarren

14 years ago

Ok, just because it's Christmas and I've finished now - I decided to quickly make this while my girlfriend is putting the kids to bed. If you decide to use it, great, if not, no problem. Might be worth a split test though, if you can get enough traffic to provide conclusive results. It is by no means a finished article - but could be a viable alternative.

I do wish you good luck - and my comments are simply a personal critique.

Kindest regards,
Karl.

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KarlWarren

Ok, just because it's Christmas and I've finished now - I decided to quickly make this while my girlfriend is putting the kids to bed. If you decide to use it, great, if not, no problem. Might be worth a split test though, if you can get enough traffic to provide conclusive results. It is by no means a finished article - but could be a viable alternative.

I do wish you good luck - and my comments are simply a personal critique.

Kindest regards,
Karl.

I like it Karl.

Curious...what style did you use for the Member Prods font? Not the
font itself, but the style you applied to it.

One of the pre made styles or did you custom design it?

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KarlWarren

14 years ago

Hi Steve, easy enough to do...

Impact font
2px inside stroke (white)
Gradient overlay (linear light) with 2 extra stops (at 50% position) one white, one black set to about 50% opacity.

Kindest regards,
Karl.

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KarlWarren

Hi Steve, easy enough to do...

Impact font
2px inside stroke (white)
Gradient overlay (linear light) with 2 extra stops (at 50% position) one white, one black set to about 50% opacity.

Kindest regards,
Karl.

That's why you're the pro and I'm just a hack.

You don't do Photoshop training do you.

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KarlWarren

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

That's why you're the pro and I'm just a hack.

You don't do Photoshop training do you.

Not yet... but if you still have my email - ask anything you want to know. Or PM me... I'm always happy to help.

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KarlWarren

Not yet... but if you still have my email - ask anything you want to know. Or PM me... I'm always happy to help.

Thanks Karl, but I don't like to take advantage of people. I'm really only
having trouble with a couple of things.

I'm discovering that the dimensions of the graphic as opposed to the HTML
specs makes a HUGE difference as far as how things fit...even if you try
resizing the graphic or HTML part, it's not quite the same as if the graphic fits
perfectly to begin with.

Another problem I have is that I am color blind so what might look good to
me might actually look like crap. That's why I guess I need to learn colors by
the code (#FF00CC) and so on, to know what color combinations go well
together THAT way. I know it's kind of cold, but if you can't see them it
doesn't matter if, in a programming kind of way, you can still put things
together that will go well.

Know what I'm trying to say?

So I need a color tutorial but not in terms of red, yellow, blue and so on
but in terms of #FF00CC and so on.

Then I can just plug 'em in.

As for the Photoshop tools themselves, I've really given them a workout
and even have Coveractionpro's ecover scripts, so I'm all set.

No, I don't want to break into the business but would like to do some
really cool graphics for my own site that actually kick some serious ass.

If you know what I mean.

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Another problem I have is that I am color blind so what might look good to
me might actually look like crap. That's why I guess I need to learn colors by
the code (#FF00CC) and so on, to know what color combinations go well
together

Have you ever tried one of the color schemers? You just pick a color you like and the schemer will show you the complementary colors and give the code for them.

Might be just thing for you given your colorblindness.

Colorblindness?

Is that word?

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Have you ever tried one of the color schemers? You just pick a color you like and the schemer will show you the complementary colors and give the code for them.

Might be just thing for you given your colorblindness.

Colorblindness?

Is that word?

Sorry but what's a color schemer?

Does that come with Photoshop or is it something I have to purchase
separately?

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Dennis Gaskill 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Sorry but what's a color schemer?

Does that come with Photoshop or is it something I have to purchase
separately?

I have a simple one on one of my websites: Color Schemer

You'll need to use IE to use it, and you'll need to have JavaScript enabled. It does work in some version of Firefox, and may work in other browsers (I have tested it) but it does work in IE.

This is just an online version of a standalone program. The guy who actually wrote this JavaScript version let me put in on my website in exchange for giving him publicity in my first book.

There's a link to his website somewhere on the color schemer (the actual color schemer opens in a pop-up window, you'll need to allow that too). It's been a long time since I've looked at this thing, but it may be an affiliate link. Feel free to cut me out of it if it is, I wasn't trying to get a commission, just trying to help you out.

There may be even better ones out there, I haven't looked.

Or, you can just use mine for free.
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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KarlWarren

Hi Steve, easy enough to do...

