The Independent (commercial newspaper in the UK) accused of copyright infringement?

digigo · 01-17-2010, 08:25 PM

The Independent is a national and commercial newspaper in the UK.

On the 5 – 6 January 2010 they used the Flickr API to search for and display images of snow scenes in the UK – amongst those images displayed was one of mine which is clearly marked on Flickr as “all rights reserved”. They did not seek my permission for the use of my image. I am assuming they used the API without applying a filter on the licence type, this also means that other UK photographers may have had their copyrighted work used without permission; might be worth checking if you had any refers from the Independent on those days.

Below, is a summary of the messages that have been exchanged between myself and Jimmy Leach the Editorial Director for Digital at The Independent; I found their initial reply both surprising and alarming.

Source: Breach of Copyright - The Independent on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Rich Struck · 01-17-2010, 08:34 PM

Honestly - one picture used by mistake - This is not a battle I would choose to fight. You aren't out anything and it's not like they are reselling it or something. IMHO this battle is a poor way to spend your time.

WD Mino · 01-17-2010, 08:43 PM

**** Edit after reviewing the entire terms of service the part where you give up any rights is only in regards to submission outside of media therefore I was wrong and stand corrected so in fact You would win a case against them Geesh what a fool I look like but that'll teach me

-WD

Rich Struck · 01-17-2010, 08:53 PM

There is one more aspect of this that you may wish to consider and this is why I never send hate mail to a news outlet... Someday, you might do something worthy of a free write up and that kind of publicity is priceless. When that happens, do you want the paper to be a friend or an enemy? I can't tell you how many times I've been tempted to send snotty emails to our local TV station but I don't because I might need them someday.

AmyBrown · 01-17-2010, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WD Mino

LOL thanks for the laugh I needed that.

You will lose this battle let it go. according to yahoo You irrevocably waive any moral rights or other rights with respect to attribution of authorship or integrity in the Content you submit. which inevitably means you cannot put that wording on your photo to begin with.

Like I said just let it go.
-WD

Huh? care to cite a source for that gem?

grandstar · 01-17-2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WD Mino

You will lose this battle let it go. according to yahoo You irrevocably waive any moral rights or other rights with respect to attribution of authorship or integrity in the Content you submit. which inevitably means you cannot put that wording on your photo to begin with.

Like I said just let it go.

***Edit. I just read your thing on the site and it seems you folks are really adamant you need to pursue this so by all means don't listen to me or to the terms of service you submitted to and go after them. just remember when you lose you will also be responsible for all legal costs incurred.

Seems you guys need to understand what it is your submitting to even on my own site any sibmissions become the property of the site not the submitter even though flickr says they don't own the photos they do have this in their TOS for submission if anyone had a leg to stand on it would be Yahoo but not you however after reading I see you folks are adamant so i wish you luck.
-WD

I too am waiting

Don Schenk · 01-17-2010, 09:14 PM

Here in the States there are 3 professional photography trade associations. I do know that 2 of them (and maybe #3 also) supply the legal staff and clout to go after copyright infringement for members.

Are you a pro and a member of a similar trade association in the UK? That may be a better route.

:-Don

butters · 01-17-2010, 09:17 PM

Personally I wouldn't peruse them, this is just my opinion, if they used my picture I wouldn't even care. I am sure taking on a paper like the independent, you might get some compensation, you might not, I am sure your time is better spent else where.

JeffLam · 01-17-2010, 09:18 PM

Hmmm, sounds very unprofessional of a UK newspaper representative according to the email chain.

Good luck with it, Pete. I honestly think you are doing the right thing by protecting your rights. The Independant should take this as a learning lesson too: Steal a photograph now and nothing happens, and they may try to steal unique articles next thinking the same.

Looks like their responses has also tried to 'delay some time' with your procedings. Seems like fear or uncertainty to me following their 'confident' response to you.

Best of luck to you again Pete!

WD Mino · 01-17-2010, 09:31 PM

Sure I will cite a source yahoo terms of service on flickr

-WD

**** Edit. I just read the entire terms of service and I stand corrected. that part refers to ideas etc that are submitted to Yahoo.

Ok I was wrong I apologize I will edit the post
-WD

AmyBrown · 01-17-2010, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WD Mino

Sure I will cite a source yahoo terms of service on flickr

-WD

Ok, I'll wait for the citation.

Meanwhile this is from the Flickr FAQ:

Source: Flickr: Help: Photos

Frank Donovan · 01-17-2010, 09:51 PM

IMO, the OP may indeed have a case regarding copyright infringement, but this is not the way in which to pursue it.

It might have been better to have immediately submitted an invoice to the Independent and if met with resistance, to then just refer the matter to a solicitor or other qualified legal representative.

I doubt that it's helpful to get involved in a protracted email conversation, and probably unwise to then publish details of that correspondence on a blog or public forum.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer etc.

Frank

Fraggler · 01-17-2010, 10:06 PM

It is a sign of the times - lazy journalism. News sites feed off user generated content and lack what seems the most basic research skills. I had one photo off Flickr placed onto online papers here and then I get a call from someone asking if it was my photo on the tele...wtf. The credited my name at least lol.

This here I think shows how both online and offline news struggles to read or research their sources - http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/tra...s/s2698835.htm (Fake company makes a fake press release about false articles which even says it is fake and it hits every major News outlet and ACA show in Australia haha).

