Would You Be Willing to Pay $20+ for an Article? (Writer's competition added!)

[Paul Myers]

Bill,

I put your piece into my article spinner and I just got an email from the Maytag repair guy telling me to "knock it off".

One word...

splorf!


Paul

[GeorgR.]

some of these "writers" DO NOT know how to write.

and some do, even for less
Although its hard to find them. And $20/article would be out of the question for me. Different story if you only have 1 site and need super, great quality content and you are fine with that one site and can pay $20 per article. But if you need 50-100-500ish articles per week...who should pay this?

As from the writer's perspective: A good (good!) average 400 words "put on ezine" article could be written in 15-20 mins. Even with "only" $4/article...this is a better pay per hour than MOST average people in the states make in retail, restaurants or MANY other jobs. And many of those people are in countries where $12-$16/hour is a LOT of money. So from that point of view i dont feel bad paying "only" $4 per article

[Jared Alberghini]

Paul,

I hate to tell you this, but I liked KJ's story better.

Jared

[Nick Brighton]

Targeting the "real" players in online business is how you get paid $100 or more per article. Whilst everyone else is writing for $5 scraps, there are a silent bunch making $100's per day writing quality content.

The biggest fallacy of all, is that "marketers" think that $5 articles have purpose and value. It might "fill" a blog or get a backlink, but ultimately, it clogs the web with rehashed trash.

Google, Article Directories and ultimately web users, are all becoming aware of this, and trashy content is starting to get pushed down the visibility ladder online.

People who pay $150 per article are doing so because they know that article will get traction, natural backlinks, might even go viral...

...and trust me, when you're sailing on a boat made of gold in a sea full of turds, the lifeguard will spot you and save your butt.

[Rachel Goodchild]

agreed Nick
I think that I'd rather write an article that has a whole pile of my love and thoughts wrapped into it than piles of crapola that is just crowding up the googlewaves.
I have an hourly rate in my head- if you pay that per article you get alot more work into it that if you pay less. That's how it should be too. I get upwards of fifty cents to a dollar a word for non IM clients, and I take far more time- because they've paid for it.
If you want quality and consistency you need to pay for quality and consistency.

[claywalsh]

I would not pay $20+,

There are good article writers (who speak english and write unique content) who do $5 articles

[Bev Clement]

Paul, not promoting anything. Just a short article based on personal experience.

Finally, the day arrived. We drove off to the store to buy my own computer; we had the specification for it, now to see if it was in stock. They did, and it was loaded into the car, and we set off for home.

Everything was unpacked and soon the computer was assembled, and we hit the power button. The noise was wonderful, as it showed everything was in working order.

Now for many people, they would just start to use it, but being married to an IT person, Rob had other ideas. He made backups of the software, he checked everything first before I was let loose on it.

Check this … check that … c’mon you can’t be serious, how many more checks are needed? Yes, I know, it’s important, but we women aren’t known for our patience … OK! I’m not known for my patience.

“Coffee, Rob” I shout. “Yes, please. It won’t be long before you can use the computer.”

The hours pass by, and finally I hear the magical words, “It’s ready.” But, I knew there had to be a “But.”

“Don’t forget, your computer is important, but if something happens, you can replace it, but if the data is lost, then what will you do?” asks Rob.

“I know, I know, remember I put in place the backup system for the company in Bath.”

Yes, it is easy to know something, but to do it yourself is another story.

This machine would be used when I finally put my business online. It was a good buy, but a disaster waiting to happen if something went wrong.

Rob knew from experience if a company loses it data and can’t recover it within a month; they would normally lose their business. I knew this, I’ve heard it, and I’ve written about it.

Backup and using an UPS was the norm in our home. We understood our computer wasn’t the most important part of our business. If the computer died, then we had our backup which would get our business running within hours of buying a new computer.

Rob kept saying, “Too many people are focused on their computer because they see it as their main assets, but they forget what life would be if they lost their computer even for a day.”
Rob asked, “What would happen if you didn’t have your computer for a day? How many tasks do you do daily using your computer? Email; passwords; research material; software; forums; surfing the web; PayPal. How many of these jobs could you do without a computer? The answer ... nothing; zero; zilch. Imagine for a moment a day without your computer.

I can remember the day as clearly as many important days. I came back from the stores, put my shopping away, went into my office, and plugged in my computer … a flash and a very large bang. It sounded like it came from my computer … now a fried computer. It was roasted, and this was my view … a female who knows nothing about electronics.

Quickly, I grabbed the phone and called Rob at his office, “My computer; it doesn’t work, it is dead.” Yes, I know, not a great help. I told him about the flash, told him about the bang.

Rob said, “Take it slowly, try and plug in something else into the socket.” I did, it worked, so the electric socket was fine.

I remembered we had taken out insurance from the company we bought the computer from, and they would check the computer for me.

I took it to the store, and they said they should be able to get some of the information off the hard disk. I wasn’t too bothered about that as we had all the software disk and backups we had taken.

Daily, I waited for the phone to ring. Finally, they called to say the computer was dead, but they had retrieved all the data on the machine. It was a glorious day, because it meant I didn’t have to spend hours restoring from my backup.

Since then, we have always treated our data with even more respect than before. The computer is just a box which houses the data, and if you remember this, then you would treat your data with the respect it deserves.

As Rob said, “Anybody who is serious about using a computer in their business should treat it as gold.” Spending money on important assets is part of running a business. But, what if you use your computer for fun only, imagine if you lost all those family photos, videos, emails because you forgot to back up your computer.

A computer can be replaced, but the data on it, can be lost in seconds if you don’t backup. Use a UPS, rotate your backups, do everything possible to protect not only your computer but your data. How much is the data worth to you? Mine is … Priceless.

[claywalsh]

Wow $1 or more per word? Thats amazing pay!

[fitz10]

It is really good pay to get $1 a word, BUT it is extremely hard to get freelance gigs that pay that much. A lot of magazines you see at a typical news stand-- Newsweek, Seventeen, People, etc. are paying that much or more for feature writers. I'm sure you can figure out that magazines with that type of popularity are next to impossible to get into.

[Rachel Goodchild]

and...you'd be surprised who doesn't pay much in some of those high glossies.
Sometimes the best pay I've got is from some weird dodgy looking trade magazine, whereas I've practically had to sell my first born to be printed in a high selling glossy.
You have to look at how long it takes to to write each one- not just the per word rate.

[fitz10]

Nice points Rachel. Anyone interested in pursuing offline writing should definitely take a look at some writing for trade magazines. Those can be quite lucrative and they tend not to less competitive than mainstream magazines.

[DaveHughes]

Okay, this is more than a bit rough (and unfortunately a "one-take wonder"; I'm playing "Mr. Mom" tonight, and don't exactly have a surplus of time), but here's my shot...couldn't pass it up.

It's weak in a lot of places, but I didn't have time to do a re-write. Sigh.

You've got to give me more warning on these pop tests, Paul!

__________________________________________________ _____

Beep...

How do I deal with this?

Beep...

Several years ago, we finally transitioned to paperless record-keeping at our house. My wife was against it, and kept saying how she “didn't trust those things” as she pointed at the computer.

I always laughed at her. “Computers are as secure as anything,” I would say. Eventually, she came around and realized I was right.

Beep...

She was gone to the gym to work out; I was trying to get some work done in our home office. The bills don't pay themselves. I was interrupted by the nagging sound of the doorbell.

Beep...

“Mr. Johnson? My name is Bobby, and I'm...” he asked when I opened the door.

