I'm F pissed now!!! (should I be angry or just move on???)

[dylanloh]

Hey guys,

I'm really really mad now. If I don't let of some steam here I think I'm gonna explode my kidneys! Just got discharged for kidney infection today.

Bear with me here's the story:

There's this guy who approached me for a JV in the IM niche. Saying that if I helped him out in his launch, he'll be able to reciprocate in a BIG way in another niche and basically tell me and show me everything there is to attacking that particular niche.

Of course, I would never promote crap and their product is pretty alright and since I would be able to make extra money in the other niche I agreed, since it made good business sense. On launch day, I sent to only half my list and made a fair amount of sales for them. Note that I agreed to promote them, I didn't say how many people I'd promote too.

(I had another scheduled mailing that day so I couldn't commit my full list)

So they sent me an email asking and virtually demanding that I sent out to my other half. I was quite angry actually and sent him back and email asking them what rights do they have to demand I send to my other half. They apologised, I felt bad and promptly promoted to my other half bringing them more sales.

End of chapter 1 of the story.

Now, all along the way, they kept lobbing promises at me, asking me when was I gonna launch the product in that niche. Telling me the kind of money that could be made in that niche and telling me how they would help me out in a big way.

But being the lazy guy that I am, I kept procrastinating. They were productive and they launched their next IM product. This product was better the their 1st one and actually I thought it was pretty good. I agreed to promote in principle but I didn't commit to a date. So that seem to get them hot under their collor so they heckled me into commiting to a date. And I did. It was quite a successful promo.

Note that all along I've been the one giving and they are they ones receiving. Yes, they helped in out in one of my IM launches too but in their own words 'it wasn't much of a help'.

Reaching the climax of the story now.

So now I've finally got my act together. I've got the product done, salesletter done. Under their recommendation, I hired this ghostwriter who wrote the book for me. This was under their strong personal recommendation!

So when I finally approached them and asked of they can help out as they have always promised so. They said no. And the reason.......is...because that the ghostwriter didn't understand that niche at all. That the product was bad!

This was the very freaking guy they recommended to me!!!!

So after pouring good money, they told me to 'forget about launching this' in their own words. OUCH!

I would never force anyone to promote something. I wouldn't even pressure them. But I sent them an angry email giving them a piece of my mind.

Now warriors, if you were in my shoes. Would you be miffed too? Or is it a case of lesson learnt, choose your partners carefully next time?

Thanks for hearing and letting me rant!!

Cheers
Dylan

[James Schramko]

I wouldnt sell my customers out in the first place.

[dylanloh]

I didn't 'sell my customers out'. Like what I mentioned above, I did review both their IM products.

[Ernie Lonardo]

I can understand your upset, but just put it down to bad judgment or bad luck. I would never work with some one who was that pushy.

You did say you made several sales from the promotion so just look at it that way and sell the off the product you have outsourced to someone else or go ahead with it.

You can turn this into a positive and profitable experience. But yeah obviously ditch the partner.

[Kevin Riley]

Dylan

Just heard about the kidney infection on Facebook. Hope you're feeling better.

AS for this story, it's hard to say as there are so many factors playing here. I often entered into barter agreements when I was in construction, and never got the same back. I try to avoid them now.

[Asher]

I wouldn't attempt to say that I understand how you feel
because I don't. But in response to reading your title,
I'd say move on.

Bad experiences just serve to help us learn.

Asher

[JayXtreme]

Forget about it...

I know it's harsh but wipe your mouth and move on..

Your soul will love you for it

Peace

Jay

[Jeffery]

A few things (holes) I do not understand. How did they know you only sent out to half your list? Did you tell them that?

List wise, they now have your subs, i.e. a list of people who pay. Of course I am assuming they captured the email addresses.

The worse part is since they would do this to you (healthy list owner) is how they will treat/manage your subs.. pretty much the same way as they treated you I would venture to guess. You may loose a substantial portion of your list as an end result.

You may want to ask your list if they were happy with their purchase and get some feedback. Find out what is going on behind closed doors. Find out how they are being treated. Are they experiencing SPAM, etc. Was the list sold?