Impact font
2px inside stroke (white)
Gradient overlay (linear light) with 2 extra stops (at 50% position) one white, one black set to about 50% opacity.

Kindest regards,
Karl.

Karl, I just figured out a super easy way to do this.

Type out the text.

Apply an already defined style to it that's close.

Go into the layer and then edit the overlay to the one you want along
with the opacity and other settings.

What was taking me forever to do by hand, I did in about 2 minutes using
this method.

Maybe there is hope for me yet.

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butters

14 years ago

Not sure if top designers use this or not, I doubt it but here is a cool website used for finding out what colours do what. Adbobes kuler

kuler

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StealthA00

14 years ago

Steven,

colorschemedesigner.com

is my fav

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butters 14 years ago

Originally Posted by StealthA00

Steven,

colorschemedesigner.com

is my fav

What you think adobes kuler?
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CDarklock

14 years ago

I like the top banner.

I've seen worse headlines (a LOT worse), but they're not great.

You've incorrectly sized your own picture, which makes you look sloppy and incompetent.

Your copy, spelling, and grammar are horrific. Seriously, man, that's... I can't get more than a paragraph in.

Your order buttons don't look like order buttons. Get the Belcher button.

The criticism of the colours, in my opinion, is just retarded. Your colours are fine. Worry about your text. Start with spelling, then correct the grammar, then go down to the copywriting forum here and ask for a critique. Expect to be drawn and quartered, but they'll help make your copy a LOT better.

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aceshigh

14 years ago

just a thought, I'd suggest looking at the way they create sites on Clickbank. They are very well done and are a good example of modern copywriting online.

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TelegramSam

14 years ago

Just to throw something else into the mix, I don't like the domain name.

What the heck is "Member Prods".

It sounds like a male enhancement product or something.

I don't want to take the wheels of the cart, but I would strongly suggest you come up with something more descriptive.

Lots more to say, but I think you have enough to go on for now.

The ultimate test of course is whether it will make you money.

Having said that, give yourself a fighting chance by getting the basics right such as, decent graphics, a killer headline, decent copy and a compelling offer.

That combined with a domain that says what it is about gets you half way there.

Good luck,

Sam

P.S. -

When I first saw your initials I thought, "What's this got to do with Weapons of Mass Destruction?", i.e. WMD - Then I saw it was WDM"

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Lance K

14 years ago

The jury's still out. IMO you're still a long way from a verdict.

"Who Else Wants To Learn To Make A Recurring Income Online With A Proven Business Model?"

The headline doesn't light the world on fire, but it will suffice (at least until you get split test results). I've seen MUCH worse.

Introducing Memberprods The First Site Of It's Kind Running Various Desktop Programs And Tools Directly Online.

(In my best prospect "inner voice")...So what?

Inside you will gain access to many products, as well as receive training on how to build a membership site how to find the best fit for you and how to get that site in front of people.

(prospect "inner voice")...Inside where? How many is many? What kind of products? What kind of training? What does "best fit for you" mean?

Top Notch Support And GREAT Content Gives Memberprods An Unfair Advantage Over The Competition.

(prospect "inner voice")..."Top notch" support? "Great" content? "Unfair" advantage? Boy, there sure are a lot of seemingly arbitrary adjectives that don't offer much clarity.

This Site Is Designed For Newbies.

We Even Offer Support To Help You Get Started Right Away

(prospect "inner voice" assuming they made it this far)...What's a newbie? Am I a newbie? I don't think I am, because I don't like the way it sounds. Anyway, newbies at what? Don't most people that sell you something offer you support? What's so special about your support? Is your product/service unclear to the point that I can't get started right away on my own?

You need to tell people who you are and why they should listen to you. Not your life story. But who you are in relation to this market and why you're credible.

IMO you need to go a lot further in building your credibility since you openly admit that this is your first membership site. Which may not a complete deal killer on it's own. But you better darn sure sell your prospects on why you're a credible source to learn membership sites from.

The way it reads now, it appears your "students" are your guinea pigs. That's the way I read it anyway. You're still in the process of building your first membership sit. Which happens to be the one about how to build membership sites. Which happens to be the same one you're trying to convince me to join for $27/month (or whatever).

I'd hire a copywriter to do a critique or write your letter from scratch. Either that or spend a solid week or two learning to write effective copy. Start with Dan Kennedy's book and anything by Joe Sugarman. That will give you a solid foundation at a resonable price.