“No,” I interrupted curtly. “You've got the wrong house.”

“Oh, I'm sorry. I was sent out to install some data protection safeguards for Mr. Johnson, and this is the address I have.”

“Hate it for you, but my name's not Johnson. Now, if you'll excuse me...” I said as I started closing the door.

“I'm sorry to impose, but could you help me out?” he said quickly.

“What?”

“I need to get this straightened out; I'm sure it's just a mix-up. I need to call back to the office, but my cell phone isn't getting any signal out here.”

Beep...

“Uhhhh...sure, but make it quick.” I swung the door back open and escorted him to the phone in my home office, where he looked over at my desk as he dialed the phone.

“Nice computer, sir. What safeguards do you have in place, if you don't mind me asking?”

“Safeguards? What the devil are you talking about?”

“Data backups, surge protection, and- oh, I'm sorry sir, hold on. Yes, Sally? Could you go to my desk and find Mr. Johnson's address, please?

I tried to get something done on the computer, but Bobby seemed to take the wait for his secretary's return as an opportunity to continue talking.

“I notice you don't have an uninterruptible power supply for your computer, sir. It protects your computer from power fluctuations, and even serves as a battery backup to keep your computer powered for a brief time until the power comes back on.”

He was starting to get my attention. “Really? I've got a power strip on everything. That gives me surge protection, doesn't it?”

“Not much, and definitely not enough. And with a UPS, you can plug your computer, your modem, even your cell phone into it, and it'll keep things powered long enough for you to save your data and power down before it starts beeping.”

Beep...

“Speaking of that,” Bobby continued, “What data backup method are you using?”

“What do you mean? It's always there. The last time my computer went out, they just took the hard drive out of the old one and put it in the new one, and there was my data, just like always.”

“No sir; a power spike through the wall outlet, or even just a severe fault in your hard drive, and your data would be gone forever. A portable hard drive with all of your most important information on it would prevent that.”

“That sounds like a lot of trouble.”

“No sir, not at all. You can have backups to a portable hard drive automated with software; you won't have to do anything but set it up. Of course, I do mine manually, so that I can unplug the portable drive after every backup and store it safely, but if you think you won't remember, an automated system is better than no backup at all. But you really need more than one backup...perhaps a flash drive with your data on it, and copies of your most important information on CD or DVD.”

“Huh. And how often would I have to do THAT?”

“It depends on how often your data changes; probably at least every couple of weeks, and then store an offsite backup someplace else, like a friend or relative's house.”

“Give someone else all of my personal information? Not likely; I've heard about people getting your information and stealing your identity; giving someone a copy of my hard drive sounds like a bad idea. I could just keep them here.”

“If your house were to burn down or flood, they would be lost along with your computer. With backups off-site, even after a small tragedy like a leaky roof or burst pipe that ruins your computer wouldn't destroy all your records and date; you could just buy a new computer, install your information from your off-site backups and you'd have your data with almost no interruption. If you don't like the idea of storing them at a friend's house, you could always store your off-site backups in a safety deposit box, sir; that way, you- yes, Sally, I'm here.”

I did some thinking while he was talking with his secretary. He had a point. I had never thought about how easy it would be to lose all of our records. He said “Thanks, Sally. I'm headed there now,” and placed the phone back into its recharger. He looked back at me and said “Thank you for helping me, sir; I reversed the numbers in the address; I'm at the wrong end of your road.”

“No, no...I'm glad you made the mistake. How much would it cost to put those safeguards in place?”

“Around $500 or so.” He saw the grimace I made and said “Well, sir; let me ask you this; if you lost everything you have stored in that computer, and the only way to get it back would cost that much, would you mind if they rang that amount on the cash register?”

Beep...

“Immediately. That computer has our computer records, health records, bills, financial statements...I would have to!”

“Then why not pay that much to make sure you don't lose it?

I stared at him for a second and then grinned. “You've sold me, Bobby. When could you come back and set that type of system up for me?”

“Well, I'll be through setting things up at Mr. Johnson's in less than an hour, so we could-” He was interrupted by a loud crash outside, and a flickering of the lights before the power went out, followed by a car horn.

Beep...

We looked at each other, and then headed for the door to see if we could tell what had caused it.

There was my wife's car, sitting under the power pole she had accidentally swiped; the pole lay across the hood.

She wasn't moving.

Beep...

And now, here I sit at her bedside, holding her hand while the heart monitor lets me know everything is okay with every beep. They think she'll be okay, but they're not sure yet; they need information on her history. The power surge from her accident fried my hard drive; all of our records are gone.

Beep...

Medical history, insurance information, financial information...it's all gone. I even had a hassle getting her registered at the hospital. I don't need this right now; I've got to concentrate on her.

Beep...

While I wait for my insurance agent, our family doctor and the bank to get our records together and get them to us here at the hospital, all I can think is...

Beep...

Why didn't anyone tell me about UPS and data backups a week ago? Why?

Beep...

Why?

Beep...

WHY!?!

[Paul Myers]

Dave,

That's a powerful spin. And a hell of a first pass!


Paul

[Tina Golden]

I know that I don't have a prayer of coming close to Paul's work. The man has a way of making you FEEL things that I can only strive for.

But, to be honest, I don't have to compete in Paul's league to still command a decent price. This is a man who could easily surpass the $1 per word mark and still be giving the buyer a hell of a bargain.

Others in this thread did very well in coming up with a twist although I'd have to say that Dave came the closest in bringing home the pain of that situation.

I know that my work provides a value beyond what I charge and that's really all I need to know.

As Paul stated and Bev has repeatedly stated, you need to go beyond this little corner of the world to find the market that is willing to pay your rates. I've had people tell me that my rates are too high and others that tell me I'm charging too little.

Perception is everything.

Tina

[ocon9316]

Paul, I'm not going to pretend that this is even close to yours, but I figured what the heck so I whipped this bad-boy up. Took me about 20 minutes. It has been awhile since I've really had someone critique my work though so this could be a useful exercise.


*******************************************

“Yeah, ok Keith. We’ll go get food as soon as I finish this lab report. Jesus man, college isn’t so easy for those of us in a real major and not ‘The Philosophy of the Simpsons.’”

“Haha, shutup dude; that was a class. The major is ‘Golden Age Philosophy for Modern Day,’” he said, flashing a goofy, self-deprecating smile.

“Right, right. How foolish of me. Seriously though man, I just need to finish up this report on the synthesis of azo dyes for Organic Chem. Then we will eat. I’m almost done and this crap has taken me weeks, so if you’d give me just another ten minutes of silence I’ll buy your Big Mac.”

“Ok, ok. Ten minutes.” Keith opened the door to our dorm room. “Synthesis of azo dyes…God you’re a nerd.” He closed the door behind him.

I continued with my report, relieved to be nearing the end of a month long project, from the pre-lab lecture to two weeks of grueling lab work collecting data to the write-up. I’d been working on writing the report itself for a solid two days. Professor Kumler was a real stickler on lab reports; the rumor was that in his 22 years of teaching the lab, no one had ever gotten a perfect score on a lab report. I was determined to change that.

Just as I was hitting the save button on my masterpiece, Keith came stumbling back into the room, yanking up his sagging jeans behind him.

“Um, today! Its ten o’clock at night and I haven’t eaten since six! I’m hunggrrryyy. If you don’t stop playing with your Lazlo dyes and drive me to Mickey D’s, I’m sorry, but I’ll be forced to find a new chauffeur. Ooh, maybe a female chauffeur!”

