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Difficult Offline Niche Strategies?

by MarkR
22 replies
I've been working offline market for 6 years. Doing website development, SEO, business consulting, PPC, social marketing, etc. etc. While I've got my share of successes under my belt for most every niche, I can't seem to develop a strategy that works for the ultra-competitive foreclosure/loan modification market with a limited budget.

Clients make $300-$1,000 for each loan modification, want to market across the USA, but have tiny budgets of $300-$600 (one-time), or +-$150/month. That precludes PPC and doesn't pay for enough time to SEO a site to get significant organic rankings. The budget doesn't pay for enough hours to be successful.

Have any of you successfully driven leads for this market on a small budget? If so, how do you do that for these prices? I've walked away from 90% of these offers, but it bugs me that I can't win this niche.
#difficult #niche #offline #strategies
  • Profile picture of the author AaronSnider
    Craigslist is still good for offline clients.

    You may try facebook.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
      It confuses me why people are doing well in certain niches and always seem to want to go for the unreachable golden apple..

      If you do not have something very special like viral advertising or some great sales copy or sales pitch or organic domain you are struggling against the tide...

      Be ambitious, but don't kill yourself in the progress.

      There is a reason why these big companies are doing well, and that is a workforce of thousands all handing out business cards with the company name on them driving thousands of people every month to the same searches on google, which get them placed higher in the ranks. Take the hint
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      • Profile picture of the author MarkR
        Aaron, - thanks. I'm not looking for Offline clients in this question. I'm wondering the best/cheapest way to find loan modification leads for an Offline client.

        Sparhawke - Understood. It's more of an "I succeed in other niches, why not this one?". Maybe the budget just has to be higher, to pay for more marketing for competitive niches.
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        • Profile picture of the author ozduc
          Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

          Aaron, - thanks. I'm not looking for Offline clients in this question. I'm wondering the best/cheapest way to find loan modification leads for an Offline client.
          One way to find leads is to go to your county courthouse or any county and get a list of the people that have gone into default on their loans. It is public record and usually free. It will take some leg work on your part though. You could then send them a postcard that directs them to a lead capture page. Or in some cases phone numbers will be on the list so you could always cold call.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

    I've been working offline market for 6 years. Doing website development, SEO, business consulting, PPC, social marketing, etc. etc. While I've got my share of successes under my belt for most every niche, I can't seem to develop a strategy that works for the ultra-competitive foreclosure/loan modification market with a limited budget.
    Mark, with that kind of budget, you're never going to win a head-to-head war with the deep pockets guys.

    Seems to me, your best bets in this case might be networking and publicity.

    For the networking angle, get your client on LinkedIn.com and start them building relationships with financial types - credit counselors, bill collectors, even real estate agents. Figure out a way to reach some mutual benefit from referrals.

    For publicity, get your client to put out something unique - a report, poll, loophole, something the media can bite into that isn't directly promotional. Go for guest columns in newspapers and local business journals, appearances on radio shows, etc.

    With a budget like that, you have to substitute brains (creativity) and sweat for cash...
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      <snip>

      Seems to me, your best bets in this case might be networking and publicity.<snip>
      Words of wisdom. Classic guerrilla warfare, er, marketing tactic.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sparhawke
    I agree with John here but didn't think of it, if you really have your heart set on taking on the big boys see if you can hire one of the top copywriters, they will at least be able to make sure your copy doesn't get thrown in the bin with the rest when it comes to pruning the list that lands on the editors desk every morning :p

    You have an uphill struggle, I will be interested to see where it leads you
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  • Profile picture of the author AaronSnider
    nonono, I mean you can still use craigslist to generate leads for loan modifications. I find that real world bisiness posts on craigslist do much better for offline clients than internet marketers.

    Also Facebook allows you to target certian demographics, like age, geographic area, ect. So if you targeted zipcodes that were particularly depressed markets you may pick up some leads. Or you could target agegroups that are more apt to need your clients help. Have them profile their past clients, and if their clients are between 25-35, married, with 2.5 kids, then you can put their offer right in front of those people.

    I should have been more specific in the first place.
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    • Profile picture of the author butters
      Every area has networking events, if yours don't, create one. Social is the way to go in my opinion, you can reach prospects on a friendly level. Start adding people in your local area which use twitter and facebook or take out offline advertising, mail drops maybe. Sorry I don't have much experience in offline but I thought I would a little info .
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    • Profile picture of the author MarkR
      John - thanks. I always appreciate your insight. I think you're on to something here. I like it. +-$150/month pays (at best) for two hours of my time and I'm not sure how much networking you can get done in two hours. But LinkedIn is a great resource for stuff like that. I'm considering a deal where (instead of major upfront fees) my client would give me a percentage of her profit on every closed deal, but I don't think I can generate enough leads to make it worth my while. That works like gangbusters in other higher profit margin niches.