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Steven Wagenheim

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

The jury's still out. IMO you're still a long way from a verdict.

The headline doesn't light the world on fire, but it will suffice (at least until you get split test results). I've seen MUCH worse.

(In my best prospect "inner voice")...So what?

(prospect "inner voice")...Inside where? How many is many? What kind of products? What kind of training? What does "best fit for you" mean?

(prospect "inner voice")..."Top notch" support? "Great" content? "Unfair" advantage? Boy, there sure are a lot of seemingly arbitrary adjectives that don't offer much clarity.

[COLOR=black]

(prospect "inner voice" assuming they made it this far)...What's a newbie? Am I a newbie? I don't think I am, because I don't like the way it sounds. Anyway, newbies at what? Don't most people that sell you something offer you support? What's so special about your support? Is your product/service unclear to the point that I can't get started right away on my own?

You need to tell people who you are and why they should listen to you. Not your life story. But who you are in relation to this market and why you're credible.

IMO you need to go a lot further in building your credibility since you openly admit that this is your first membership site. Which may not a complete deal killer on it's own. But you better darn sure sell your prospects on why you're a credible source to learn membership sites from.

The way it reads now, it appears your "students" are your guinea pigs. That's the way I read it anyway. You're still in the process of building your first membership sit. Which happens to be the one about how to build membership sites. Which happens to be the same one you're trying to convince me to join for $27/month (or whatever).

I'd hire a copywriter to do a critique or write your letter from scratch. Either that or spend a solid week or two learning to write effective copy. Start with Dan Kennedy's book and anything by Joe Sugarman. That will give you a solid foundation at a resonable price.

[/LEFT]

Great advice Lance.

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thunderbird

14 years ago

I'm not going to guess how the market will respond to your page, but the only thing that seems obviously off to me is the photograph and text wrapping. In your style sheet you should put "auto" for either the width or height so it keeps the correct aspect ratio. Something like:

.photograph {
float:left;
width:76px;
height:auto;
}

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KarlWarren

14 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I'm not going to guess how the market will respond to your page, but the only thing that seems obviously off to me is the photograph and text wrapping. In your style sheet you should put "auto" for either the width or height so it keeps the correct aspect ratio. Something like:

.photograph {
float:left;
width:76px;
height:auto;
}

Don't forget to add a margin too - to ensure the text isn't bunched right up against it.

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thunderbird 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KarlWarren

Don't forget to add a margin too - to ensure the text isn't bunched right up against it.

After checking out site's source code, I guess something like this would be best:
<img src="/images/wdm.jpg" border="1" height="125" width="auto" style="float: left" style="margin-right: 10px">
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- k_ghanekar 14 years ago
  
  Use some videos before you show them sales letter.This technique is used by Frank kern.Frank kern's sales page is never designed by any professional.But What impress others is the videos he produced.
  Also your Order now icon is not good.
  
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WD Mino

14 years ago

Hi,
ok I will not respond to all of these because I just don't know what to say.

However. if you would like to know what expertise I do have I did post in the membership thread the first things to consider before beginning the design of your site yesterday.

I have now implemented some of the suggestions made but I want this to be clear now. I don't put up with being picked on and that is how I feel I was not going to respond at all I just couldn't believe the things I was reading. However I am a man and took it and retried . It is very easy to pick on another one who is doing his damndest and for that I am commended by me I have now asked 2 people to review the inside of my site because what I offer is not like any other site at all period.

however I now feel like I am wasting my time but I refuse to quit I refuse to give up and I refuse to be put off by anyone's opinion I am figuring it out and I am doing well not bad at all considering it is less than 48 hrs since I began this. What I am trying to do is offer people the chance to create their own products learn how to plan their membersite learn how to get it together and get it up then how to promote it and get it seen using methods lots and lots of you have 0 clue about and others that are basic and elementary . that I have used for years now ever since being online almost 10 yrs back. Just because I was a young one in IM does not mean I do not have expertise or anything to offer and lots of you who posted make yourselves look silly because the first thing one needs to know is what niche to pick. then develop a product to go into that niche. etc

so whether I have been established with super status or just regular joe I have done my work due dilligence and worked my @ off everyone starts somewhere I choose to use not only a site but my natural ability to teach which I have done so in front of hundreds of people I simply take what I am passionate about and bring it to my niche.