“Azo dyes,” I laughed, hitting the save button again. “And I’m ready. Let’s go.”

**************************

As I pulled into the student parking lot, returning from our gourmet fast-food feast, I was immediately struck by the darkness.

“Sweet!! Power outage! Let’s go creep around one of the freshman girls’ dorms!!” Clearly, Keith was a born philosopher.

“Funny. But I’m exhausted. I’m gonna go lay down and wait for the power to come back on.”

“Why? So you’ll have light to read your ‘biochemical synthetic molecular reactions’ books by?” He said the scientific terms in his best “nerd voice.” A voice that I was quickly growing tired of.

“Yeah, something like that.”

As we walked into the main entrance of the dorm, the power suddenly kicked back on.

“Awright buddy!” Keith said, clapping me on the back. “Now you can play with your Rubik’s Cube!”

I had to laugh.

Once we got to our room I plopped down on the bed, ready for sleep after a long day of schoolwork. Five minutes later, I was fast asleep.

“Uhh, buddy. Hey. ERIC!” Keith shook me out of my sleep. “Um hey can I use your computer? Joey just told me about this great new website that has videos of kids falling off their bikes!!”

“Jesus Keith, yeah that’s fine. You really need to get your own computer.” I shrugged off the bedspread and got up. “I guess I might as well check my email now that I’m awake.” I sighed.

“You’ve only been asleep twenty minutes dude, don’t act like I shook you out of hibernation.”

I headed over to my computer and hit the power button, rubbing my eyes.
Nothing happened. I hit the power button again and nothing.

“Um…what the hell?” I began to feel panic slowly creeping into my stomach. Not only was this computer a 2500 dollar machine that was only 3 months old, but the report I had worked so hard on for the past few weeks was on there, and wasn’t saved anywhere else!

“Oh no dude. The power outage must have fried your business.”

“What do you mean?” I asked, afraid to hear the answer.

Keith went into the intricacies of power surges and outages and the havoc they can wreak on electronics.

“Yeah, but I have a surge protector.”

“For being a nerd, you really are pretty dumb.” Keith said. “Those things don’t do diddly. I can’t believe you don’t have a UPS!”

“What’s a UPS?”

“Uninterruptable power supply. It protects your computer like a surge protector is supposed to and it acts as a backup battery when the power goes out. It is really the only thing that can protect your data from Mother Nature.”

“Well, I don’t have a UPS and my report is on there and I’m totally screwed now!” I was about to start sobbing.

“Relax dude, I might be able to fix this bad Jesse yet.” Keith said with a confident grin.

“I will do anything if you do, Keith.”

“Ok, now it is your turn to leave the room. Give me like 30 minutes and I’ll see what I can do. Go grab Joey and tell him I need his laptop.”

“Ok.” I hurried off like a fireman racing into a burning house to get Joey.

After thirty-five panic filled minutes, Keith finally called me back into the room. I don’t know what he did, I don’t know how in the world he did it, but when I walked back into the room he had the computer up and running, with Queen playing out of the speakers. He was dancing like a goofball to “Don’t Stop Me Now” and singing his own parody lyrics about what a genius he is.

I ran to the machine and looked for my report. There it was, carefully filed under “Important Chem Stuff – DON’T DELETE!” I looked back at Keith, a huge smile beginning to form on my face. He was shaking his bottom at me and singing “that’s what they call me mister fix it right!” to the Queen song.

I hugged him. I couldn’t help it. He had just saved my butt.

“Whoa, ok. Settle down dude. No need to get all Lifetime Channel on me. Tomorrow we’ll go to the campus bookstore and I’ll show you the best UPS to get and some other backup tools that you really need so this doesn’t happen again. Stuff like backup DVDs, an external hard drive and a USB thumb-drive. Plus, you can’t really call yourself a true nerd unless you have a full arsenal of geeky computer peripherals.”

“Keith, I can’t thank you enough. You just saved my whole semester. There is no way Dr. Kumler would buy the ‘my computer crashed’ excuse….even if it is true.”

“I know, I know. I rule.” Keith smiled. “Not bad for a Philosophy major, huh?”

“You should switch to Computer Science or something, you’re brilliant with this stuff!” I said.

“Computer science? Forget that. That sounds like a lot of work and would cut into my sleeping, eating, and sitting around time. Not to mention my 'getting so drunk on the weekends that I can’t stand' time.”

He may have zero ambition or aspirations and be one lazy kid, but in my eyes Keith is a genius. On that particular night, he was also my hero.

[superdad220]

I think basing the buying decision on price is wrong. It is a combination of price and quality that matter

[Guy G.]

Hi,

I'm part of a blogging team working on one site, so I could only speak for one vote out of four.

In the future we will be working on other sites and will need to outsource our writing so that we'll have time for the more important things.

I think I'd pay $1,000 for an article so long as it could prove to be a valuable investment. What I mean is, if that article brought in so much sales, traffic etc. that my revenue as a result of posting it was well over the $1000, then yes, I'd pay. I think the writer would also have to be responsible for uploading the article to various social bookmarking sites as well as spinning it for different article directories if I was going to pay this price.

All in all, I think what I'm saying, is that if you could provide enough proof for the value of a professionally written article, then people shouldn't have any problem paying upwards of $20-$50. You just have to show them that their return will far outweigh the investment

Cheers

[DaveHughes]

Originally Posted by Guy G.

In the future we will be working on other sites and will need to outsource our writing so that we'll have time for the more important things.

And this is part of the reason for "The Great Price Divide"...quite a few folks in the IM world put "content" near or at the bottom of the importance list.

Not saying you do, Guy, and I understand your point, but I believe the point that Paul, Bev et al were trying to make is that in the IM world, no one seems to think that the quality of the writing is as important as the other parts of their business...it's "quantity over quality".

In the direct mail world, it's not unusual for people to pay $4,000 and up for a quality sales letter that converts well. Why? Because the money it will bring in is a MUCH bigger amount.

Originally Posted by Guy G.

I think the writer would also have to be responsible for uploading the article to various social bookmarking sites as well as spinning it for different article directories if I was going to pay this price.

This is another interesting point; if someone can write an article for $1,000 that will bring in $10,000 in sales, why would they need to provide additional services? Only with writers (and mainly online) does this attitude prevail. Trust me; I can make more spending that time writing for someone else.

Do you ask your lawn care guy to vaccuum the house while he's there, for the same fee? Do you require that a local artist come over and touch up the walls in your den if you buy their painting? Next time you get a TV repaired, ask the repairman if he'll organize your DVD collection for the same price. He won't, because you're paying for their specific talents and abilities. Period.

Trust me; those direct response mail clients don't require you to stuff the envelopes before they'll pay that amount, because it doesn't matter how pretty their envelope and paper stock is (or how well-designed their website is)...it's the content that drives customers to take action. PERIOD. There are some REALLY crappy-looking websites that convert very well; it's not because of the header graphic.

If you want copy or articles of a high quality level, you have to PAY at a high level; this is why a brand-new Masarati costs a ton of money, but a knock-off that looks almost exactly like it costs a fraction of the same amount. You're paying for quality.

I'm not knocking you at ALL, Guy, so please don't take this as an attack, because it's certainly not meant to be...yours is the prevelant attitude online toward writers. For example...this thread. (See? You're immediately light-years ahead of THAT guy.)

