Suggestion for improving the quality of WSOs

[Joe118]

I have been buying WSOs for a while now, and I usually post a positive review on WSOs I like. But recently I've had a spate of WSOs that I was forced to request a refund for, either because they were rehashed ideas or badly written or plain BS. NO I am not going to name names, sorry.

Jeremy Kelsall came up with a brilliant idea for improving the quality of WSOs:

Instead of moderating/approving WSOs, moderate/approve who can post WSOs.

Simple, elegant, and tidy solution to improving the quality.

New people that want to post a WSO would have to get approved through a process that includes being sponsored by a person that is already approved for posting WSOs. There'd also be a probationary period (the first three-four WSOs) where the sponsor would review the WSOs before they get posted.

How you get the person to sponsor you is between you and that person -- sending him/her a new Mercedes might work or (probably better) getting them to review your first WSO for free. Oh and because new people cannot send PMs until they have fifty posts, that would also take care of the drive-by WSO thing where a person with 1 post pays the War Room fees and posts their WSO; this devalues the forum because they are treating it like a marketplace, not a community.

Comments?

[MJ Sterling]

Maybe I don't have the right to comment on this issue, and as I don't have any plans to release a WSO this doesn't effect me.

However, it looks like the WSO section is the main source of revenue for the warrior forum owners and being completely amazed by this fantastic resource they have created, I wouldn't like to see their income stream take a hit by fewer WSOs being posted.

The nice thing about WSOs is being able to leave comments about the purchase, I've done it myself to let others know I've found a WSO valuable. I imagine others will do the same if they purchase something less than the quality they were expecting.

And yes, supporting their efforts by upgrading to the war room is on my list of things to do

[mariochase]

I don't think this is going to happen anyways.

There are a lot of ****ty WSO out there.. I'm sure.

Normally I personally only want to launch products that have something to add. Like Case Studies or other stuff.

But a lot of guys have been creating the same old thing.

When It comes to CPA.. this happens a lot. I have been seeing
the same old thing being copied about 100 times. It's kind of hard
finding something unique in this market.

Probably because the thing is:
It's a simple thing.. just go out and do it.. and see the results.

You're going to learn way more stuff by doing it.. and trying to get results.. than trying to buy the next big thing. Or the perfect solution. There is no perfect solution, there are 1000 ways of making the same thing.

Making money on the internet is the same thing.

[WD Mino]

That won't work there are already way too many that are not delivering properly if they already have posted it would be easy for them to "approve " Admin does a very good job looking things over but they cannot know every person out of how many hundreds and thousands of members.

The bottom line is there should be a stricter rule for posting in the wso section. I have already seen offers that other members had to come in and say hey this is mine. offer then deleted. I mean it is gonna happen but we as a community need to vote for a different regulation for the posting of wso people are coming in paying the 20.00 happily only to walk away with the hard earned cash of our fellow members. maybe have it where the person posting must have a phone verification before the review even takes place. something to connect them in case there is any issue

That is my thought.

-WD

[Joe118]

Originally Posted by Johnathan

It sounds nice in theory, but then you get issues of competition, and abuse of power. I.e., some individuals might decide 'not' to approve something simply because it competes with their own product or service, or maybe they don't like someone's point of view, etc. Secondly, without any clear guidelines of what constitutes 'quality', it would be highly subjective where one person might only approve those that sounded like a PhD diseration, whereas others would be quite content if it just had lots of pictures.

At the moment, the feedback that users can give is a type of rating system. If you were to put something more sophisticated together, it would require some thought and planning.

Jonathan, I agree completely it's not going to happen. I just wanted to put Jeremy's idea out there to garner feedback and comments.

You pointed out some problems with the system I suggested. Well, if there's a conflict of interest with your sponsor, just get a different person to sponsor you I don't have an answer for the other issue, that quality is subjective. But I know manure when I see it

[Zeus66]

Maybe an even simpler answer would be to raise the price substantially. You might do it once, but if your product is so lame it can't clear a profit after a heftier fee to get it posted, pretty soon the chaff will fall away. You don't have to constantly bump your WSO to make regular sales, as long as it's getting good feedback and you're active in the forum on a regular basis. Newbies and quick hitters just trying to make a buck won't take that kind of time or invest that kind of effort. Just my 2¢ worth.

[Joe118]

Originally Posted by Zeus66

Maybe an even simpler answer would be to raise the price substantially. You might do it once, but if your product is so lame it can't clear a profit after a heftier fee to get it posted, pretty soon the chaff will fall away. You don't have to constantly bump your WSO to make regular sales, as long as it's getting good feedback and you're active in the forum on a regular basis. Newbies and quick hitters just trying to make a buck won't take that kind of time or invest that kind of effort. Just my 2¢ worth.

