Video Marketing using other People's Videos

39 replies
I've seen websites with all the Crazy Cat videos found on YouTube, and similar examples where a site features videos CLEARLY not made by the site owners.

Is this considered Video marketing? Isn't it illegal if you don't get the owners permission?

Here's a bit a sales copy I found for some product out there:

A couple of months ago I started doing a little experimenting to see what kind of traffic I could pull in using videos.

I started off creating my own crumby little videos and submitting them to Youtube. My videos did okay but they were a pain to create and I hate spending a chunk of my time on something hoping it pays off.

Then one day while I was watching some amateur online videos a little "light bulb" went off in my head.

Why not just ask other amateur video makers (whose videos were much better than mine) if I could use their videos for my video channels?

I sent out a few promotional requests to some content producers and was delighted to discover that most of them didn't mind at all and some of them were actually thrilled by the request!

Once all of the videos I wanted had been approved for promotional use I simply changed their title, description, and tags and resubmitted them to other high traffic video sharing sites including back on to Youtube where I first found the video.

And the results were....
(we know the rest )

What's the deal with Video Marketing using Other People's Stuff?
#marketing #people #video #videos
  • Profile picture of the author joeykissimmee
    it's kinda tricky. if there is no copyright on it then I think its fair game.

    Just make sure it doesn't have any copyright stuff on it.

    I have a technique I use called video swiping that I use just to simply
    drive traffic...

    Joey k.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Joey,
      it's kinda tricky. if there is no copyright on it then I think its fair game.

      Just make sure it doesn't have any copyright stuff on it.
      There's nothing tricky about it. Everything that's on a video site is copyrighted. If it's original, it's copyright holder is the creator of the video.

      Don't use people's stuff without asking. That's not tricky at all.


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      • Profile picture of the author joeykissimmee
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Joey,There's nothing tricky about it. Everything that's on a video site is copyrighted. If it's original, it's copyright holder is the creator of the video.

        Don't use people's stuff without asking. That's not tricky at all.


        Paul

        True Paul. if your gonna use it to sale something definitely ask. But when its on sites like youtube where its free to the public, it changes things.
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        • Profile picture of the author koolphoto
          Whether there is a copyright symbol or not, it is implied that the work is copyrighted under US copyright law. Youtube allows you to imbed youtube videos on your websites. But, that doesn't mean that there is no copyright.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Taylor
          Originally Posted by joeykissimmee View Post

          if your gonna use it to sale something definitely ask. But when its on sites like youtube where its free to the public, it changes things.
          Copyright protection has nothing to do with whether you're going to make money from it or not. You could pirate someone else's work and give it away free and you'd still be a law breaker.

          It changes nothing.
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        • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Joey,There's nothing tricky about it. Everything that's on a video site is copyrighted. If it's original, it's copyright holder is the creator of the video.

          Don't use people's stuff without asking. That's not tricky at all.
          Originally Posted by joeykissimmee View Post

          True Paul. if your gonna use it to sale something definitely ask. But when its on sites like youtube where its free to the public, it changes things.
          "But when its on sites like youtube where its free to the public, it changes things."

          The only thing it changes is your perception, obviously. The copyright laws are in force to protect published materials, not just stuff on your hard drive.

          Free to the public does not mean free to steal, copy, or otherwise misuse original content.

          If you are syndicating the content that is one thing. But there are no 'changes' just because you can view it freely.

          KJ
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      • Profile picture of the author TheWealthSquad
        Notice that in the text the OP quoted they ASKED the video producers if they could use their content for marketing purposes.

        If you get permission from the copyright holder, you are good to go.

        Don't steal someone's work without attribution. If they agree to allow you to use it, you aren't stealing.
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    • Profile picture of the author birdie28a
      Originally Posted by joeykissimmee View Post

      it's kinda tricky. if there is no copyright on it then I think its fair game.

      Just make sure it doesn't have any copyright stuff on it.

      I have a technique I use called video swiping that I use just to simply
      drive traffic...

      Joey k.
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      .
      .
      I was sent a report a few days ago about this and they basically said the same thing. If the video has no copyright then yes it is fair game. I guess it just depends on what you really want to do.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by joeykissimmee View Post

        True Paul. if your gonna use it to sale something definitely ask. But when its on sites like youtube where its free to the public, it changes things.
        Sorry Joey, but if you think like that you may one day be sitting across the table from an attorney trying to figure out how to get out of the mess you got yourself into. Keep reading and you'll learn why.

        Originally Posted by IM Headlines View Post

        If the video is not copyrighted, then it's not illegal.