I have very little respect for the people that take those just starting out and lie to them. misuse them. offer crap as gold. and leave them feeling, worthless, frustrated and abandoned. that is called shadiness and I for one am trying to help others that is simple.

whether I use super graphics that make them go OHHHHHHH or I use simplicity makes no bearing on who I am what I offer and what I can do for them. who am I WD what do I have -The answer-Why do they need it Because they want a chance to have a solid business with a proven model. where can they get it right here.
keep it simple. That I learned from Russel Brunson who also is one who never gives up.

Creating a sales letter for this membersite has proven to be the hardest task I have ever undertaken it is not like writing about a product because it is the product what is the benefit it is the benefit I don't get it and receive very little to help me get it but I am getting it

and then I can help others get it too. simple.

-WD

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Lance K

14 years ago

WD, by no means was I picking on you. I was just trying to give you a realistic view of the conversations that are probably going on inside your prospect's heads.

It makes no difference to me how you ultimately choose to run your business. Regardless of the choices you make, I wish you nothing but the best.

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WD Mino

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lance K

WD, by no means was I picking on you. I was just trying to give you a realistic view of the conversations that are probably going on inside your prospect's heads.

It makes no difference to me how you ultimately choose to run your business. Regardless of the choices you make, I wish you nothing but the best.

Hi Lance. No it was not aimed at you I understood what you were saying . I just came home from a long day and came online without signing in and read some things that got posted and i just i dunno my heart really is to help people sure i want to make more money online but it really is something i have taken on aside from products i release or the PLR site i am currently doing i just simply don't understand how to relate the benefit i mean if people can't see it what can i say that will make it plain as day i thought i said it already.

Your a good guy Lance i appreciate what you had to say and I appreciate what Karl did for me i put it on as soon as i got home. looks pretty good

I don't want to be a sour puss all I want to do is make money and help others in the process because in the course of my own research I discovered a ton of people upset withFalse promises and money they did not have being taken from them for no ROI I even went so far as to contact the BBB concerning one of them after I went to their little presentation because it is wrong. So i figured out the best thing for an online business i mean running a membership site you already have a proven client base so when you release a product it could very well sell out not only would the members be interested but they would help get the word out. etc i mean i examined this from all sides and came up with a strategy. so I had a technology developed that allows for any program to run on any server fully that is what memberprods is products online for members use. I mean i made some good money online selling old toys Corgi Dinky etc but i got bored of it and tired of shipping all over the world it sucked up profits at times and i just was not happy . Wendy and I began to see what was available. She came across a site offering a google business just a simple charge they said of a couple bucks to cover the admin charges whatever that meant so I said go ahead sounds good low and behold we got dinged 90 freikin bucks for nothing she did not even get the info promised and when we contacted the card they said buyer beware.-What?
Lol so I tried to find somehting so I surfed looked for opps and found a certain type of business which I won't mention because it is a fellow warrior. anyhow product did not convert at all I used the same sales letter same everything drove traffic bought traffic-not a good idea and not one sale so I got upset lies deception used I thought hmm. well I now have spent cash and now I need to make good on that because I look like a fool . so I began to and finally came up with Memberprods hired a programmer he made my idea become a reality and voila launch time. partners on board let's get at her oh this is gonna be great I said to wendy I could hardly calm down I was so excited only to have them drop out of sight .

so I bought my membership after being a member for a bit already here and thought well best thing to do is put the word out. so I did . however I was saved from embarrassment because I was not clear exactly what I was offering. so then I decided ok better just post, help others get known first i love being a part of this forum all I want now is to have my sales page relate what my heart is and why I started the site to begin with.

-WD

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WD Mino

14 years ago

Hey Thanks C ,

I understand about the page and i honestly appreciate the fact people told me the truth. but i did notice my domain name being picked on memberprods is just that products for members run online. the domain fits the site etc i got so upset i said oh man why can't it just be kept to what i was asking now i redid it and I shortened it a lot Mike Hill says short sales letters are best he hates long ones.

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Ursa Anzur 14 years ago

WD,

I was thinking of replying to your thread yesterday, but then decided not to get involved.

When I was reading the thread again today, I saw that you wanted help from Warriors but then felt offended by the advice that was given to you. Why are you even asking for help and advice then?

Honestly, it's great that you feel so passionate about your product, but that means nothing to your prospects.

I'm not a copywriter, but you really need to completely change your copy. Plus, I wasn't the only one who couldn't even read past the first few paragraphs. Your spelling and grammar are horrific.