Sorry to hear about it all Dylan.

Jeffery 100% :-)

[Jeffery]

Nah, sorry guys, but I would not put this behind me and move on. The man's list is at stake. Be a Warrior I say!

Jeffery 100% :-)

[Paul M]

I am just going to assume that you earned affiliate commission off the product launch,
so its really just a typical JV which made you money.

Second, as mentioned above you can always research an re-work the ebook
you had created, I know its extra work but you can turn this into a profitable
situation.

Plus you've learned a valuable lesson in picking JV partners, So I would just
move on and don't dwell on it.

paul

[James Schramko]

Originally Posted by dylanloh

I didn't 'sell my customers out'. Like what I mentioned above, I did review both their IM products.

What I mean is - I am not for sale and that is my advice to you.

Only review something if you want to and you truly believe it is for the good of your client. - not because you are heckled into it.

In the future do not deal with those people and promote from the heart. The rest will fall into place. Never compromise yourself.

[dylanloh]

Hello guys!

Thanks, I know how I should deal with this

Not gonna let this small issue sour my mood for too long!

Dylan

P.S.

Kevin - feeling much better thanks

Jeffrey - he counted the number of hops I sent him in his clickbank account. He knew how big my list was and he told me he knew it was definitely not my full list. And I told him the truth.

[James Schramko]

Dylan,

If you provide more value to your subscribers than the other guys then your subscribers will stay with you.

Could you take this opportunity to find a good writer in the market you were excited about attack it a little harder and move in on your nemesis?

[junckster]

Hey Dylan,

Man, do I wish I'd learned a bunch of this stuff before I was 30. You
haven't even made 25 yet, have you? Be VERY happy - you'll be a
frickin' genius by age 30.

I can't say that I've got a lot of wisdom from which to speak, but...
I strongly believe that there are a lot of selfish, self-centered people
everywhere. I'm sure each of us catches ourselves being that person
at times.

But the person you describe seems stubborn - they are and WILL BE
that selfish person, now and forever. Lesson learned.

At the same time, this reminds me of the, "So, do you give up on
loving people?" question. No - you jump in whole-heartedly again.
But with a bit more sophistication, less expectation of reciprocation,
and an extra healthy dose of happiness and joy when the
reciprocation does kick in.

And you've also wiped this guy off your list of people to trust. That's
good progress.

Cheers,
Tim

[AndrewCavanagh]

From a personal view point.

If you're saying "should I be angry" or "should I just move on"?

Move on.

It's healthier.

Also remember that whenever you're dealing with people there are always going to be disappointments, surprises and unexpected events.

It's just part of the process.

Sometimes you have a huge win, sometimes things turn out pretty much as expected and sometimes you have a loss.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

[BIG Mike]

Been there, dealt with it.

Being pissed off about it is normal so work through your anger, learn from the experience and move on. You'll be far better off in the long run.

[Joseph Then]

Dylan, get p***ed, take a cool, ice coke, and move on.

There are many more things to be p***ed in life than this one.

Hey, what's the niche anyway?

[TedMarlett]

I'd say move on also. If you don't and continue to whip this to death you just may harbor the feelings and thoughts toward anyone who wants to do business in the future.

As they say in the off-computer world, and starting to say in the online world, get references on the people you want to do business with. If they come back not so clean--don't do business.

[Lance K]

Dylan, first of all, sorry to hear about the kidney infection, and glad to hear you're feeling better.

As far as this situation goes, I see it a little differently. When you agree to promote something to your list, most people are gooing to assume that means to your whole list unless you specify up front. If you had another promotion coming up and only wanted to mail to half, you should have worked that out in the beginning.

As for them not promoting your product due to quality, you yourself said that quality of their product played a role in your decision to promote their products (as it should). So do you really expect them to promote yours if there is a quality issue? Just because they recommend a ghost writher that they've had success with in different niches doesn't mean they're guaranteed to work well in your niche. If there is truly a quality issue, fix it rather than point the finger at others.

