Fun question, not IM related!

22 replies
But it does ascertain to making money.

I'm writing a book currently. A novel, as it were. I was wondering if any of my badass fellow warriors knew exactly what I should or could to do get noticed by publishers?

Should I send out my hard copy to these companies and ask to be published?

OR should I call them first and see if they'd be interested in publishing me?

And for that matter, how should I go about finding a company to publish me?

IF you know, let me know!

I'd certainly welcome the information.

Thanks guys!

-Sean
#fun #question #related
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Sean,

    PM DeePower. She and her partner, Brian, have a ton of info on this, IIRC.

    Dee's the real deal. Been at the game for a long time. I'll vouch for her. And she's a class act.


    Paul
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    Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author Sissy76
    Your best bet is to find a literary agent. They have working relationships with publishing houses and are a trusted source for marketable talent.

    They will take a percentage cut of your earnings, but are well versed in the negotiation process to secure a better deal for you both.

    The process to finding a good literary agent is much the same as sending off an unsolicited manuscript to a publisher. You don't need to send off the entire manuscript, a chapter will do. The most important parts of your submission are an outline of your novel, chapter by chapter and your assessment of the target audience. Are there other successful titles in your genre? Who is your readership? What do they buy?

    Agents and publishers like to work with professionals, demonstrating that you have a detailed understanding of your market will set you head and shoulders above most submissions they receive. It shows that you understand that your book will need to sell and that you will have to do some promoting for that to happen.

    If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

    Cheers,
    Sissy
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    • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
      Paul, Thanks for that! I'll be in touch with her shortly.

      Sissy, Wow, I really didn't think that hard on my target audience. Though I'm guessing it could be anywhere from teens to adults 60+.

      Currently, my novel is a Noir/fantasy novel. Essentially my goal with this book is to make everything that has been so 'fantasized' in the public eye, vampires, werewolves, etc, and turn them into something different. I take these preconceived notions of monsters and beings and take them a whole new way. Even introduce monsters and the like of my own.

      Its fun as hell to write, and I assume it would be fun as hell to read. At least I'm hoping.

      I'll definitely do more research on who might enjoy my book.

      Thanks again guys!

      -Sean
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      • Profile picture of the author Sissy76
        The genre/s you describe are pretty hot right now, so you'd be well received by an agent, especially if you have something unique to offer within that genre. Easy to position yourself as the "next big thing" in a profitable market without having to copycat.

        Don't worry if you haven't finished your novel yet - it's better to get paid to finish it! You'll then also have deadlines to reach, which will make you get it done, rather than leaving it for 5 years and becoming far too precious about it.

        Best of luck!

        Sissy
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  • Profile picture of the author StaffPartyTrivia
    First, you need to determine the genre of your book
    Comedy, Drama, Horror, etc....

    Then you need to think about what books it is similar to
    ...and find publishers who have had GREAT successes with those books.
    They know how to market them, those successful books yours is similar to.

    Then you need to learn the FORMAT in which to present to the,
    - do they want a shelf-ready softcover with art?
    - do they want bound loose-leaf?
    - do they have a minimum/max page count?
    - do they require a certain font? ( I'm serious - try to sell a script not in courier 12pt )

    Then ... you need to ask yourself:

    - Do you have a protagonist that people will like? - or at least is INTERESTING?
    - What changes does he/she go through? this is ARC
    - without Character and Story ARCS , you will NOT sell your book. PERIOD.
    - Are the challenges he/she faces SIGNIFICANT?
    - Are the STAKES high enough? What happens if he does not succeed?

    Nobody wants to read a book about a guy who kinda sorta is trying to get back
    together with a woman he does not much like and who makes his life miserable
    ..... of course if he is interesting and perhaps she is carrying his child, then we
    have challenge, stakes ( may never see the kid or worse he may be raised without
    a father - or a bad step-father ...etc )

    Know the answer to these question - it's the one a publisher will ask ...

    Who would want to read your book ...what reward does that offer them?

    Then they will ask .... "Ok ... can you send me a 10 page treatment?"