Higher quality will give you higher results. If that weren't the case, no one would pay the higher amounts that are paid elsewhere. Unfortunately (as Paul said), most folks hiring writers in the IM world wouldn't know effective writing if it walked up and bit them on the ass. (Again, not necessarily you, Guy...I have no idea if you can judge writing ability, although I would tend to think that you can, judging from your post.)

[GeorgR.]

In the IM world, no one seems to think that the quality of the writing is as important as the other parts of their business...it's "quantity over quality".

Who says that? Every webmaster/site owner will agree that nothing is better than good, valuable and helpful content. But i STILL dont need to shell out $1000 to go there.

I also highly disagree with your Maserati comparison, Maserati might VERY WELL make quality cars - but in reality what people often pay for is actually status and branding - it has NOTHING to do with quality.

As for a writer's skill and legitimation to charge a lot of money, and in regards to "...if the $1000 article brings me traffic". Example:

Bev and the others might very well be great writers, but there is more to it, namely SEO. If i were an "accredited" writer with the best and most exciting, sales-boosting writing style i still could have no idea about SEO whatsoever. SEO and keyword research for your typical "internet article" might be rather what will decide how much traffic you will getting, and NOT the "quality" of your article.

The worst which can happen that your "super quality" article is well researched and literally explodes of the best information - but it has failed in terms of generated traffic since it didnt take ANY SEO knowledge into account. Noone would find that article on Google. (Assuming that you would not put an article on an already WELL known and visited blog, THEN you dont need care about SEO.)

Just saying there is more to it.

[DaveHughes]

A couple of good points, George, especially on the Masarati analogy; branding and status do have a LOT to do with that type of purchase, if not the vast majority of the reasoning. You're exactly right; my fault on that one completely.

And yes, SEO determines the amount of traffic you get from an article; the quality of the article determines what that traffic does. Getting them there is very important, but so is getting them to take action when they DO get there, even if it's just to click on the link in your resource box at an article directory.

You can SEO a million hits a day to an article or website; if what they see when they get there doesn't prompt them to take action, who cares?

And no, no one is going to pay $1000 per article for internet marketing; however, no one should expect to get the best results from $1 per 100 words, either, which is an amount I see thrown about quite a bit. Again, the prevalent attitude is that "Content is king!...right after SEO, and site design..." and on and on.

The original point was that IM is NOT the place to look for decent pay for writing ability, which you have just backed up beautifully. To quote Paul from earlier in the thread:

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

You need to look at the market. If all someone wants is keyword-fodder, there's little sense in paying the rates asked by a skilled writer. It's not a smart business move. Nothing wrong with that decision.

The thing you need to keep in mind is that, just as most of the alleged "writers" who sell articles here suck at writing, most of the buyers here can't really "read." They don't know enough about writing to tell the difference between word salad and skillfully crafted prose. I've seen people here swear that so-and-so produces top quality content, only to look at it and wonder if they've ever read anything more advanced than "Fun with Dick and Jane."

Yes, that comment will irritate some of the members. That doesn't make it any less true. This is not the proper market for a disciplined and talented wordsmith.

[Tinkerbell]

The blog was live, had been for over a month now.

My ten requisite articles were in place with ninety more
showing up over time. I'd set them to auto-post every other
day.

I'd even paid for traffic.

$150 worth.

But I hadn't made a single sale.

What was I doing wrong?

I found out when "she" came in.

....

It took less than ten minutes for her to reduce my hopes of
being able to take her to Maui (she didn't know that was my
plan) from excited and eager to completely non-existent.

The worst part? She was right.

But...let me back up a bit.

I'd been looking into internet marketing for a while and had
decided to go the route of using articles to drive traffic to
a sales page from my blog.

I started out with $700 to fund this endeavor, my "start-up"
stash.

Since I'm not much of a writer, I'd outsourced the articles -
yes, the very essential pieces I needed to move visitors from
my blog to the money-making page, to an article writer online.

I'd heard so many times there was no need to try and be
perfect. Heard countless folks say it wasn't necessary to be
"really good" straight out of the gate - it just needed to be
"good enough" - so I paid a writer $5 a piece for 100
articles.

It took over a month to get them, but the minute they arrived,
I'd just skimmed them real quick and went to work getting
everything set up online, looking forward to the day I could
tell Jill to get a babysitter because we were going to Maui
for a week.

I could already imagine the look on her face.

I rushed to get it all online and start making sales. If I was
going to be able to take Jill to Maui, I needed to get the
blog populated in a hurry and start making money - fast.

I really should have read the articles first.

....

Actually, I should say I ought to have read the "entire"
article rather than just the titles.

Once "she" pointed that out, and I started to read what I
hadn't taken the time to look at before, I felt sick.

My excitement about the surprise I had planned bottomed out
and my enthusiasm for getting my fledgling affiliate marketing
business off the ground went from 100% to zip in 1.5 seconds.

My entire start-up effort hinged on those articles. I knew
that, but...What had I done?

I kept reading. One barely sensible, keyword stuffed, non-
human readable article after another.

I now knew why I hadn't made any sales. I'd been given search
engine fodder when what I needed was presell magic.

The articles I'd paid for were worthless...and "she" knew it.

One glance at the disappointment in her eyes was all it took.

My business attempt was a flat out failure, and I could see
that to her, at that moment, so was I.

I panicked.

When the panic subsided, I mustered up the courage to ask,
"What should I do?"

She shrugged. "Call Mary."

....

When Mary got there, she flipped through several of the
articles, barely glancing at each one before going to the
next, and said, "Doug, this won't work. You shouldn't even be
using this."

Before I could get out the words, "I know," she said, "Let's
see if any of it is salvagable. Why'd you go with cheap
articles, anyway?"

She started making notes on a notepad beside my laptop, and
since she didn't really seem to expect an answer (I guess she
figured there wasn't any reasonable one for that question) I
kept my mouth shut.

After a bit of skimming and writing on the notebook beside
her, she said, "The good news is, some of the titles are
workable."

"The bad news?" I asked.

"Everything else will have to be scrapped, your topic actually
researched and the articles written from scratch. How's your
research skills, kiddo?"

I could feel my face redden. "Uh, not real good."

She just shook her head, opened an internet browser window on
my laptop, and said, "This could take a while."

She visited a few sites online, asked several over-the-
shoulder questions about my site and my intentions for the
blog, the affiliate site I planned to drive traffic to, and
what my overall goal was with starting this thing to begin
with.

I told her my plan was to use articles to drive traffic with
my blog to my affiliate sales page. I wanted to raise enough
money to take Jill to Maui as a surprise for our anniversary.

After ten years of marriage, dealing with the kids and me
while working a full-time job with no time at all for rest, I
figured she deserved it.

I'd planned it months before - and two weeks later, I'd lost
my job. Our savings had been drained to pay the bills my
salary no longer paid.

So I'd turned to the internet with hopes of making some money
online.

Armed with $700 and an internet connection, I'd read up on
affiliate marketing a bit, grabbed a domain name and hosting,
and picked a product to promote.

Then I'd paid someone to write articles for me.

Mary digested it all and then she asked me one more question:
"So...you seriously thought to drive traffic with 'this'?"

Of course I did. My face got hot. "Yes."

She glanced back through the articles, and arched a brow. "oh
-kaaay..."

She started talking about how the articles I had now weren't
even written by a native English speaker.

I told her I hadn't made any sales. She wasn't surprised.

She said it was the articles. Said I probably would have made
money immediately if I'd paid $100 a piece for just five
articles from a professional writer than I'd have trying to
use these.