        Unethical? Maybe, but not illegal.
        Any original intellectual property created after 1976 - that means any video, ebook, print book, audio, painting, graphic, etc. - is copyright protected for 70 years after the death of the creator unless it has SPECIFICALLY and INTENTIONALLY been placed in the public domain by the creator of said property, or the copyright holder if the copyrights have been passed on or inherited.

        This has been US law and part of international copyright treaties since 1976. A copyright notice does NOT have to be present for an intellectual property to be copyrighted. It only has to be fixed in a tangible medium, and yes, being published on the internet qualifies. There's much more to it than this, but this is Copyright 101 for those to busy to actually research the topic.

        Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post

        Of course the problem with just using Youtube's embed system is that anyone watching a vidoe is sent to Youtube's site and may not return to our site.

        I've done some research since I posted this and apparently some people suggest we don't just embed, but rather downlown the videos then run them off our site using an open source tool like Flow Player.

        Thoughts?
        Here's a thought - maybe you should learn to create your own videos if you don't want to abide by the law or YouTube's terms of service. It's a lot safer than trying to fudge your away around those little inconveniences.

        Originally Posted by birdie28a View Post

        I was sent a report a few days ago about this and they basically said the same thing. If the video has no copyright then yes it is fair game. I guess it just depends on what you really want to do.
        Again, an absence of a copyright notice does not make a video or any other intellectual property up for grabs. I'd bet good money over 99% of the legal videos on YouTube are copyright protected whether the creator of them knows it or not. You'll need a video created before 1923 or one created by the government (and not all of them are copyright free either!); or, one created between 1923 and 1963 that did NOT have the copyright renewed to be able to legally use it. Anything published in 1964 or later is still protected.

        I hope that clears things up some. I'm not an attorney, but I did a lot of research into this topic for a product I wrote. I may be year or two off as I'm writing this off the top of my head without digging out my research notes, but it isn't far off the mark.
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      • Profile picture of the author Heidi White
        Originally Posted by birdie28a View Post

        I was sent a report a few days ago about this and they basically said the same thing. If the video has no copyright then yes it is fair game. I guess it just depends on what you really want to do.

        This is from Youtube: Uploading materials that you do not own is a copyright violation and against the law. If you upload material you do not own, your account will be deleted.

        Just because someone doesn't have the words copyright written on their video, or allows embedding to occur - that doesn't mean they aren't the owners of that original work. It certainly does mean that you do not own it, however, because - guess what - you didn't create it - duh!

        ---------------
        Don't kid yourself - YouTube videos are not fair game.

        I've seen reports and courses in all fields (not just IM) where gurus think they've found a way to beat the system, and they downplay the downright illegal or unethical aspects of their profitable strategy.

        So - just because someone says some action is OK, that doesn't make it so.

        Read the rules yourself and if you decide to break them - don't try and pretend you are not because someone said, 'it's fair game.'
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      • Profile picture of the author Elle Holder
        Originally Posted by birdie28a View Post

        I was sent a report a few days ago about this and they basically said the same thing. If the video has no copyright then yes it is fair game. I guess it just depends on what you really want to do.
        I was sent a report a few days ago that said bungee jumping without the rope is a the proper way to do it. I'm planning on trying it next weekend.

        When did people start believing everything they read??

        The complete lack of DD amazes me. People on the forum obviously have access to a computer, therefore they have tons of research material at their disposal. Do a large percentage of the people here check it out? No. They prefer to believe the ridiculous spoutings of fools, and then turn around and repeat it.

        Running an IM business is going to be just a little difficult when your host keeps taking your sites down because you don't know that putting stolen work on your site is against their rules.

        Good luck with that! :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author swilliams09
        Originally Posted by birdie28a View Post

        I was sent a report a few days ago about this and they basically said the same thing. If the video has no copyright then yes it is fair game. I guess it just depends on what you really want to do.

        So just because this report said it, that makes it true? What was the source? Just because a video doesn't have a copyright symbol doesn't mean it's not protected. The act of creating the video grants the creator rights in this country (USA) with or without a copyright symbol. My job has sued people for taking footage from our show clips on line to use in their own products if they did not give us credit or compensation. Just be careful who you steal from k?

        Also if your embedding, your in the clear. If you are using an amateur's work, remember if he is using stolen material some of that blow back may come on you. Buyer beware.