    That is your book report full of the opening scene, plot points, introduction of characters, notable lines/dialogue, and it shuld describe the character and
    story arcs. If it doesn't. they won't read your book more than likely.

    Best
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Most unsolicited manuscripts hit the dumpster without being read. Seriously, follow Paul's advice and learn what you can from the resource he named (I don't know them, but Paul's advice is always good), and follow Sissy76's advice and start looking around for a literary agent.

    A literary agent can be invaluable in telling you how to prepare, plus they act as a screener for the publishers, weeding out low quality material and sending them good material. Publishers will pay a lot more attention to manuscripts coming from agents than unsolicited material.
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  • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
    Alrighty, I've been looking up literary agents, and I think I may have found some. They say I need a query letter to go with the first thousand words or so of my manuscript.

    Query letter anything like a cover letter? OR am I being naive?

    And for that matter, should I treat this like a job, and send out to more than one literary agent?

    -Sean
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Sean,

    Here's a good explanation of query letters. Personally, I would send the query out to a handful of agents and see what kind of response you get. Then based on that, you may have a line on an agent or you will hopefully have some good feedback on how to improve either your query letter, your book, or both. Then go from there.

    Try to find an agent that deals in your kind of book. For example, if the agent specializes in technology books sending a query for a fiction book probably won't get a positive response.
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  • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
    Thanks for all your help Dennis!

    I'll definitely be following up on these leads here. I'd love to have this book published, and have all my friends here at the forum have it, and not know it was me who wrote it! Bwahahha!

    Good moods are contagious everyone, spread them around.

    -Sean
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    Simple Mission Statement "Under the Radar and Over the Top!"
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    Thoughts of a 22 Year Old Marketer

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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Head over here:

    www.absolutewrite.com

    You may even see me on there now and again.
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Head over here:

      www.absolutewrite.com

      You may even see me on there now and again.
      I had no clue you were a established writer my good sir!

      Or maybe I did, and I'd just forgotten.

      Either way, thank you for the resource!

      -Sean
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      Simple Mission Statement "Under the Radar and Over the Top!"
      Sean's Guide To The Forum
      Thoughts of a 22 Year Old Marketer

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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi,

        Someone might want to let them know over at absolutewrite.com that the animated snowfall on the website slows my laptop down so much that it fails.

        I don't know for sure if it's a problem with my laptop (and hence I'm the only person who would experience the problem), but I doubt it.
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        Roger Davis

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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Sheesh Caliban, you could have warned me there was a blizzard going on over there. It's below zero here and my office window overlooks a 4 foot snow drift, don't need no stinking blizzard on my screen!
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Sheesh Caliban, you could have warned me there was a blizzard going on over there.
      Didn't even notice. My bookmark goes straight to the forum, so I had to go visit the main page to see what you were talking about.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author ZhaoAnXin
    Another thing you might think about (I'm writing this as conjecture or theory, not from personal experience):

    Write a book or write the book that you want to get picked up by a publisher, build as big of a list as you can, and then promote it to that list at a good price.

    That way - if you want to approach a larger publisher, at least you can show that it's commercially viable, and you can show them your conversion metrics, etc. Like - I had 1,000 people on my mailing list and 200 people ordered my book.

    I self publish my own stuff but I have no idea about the "big" publishing industry, but that would be a tactic I would try and use if I were trying to get it picked up.

    Another thing which works that I actually DO have experience with is building up a big list, publishing the books myself (I usually go for a pro-level distribution package so it's available at most big and even indy retailers), and give the people on my list a PDF version and some extra material for free - then ask them to write a review on amazon.com . . .

    If people will do that, then I offer some more of the best free stuff I can come up with, and mail the list the ISBN number, and relevant details and which retail outlets can order it (barnes & noble, borders, whatever) and after I've loaded cool stuff on them I ask them to do me a favor and make 1 phone call to 1 local bookstore and ask them to carry that book.