I remembered there were writers online who charged that and
more. I also remembered thinking paying that much for an
article was insane.

Now, I wasn't so sure.

Then, Mary dropped the bomb that really shocked me.

She said it looked like the outsourcer I'd hired online had
just turned around and outsourced the writing I paid her to do
to someone out of the country.

I'd paid her and she'd paid someone else a lot less to do the
work for her and pocketed the difference - something I could
have prevented had I asked the right questions before hiring
her.

Knowing it was my fault, that I had made it easy for the
writer to benefit from screwing me over made me sick to my
stomach all over again.

Mary scribbled a few more notes, grabbed my notebook and the
pen she'd been using, and said, "Come on. We're going to the
library."

I grabbed my coat, and as we were headed out the door, she
asked, "By the way, if you have to start all over with a new
writer, think you'll still have time to raise the money to
take Jill to Maui?"

The bleak look in my eyes was answer enough.

....

When we got to the library, Mary went to the stacks and
started pulling down books.

One glance at the pile of tomes she dropped onto the table
several minutes later assured me this wasn't going to be a
one-hour trip.

I took off my jacket and found a magazine to occupy myself
while she read.

Four hours later, we left the library and headed back to the
house.

....

Mary sat down with her notes at my laptop and kind of fell
into a trance.

I almost succumbed myself, listening to the hypnotic "click,
click, click" of her fingers on the keyboard while she typed.

It was another two hours before she finally gave a satisfied
sigh and pushed away from the desk.

"Okay, here's what I've done," she said. "First, I had a look
at the sales page of the product you're going to be driving
traffic to, to get a feel for the market you're targeting.

"If you don't know what the market wants, you aren't going to
be able to reach them with your words, your articles. So a bit
of preliminary market research was first.

"I also took note of what the product promises to do for those
who buy it. Benefits, you know. It helps if you can get your
reader to picture himself as owning those benefits in your
articles. Helps get her to click the link to the sales page.

"But looking at the sales page wasn't enough. That's why we
went to the library - for facts."

Those "facts" had taken her four hours to unearth. Not to
mention the time it had taken her to do the "market research"
she'd done - that I hadn't even been aware of.

I was beginning to understand why some writers felt justified
charging $50 to $100 or more per article.

"I've put together two articles - one that will appeal to your
female visitors, and another that will appeal to the males. Those
will do for starters. But you're going to need a few
more, to reach the on-the-fencers and the skepticals. Gotta
use a slightly different angle to get their attention.

She stood up and stretched. I could tell she was beat, but
still she said, "I will write those articles tomorrow, after
work, and send them to you through email."

I walked her to the door and thanked her for her help. Then I
went to my laptop and began the arduous task of removing all
the unusable articles from my blog.

Then, I posted up the two articles Mary had written.

I was out of money, so there would be no more driving traffic
via pay-per-click. I did the only other thing I knew to do. I
hit the forums with a link in my signature file.

Maybe, just maybe, it would work.

....

The next morning, I opened my email with reluctance. What I
saw there made my eyes light up, and my heart beat faster.

I'd made a sale!

A few hours later, I made another sale. And then another.

That evening, three more articles arrived in my inbox from
Mary, as promised.

I read them from start to finish, a grin on my face the entire
time.

Perfectly structured, no grammatical errors, and filled with
intriguing facts and fun information that my readers would
love - I knew this was the kind of articles I should have had
from the beginning.

But more than that, the articles weren't dreary textbook
drivel - you know - the kind of stuff you hated to read in
school?

They were brimming over with real personality, a quality I
knew would help my readers connect with what was being said.

To me, Mary was a "professional." Her research and writing
skills had saved my hide, and I knew it.

I added the articles to my blog, and went back to the forums
to chat, more excited now than ever.

....

Our trip to Maui was incredible - but more than that, it might
have been responsible for saving our marriage. While we were
gone, Jill told me she'd been thinking about separating for a
while...

But that's another story.

Jill and I arrived home from Maui only a few hours before Mary
called, stunned.

"Doug, I couldn't believe it! The check you sent...it's
$1,500! Do you really want me to cash this?"

I laughed.

Of course I wanted her to cash it, I told her. After all, it
was her skills as a writer that helped me earn it. Not to
mention the lesson I'd learned.

That was worth a whole lot more.

[Bjarne Eldhuset]

When I started working as a local newspaper journalist, one of the first things the boss made told me to do, was to read some local employment statistics and write an article.

So I read the statistics, and wrote an article.

A boring article.

Because I thought the statistics were really boring.

It took me a long time to write too.

Unsurprisingly, my boss thought the article was boring too, and told me to write a new article, and focus on what effects the statistics had on people, see if there were trends to be seen from the changes in the statistics, get prognosises from experts, interview real people and so on.

This became 2 pages of much more interesting content with a total of 5 articles in different sizes.

And the best part? It took less time to write, and was much more fun.

So what am I saying?

Well, just that the more you pay for an article, the higher the chance usually is of getting the kind of writer that can look beyond the numbers and gather information and present it in new and interesting ways.

None the less, I also agree with those saying an article can serve different purposes for a marketer, and that the price paid to a large extent reflects what the marketer is going to use the article for.

[Tinkerbell]

Hi Lincoln,

No worries. As Paul said, he wrote his article in the storytelling style to show how one could sell using stories. Yeah, I piggy-backed off his style (a lot), but if I were writing a "just the facts, Jack" article, it would look much different.

Actually, with a few days to stew over it, the one I wrote above would look much different, but I hurried. Just like the guy in my story. Should have known better, huh? lol.

Different markets need different styles and different angles. Why? Because all people are different, and that's what needs to be remembered. You're marketing, whether through ads or articles or whatever, to PEOPLE.

[Erica Leggett]

I would pay $20 for an article probably one time just to see if it's worth it. But I would surely have to be pulling in some serious dough.

[lisag]

I charge $40 per article and up. Those that understand the value of a well-researched article that holds them out as a subject matter expert don't blink an eye.

Those who think I'm too expensive don't hire me. Most people who hire me also hire less expensive writers for their every day "blow em out" articles. They come to me for the "special" articles.

I have four blog clients who buy 300 words per day each from me, five days per week. They pay .10 per word and they are very pleased with the quality of their blog articles.

There's a buyer for every seller, and plenty of work to go around at all price points.

[Damien Roche]

Yes I would, 2000 word article

Sadly, writing services on this level are worth almost nothing. As you know, can have a professional 400 word article written for $4-$5, maybe even less.

I wouldn't even consider it, it sounds utterly soul destroying. If I were a good writer based on the internet, I'd get into copywriting and high end content writing.

By the same token, as Lisa just pointed out - there's a buyer for every seller and a well researched, expertly written article is priceless.

[Paul Myers]

GeorgR said:

Bev and the others might very well be great writers, but there is more to it, namely SEO.

That assumes a significant function of the article is to get traffic or other SE benefits. Not everyone uses content that way. If you do, fine. I'm not saying that's a problem, as you'll note from my previous comments. I do suggest, however, that the overwhelming majority of the people I've seen who do that kind of work are not "writers" by any reasonable standard. They're keyword hacks. Entirely different skill set.

The thing to keep in mind is the desired result. A lot of people and companies get their traffic in ways that have little to do with the skills used by most of the "article writers" you'll find selling their wares for $1 or $3 an hour. They're interested in content that motivates an action after the visitor gets there, rather than just attracting clicks to the site.