        I've seen a lot of blogs lately that will rip some video from youtube or somewhere else on the net and put their own watermark or open or close graphic on it. Mainly for bandwith and marketing reasons, it's some popular video that's hard to reach and they set it up on their own server. So if it goes down, they still have it. I haven't seen much legal noise about this. But coming from TV we HAVE to credit the original source of any footage that we use, otherwise we can face FCC fines and lawsuits from the owners of the copyright. The internet in many ways is still the wild wild west when it comes to video copyright.
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  • Profile picture of the author VegasGreg
    Asking for permission and receiving permission to use and change a video is fine.

    You can also "embed" videos from YouTube (or similar places) on your own site without altering them. YouTube does allow this and offers the embed code for this purpose (for most videos). This does not give anyone the right to download and alter or claim copyrights to that video. It surely doesn't mean you can use it "freely".
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    • Profile picture of the author Heidi White
      Originally Posted by VegasGreg View Post

      Asking for permission and receiving permission to use and change a video is fine.

      You can also "embed" videos from YouTube (or similar places) on your own site without altering them. YouTube does allow this and offers the embed code for this purpose (for most videos). This does not give anyone the right to download and alter or claim copyrights to that video. It surely doesn't mean you can use it "freely".
      So - If I created a site, say "people eating ice-cream" and just embedded all the best "people eating ice cream" videos and didn't make any changes to the videos would that be OK?

      It seems like that's the point of YouTubes one button access to the embed code - isn't it?

      When someone clicks on the video, it takes them to YouTube and to the creators channel.

      Isn't that the point of why YouTube gives access to the embed code, to help people's videos go viral, and drive more traffic to YouTube?
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Taylor
        Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post

        It seems like that's the point of YouTubes one button access to the embed code - isn't it?
        This is fine, since that's the point of the embed code. You're not copying the other person's video and republishing it. You're syndicating a video hosted on YouTube.

        The YouTube player shows where the video came from, so there's no question about origins.

        Producers have the ability to disable off-site embedding, so if they really don't want it syndicated, THEY will make sure you can't show it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Heidi White
          So - I'm off to find the best videos of people eating ice-cream and go make a blog about it - (or something else, but I'm not telling.) LOL
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          • Profile picture of the author Roy Everitt
            Thanks Michael Taylor for putting it so succinctly. If you're syndicating someone's content, that's fine, and if they don't want it syndicated they just have to disable that function.

            Not everyone is aware they can protect their videos, though, so you might still hear from an irate owner asking you to remove their content from your site. Just do so - there are probably thousands more on the same theme you can use instead.

            If you're claiming content as your own, that's another matter, unless you have the owner's permission. Effectively, it's plagiarism unless they give you express permission.

            At least, I hope that's the case!
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  • Profile picture of the author JesseVinceCruz
    Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post

    I've seen websites with all the Crazy Cat videos found on YouTube, and similar examples where a site features videos CLEARLY not made by the site owners.

    Is this considered Video marketing? Isn't it illegal if you don't get the owners permission?

    Here's a bit a sales copy I found for some product out there:

    (we know the rest )

    What's the deal with Video Marketing using Other People's Stuff?

    I would not recommend using other people's videos unless you have permission. Youtube can and may delete your videos.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Atkins
    Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post

    I've seen websites with all the Crazy Cat videos found on YouTube, and similar examples where a site features videos CLEARLY not made by the site owners.

    Is this considered Video marketing? Isn't it illegal if you don't get the owners permission?

    Here's a bit a sales copy I found for some product out there:

    (we know the rest )

    What's the deal with Video Marketing using Other People's Stuff?

    If the video is not copyrighted, then it's not illegal.

    Unethical? Maybe, but not illegal.
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    • Profile picture of the author getsmartt
      Originally Posted by IM Headlines View Post

      If the video is not copyrighted, then it's not illegal.

      Unethical? Maybe, but not illegal.

      I think you are missing the Point....all videos (at least according to US copyright laws) ARE COPYRIGHTED, unless the creator expressly gives up those rights, i.e. he/she enters them into public domain, or uses certain CC licensing. Simply posting the Video on the internet or a Video Sharing site does not remove the copyright held by the original creator.

      And to expand things a bit, if the creator of the video did not write the script used in the video, or the music in the video, then there are tw0 more copyright holders to deal with.
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  • Profile picture of the author Heidi White
    Of course the problem with just using Youtube's embed system is that anyone watching a vidoe is sent to Youtube's site and may not return to our site.

    I've done some research since I posted this and apparently some people suggest we don't just embed, but rather downlown the videos then run them off our site using an open source tool like Flow Player.

    Thoughts?
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    • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
      Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post

      Of course the problem with just using Youtube's embed system is that anyone watching a vidoe is sent to Youtube's site and may not return to our site.