      Sparhawke - Agreed. Nobody sees the offer without good copy.

      Aaron - sorry, my bad, misunderstood your post. Now I'm with ya. I'm just not sure how to market across the whole US on Craigslist. I know there's some software that will help/hide IPs/automate, etc. but can you really cover a decent part of the US in two hours work a month? lol Ahh, facebook - now that's a different animal. I've never advertised on facebook. Can a advertising campaign be set up with minimal effort (hours) and are the advertising rates reasonable to reach a decent sized audience? I like the targeting feature, that makes sure you don't waste your money. Any real-world experience with that?

      Thanks guys!
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      • Profile picture of the author MarkR
        Butters - Totally agree with you there. Networking/word of mouth/relationship selling is how I get 85% of my business for the website design / Internet marketing work I get. Perfect solution for me. This client, on the other had, wants to just outsource all her lead generation / marketing to me. Doesn't want to work the face-to face game. Just wants to modify loans. So, normally I love those kinds of clients that want to outsource everything to me. I just need some with better budgets! lol

        debra - I like the way you think. Much more creative! I love the iPhone app/SMS ideas.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

        John - thanks. I always appreciate your insight. I think you're on to something here. I like it. +-$150/month pays (at best) for two hours of my time and I'm not sure how much networking you can get done in two hours. But LinkedIn is a great resource for stuff like that. I'm considering a deal where (instead of major upfront fees) my client would give me a percentage of her profit on every closed deal, but I don't think I can generate enough leads to make it worth my while. That works like gangbusters in other higher profit margin niches.

        Thanks guys!
        Your client may want to hand off 100% of lead generation, but with a budget like that, it ain't gonna work. Your client, or someone in her office, is going to have to get their hands dirty if they want to get anywhere.

        A lot of the people whose loans your client wants to modify got into homes they couldn't afford by using sweat equity - doing the finish painting, final clean-up, etc.

        In two hours a month, you can start the ball rolling, but your client is going to have to help push.
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        • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
          In the UK this niche is heavily advertised via newspaper and magazine ad's and I guess a smaller budget can compete with that. Just hit as many newspapers as you can and have a good compelling squeeze setup ready for the visitors arriving.
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        • Profile picture of the author debra
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          Your client may want to hand off 100% of lead generation, but with a budget like that, it ain't gonna work. Your client, or someone in her office, is going to have to get their hands dirty if they want to get anywhere.

          A lot of the people whose loans your client wants to modify got into homes they couldn't afford by using sweat equity - doing the finish painting, final clean-up, etc.

          In two hours a month, you can start the ball rolling, but your client is going to have to help push.
          That's why I though maybe an iphone app and/or a sms service would fit the bill better.

          On an iphone app...he would get paid for the download of the app. On the sms reminder/notification service he could add a very small membership fee which is perfectly acceptable.

          For the measly 150.00 he could hand over just so many leads and that's it. If he then is asked for more leads than that leaves it open to collect more.

          In any case he owns the applications and membership site and if a worst case senerio happens he has not lost any of his effort. He then just simply turn his leads to another entity that has the income to pay.

          I don't know...I think I just tried to defend an idea that doesn't need to be defended...I think I just had a female moment!
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      • Profile picture of the author AaronSnider
        Originally Posted by MarkR View Post


        Aaron - sorry, my bad, misunderstood your post. Now I'm with ya. I'm just not sure how to market across the whole US on Craigslist. I know there's some software that will help/hide IPs/automate, etc. but can you really cover a decent part of the US in two hours work a month? lol Ahh, facebook - now that's a different animal. I've never advertised on facebook. Can a advertising campaign be set up with minimal effort (hours) and are the advertising rates reasonable to reach a decent sized audience? I like the targeting feature, that makes sure you don't waste your money. Any real-world experience with that?
        For Facebook
        Not a whole lot actually, I am just getting into it. It's hard to get ads approved at first,
        but im getting the hang of it. While you are working on getting ads put together have your
        company build you a demographic for their exact customers. That way when you start
        getting your ads approved you know exactly who to target.

        As for craigslist I would target geographic areas that are depressed economically. Start in those sities first then move around. You can run 3 ads at a time on one account, so you
        may want to set up a couple accounts. You will need a different phone number for each
        one. If one area gets a good responce keep your ad there, if not try another city.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by debra View Post

          That's why I though maybe an iphone app and/or a sms service would fit the bill better.