Yes, the sets can be combined. That requires a bit more skill than just the sum of the two.

Consider how the better quality writing is used, and you'll see who'll pay for it. Content publications, both print and digital, need quality material if they're going to maintain and grow an audience. Magazines are the classic example.

Affiliate programs need solid content that can be for training or for use in pre-selling. A story piece like the one above is a powerful pre-selling tool, if it resonates with the reader.

Info-marketers need products. That keyword-stuffed crap ain't gonna cut it for anything with an actual price tag.

E-courses are pretty powerful tools, if they're done right. Very nearly none of them are.

Then there are the experts who know their subjects cold, but don't know how to write for a mass audience in an engaging way. A skilled writer can take a loose collection of good ideas and anecdotes and turn it into best-seller material.

For most of these things, your "SEO hacks" would be worse than useless. They'd be actively dangerous.

Every one of those project types can pay very well. Certainly far beyond what the majority of people who claim in marketing forums to be "professional writers" are likely to command.

Tina covered one of the most important differences when she said, "a way of making you FEEL things." The only problem is that most people think that's a problem. That it's somehow difficult. It isn't, really. You just need to empathize with the feelings of the people you're talking to.

In the story example I used, the formula was intended as a way to free up the writer's brain and let them focus on the individuals. I know people in both of those positions, so it was just a matter of giving them names and letting them talk.

You don't make people feel things. You talk to feelings they already have.

The way to do that is to talk to only one person.

Do that, and even writing on grammar and data backups can be interesting and engaging. Leave it out, and you might as well be spray painting a breeze for all the good you're going to do.


Paul

[GaryTwist]

[QUOTE=James Seward;1612820]Hi Warriors,

As some of you might now I am a professional writer.

Are you serious? It looks like you need to watch for typos before calling yourself a professional writer. I found an excellent ghost writer on elance for $5 articles, but she won't do much research. It just depends on what kind of articles you need.

[Oxbloom]

Hey Paul,

Thanks for prompting that exercise. As a newbie to the field who is still feeling his way through the swamp of what flies and what doesn't, I found the whole thing very instructive.

Let me say this: I'm an educated reader. Like most people competent to surf the Internet in search of meaningful contributions, I consider myself and my time to be worthwhile commodities. And much of what I encounter online is patently offensive to my intelligence.

Paul (again): thank you not only for prompting the exercise, but also for your "article" contribution. Yours was the only submission I could actually make it through from start to finish. I went in with no preconceptions, and by the time I finished, I was opening another tab to research data protection and backup. I can think of no higher praise I could lavish upon a piece of IM writing, and if I encountered that in the online jungle, I would happily click any relevant affiliate links.

Most of the "stories" suffered from one primary fault: they lacked focus. When it takes more than a few lines to get to the tension, you lose readership. Every time. Twenty lines of backstory might as well be a huge arrow pointing to the "click to another page" button.

Other submissions, even one from a professional writer, had grammar and usage errors that rendered the pieces practically unreadable.

$20 would be a stone-cold bargain for a piece that grabbed the reader's attention, got them to the bottom of the page, and coerced a relevant action from the reader (whether that action was to click an affiliate link, or simply to remember the site and come back again).

For anything less, even a $5 investment almost HAS to be doing more harm than good. For even a well-written article or story that doesn't either inform WELL, or else grip and coerce the reader, you might as well flush money down the crapper. I can only imagine how the average site is being crippled by the word salad that comes from even cheaper professionally-written fare.

Again, thanks. It's been instructive.

[Tina Golden]

Any article writer that tells me they write SEO friendly articles I pretty much don't talk to again. A writer's idea of SEO'ing an article usually means putting "keyword" in every line. That's a habit that, I've found, is very hard to break even when you tell them to pay no attention to keywords.

Lincoln - You can write SEO friendly articles that still read well and resonate with humans. Unfortunately, the "writers" you are referring to were taught by marketers to stuff their articles full of keywords - remember the days of people saying 10% keyword density was needed?

I really think that if you want articles for marketing purposes that you should look for a writer that has marketing knowledge and skills. Otherwise, you are likely miscommunicating because you are speaking two different languages.

Tina covered one of the most important differences when she said, "a way of making you FEEL things." The only problem is that most people think that's a problem. That it's somehow difficult. It isn't, really. You just need to empathize with the feelings of the people you're talking to.

Paul - I never thought I would say this but you are wrong. It isn't difficult for YOU. You do this so naturally and so well that you don't see it for the art that it is. If it was easy, more of us would have contracts with publishers. You have a facility for words that very few of us have. And that's okay as it gives us a model to follow and improve our skills.

Tina

[JonMills]

Originally Posted by James Seward

Hi Warriors,

As some of you might now I am a professional writer.

One thing that amazes me is that you can get an article done for $5 or less online. Now don't get me wrong (and please do not be ofended) but some of these "writers" DO NOT know how to write.

I focus on delivering value, professional writing. If I want to outsource graphic design I look for good designers. Now I do understand that some people need those $5 workers and others can afford to pay a little more.

For those who can afford it, would you be willing to pay, say, $20, $30, $50 for an article? And just out of curiosity, for those who don't have the money to invest, let's imagine you had: would you be willing to invest that for an article?

I am just trying to understand if everyone thinks $5 is good or there are people out there willing to give a little more to get a little bit more quality!

Best
James

Depends on how long the article is.

I would be willing to pay $20 for a 500 to 600 word article sure.

[Bev Clement]

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

Bev and the others might very well be great writers, but there is more to it, namely SEO. If i were an "accredited" writer with the best and most exciting, sales-boosting writing style i still could have no idea about SEO whatsoever. SEO and keyword research for your typical "internet article" might be rather what will decide how much traffic you will getting, and NOT the "quality" of your article.

Georg, I just want to give you another point of view. Writing isn't only about SEO.

Paul wrote an article and he used a different spin to what marketers normally ask for. Imagine if you were looking for a product, telling a story (even if its a short article) saying why you would use a product, is a powerful way to sell it.

I rarely write articles because most of my clients don't ask for articles. But, if you came to me to write your articles, I wouldn't just write stories for you. I would ask you what type of articles you want, which keywords you are using, do you want LSI, what voice you want. In other words I wouldn't assume anything, I would ask questions to give you the articles you had paid for.

When a client comes and asks me to write a book for them, I follow the same format, of talking to the client to ensure we are singing from the same page.

It is good you raised the point, because people hear a writer's price and don't totally understand why they charge the prices they do.

I'm not an article writer, I could write articles, and I could produce fodder for the search engines. But, I decided not to go that route.

In the past few months, I have written a manuscript for a publishing house, I have also written a screen film script. These are very different to writing SEO articles.

This is something a lot of marketers don't take into consideration, when a writer says they charge xxx per word etc.

Not all writers and writing is created equal, and comparing an article writer with a ghost writer will always give you a false value.

As I said to the OP, if they have to ask the question they are looking in the wrong place.

Asking a buyer what they are prepared to pay will get people saying I would never pay more than $5, you're ripping people off if you charge more than $10, or I would always pay $30 for an article.

People have different budgets and different needs. The person who bought articles for EZA and paid $30 for each of them did so because the ROI justified it. Yes, I am talking from experience.

The person who paid $5,000 for a book to be written did so because they knew their marketing plan and how it would generate tens of thousands of dollars for them.

Would a $5 article give the person $100,000 in sales? Maybe, maybe not. Without knowing the exact purpose of any writing, it is impossible to say.