      I've done some research since I posted this and apparently some people suggest we don't just embed, but rather downlown the videos then run them off our site using an open source tool like Flow Player.

      Thoughts?
      In other words, since the OWNER of the video might benefit from your use of it... better to steal it and use it as your own.

      Brilliant advice.

      Internet marketing is effin' doomed.

      Brian
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    • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
      Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post

      So - If I created a site, say "people eating ice-cream" and just embedded all the best "people eating ice cream" videos and didn't make any changes to the videos would that be OK?

      It seems like that's the point of YouTubes one button access to the embed code - isn't it?

      When someone clicks on the video, it takes them to YouTube and to the creators channel.

      Isn't that the point of why YouTube gives access to the embed code, to help people's videos go viral, and drive more traffic to YouTube?
      Are you talking about embedding the video so they watch it on your site, or linking to the video so they go to YouTube to watch it?

      If you're talking about the former, you may run afoul of YouTube's TOS. You can embed videos, yes, but if you try to make your own video site utilizing YouTube, you may run into issues.

      Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post

      Of course the problem with just using Youtube's embed system is that anyone watching a vidoe is sent to Youtube's site and may not return to our site.

      I've done some research since I posted this and apparently some people suggest we don't just embed, but rather downlown the videos then run them off our site using an open source tool like Flow Player.

      Thoughts?
      You can't do that without the permission of the owner of the video.

      If I upload a video to YouTube, I am allowing people to view it on YouTube. I may or may not allow embedding. But, my uploading of a video to YouTube does not grant anyone else permission to download my video and host it on their own site. That would be infringing upon my copyright.
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      • Profile picture of the author Craig Zimbrowski
        You must follow copyright terms to avoid problems, it sounds not fair taking advantage of other's videos to sell your own products. You better make your own videos.
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  • Profile picture of the author MJ Sterling
    There's plenty of video stock footage sites out there, so there's really no need to take other people's copyrighted videos anymore.
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  • Profile picture of the author Heidi White
    What are some of these Video Stock Footage sites? The only ones I found were old, public domain videos - like National Parks, etc.

    I'd surely love to see a link like this one, but strictly for video content?

    100 (Legal) Sources for Free Stock Images | Virtual Hosting Blog
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    • Profile picture of the author Elle Holder
      Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post

      What are some of these Video Stock Footage sites? The only ones I found were old, public domain videos - like National Parks, etc.

      I'd surely love to see a link like this one, but strictly for video content?

      100 (Legal) Sources for Free Stock Images | Virtual Hosting Blog
      istock has stock video footage, but it isn't cheap. The longest clip I've ever looked at on their site was about 30 sec long, and about $40. I don't know if they have anything longer.

      Just use their search and narrow your criteria to video. istockphoto
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  • Profile picture of the author TheProdigy
    Before you go too crazy, it's technically not stealing, but it's not exactly the most ethical thing.

    Better to start off clean...
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Which is why you need to watermark your videos to stop these people from leeching of them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Heidi White
    originally posted by Dennis Gaskell
    Here's a thought - maybe you should learn to create your own videos if you don't want to abide by the law or YouTube's terms of service. It's a lot safer than trying to fudge your away around those little inconveniences.
    Here's a thought, maybe you shouldn't assume I'm trying to fudge my way around this - I'm not. (see my recent post above.)

    I'm just trying to understand the rules. The last thing I want to do is break any laws.

    As far as making my own videos, I've done some of that and I'll continue. However, from an efficiency standpoint, if there was a way an economical and legal way to get already made video footage (along the lines of stock photography sites) then obviously, I could speed up certain types of IM projects.

    FYI: Here's the Link to YouTube's Terms of Use Agreement: http://www.youtube.com/t/terms
    I'll need to personally spend more time trying to interpret the legalize. My ice cream idea MAY not be OK, based upon a cursory viewing of the T&C's.
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Perhaps, if you're not sure about using Youtube vids, you could simply make a slide-show video of people eating icecream. Windows Movie Maker is very easy to use, and by doing this you can put your url directly in the video.
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  • Profile picture of the author TylerF
    It is kinda of a great hat area.

    If the video creator is just an amateur, I don't think he will sue you or anything for using his video. In fact, I think he might be flattered that someone admires his videos.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roy Everitt
      Yes, of course uploading other people's stuff to your site without their permission is illegal and against YouTube's TOCs, but embedding a video isn't the same as uploading it.

      Embedding is syndicating material, and it's still hosted on YouTube, where the owner put it. Embedding someone else's video means they still get all the credit for creating it, and most of the extra traffic it might generate will go to their channel on YouTube.