Oh, you mean that comments would bump it? So a popular WSO would stay on page 1 naturally? Now you're talking about cutting off 70% of the profit that the WSO forum makes...

[Steven Wagenheim]

Here's a novel concept. It's one I apply to any store I walk into when I go
to purchase anything.

1. I read the offer and look to see if it is something that I might need and
might help me.

2. I look to see if there is anything about the offer that seems a bit fuzzy.
If so, I ask questions...lots of them.

3. I then look to see how long the person has been a member of this forum
and how much they've contributed in that period of time. If they've been
here a short time, have few posts and no reputation, I think twice about
buying.

4. I look to see if there is a money back guarantee. If so, for how long?
If not...red flag.

5. I look to see what comments there are on the WSO and by whom they
have been made. If they're all by a bunch of new members, I take those
comments with a grain of salt.

6. This is something few people think of. I click on the buy now link and
see what company info I can get. Even an email address gives me
something to go on where I can head to whois and do some digging.

You never know what you'll find.

7. I use some common sense. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably
is.

If more people used some common sense and just did their due diligence,
we wouldn't need WSO rules.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

[Joe118]

Excellent ideas, Steve. I also always click thru to the sales page and look for contact info. 80% of the time there's none. I do the whois thing also. I go even further, I use a service to find out what other domains the person has and what other domains are on the same IP.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Here's a novel concept. It's one I apply to any store I walk into when I go
to purchase anything.

1. I read the offer and look to see if it is something that I might need and
might help me.

2. I look to see if there is anything about the offer that seems a bit fuzzy.
If so, I ask questions...lots of them.

3. I then look to see how long the person has been a member of this forum
and how much they've contributed in that period of time. If they've been
here a short time, have few posts and no reputation, I think twice about
buying.

4. I look to see if there is a money back guarantee. If so, for how long?
If not...red flag.

5. I look to see what comments there are on the WSO and by whom they
have been made. If they're all by a bunch of new members, I take those
comments with a grain of salt.

6. This is something few people think of. I click on the buy now link and
see what company info I can get. Even an email address gives me
something to go on where I can head to whois and do some digging.

You never know what you'll find.

7. I use some common sense. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably
is.

If more people used some common sense and just did their due diligence,
we wouldn't need WSO rules.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

[Zeus66]

Originally Posted by Joe118

Oh, you mean that comments would bump it? So a popular WSO would stay on page 1 naturally? Now you're talking about cutting off 70% of the profit that the WSO forum makes...

No, I mean that if you put out a really solid WSO and it gets lots of good feedback, and if you are active in the forum on a regular basis and have links in your sig to your WSO, you don't need bumps. So, the higher up front cost of a WSO would weed out some of the people you'd rather see not put them out there, while not deterring those who are serious about this forum and providing value to other Warriors.

Something like that.

[Joe118]

Originally Posted by Zeus66

No, I mean that if you put out a really solid WSO and it gets lots of good feedback, and if you are active in the forum on a regular basis and have links in your sig to your WSO, you don't need bumps. So, the higher up front cost of a WSO would weed out some of the people you'd rather see not put them out there, while not deterring those who are serious about this forum and providing value to other Warriors.

Something like that.

Respectfully disagree. Even excellent WSOs need bumps. Anyways that's true now because of the incredible din in the WSO room. If there was less hullabaloo there maybe you're right, they would not need bumps.

[Zeus66]

I can't write this without making it sound like I'm tooting my own horn, so I guess I won't try, but that's just wrong, Joe. I haven't bumped any of my WSO's in weeks, and I make sales regularly. If you help folks out in the forum on a regular basis, it pays you back in spades. And a nice list of subscribers who trust you doesn't hurt, either.

[Joe118]

Originally Posted by Zeus66

I can't write this without making it sound like I'm tooting my own horn, so I guess I won't try, but that's just wrong, Joe. I haven't bumped any of my WSO's in weeks, and I make sales regularly. If you help folks out in the forum on a regular basis, it pays you back in spades. And a nice list of subscribers who trust you doesn't hurt, either.

Zeus, your WSOs are good, plus you have them updated regularly in your sig. I plan to do the same -- i.e. have killer WSOs and have them in my sig and of course post prolifically all over the forum.