The writer isn't going to give you the marketing plan, they might make suggestions, but the writer or rather a good writer will work to your specification and give you what you asked and paid for.

Bev

[Bob Monie]

For sure, but has to be either super link bait or 2000 words, hehe.

[Paul Myers]

Tina,

I never thought I would say this but you are wrong.

Frequently. Especially in cases like this, where people can make me wrong simply by wishing for something other than what I've said.

It isn't difficult for YOU. You do this so naturally and so well that you don't see it for the art that it is.

You've got that 100% backwards, ma'am. It is a natural thing that we can all do, right up until we become convinced that it's somehow a learned thing.

Like many tasks, we make it difficult by choosing the wrong tools.

If there's any art to what I do, it's very limited. It's the ability to set my ego down for a bit and see and feel things from the other guy's side. We're all born with that ability. We just need to remember it. To unlearn the idea that we're all that different from anyone else.

Words are nothing compared to the feeling of being understood.


Paul

[Steve Powers]

Even $5 per article,still many guys are willing to do that.You have to admit it.

[Bev Clement]

Originally Posted by Steve Powers

Even $5 per article,still many guys are willing to do that.You have to admit it.

Nobody has ever said there aren't $5 per article writers around.

Just because there are McD, Burger King and Wendy's around does that mean you still pay less than $5 for a kobe burger?

[Trent Brownrigg]

If it were extremely well-written, 100% original, only written for me and never to be sold to anyone else, and really long... Yes I would pay $20 or more for it.

[CDawson]

I would be willing to pay up TO 20$ per article, no more than that though. If you know that your content is of HIGH UNIQUE QUALITY, then you SHOULD get the most from your articles.

[Matt Gannon]

I would be glad to pay $20 for a 350 word article, as long as it was excellent quality and converted well into clicks to my website.

[Bev Clement]

Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan

You know, I understand that there are different reasons to pay a writer more or less. The site owner could like the work they do, trust them, know them, or like the personal touch.

Likewise, a writer could take less because he/she knows the site owner, knows they will pay, provides steady work, and gets a per word rate that results in a satisfactory hourly rate for them.

But it annoys me to no end when you see comments like the one above. I find it so incredibly arrogant and condescending. And that is on about every forum I visit there are always article writers trying to convince people that if they pay lower prices than whatever they deem acceptable, they are going to get garbage.

If you can charge higher prices and your clients are happy, then go for it. But I suspect if you constantly need to make the case that you're worth more, then you're really not.

What annoys me most, is the people who read a zillion thing in a simple comment. If you read my previous comments, I haven't said people shouldn't charge whatever they want to charge.

I was agreeing with the person there were $5 article writers around.

I was also stating if you need to read the meaning in my words, there are different qualities which clients need for different projects.

Anything else was your imagination or way of jumping on one comment to prove how offended you were.

BTW. I am not an article writer, never have been, never will be, so don't put a label on someone you don't know.

I don't convince people of my prices, I tell them my price, they either buy or walk away.

[Oxbloom]

Originally Posted by Bev Clement

What annoys me most, is the people who read a zillion thing in a simple comment. If you read my previous comments, I haven't said people shouldn't charge whatever they want to charge.

I was agreeing with the person there were $5 article writers around.

I was also stating if you need to read the meaning in my words, there are different qualities which clients need for different projects.

Anything else was your imagination or way of jumping on one comment to prove how offended you were.

BTW. I am not an article writer, never have been, never will be, so don't put a label on someone you don't know.

I don't convince people of my prices, I tell them my price, they either buy or walk away.

I think the offense was with the specific analogy you chose.

If you want to say that it is fine for some people to dine at Ponderosa, while others prefer Ruth's Chris, then that's one thing. Both sell steaks. The difference is one of presentation and price.

When you compare McDonald's to kobe beef, however, you are asserting that the difference is more than one of perception. You are saying then that one is fundamentally superior in quality and kind.

Frankly, I was taken aback also. I do trust you, however, if you say the slight was unintentional.

[Tina Golden]

If there's any art to what I do, it's very limited. It's the ability to set my ego down for a bit and see and feel things from the other guy's side. We're all born with that ability. We just need to remember it. To unlearn the idea that we're all that different from anyone else.

I can feel things from the other guy's point of view. But I can't get those feelings across like I've seen you do, Paul. Perhaps with practice, I can learn to do so. Some things do come from talent, though, and I think you put too little weight on your talent.

I believe that some people can create pictures with words the way artists do with paint. Sure, we can all learn to paint a tree but not all of us will be able to make people feel the breeze.

Tina

[ksburgess]

It depends. If the article was going to a directory, probably not. If it was for a mini-site or a review site, probably not.

But for one of my authority sites, yes, I would pay that for an article. And early in my online days I was paid $20 to write an article related to my niche for a big authority site, so I think that's fair.

I would expect the article to be well-researched, authoritative. And I would probably expect the writer to mimic my own voice and writing style

[Oxbloom]

Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan

Clearly!

Play nice.

[DaveHughes]

Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan

I don't know how I had mistaken you for a writer. You tagline below your name says "Writer" and you have about 5 links to writing offers. But either way, I won't split hairs, how bout you take money in exchange for providing words..whether you write them or not.

And I don't care if people charge more for writing. But you have tons of newbies reading the boards at all time. I think it's a little irresponsible to say that if you pay less you're getting a Wendy's hamburger vs. paying more and getting Kobe beef.

If that's not what you meant then fine. But the analogy seems to say that higher price equals superior value. Basically putting down both the purchaser and the writer who don't pay what you would consider to be acceptable rates. Not to mention not considering other factors for why a particular writer might take a lower wage (regular work for example)

I probably wouldn't have that opinion if your signature didn't have all those links to writing offers.

Whoa, there, soldier. She didn't say she wasn't a writer...read her entire sentence:

BTW. I am not an article writer, never have been, never will be, so don't put a label on someone you don't know.

There are other kinds of writing.

I do have a couple of questions, though; so, in your opinion there aren't different quality levels of writing? One writer is just as good as any other?

I don't believe that's what you meant, because if it were it would be incredibly naive'.

And again, it depends on the use you want to put your writing to, and what type it is. It's not a blanket rule, but in a lot of cases you do get what you pay for.

That's a cliche' for a reason.

That's not to say that there aren't some very talented writers that work for next-to-nothing (relatively speaking); but are you saying that there is no difference between an article written by someone that gets a rate of $5 per article and one written that routinely gets paid $.10 per word?

Keep in mind that's not a "hypothetical"; there are plenty of folks that get that rate on a regular basis, and the person paying it is happy.

I have one other question for everyone: since the golden rule of IM is "Test, test, test"...has anyone ever actually TESTED which type of article drives the most traffic and/or conversions, or is this the ONE area of IM where you don't bother to test because you think already know the answer?

Everyone split-tests keywords, website design, sales letters, autoresponders...anyone ever tested THIS? If not, it's the only thing I've seen that you "just know".

Why not get that sales page copy written for $5; I mean, it really doesn't make any difference in the long run.

Again, if you're putting your link under an article, that article is representing your business. In fact, it's the first interaction with your business that a potential customer has.

If someone is charging $5 per article that has talent, pretty soon they'll be booked solid with work, which will cause them to raise their rates until they are no longer slammed with orders. If they don't raise them, they'll either burn out, the quality will suffer and they'll move on to something else before you know it.

Why do some writers charge more? Demand. Why do some writers charge less? To create demand. What brings demand?

Quality.