    This has worked out REALLY well for me personally. The people get the free PDF and a pretty high percent end up buying the hard copy book anyway because I price it nearly at cost or with zero markup and let them know that I'm doing that as a favor to them because I believe in the book/project/whatever.

    I also put marketing material in my loss leader/no profit books. For example I have about 20 books which I don't make ANY profit off of, but each of them has a full page, professionally written sales letter in the back promoting my membership program.

    In my autoresponder sequence I offer a new, high quality book at no profit almost once a week. Usually stuff that's available elsewhere but not under copyright, but undercut the entire market so that I can get a physical sales letter in people hand, a book with my photo on it in their hand, engineer some reciprocity, etc.

    Then I just ask. Please call your local borders or barnes & noble and ask them to carry this book (or one of my other "for profit" books) if you appreciate the hookup.

    It's a win-win-win scenario I think. The people on the list get books they want to buy anyway for lower costs than the market has available, I get increased branding, a sales physical sales letter in the book, and some of them (not a lot but some) will return the favor and ask for my money makers to be ordered by their local bookstore.

    Mainly I make money on my monthly membership program, and try not to get greedy with the books, etc. and just run those as loss leaders.

    That's just a random unsolicited suggestion, but - as far as what you're asking about - I would try to self publish initially, build a big list, price it as affordably as you can (for the first x amount of buyers, etc.) and then you have concrete data to take to publishers about how well your book converts with people who haven't even seen or held a physical copy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    ZhaoAnXin made several good suggestions. When I mentioned that a literary agent could be invaluable in telling you how to prepare, one of the things I was alluding to was they'll want you to tell the publisher how you plan on promoting the book.

    It's not as glamorous as most people think, for traditional publishers you have to work at promoting your book. I really like the idea ZhaoAnXin offered about giving a free PDF copy to your readers and having them review it on Amazon. I didn't do that, but I can't help but wondering what would have happened if I had.
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  • Profile picture of the author StaffPartyTrivia
    I have sold 4 screenplays since 2006.

    1 Drama - Major
    2 Comedy - One Major, One Large Indy
    1 Thriller - Small Indy

    Whe I first began, there was not a literary agent who would touch me
    because I was not a "writer". I was a person who had written a script.
    Generally, you will find the same barriers as a novelist, probably.

    But you will also find the same evaluation criteria for books, I would guess,
    as you do for film.

    Having said that, if you evaluate your own book with the short guide above
    that will save you a lot of heatache because each place will only read it once. lol

    Make it a KILLER before you send it.

    Don't let your friends read it. They'll say "Ya, it's good"
    They dont want you to succeed and also don't have the skills to
    evaluate the book for commercial success.

    There are so-called professional "readers" who will provide service
    for $75 - $500 ...but if they don' work for THE company you want
    to have buy your book, they don't know what they are looking for!

    Please seek out forums with other authors and let them read you book

    BUT

    first JOIN the writers guild and DEPOSIT your book in pdf format
    ( Cost about $50 - you can also do it as a non-member but most publishers
    won't look at you without being a member - they won't tell you that but you
    are more diffucult to promote as a non-member and lack the wga internat advantages)
    Writers Guild of America, West
    so that you have protection. MOST agents and publishers will
    not actually accept your work without that reg number.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sissy76
      A Writers Guild is an essential membership, you'll get excellent advice from those in the know.

      We have a few of these kinds of organisations in Australia, most of them have details for literary agents & the best way to establish contact.

      We also have the Australian Publisher's Association (APA), which publishes an annual directory of all publishers and agents in Australia & New Zealand, with their publishing specialisations, submission guidelines & contact personnel listed. I'm sure there would be an equivalent publication and/or organisation in your country, your Writers Guild will know.

      You can also look into professional manuscript assessment service providers (many of whom have been literary agents). It will cost you, but will give you a good basis for your query letter to an agent. You can also submit their assessment with your query letter or proposal to an agent or publisher. Make sure that they are a well know manuscript assessor, ask who they've worked with & then contact those writers for verification. Most editors at any publishing house will know of reputable manuscript assessors, contact the editorial department of a publishing house which publishes your genre & ask if they work with anyone in particular.