The way I see it, perhaps it is the tone of their communication that's bothering you. Because to me there isn't much wrong with the substance of their actions. Though I agree that they should be willing to work with you to promote your product once their concerns are adequately addressed.

[Bob Willoughby]

I think that the "Law if Attraction" comes into play here. You learned a lesson. Be the smarter person and spend your energy on positive things!

[Greg Cooksley]

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Been there, dealt with it.

Being pissed off about it is normal so work through your anger,
learn from the experience and move on. You'll be far better off
in the long run.

Hey Dylan,

I agree with Big Mike, move on as quickly as you can....

Take what positives you can from the experience and learn from
it....

Just remember - what goes around, comes around - so, those other
dudes will reap from what they have sowed.....it's irrefutable!!!!

Regards

Greg

[Adam Kenzington]

Hey Dylan,

These folks are not worth your time. Yes, they burned you. (Pushy Jerks!) But now use that frustration to fuel your resolve to make the necessary improvements to your new product.

Make it so good that the jerks will come begging you to let them promote it so they can hop a ride with you on the Gravy Train...

Then, turn them down. Let them know that you don't want their questionable ethics and lack of character tainting your product launch. You know, guilt by association...being known by the company you keep, etc...

But bottom line, let it go, for YOUR sake. It will affect your own well being. (Case in point; Did the kidney infection happen to come on while you were dealing with this whole drama?)

Holding a grudge is like swallowing poison and expecting the other person to die. It's just not worth it. The jerks will get theirs. Life has a funny way seeing to that. Just hope your around to see it .

Glad to hear you're feeling better,

Adam

[Chris Lockwood]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

A few things (holes) I do not understand. How did they know you only sent out to half your list? Did you tell them that?

That's what I'm wondering, too.

[gareth]

Man is this product really crap ???

Maybe if it is thay are right and the ghost writer screwed up. I am curious how you have been communicating with these guys ??

Over phone or what ??

Hope your health gets better. Cheers

[Kim Standerline]

Dylan

Have you considered that the product your offering is is crap and they won't promote it for a very good reason.

Yes they may have recommended the ghostwriter, but they cant promise you any type of delivery from him. it may be that what he has written is rubbish, have you bothered to edit it or even check it.

You say you wouldn't promote rubbish to your list, why would you expect your partners to promote rubbish to theirs.

Kim

Originally Posted by dylanloh

Hey guys,

I'm really really mad now. If I don't let of some steam here I think I'm gonna explode my kidneys! Just got discharged for kidney infection today.

Bear with me here's the story:

There's this guy who approached me for a JV in the IM niche. Saying that if I helped him out in his launch, he'll be able to reciprocate in a BIG way in another niche and basically tell me and show me everything there is to attacking that particular niche.

Of course, I would never promote crap and their product is pretty alright and since I would be able to make extra money in the other niche I agreed, since it made good business sense. On launch day, I sent to only half my list and made a fair amount of sales for them. Note that I agreed to promote them, I didn't say how many people I'd promote too.

(I had another scheduled mailing that day so I couldn't commit my full list)

So they sent me an email asking and virtually demanding that I sent out to my other half. I was quite angry actually and sent him back and email asking them what rights do they have to demand I send to my other half. They apologised, I felt bad and promptly promoted to my other half bringing them more sales.

End of chapter 1 of the story.

Now, all along the way, they kept lobbing promises at me, asking me when was I gonna launch the product in that niche. Telling me the kind of money that could be made in that niche and telling me how they would help me out in a big way.

But being the lazy guy that I am, I kept procrastinating. They were productive and they launched their next IM product. This product was better the their 1st one and actually I thought it was pretty good. I agreed to promote in principle but I didn't commit to a date. So that seem to get them hot under their collor so they heckled me into commiting to a date. And I did. It was quite a successful promo.

Note that all along I've been the one giving and they are they ones receiving. Yes, they helped in out in one of my IM launches too but in their own words 'it wasn't much of a help'.

Reaching the climax of the story now.