[Liam Hamer]

I think some kind of feedback system, similar to Ebay might work well. Maybe something as simple as a scale of 1-10 and a comment. If somehow the Warrior member's account, the purchase and the feedback could be integrated(to prevent multiple account abuse etc) I think it could be a winner

[Joe118]

Originally Posted by Liam Hamer

I think some kind of feedback system, similar to Ebay might work well. Maybe something as simple as a scale of 1-10 and a comment. If somehow the Warrior member's account, the purchase and the feedback could be integrated(to prevent multiple account abuse etc) I think it could be a winner

Not a bad idea, if it was secure against abuse (as you point out).

[JEL0221]

Although many probably would not be a fan of it, raising the cost of putting in a WSO could weed out the people who take the WSO less seriously.

If you had to pay a higher price to get it posted, then you would have a smaller margin and want to sell as many copies possible...you would only be able to do this if you had some good reviews and good comments following the WSO posting.

Although my opinion is a little biased. As Steve said, I always make sure there is a guarantee, good reviews, good commentary on people who have already purchased, and dig up what I can on the poster.

When I first arrived to the forum I did not know any better and did not do much research on the WSO. I got burnt more than once, and now I have learned the hard way.

....I would not be so worried about experienced members than I would with new forum members who have not been around the block.

[Dennis Gaskill]

Anytime you add rules you will have people seeking ways to bend them to their advantage. This often comes at the expense of those who play nice.

About the only rule that isn't a rule that I'd consider supporting (that I can think of right now) is that every WSO could be required to have a money back guarantee. If you don't offer it, you can't post the WSO. If you offer it and don't honor it, you can't post another WSO.

...and I'm not sure if I'd even support that! I'm guessing as soon as this post goes up someone will offer a valid reason why it that's not a good idea. Go ahead, have fun with it!

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Joe118

Respectfully disagree. Even excellent WSOs need bumps.

I've been tracking the performance of my WSO rather closely, and a bump apparently makes zero difference in number and speed of sales. When I first posted, I made a few sales. A week later, I bumped it. And then I just watched. Sales didn't speed up when I bumped it. Sales didn't slow down when I didn't.

That's just one WSO, though. I'll pipe up if my next WSO does something different.

[businessmatt]

Originally Posted by Liam Hamer

I think some kind of feedback system, similar to Ebay might work well. Maybe something as simple as a scale of 1-10 and a comment. If somehow the Warrior member's account, the purchase and the feedback could be integrated(to prevent multiple account abuse etc) I think it could be a winner

That is a pretty good idea. I'm a member of a couple of forums with classified sections that have a feedback system built in. It works very well. You buy something, you like it, you give them positive feedback. You don't like it, you leave them negative feedback.

[CDarklock]

Originally Posted by Liam Hamer

I think some kind of feedback system

If you like the WSO, click thanks.

What's wrong with that? You look at the WSO and see how many thanks it has. That's the number of Warriors willing to vouch for the vendor and say "I liked this product."

Personally I like Paul's idea - Do not order from...

What many need to understand is that there is no perfect system ...

* Not everybody uses the thanks button
* Not everybody post a review
* Some actually want to remain nameless as they do not want others to know what they purchased.

There are many many other reasons ... So suggesting this or that may sound good but it does not always work that way ... Just use common sense before buying..

James

[Jeremy Kelsall]

I made that suggestion in response to a thread that Paul Myers started about how to "stay safe" when buying WSO's..

BUT

I already follow that practice

I buy into people not products. If Member Come Lately is selling his wares...I don't buy until I'm comfortable with that person regardless of whether they have a refund policy or not.

Here is the reality of the situation...

This community is about the warmest pool of leads you will ever come across when it comes to selling information products related to making money online.

People here break down into a couple of different categories, but one thing that they have in common is the fact that they are all looking for a way to either add to their existing earnings or to start earning something. So, sales on products for sale here, usually do pretty well.

What is making the "situation" worse is that there are actual mainstream products whose "technique" to making money online teach people to:

1. come here
2. Rewrite some PLR product
3. Write a sales page
4. Sell it

So, that is exactly what they are doing...

Even the rash of "free wso's" as of late has stemmed greatly from 2 other products that I know of that tell people to build their list from the WSO section. So, the masses of people - The good, the bad, and the ugly are here to stay

But, what makes the section more appealing to many is the fact that the WSO section is "brought up" so often places like the general forum...Like the WSO section is the main section of The Warrior Forum and everthing else is just extra - which isn't the case.

The solution to solving the problems, if there are any goes as follows.