One more thing, you don't seem to know how to use commas. Here in the forum as well as in your copy. I can't even read your posts, because they look like one loooong sentence.

Sorry but your entire website looks like it was made 10 years ago. When I didn't know how to design a website, I hired someone to do it for me. I wasn't stubborn like you.

I'm writing this just because I want you to make the best product with the help of other Warriors. That's what you want too right?
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TelegramSam

14 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Products

Hey Thanks C ,

I understand about the page and i honestly appreciate the fact people told me the truth. but i did notice my domain name being picked on memberprods is just that products for members run online. the domain fits the site etc i got so upset i said oh man why can't it just be kept to what i was asking now i redid it and I shortened it a lot Mike Hill says short sales letters are best he hates long ones.

Hello WD,

I think it was me that "picked" on your domain name "memberprods".

I was certainly not trying to upset you.

Now, to be blunt with you, I don't like it at all as a domain name. I won't tell you why as it will take too long.

But I will say, it simply doesn't communicate what the site is about. Let's just keep it as simple as that.

There is no need to get mad about it or upset.

You say you wished people would just keep to the question being asked. You certainly have a point.

BUT, I hate to see so many people spend time, money and lots of effort on something that I believe is unlikely to be a success due to the fundamentals being incorrect.

This opinion is based on over 10 years in this industry and 20 years in marketing.

You need to not get so personally attached to projects, domain names, graphics or anything else for that matter. That isn't easy. I know myself it isn't. But you have to be detached and try to keep an exterior viewpoint on things. Sort of keep an overview in mind at all times.

I believe for this kind of project of yours you need a great domain name.

At the very least, if you want to keep memberprods, then make damn sure that a person knows exactly what your site is about as soon as they see it.

I look at it now and still don't know what you are offering.

The effort you are putting in to this is commendable.

It can sometimes be difficult to convey in a few words in a post what you are trying to say to someone on this forum to help them.

But don't take things personally. Even if something seems too harsh or severe, take it on the chin and just be willing to think about what people say, if it at least seems partly sensible. Just in case it turns your $1,000 idea into a $100,000 idea.

I can't say it any clearer than no offense was meant, but it is something you need to think about and also test.

I'm sure that within an hour you could come up with the name of half a dozen available variations and test to see which one pulls best.

Sam

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WD Mino 14 years ago

Hi,

@ursa
If I did not want help I would not have changed anything. you can take that idea right out of your head and think next time before you reply.
I worked my @ off trying to do what others suggested
That makes no sense at all.

@sam

Sam.memberprods is the name memberprods is what it is that's all. Aside from it being an awesome site well how about this would you like to see why it is called memberprods? pm me and I will give you an inside view

@Steve

Hey Steve.

What are you talking about????

Did you not see I changed an awful lot and took advice?
Do you honestly think I would waste my time or yours by not doing what I asked for?

man sometimes these written things get taken way out of context. Blasting the page is one thing i did not like the main part of it I do like the graphic and I doubt this one will be any better than mine but it is up to see Karl did something very very nice for me that is the very first time someone has ever done that for me so I obviously put it to use gratefully. but it is not very fair to refer to me as a stubborn mule if I was doing things my own way friend I would not have changed any of it.

When I say I am stubborn you know what I mean but when it comes to my site as Karl said it does not matter if I like it it matters if it is catching to prospects.

What is so hard to understand is how to relate the benefit of something that is the benefit.

Just because I try and do something on my own so I can learn is not something I will feel ashamed of or feel bad about. I enjoy helping I enjoy being in here and I enjoy offering what I can. If I am to succeed more then I need to know how to do things so I can write about what the Products are properly. That is just as I say all the time isn't it Steve. Business=Work
I am the most persistant man I know and that is what allows me to learn by just doing.

You folks often make reference to my grammar I admittedly don't write well. However If I compared my writing to that of a year ago it is black and white. the more I do it the better I become. The only way I know how to learn is to just do it I am not a student I could not sit in class I did not "get" things.... right.... it was very hard but I do "get" things by doing them . I have an amazing brain and though some call it a disability I call it a great ability I am trying to do the best job I can and I appreciated people helping

Some people helping I should say. not all was good advice and OP's Opinions are not what brings in the dollars however when people of Expertise come and help I listen and obviously Apply.I mean if this was a product say an instant site maker I could list the problem the solution and the benefits simply because I created the program. however referring to a membersite I failed. so I swallowed my pride dreaded the thought and came in and said Ok help. Now I look at my site and though I
still have a problem with the graphic I like it it is coming along great and that is very cool.all due to Listening Steven.