[Paul Myers]

Oxbloom,

When you compare McDonald's to kobe beef, however, you are asserting that the difference is more than one of perception. You are saying then that one is fundamentally superior in quality and kind.

I'd be more likely to suggest a difference more akin to that between Chicken McNuggets and a gourmet dinner. Both are acceptable for their purpose, but one is clearly superior in every way.

That said, one needs to remember that some things which are offered as food are unfit for consumption. Many of the articles I've seen sold as WSOs would fit somewhere around "moldy strips of dead rat" on the food scale.

Lincoln,

And I don't care if people charge more for writing. But you have tons of newbies reading the boards at all time. I think it's a little irresponsible to say that if you pay less you're getting a Wendy's hamburger vs. paying more and getting Kobe beef.

I think what is being said here is that you're unlikely to get Kobe beef at a McChicken price.

I think it's extremely irresponsible for people to steer everyone who thinks of writing to the shallow end of the talent pool, where their skills are equated with those of a barely English-literate teenager.

For the most part, this abusive behavior is conducted by those who want to keep the price of content as low as possible. They say stupid things like, "There's no way an article is worth more than $5. Ever." If they said something like, "I don't need professional writing. I need short, quick content for search engine ranking of long-tail keyphrases, and that skill is not worth more than $X a piece to me," I wouldn't argue with them.

There are many levels of writing skill. You generally pay the appropriate price for the skill level that suits yours. And yes, sometimes you'll run into someone who charges less than the market would bear. Suggesting, however, that the higher skill levels are not legitimately superior and more valuable is simply lying. Or astonishingly stupid. And I don't really care much if that comment torques some people off.

No, that last statement isn't quite true. I hope it does aggravate some folks. Some people require shaking to wake them from their sleep.

If you AREN'T booking your schedule because you're charging a higher rate, then I would argue that you're not worth that price....no matter what you think your quality is.

Nonsense. It usually means that your marketing needs work.

And for the record, I do not do writing for clients any more. I haven't for a long time. I have no horse in this race.

Tina,

I believe that some people can create pictures with words the way artists do with paint. Sure, we can all learn to paint a tree but not all of us will be able to make people feel the breeze.

If you can write that paragraph, you can write as well as anyone.


Paul

[DaveHughes]

Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan

Writer or article writer is splitting hairs. As you can see I clarified, you get paid for delivering words on a page. I'm not going to argue about what you call yourself.

Article writer or writer, marketer or carny barker...it's all the same, right?

Originally Posted by Lincoln Ryan

See, I think your last sentence is a good one. If you're booking your schedule with jobs at a certain rate, then the market is telling you that the quality warrants a price increase. If you AREN'T booking your schedule because you're charging a higher rate, then I would argue that you're not worth that price....no matter what you think your quality is.

So that's the problem I have with the campaign by some writers to convince people that a higher price equals higher quality. You don't need to convince anyone. You raise prices when your supply exceeds demand. Not just arbitrarily.

So, you're saying that quality will warrant a price increase, but higher price does not equal higher quality?

True, which was part of the point made back on page one...people in IM won't pay a high price, because when the market tells us that the quality warrants a price increase, the writer won't get work. Why? Because (it seems to me at least) that "it doesn't matter what you call yourself, a writer is a writer. I'd never pay more than $xx for a writer!"

Again, I ask of you or anyone: is this tested, verified FACT, or is this just what "everybody knows"? Also, if you haven't tested the conversion rates of differing qualities of writing, what other part of your business do you not test?

This isn't meant to be a smart question, I'm genuinely curious. I've never seen anyone say "Well, I've split tested a $50 article from an extremely talented writer that took a week due to the amount of work they have against a $4 article from someone that delivered it in 6 hours, and there was no difference in response!"

Until you do that, everyone on both sides is just talking out of their butt with an unverified, untested opinion, which I don't think anyone would do with any other part...just the writing, which brings us back to the point Paul made back on page one...If you're looking for a market that pays writers based on quality, this ain't it, because most people in IM can't tell good writing from bad.

[Tina Golden]

Perhaps it's time to start marketing and charging based on results. I recently wrote a piece for a client that has resulted in well over $500 in sales in less than a month and has shown no sign of slowing down.

I think it's pretty fair to say that he got one heck of a bargain.

For marketer's, the end result is what matters. If you can find a $5 writer that brings in that kind of return, wonderful. From the complaints seen time and time again right here on this board, I think that is a rarity.

Tina

[Bev Clement]

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

Perhaps it's time to start marketing and charging based on results. I recently wrote a piece for a client that has resulted in well over $500 in sales in less than a month and has shown no sign of slowing down.

I think it's pretty fair to say that he got one heck of a bargain.

For marketer's, the end result is what matters. If you can find a $5 writer that brings in that kind of return, wonderful. From the complaints seen time and time again right here on this board, I think that is a rarity.

Tina

I like this idea as one product I wrote is responsible for making the person 6 figures. I know they had to use and market it, so they are responsible for the sales

[Sylvia Meier]

Here's my shot at it. Please note, I have 5 children running around me right now. Figured if I didn't try right now, I wouldn't remember to try it.


----------

The always blinking light was no longer blinking.

That annoying little green light, was no where to be seen.

And in that single moment my stomach sank.

In those few seconds that followed I held my breath.

"It's alright", I told myself.

"It will all be okay", I reassured myself.

And for those ensuing moments, I hoped pressing the on button would work. Surely, it was just turned off. Of course, it had just shut itself down when the power went out last night.

And for the first time since I began working on that small little machine, I hoped for the green light.

I hoped for the blink.

I prayed for the blink.

Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

I knew what it needed. A computer doctor could surely help.

Dialing the number I felt like I was calling 911 for someone I love. After all, this little machine was what my life depended on. This little machine was the difference between food on the table, a roof over my head and all those great little additions to my life I had so come to enjoy.

Ring.

Ring.

Ring.

Oh come on answer, please, please answer.

"Hello" said the voice on the other end of the line.

"I need help," I gasped. Boy did I ever sound like it was life or death.

"It won't turn on. We had a power outage last night and now it won't turn on!"

"Not to worry, we can help you out" said the voice. He sounded so sure, but in my gut, I wasn't.

"Just bring in your backup discs just in case and we will get you all sorted."

"Backups?!" I exclaimed.

"Yes, you know the backups of the info on your drives?"

Of course I knew what he was talking about. Come on, I'm an internet marketer. We always hear about the unfortunate ones who didn't back up and lost it all. But I never thought it would happen to me. I always thought I could do it tomorrow.

"Are you still there?" asked the voice.

"Yes, yes, sorry I am still here. What if I don't have a backup?"

"Well then we hope that there is no issues with your drives and data."

"Hope?" I didn't have hope, all I had was this lump in my throat. All I had was the thought in my head. 5 out of 6 businesses go under within 2 years after data loss.

"Yes, hope" replied the voice.

All the way to the store I tried to have hope. But all the way to the store I thought about all the things I could not replace.

Software, I could replace.

Hardware, I could replace.

Wedding pictures, all gone.

Financial info, gone.

So much, gone.

What about my passwords? Crap, I realized. I used Roboform to protect my data. I gagged on my own laughter, protect my data.

"That's right, you protect it from theft, why didn't you protect it from other issues?" I asked myself. If they didn't recover my data, all my passwords were gone! All my work was gone. I would for sure be in that stupid statistic now.

Fast forward two years...

Working for someone else isn't so bad.

I should start my own business. Again.