      Another way to meet agents is at writers festivals and book launches. You never know who you may meet at the bar or in a seminar. They're always on the lookout for talent, but do get bombarded by writers at these events, so don't take any rejection personally.

      Book Fairs are also great places to meet agents. They're out in force trying to sell their clients work to publishers & publishers are on the lookout for "the next big thing". The big ones are the London & Frankfurt Book Fairs, the LA one's pretty big too. These are MASSIVE events, it's very easy to get lost, but you can certainly meet the right people there if you're lucky, they're always busy.

      Another strategy is self-publishing, selling as many copies as you can and setting up meetings with agents and/or publishers at a Book Fair to try & get a publishing deal. You're less of a risk to them if you've actually made some sales & have started establishing yourself in the market. You don't have to wait for a Book Fair though, if you have a decent number of sales (no less than 1000) under your belt, you can contact them directly for a meeting.

      Hope that helps!

      Cheers,
      Sissy
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      • Profile picture of the author DeePower
        Sorry I didn't get to this thread sooner.

        There's a lot of good advice in this thread and some that is a little off the mark.

        I've written a book about the publishing industry that was sold to a mid size house and two business books that have been published by a major New York house. The advances were five figures not including the decimal point. I've also self published and have a few e-books out there.

        My writing partner and I have interviewed or surveyed hundreds of literary agents and editors. A lot of that information is at our website How to get a book published Authors Brian Hill and Dee Power It's free. There are extensive interviews with agents and editors there as well.

        Most publishers and literary agents require that a novel (fiction) be completed. The exception is for a more than one book contract. Obviously the second or third books haven't been written yet. Not many first time authors get a multiple book contract.

        The logic is that while a writer may start off gangbusters in the first few chapters the book may bog down in the middle, change direction, change genres, or just have an unsatisfactory end.

        Is a literary agent a requirement for publication? No. But -- and it's a big BUT -- the odds of publication increase with an agent. They know what house is interested in what kind of manuscript, what's hot and what's passe. The publishing industry is about 18 months ahead of what's being published right now. Agents also know what is standard in a contract, what can be deleted and what should be added. They negotiate the contract as well. For example: any advances for foreign publication should be paid to the author and not applied to the advance earn out.

        Find out more about literary agents, book publishing, and editors here.

        Any questions? I'll do my best to answer.

        Dee
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        • Profile picture of the author DeePower
          To answer the first three questions

          Should I send out my hard copy to these companies and ask to be published?

          No. First step is to find out what publishers publish your kind of book. Go to amazon.com and start looking at titles that are similar to yours. Make a list of the publishers. Go online and get the addresses of the publishers.

          You now need to find a specific editor at the publisher to contact.

          Here's a decent resource:

          Jeff Herman's Guide to Book Publishers, Editors,...Jeff Herman's Guide to Book Publishers, Editors,...

          and here's another:
          2010 Writer's Market Deluxe (Writer's Market...2010 Writer's Market Deluxe (Writer's Market... by http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Lee-Brewer/e/B002GO21SC/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1263487003&sr=1-1 (Paperback - Jun 29, 2009) - Deluxe Edition

          Or - and this is what I would recommend.

          Join Publishers Marketplace it's $20 a month. Search their database of deals for books in the same genre as yours. In nearly every case the agent who represented the book, their email addy, the house who bought the book, the acquisition editor at that house who made the deal and their email addy is included.

          Don't send the manuscript. Send a query letter and a one page synopsis. The synopsis does not have to give away the ending.

          OR should I call them first and see if they'd be interested in publishing me?

          No. It's a waste of your time to call.

          And for that matter, how should I go about finding a company to publish me?

          See step 1.

          Dee
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  • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
    Here's a neat little blog I enjoy reading:

    Query Shark

    This agent rips apart novel queries in her free time. Great fun to read, and quite educational too.

    Cheers,
    Becky
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      "The Novel" by James Michener is a very interesting companion to have on your journey.

      Martin
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