@ Butters.
Hey thanks a lot I appreciate it i noticed the banner last night too but I was correcting other things it is no biggy couple px out .

the text I will need to put in the css image:float because I tried floating it with the text from TBird but it does not move I px it about 20 and it looks the same I will be getting to work now .
Thank you for the advice on the Bonus part that is why it does not look right thank you I will get that changed so I have it looking like you say .

Well thanks a lot for everyone's help I am doing it and it is starting to come together very nicely off to work now. BBS

-WD
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CDarklock

14 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Products

However. if you would like to know what expertise I do have I did post in the membership thread the first things to consider before beginning the design of your site yesterday.

The prospect reading your sales page is not going to go off and search to figure out your expertise, and an awful lot of people are not on this forum. If the evidence is not on the page, there is none - as far as the prospect is concerned. You show your proof right there, and right now, or you don't have any.

I don't put up with being picked on

Nobody is picking on you. Your sales copy is garbage. That doesn't mean your product is bad, and it doesn't mean you're bad. But check your ego at the door, because a sales page is nowhere to get mushy and sentimental. We're kicking the crap out of your page, not you. You're pretty cool.

I am doing well not bad at all considering it is less than 48 hrs since I began this.

I don't think anyone here will disagree with that. It takes a lot of work and a lot of time to write decent sales copy.

whether I use super graphics that make them go OHHHHHHH or I use simplicity makes no bearing on who I am what I offer and what I can do for them.

That's true. However, it has a shocking impact on whether they buy. If you're concerned with being individual and true to yourself, by all means, ignore every piece of advice you get. But if you're concerned with selling something, dump the "free to be you and me" crap.

The blunt fact is that when I go to your sales page, it is not easy - although it has been getting easier - to figure out how exactly to give you money and how much I am supposed to give you. I'm not even asking whether I should give you money; I'm assuming I want your product because it's awesome and you're cool and I just have to have it. It's not easy to give you the money. That's the A-number-one problem you have.

Who is it on here, JayXtreme, who says "FIVE LINES OF TEXT AND A BUY NOW BUTTON" all the time? Take that to heart. If I can't figure out how to give you the money, it doesn't matter how great you are or how wonderful your product is, you won't get the money... and I won't get the product, either. If you've no regard for that horrible money, you might at least have some for me, sitting over here without access to your wonderful site!

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chen

14 years ago

Change the order button i don't like - try something else ;-)

Thanks
1 reply

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Steven Wagenheim 14 years ago

You know, with so many people dumping on your site, it's almost pointless
for me to add any more fuel to the fire.

So I will tell you a personal story.

Take it for what it's worth to you.

When I first got here, I was like you...I was going to do it my way...PERIOD.

And then some people with intelligence told me I was being a jackass and
knocked some sense into me.

I got a hold of Andrew Cavanagh and got some copywriting chops. I cleaned
up my sites...a lot. And while they're not all slick and cool looking like the
big boys sites, they're readable and they get the message across.

In a word...they convert to the tune of 6 figs a year.

You can continue to be a stubborn mule like I was or you can actually
listen to these people and make something of your business.

The choice is yours.

I've said my peace.
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- butters 14 years ago
  
  I see you changed your sales page and its looking better but some things still need sorting...
  
  - After your bullet point list, your margins change, where you talk about the bonus value etc... Try make that section match the top half of the page, keep it nice and consistent.
  
  - Use one font style, you are using two different fonts through out your page, it makes it a little weird to read.
  
  - Your order button is still to small... Don't hide this button, your want it to be a dominant point on your sales page, you want that button to be seen.
  
  - The banner at the top doesn't match the size of your border, your border is a few pix's to wide.
  
  - This "The choice is simple, succeed or not, that is the question only YOU have the answer." Shouldn't be indented.
  
  - Maybe put some spacing between your face and the text, buffer it by about 10 px. This is so the words are no squashed right against it.
  
  These a my new 2 cents
  
  Thanks
  
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JohnHuizinga

14 years ago

In my opinion the best advice you've gotten about the sales page is to improve the grammar/phrasing.

I can tell you like to do things yourself - I'm the same way - but someone with your level of command of the English language shouldn't be trying to write sales copy without having a native English speaker going over your page line by line and cleaning it up for readability.