      All the 'embedder' gets is the credit for finding some useful stuff for his or her audience. It's not so different to lending someone a useful book or a DVD and saying 'I think you'll find this interesting', except the author hasn't even lost out on a sale of the book or DVD, since the video was always free to view.
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  • Profile picture of the author Heidi White
    Here's an example of the type of site I was talking about in my OP.

    All YouTube videos, established for a couple of years, hoping to sell for 1500 on Flippa.

    For Sale on Flippa ? http://www.cuteaddict.com/
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
    I think that's copyright infringement and nothing else. If you don't have the copyright for something, I'd recommend staying away from it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Heidi White
      Mohammad - What do you think is copyright infringment - the site that's for sale, or something else in this thread?
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  • Profile picture of the author Russ Emrick
    Frightening that opinions are shared as fact. Where is a lawyer when you need one. See the copyright law quoted below. YouTube videos are copyrighted. Use of them (not synication of them which has been noted by others) without the expressed written permission of their creator is a violation of law.

    No gray area

    No fishy area

    Absolutely a violation of the law and while not easily enforced or even possible to be found it is, what was that, oh yeah, a violation of law.

    The advice of downloading and using the video on your website is good advice in case YouTube deletes it. It also stops the clicking away from your site to YouTube or another site. If any gray area exists it would be: if you don't change the video in any way are you able to use the video without the use of a syndication service such as YouTube. My interpretation of the law (I am not a lawyer I only play one on the Internet) is that no, you cannot do this without the permission of the video creator or copyright owner.

    I would make the argument that a YouTube uploader gave them permission to use and syndicate the material - not you. Do it at your own risk.

    In effect since January 1, 1978, the current copyright law protects a work for the author's lifetime plus an additional 50 years. For commissioned works or works made for hire--that is, by businesses or their employees--copyright generally lasts 75 years from the work's publication. [Note: The term of protection has been amended since this video was published. The current term is an author's lifetime plus 70 years. For works made for hire, the duration of copyright is 95 years from publication or 120 years from creation, whichever is shorter.] The law originally required copyright owners whose works were published or registered before 1978 to file renewal applications for a second term. But in 1992, renewal was made automatic. However, the law offers incentives to encourage the filing of renewal applications.


    Registering an original work with the Copyright Office is not required to maintain copyright protection under the present law. Once an original work is written down, recorded, or tangibly fixed in an acceptable form, it is, in effect, copyrighted, and no action by the Copyright Office is necessary.
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  • Profile picture of the author Heidi White
    For Sale on Flippa ? http://www.cuteaddict.com/

    This site has nothing but YouTube videos, but you stay on the site to watch each video, and there is no way to know who actually created the video.

    At first, I thought - perhaps - the site creators made those videos until I saw the ones in Japanese and videos I've seen before.

    Just because they've gotten away with it, and may now sell it for a pretty penny doesn't mean it's OK - I know.

    Do we all agree that this site is breaking the rules, because embedding means the viewer goes back to YouTube and anything else is a copyright violation, unless the original author has provided permission?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post

      For Sale on Flippa ? http://www.cuteaddict.com/

      This site has nothing but YouTube videos, but you stay on the site to watch each video, and there is no way to know who actually created the video.

      At first, I thought - perhaps - the site creators made those videos until I saw the ones in Japanese and videos I've seen before.

      Just because they've gotten away with it, and may now sell it for a pretty penny doesn't mean it's OK - I know.

      Do we all agree that this site is breaking the rules, because embedding means the viewer goes back to YouTube and anything else is a copyright violation, unless the original author has provided permission?
      Ok, I think I see where you are going.

      Here's the deal.

      You can use any youtube video you want by just embedding it on your site. I'm not talking about downloading it and copying it to your own server. I'm talking about simply taking the embed code to display on a site. There is nothing illegal about this - even if you are doing it for marketing.

      If Joe Marketer does not want me using his videos on my site, he can actually block within his account so that his video will not display anywhere else but youtube.

      If Joe Marketer is WISE he will be sure to watermark what ever videos he has with his website, and only load up material he expects others to embed on their sites. He would be flattered that I would share his materials that are watermarked - thus spreading his domain name.

      In the case of your Flippa site - who ever is buying the site should realize it is videos from youtube that they have no control over. A lot of people may not mind this what so ever. Does the auction say the copyright to the videos is included? Does it guarantee the videos will be there a year from now? Probably not - but this is the potential buyers problem to pick out.
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