01-17-2010, 08:25 PM	#1
digigo HyperActive Warrior Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dallas Posts: 359 Thanks: 2 Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts Social Networking	The Independent (commercial newspaper in the UK) accused of copyright infringement? The Independent is a national and commercial newspaper in the UK. On the 5 – 6 January 2010 they used the Flickr API to search for and display images of snow scenes in the UK – amongst those images displayed was one of mine which is clearly marked on Flickr as “all rights reserved”. They did not seek my permission for the use of my image. I am assuming they used the API without applying a filter on the licence type, this also means that other UK photographers may have had their copyrighted work used without permission; might be worth checking if you had any refers from the Independent on those days. Below, is a summary of the messages that have been exchanged between myself and Jimmy Leach the Editorial Director for Digital at The Independent; I found their initial reply both surprising and alarming. Source: Breach of Copyright - The Independent on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
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01-17-2010, 08:34 PM	#2
Rich Struck Senior Warrior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Scotland, SD Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 42 Thanked 278 Times in 181 Posts	Re: The Independent (commercial newspaper in the UK) accused of copyright infringement? Honestly - one picture used by mistake - This is not a battle I would choose to fight. You aren't out anything and it's not like they are reselling it or something. IMHO this battle is a poor way to spend your time.

01-17-2010, 08:43 PM	#3
WD Mino Expert Product Creator War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Home Posts: 1,786 Blog Entries: 7 Thanks: 976 Thanked 624 Times in 406 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: The Independent (commercial newspaper in the UK) accused of copyright infringement? **** Edit after reviewing the entire terms of service the part where you give up any rights is only in regards to submission outside of media therefore I was wrong and stand corrected so in fact You would win a case against them Geesh what a fool I look like but that'll teach me -WD
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01-17-2010, 08:53 PM	#4
Rich Struck Senior Warrior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Scotland, SD Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 42 Thanked 278 Times in 181 Posts	Re: The Independent (commercial newspaper in the UK) accused of copyright infringement? There is one more aspect of this that you may wish to consider and this is why I never send hate mail to a news outlet... Someday, you might do something worthy of a free write up and that kind of publicity is priceless. When that happens, do you want the paper to be a friend or an enemy? I can't tell you how many times I've been tempted to send snotty emails to our local TV station but I don't because I might need them someday.

01-17-2010, 09:14 PM	#7
Don Schenk Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH and beautiful Park City, UT Posts: 1,649 Thanks: 775 Thanked 495 Times in 335 Posts	Re: The Independent (commercial newspaper in the UK) accused of copyright infringement? Here in the States there are 3 professional photography trade associations. I do know that 2 of them (and maybe #3 also) supply the legal staff and clout to go after copyright infringement for members. Are you a pro and a member of a similar trade association in the UK? That may be a better route. :-Don
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01-17-2010, 09:17 PM	#8
butters Lee Bartlett War Room Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Harlow, Essex, Uk Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 81 Thanked 173 Times in 133 Posts	Re: The Independent (commercial newspaper in the UK) accused of copyright infringement? Personally I wouldn't peruse them, this is just my opinion, if they used my picture I wouldn't even care. I am sure taking on a paper like the independent, you might get some compensation, you might not, I am sure your time is better spent else where.

01-17-2010, 09:18 PM	#9
JeffLam Entrepreneur War Room Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Singapore Posts: 573 Thanks: 128 Thanked 53 Times in 44 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: The Independent (commercial newspaper in the UK) accused of copyright infringement? Hmmm, sounds very unprofessional of a UK newspaper representative according to the email chain. Good luck with it, Pete. I honestly think you are doing the right thing by protecting your rights. The Independant should take this as a learning lesson too: Steal a photograph now and nothing happens, and they may try to steal unique articles next thinking the same. Looks like their responses has also tried to 'delay some time' with your procedings. Seems like fear or uncertainty to me following their 'confident' response to you. Best of luck to you again Pete!
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01-17-2010, 09:31 PM	#10
WD Mino Expert Product Creator War Room Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Home Posts: 1,786 Blog Entries: 7 Thanks: 976 Thanked 624 Times in 406 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: The Independent (commercial newspaper in the UK) accused of copyright infringement? Sure I will cite a source yahoo terms of service on flickr -WD **** Edit. I just read the entire terms of service and I stand corrected. that part refers to ideas etc that are submitted to Yahoo. Ok I was wrong I apologize I will edit the post -WD
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01-17-2010, 09:51 PM	#12
Frank Donovan Unplugged War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: London, UK. Posts: 1,504 Thanks: 538 Thanked 1,274 Times in 643 Posts Contact Info	Re: The Independent (commercial newspaper in the UK) accused of copyright infringement? IMO, the OP may indeed have a case regarding copyright infringement, but this is not the way in which to pursue it. It might have been better to have immediately submitted an invoice to the Independent and if met with resistance, to then just refer the matter to a solicitor or other qualified legal representative. I doubt that it's helpful to get involved in a protracted email conversation, and probably unwise to then publish details of that correspondence on a blog or public forum. Of course, I'm not a lawyer etc. Frank
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01-17-2010, 10:06 PM	#13
Fraggler Troy Steele War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 1,699 Thanks: 702 Thanked 464 Times in 300 Posts Social Networking	Re: The Independent (commercial newspaper in the UK) accused of copyright infringement? It is a sign of the times - lazy journalism. News sites feed off user generated content and lack what seems the most basic research skills. I had one photo off Flickr placed onto online papers here and then I get a call from someone asking if it was my photo on the tele...wtf. The credited my name at least lol. This here I think shows how both online and offline news struggles to read or research their sources - http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/tra...s/s2698835.htm (Fake company makes a fake press release about false articles which even says it is fake and it hits every major News outlet and ACA show in Australia haha).
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