You will lose a large percentage of your visitors long before they even find out what you're offering because it's way too hard to read your copy.

Hard Work = I will look elsewhere for the solution to my problem.

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ebook

14 years ago

don't like the xx otherwise great site

Thanks
1 reply

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WD Mino 14 years ago

Originally Posted by ebook

don't like the xx otherwise great site

You mean at the bottom on top of the disclaimer part?

Ok thanks maybe I will jut put a hr there thanks for that.
-WD
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tryinhere

14 years ago

WD, you have been busy, was going to stay away from the thread but noticed you seemed a little edgy with some comments. After reading through it all your very lucky all of these people are offering to help you out and from what i see they all just want to help so relax a little and take this information on-board, loosen up a little and at least give some of this a trial, what can you loose.

I think from memory somebody mentioned a lower cost trial period, that would be another thing that may be worth looking at. Keep up the good work.

Thanks
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butters 14 years ago

Have you ever thought about just offering one member ship, IE gold, and then upsell the platinum. Focus the sales page around 1 membership because it gives the user only 1 thing to focus on, not 2.
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WD Mino

14 years ago

Good point thank you.

Yes I know about the trial thing but I am really struggling with that Once Inside stuff to download etc so some will just sign up download and c ya i don't want that it is not the purpose of the site my wife does not like the idea either she says the same thing but I dunno I may offer a 5.00 trial wife would have to be ok with it though and at present that is not the case.

-WD

Originally Posted by tryinhere

WD, you have been busy, was going to stay away from the thread but noticed you seemed a little edgy with some comments. After reading through it all your very lucky all of these people are offering to help you out and from what i see they all just want to help so relax a little and take this information on-board, loosen up a little and at least give some of this a trial, what can you loose.

I think from memory somebody mentioned a lower cost trial period, that would be another thing that may be worth looking at. Keep up the good work.

Thanks
1 reply

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mgkimsal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by WD Products

I dunno I may offer a 5.00 trial wife

This is an example of what happens when you don't use punctuation properly. Not only is your site copy hard to read, but you may end up communicating things you don't necessarily mean.

I'd imagine the bulk of people who may end up purchasing from a site with such poor grammar and spelling are people who truly can't tell that anything's wrong. In the short term, that may be a better finaicial strategy, but seems to go against what you're trying to do - help people avoid getting ripped off. That's probably going to come across as harsher than I'm intending it, but it's my reaction after reading the page and reading this thread so far.

Perhaps you're better at spoken word communication, rather than written communication, and should be selling a video series instead of products that rely on writing.

Thanks
1 reply

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by mgkimsal

This is an example of what happens when you don't use punctuation properly. Not only is your site copy hard to read, but you may end up communicating things you don't necessarily mean.
<snip>

I am quite acquainted with the challenge of wanting to offer constructive feedback on a person's writing without causing offence or hurting feelings. It is difficult to do so. (This comes from experience as a screenplay reader. Ouch). I usually just avoid it now, but here goes:

-- I find run-on sentences hard (even tortuous) to read.

-- What a writer intends to mean and how the reader interprets it can be two very different things. Once this concept is absorbed and applied (ie willingness to rewrite several times if necessary) writing will improve.

Thanks
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mgkimsal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I am quite acquainted with the challenge of wanting to offer constructive feedback on a person's writing without causing offence or hurting feelings. It is difficult to do so. (This comes from experience as a screenplay reader. Ouch). I usually just avoid it now, but here goes:

-- I find run-on sentences hard (even tortuous) to read.

-- What a writer intends to mean and how the reader interprets it can be two very different things. Once this concept is absorbed and applied (ie willingness to rewrite several times if necessary) writing will improve.

Ultimately, I can't control someone's feelings, only they can. If someone gets upset because I say that they have poor writing skills (and can demonstrate objectively this is the case), it's up to them to figure out what to do with that info. Some people get upset, some people get angry, some people figure out how to improve based on the feedback.

I say this as someone who spent too much time in my life getting upset at people who gave me valuable input. Most of the regrets I have in life are the times when I completely ignored input from someone with considerably more experience than I had, and "did my own thing" because of ego. Not saying I have many regrets, but the few I do tend to fall in that category.

Thanks
1 reply

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WD Mino

14 years ago

Hi,

thanks for your input.
You missed the point.