So now I've finally got my act together. I've got the product done, salesletter done. Under their recommendation, I hired this ghostwriter who wrote the book for me. This was under their strong personal recommendation!

So when I finally approached them and asked of they can help out as they have always promised so. They said no. And the reason.......is...because that the ghostwriter didn't understand that niche at all. That the product was bad!

This was the very freaking guy they recommended to me!!!!

So after pouring good money, they told me to 'forget about launching this' in their own words. OUCH!

I would never force anyone to promote something. I wouldn't even pressure them. But I sent them an angry email giving them a piece of my mind.

Now warriors, if you were in my shoes. Would you be miffed too? Or is it a case of lesson learnt, choose your partners carefully next time?

Thanks for hearing and letting me rant!!

Cheers
Dylan

[Kay King]

He knew how big my list was and he told me he knew it was definitely not my full list. And I told him the truth.

What was the original agreement? Did you agree to promote to "my list" or to "some of my list"? If the JV was to be promoted to your list and you did only half of it, that doesn't label you as trustworthy to a partner.

Several times you mention a delay, procrastination, etc. on your part. How long was that delay? You say they were productive and produced a second product that you then promoted - and they were asking you when your product would be ready. Why were you procrastinating when you had entered into an agreement?

I also wonder what the quality of your finished product was. No matter what writer you used, did you verify the info and usefulness of the product written? Did you check the facts contained in the product or make changes to improve it? How much attention did you give the product you were launching under your name before sending it on for a partner to promote?

I'm not saying you shouldn't be disappointed - but you should also look at whether you kept your part of the JV agreement.

kay

[Andyhenry]

Hi Dylan,

I'd say this was a great lesson.

One of the best things about IM is that you can choose who you work with - This is a great reminder that there's more to business than taking every opportunity to make money.

I know you probably want to be told that you're right to be angry (and you are), but keeping that anger only increases the impact these idiots have had on your business, so just make a note of this experience and learn from it.

YOU are the only person responsible for your results and your business, so whatever your expectations were, just be sure that YOU can get the results you desire for your business no matter what anyone else does. If others live up to their promises and help your business grow - that's great, but it should be aswell as your own activities being enough to get you there on their own.

Think of it like having a share portfolio:

It makes sense to have some high risk shares that could overperform massively, but your plan should have reliable performers that alone would also eventually create your desired results. If the risky ones come in and get you there earlier -great, if not - you're still on a path to success.

Andy

[Easy Cash]

Like any business venture.

Start with a written contractural agreement. This is pretty easy to get together.

Come to agreement with all the terms from both parties. Highlight everything in detail.

Get both parties to sign it before work commences.

If you are really serious - get your solicitor/attorney to countersign it.

As soon as you try and implement something like this you will find out pretty quickly if the other party is dodgy or not.

Treat it like a business transaction.

[Andyhenry]

Originally Posted by Easy Cash

Like any business venture.

Start with a written contractural agreement. This is pretty easy to get together.

Come to agreement with all the terms from both parties. Highlight everything in detail.

Get both parties to sign it before work commences.

If you are really serious - get your solicitor/attorney to countersign it.

As soon as you try and implement something like this you will find out pretty quickly if the other party is dodgy or not.

Treat it like a business transaction.

Wow that's starting to sound like a job again. I hate doing things like that when we have the option to just choose people we like and trust to work with.

I can see why people might like to do the contract thing, but it tends to depersonalise the experience and when doing business personally can be so rewarding it seems a shame.

[Easy Cash]

Originally Posted by Andyhenry

Wow that's starting to sound like a job again. I hate doing things like that when we have the option to just choose people we like and trust to work with.

I can see why people might like to do the contract thing, but it tends to depersonalise the experience and when doing business personally can be so rewarding it seems a shame.

True - you can choose who you work with and trust them - but if you are looking for new opportunities and don't know them for a bar of soap - then having some sort of agreement for the first JV will allow you to see if they are geniune or not.

I wouldn't think it depersonalises the experience - it just makes it professional and above board.

Best to cover your arse than have to deal with been ripped off down the track - it certainly isn't a pleasant experience.