          On an iphone app...he would get paid for the download of the app. On the sms reminder/notification service he could add a very small membership fee which is perfectly acceptable.

          For the measly 150.00 he could hand over just so many leads and that's it. If he then is asked for more leads than that leaves it open to collect more.

          In any case he owns the applications and membership site and if a worst case senerio happens he has not lost any of his effort. He then just simply turn his leads to another entity that has the income to pay.

          I don't know...I think I just tried to defend an idea that doesn't need to be defended...I think I just had a female moment!
          Your idea for the app makes sense. Adding on, here's a suggestion for an app/sms service. One thing I hear from people going through this process is the lag on getting information - many of the companies doing remods are months behind and they leave the homeowner stewing in their own juice. Regular updates delivered to their phone might be a killer app, as well as a nice USP...

          As for the female moment, given your Y-chromosome deficiency, it's quite understandable... :p

          Originally Posted by ozduc View Post

          One way to find leads is to go to your county courthouse or any county and get a list of the people that have gone into default on their loans. It is public record and usually free. It will take some leg work on your part though. You could then send them a postcard that directs them to a lead capture page. Or in some cases phone numbers will be on the list so you could always cold call.
          This is the kind of legwork that can be farmed out to anyone capable of writing legibly, or even better, taking photos of the pages. (Many offices won't allow you to take the books out of the room, so your options are to hand write the leads or take pictures of them. Pay by the lead, not the hour...
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  • Profile picture of the author debra
    Then don't directly compete with the big boys. Compete for the lead in the industry by lateral marketing.

    Loan modification usualy means that these ppl are in trouble and in need of "resources" to ease thier financial strain.

    A resource or tool that can keep a running final budget in order for example. An iphone app that can do this(think Your iphone app). An sms reminder when a certain amount of money was either credited or debited from a bank account.

    Just trying to get your creative juices rolling here.


    Originally Posted by MarkR View Post

    I've been working offline market for 6 years. Doing website development, SEO, business consulting, PPC, social marketing, etc. etc. While I've got my share of successes under my belt for most every niche, I can't seem to develop a strategy that works for the ultra-competitive foreclosure/loan modification market with a limited budget.

    Clients make $300-$1,000 for each loan modification, want to market across the USA, but have tiny budgets of $300-$600 (one-time), or +-$150/month. That precludes PPC and doesn't pay for enough time to SEO a site to get significant organic rankings. The budget doesn't pay for enough hours to be successful.

    Have any of you successfully driven leads for this market on a small budget? If so, how do you do that for these prices? I've walked away from 90% of these offers, but it bugs me that I can't win this niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Aragon
    I had a good buddy in Albuquerque NM when I was living out there that was killing it in this market bird-dogging for a local firm. His method was simple, offline affiliate marketing I guess you'd call it. I was a pest control tech and associated with lots of people on a day to day basis. He paid me $300 a rip, or lead if they ended up going through with the re-mod. He does this with all his extroverted friends and is able to be a full time student fulfilling his quest to become a doctor. Its a simple idea and you'd think anybody could do that but its his personality that makes it work. Just some thoughts.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joseph.
      There are some interesting, creative suggestions in this thread.

      My answer, however, would be: "find better clients"

      It's often not worth it to deal with cheap clients with tiny budgets - their micro budget severely limits your strategies, the return on your time is negligible at best and, in my experience, the cheaper the client the more headache he is going to give you.
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by Joseph. View Post

        <snip>...in my experience, the cheaper the client the more headache he is going to give you.
        Usually my experience too but I will give likable people going through a rough spot a special deal sometimes. What annoys me are the people who charge a lot for their services, but don't value (that is, respect) your services enough to properly pay for it -- no point in wasting time with them (why help their business?)
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        • Profile picture of the author MarkR
          Thanks for all the ideas, good stuff!

          Joseph/thunderbird, I kind of agree, normally I walk from these deals, but this is different. It will be the fourth marketing deal I've had with her (the client), she pays her bills, refers me other clients, and has a much larger deal in the hopper for later this year. Plus, this foreclosure / loan mod. market is new for her and she's just getting started, so she can't invest much until the cash rolls in. Hence, I don't want to walk on this one.

          I'm just trying to determine the best use of my (budget-limited) time and get the most value for her.

          debra's idea is also making more sense too. Since I'm risking/investing my time and maybe money, building a property that could produce leads long-term, I may as well own the lead-producing assets. Then, I can sell the leads to her, or someone else if she goes in a different direction.

          Lots to consider here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rita012
    I think John is absolutely right. It's about building relationships and expertise on a social network where potential clients or referral sources hang out.

    You might also consider doing an affiliate program so that other people can do the marketing on their dime, while your client just pays for results.
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