I have written,rewritten and rewritten again. Now it is coming along very nicely. I take suggestions and have implemented an awful lot of them. Ultimately it is the customer who I am concerned with or I would not have asked for help to begin with. Because I used i dunno that is tacky admittedly but most of the people speaking to me on here are friends and I listen to them. Have you ever noticed if a person quit smoking suddenly they are an expert on why and how everyone else should do it? The fact is I try very hard I am learning at a very great pace and I have an earnest desire to help people starting out.

@T Bird I didn't know you read screenplays yikes that could be a grueling job for sure.

Listen I seem to be coming off in a different manner then intended and that is not cool. I don't want to hear anymore of how I should listen just look at the page and see I am listening.

This is not a thread for people to be mean but for the most part people haven't been I am quite proud of myself for doing this on my own well now with the help of good people who have offered sound advice. some of the comments directed at me don't make any sense to me I am listening for crying out loud so stop saying that or I am gonna get pissed off

All I was trying to say about the graphics was simple I LIKE THEM and contrary to some people's opinion so do many others. when Karl made me a graphic i was blown away someone would do anything like that for me. I have on occasion designed logos for people and given them to them just because,however I never expected anyone to do anything like that for me and when karl did so I put it up. that is called swallowing your pride. Please if you can't be realistic in your posts don't post ff

@Bev thanks Bev -But, it seems you haven't changed as you taking help personally. Nobody said anything about you personally. People are trying to help with regards to your site.

Take your ego out of the comments and you will go a lot further. That is some unfair stuff to say

and I for one need you to understand what I said before had nothing to do with you in fact when you said what you did I thought how vain can you be. The turkey posting was the one I was actually referring to and then he decided to go post it somewhere else but funny thing is I for some reason came across it within hrs and responded. The fact is I don't choose to do things on my own because I am stubborn..well

ok I am admittedly but I choose to do them because I need to know . I plan on being around for a long time and when I am able I will hire on staff a copywriter right now I have a programmer that is good enough How can I critique others sites if I don't know how to do it myself? I can't being as I am instructing I needed to know how to do it properly so I am and I am pretty pleased with it now.

-WD

Originally Posted by mgkimsal

Ultimately, I can't control someone's feelings, only they can. If someone gets upset because I say that they have poor writing skills (and can demonstrate objectively this is the case), it's up to them to figure out what to do with that info. Some people get upset, some people get angry, some people figure out how to improve based on the feedback.

I say this as someone who spent too much time in my life getting upset at people who gave me valuable input. Most of the regrets I have in life are the times when I completely ignored input from someone with considerably more experience than I had, and "did my own thing" because of ego. Not saying I have many regrets, but the few I do tend to fall in that category.

Thanks

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capper 14 years ago

WD

I'm sure your offer is great but you have to ask the question "would I reach for my credit card and sign up?"

If you are honest with yourself I think you know the answer to that question is No.

I realise this is a work in progress but IMHO you need to buid more confidence in your potential prospects before they sign up. That means a slicker more professional looking site with better sales copy.

You've been given some good advice here by people who really know their stuff, It's up to you whether you use it.

Good Luck

Mark
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Bev Clement

14 years ago

It is nice to see some changes to the site, as many said it has a long way to go yet.

But, it seems you haven't changed as you taking help personally. Nobody said anything about you personally. People are trying to help with regards to your site.

Take your ego out of the comments and you will go a lot further.

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...y-site-me.html

If you're going to use the buy now button, and have 2 levels of membership have two seperate areas on the page to buy, don't leave them together. People will always go for the cheaper option.

You could sell them the cheaper level and then let them upgrade once they are inside.

It is still too vague about what is inside. The products listed sound (not saying they are) like products which you can buy cheaply or even get for free from many sites. This is why it is important to say what they are and not be vague.

Ask yourself this question. Imagine for a moment you don't know memberprods, you have never seen a membership site to run an online business before.

You come to memberprods and you come to another website which list almost the same products. What is going through your mind, what makes you choose one over the other, if they both have the same products? True, you could say they are not the same products, but without knowing which ones they are then how can people tell. They don't read your mind, they don't know you, they need to be convinced before spending. Just because you understand the site, doesn't mean a buyer does.

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WD Mino

14 years ago

Bump.

Ok I am getting some testimonials as much as I hate to use them at least these will be real and based on user experience.

I have done a great deal with the page now Thank you so much for helping me

-WD

Thanks

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