1. Support those that you trust
2. Support those that put out good products
3. Make someone earn your trust and your money instead of buying into pipe dreams

The only ones that can keep that part of the forum "clean" are the members here.

Making people have a mandatory number of posts doesn't work. When this was done, people just spammed to get to the number of posts.

Making people be a member for a certain number of time, won't work. Did you know that WF accounts are sold on other forums? lol

Raising the cost of posting WSO's, won't work unless you make it like $500 - In which cases, the products themselves would be a minimu of $67 - So, everyone loses.

Instead....

Stop buying Black_Hat_ManiacXXX's product on how to make $1,000,000,000 a day with CPA marketing.

Demand answers when you buy a WSO and it is the exact same WSO that you bought from someone else last week.

and

Stop taking sales pages so literally.

Some see that section as "broken" somehow - I see it as a goldmine! I bought 2 products last week...one was a piece of software, one was a "how-to" book and both of them have more than paid for themselves in a short period of time. Both of the people that I purchased from have proven themselves to be legitimate vendors and not some guy that just got a bonus report from another product that told him to run to the WF to milk it's members of as much cash as they could.

Use your head.

[Ehanson]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall

What is making the "situation" worse is that there are actual mainstream products whose "technique" to making money online teach people to:

1. come here
2. Rewrite some PLR product
3. Write a sales page
4. Sell it

So, that is exactly what they are doing...

Even the rash of "free wso's" as of late has stemmed greatly from 2 other products that I know of that tell people to build their list from the WSO section. So, the masses of people - The good, the bad, and the ugly are here to stay

This is one of the main problems with not only the WSO section but internet marketing as a whole.

Many people read bad advice telling them the way to make money on the internet is to sell how to make money on the internet products. That's fine except if you haven't made a penny online or don't have experience with making a livable income online. But as others said there is no perfect system and bad advice will continue to be given out to newbies.

People who sell crappy WSO's are only hurting their reputation in the long run. It's very easy to post a WSO but if you're selling junk, you don't become a valuable member of this community and just think of the WSO as an ATM well... you know what they say about reputation.

Finally, this might seem silly but it could also be the poor economy and people looking for ways to make emergency cash. When people are under financial stress many make impulsive decisions.

[jficarro]

One thing that would be nice is some brave honesty in reviews from those who have purchased.

When I first started with the forum there were some relentless reviewers (one guy in particular) that used to get on my nerves... asking 4 and 5 questions before spending a lousy $7 or whatever. But after time, I began to appreciate what they were doing - particularly when they would come back two days later and say the product was lacking for this reason or that.

It seems lately, that everyone that posts is so happy with the product and the product "over devlivered" etc... If that's the truth than great, but even the finest products could have some negative aspects to them.

I think that some people don't want to admit that they purchased a dud or (as previously stated) that they purchased at all.

I'm an experienced marketer, and sometimes I am a little shy to announce to the world that I'm getting a book on something that I already know a lot about. I shouldn't be like that. There's always room to grow (plus I like to know what the competition is up to).

Anyway.... some fairly brutal (but professional) honesty would be the best safeguard against bad WSOs

PS Most of the WSO's I've gotten have been great. I have been given review copies that I thought were absolutely terrible. Instead of giving a bad review, I just didn't comment at all. (ok, I was a hypocrit). But - new year, new resolution. Total honesty with reviews - we'll all be better off for it (even the marketer - as he/she can make adjustments).

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by businessmatt

That is a pretty good idea. I'm a member of a couple of forums with classified sections that have a feedback system built in. It works very well. You buy something, you like it, you give them positive feedback. You don't like it, you leave them negative feedback.

We already have a feedback system. It's called "Post Reply" - hit that magic button and you can provide detailed or general feedback. And it's less open for abuse than an anonymous feedback system because you have to put your username to it. Even hitting the "Thanks" button puts your username on display.

If people really want to clean up the WSO section, it's a two-step process...

1. Do some due diligence before hitting the buy button. Use your brain for something besides keeping your ears apart.

2. Post meaningful feedback in the WSO thread - the good, the bad and the ugly. Ask for your refund and post why you asked. Call out thieves and cheats.

Unless people are ready and willing to take these two simple steps, complaining about it is not going to change anything.

[Liam Hamer]

Originally Posted by CDarklock

If you like the WSO, click thanks.

What's wrong with that? You look at the WSO and see how many thanks it has. That's the number of Warriors willing to vouch for the vendor and say "I liked this product."

From what I have seen in my time here, the thanks button is rarely used when it comes to WSO's, unless it's a free one. If the thanks button was enough, threads like this wouldn't be made.