Stop Refund Requests Now - One Simple Method

I don't think I would buy a product unless it had a guarantee, even a short guarantee. Anything I buy on ebay or any products whether ebooks or not I like the fact it has a guarantee or that I can send it back just incase it isn't suited to me.

Plus it's hard to know who to trust these days - plus if there wasn't a guarantee, I had purchased through paypal and considered the product a rip-off or rubbish then I would still try for a refund...but the likelihood of me being buying something without a guarantee in the first place is very low.

Just curious, since you made the change, do you get a lot of people emailing you, asking if you offer some kind of refund, since they don't see it on the page?

Worth testing for sure.

In the UK, don't "distance selling" rules apply anyway?

Also, a person could instigate a chargeback.

Or, is the point you are making that there has been no initial reduction in sales, as opposed to not letting people have their money back.

Sam

Hi

I completelly agree with you about removing the guarantee.

This maybe give more confidence for the customers but is something
I really couldn't understand ( give a refund for something the customer will keep anyway ).

If I go for a shop and purchase a t-shirt and latter I see I don't like it
under the refund policy I could have my money back but will give the t-shirt back
to them will not keep it.

Now about a download (ebook,software etc) if they ask for a refund who can be sure they will delete it?

Now I think the problem is if we want to list our product in Clickbank we must offer the guarantee otherwise we are not allowed to list it with them.

I don't know about others (paydotcom,ejunkie etc) but with clickbank we have to do it.


Jorge

That's cool. I'm not sure how well this would work with more expensive products, though. I think the results might be different if you were selling a $97 product without the guarantee on the page. I know I would definitely hesitate to buy.

But it's definitely not a bad idea for low-cost products.

I currently sale a product for $17. I've never had any refunds though, so I haven't had any reason to take the guarantee off the page.

It bugs me knowing that some people will request refunds, and we can't take back the digital product they already have (I am refering to serial refunders, not someone who is genuinely disappointed in the product and not using it). But, that's just the way it is.

Look at retail, they expect what, a 10% theft or loss rate? That stinks too, but it is just the cost of doing business.

Matt

Usually in most developed countries there is a consumer protection law that lets the consumer get their money back and return the product withing a specific period of time if the product is purchased from the internet. There doesn't even have to be anything wrong with it.

One of the biggest myths out there is that guarantees always improve sales. I used to preach to myself until I tested it and found it's not always the case.

For the last six years I've sold expensive information courses (up to $800) through a website to a specific niche. I do not offer moneyback guarantees on any of the courses. I've probably had 2-3 requests total for refunds the last six years when I didn't offer a guarentee. If they seem to have a legit or resonable reason like an unforseen illness etc. for the request I'll usually give it to them. My objective isnt' to keep their money.

Twice I test money back guarentees. Yes I did sell a few more courses but I also got more refunds so the net result was actually the same or slightly lower than when I had no guarantee. Tt was also far more hassle.

Now I do go the extra mile in establishing a relationship with my prospects before the order through auto responders, other free information I give them, and inviting them to contact me with any specific questions they have, I dispel any doubts or questions they have before they order. In fact I tell them NOT to order unless they are serious and if they have any questions. If they have questions I encourage them to contact me BEFORE they order. Very few actually contact me but some do and I'm happy to answer they questions.

Obviously in order to get away with no guarantee, you must have a quality product.

For me this approach results in a very pleasant and positive relationship with all my customers, eliminates freebie seekers and people who just want to order with the idea of returning and works great for me.

RMX

Looks like he's got it covered.

I see my thread about Clickbank's refund policy was instantly deleted.

Strange!

One thing I've never understood is why it is that IMers feel not only is it necessary to have these obnoxiously LONG sales pages, but to also offer 60-day 100% refund guarantees for products that are totally opposite of what average consumers experience at retail stores today.

For example, most software is sold with a couple of very short pages that list features and benefits, and any software sold online is not refundable. Also, virtually every piece of commercial software you buy through a retailer will not give you a refund if you've opened the package -- you'll only get to swap it for another package of the same thing if the media is damaged.

If you try to do a chargeback on such a purchase, you're going to have to lie on the affidavit saying you didn't know about the purchase or didn't authorize it, because most retailers are very up-front about their no-return no-refund policy for software.

Bookstores will take back books as long as they're in resellable condition.

But you cannot return music CDs and DVDs anywhere.

So why is it that IMers seem to think that, in order to make sales online (that amount to a teeny tiny fraction of all retail sales of similar products), it's necessary to offer guarantees and refunds that aren't found ANYWHERE ELSE?

IMO, the notion of 'risk reversal' in the form of a guarantee is a marketing gimmick useful for new products or stuff that buyers might not be very familiar with.

That said, I've bought software that has a "no-refund / no-return" policy (which is what I'm used to) that I WAS able to get refunded. Why? Because in virtually every case, I sent pre-sales questions to the vendor or sales person that asked if the software did something that was not described in the sales literature, I was told it did, and it turned out it did NOT. The problem in the world of software is that the people who write the sales materials don't usually grasp the full breadth of what's there. So it's smart to ask questions first.

We in the IM world are more interested in cramming as many sales into as short a period of time as possible (with limited time or #sales offers), so the opportunity to ask pre-sales questions are virtually unheard of. Can you imagine going into a retail store and finding you cannot buy 99% of the products because they're either not on sale yet or you missed the sales window? In order to compensate for this, we use these silly guarantees.

But if there's NO limit on time or #sales (which is the case for virtually every product Clickbank offers), replace the guarantee with common sense and require people to ask questions FIRST if they have any. Nice idea, but why doesn't anybody do it?

I think people within the IM community are confusing the fact that we're setting our own increasingly unreasonable expectations in order to SELL stuff to others within the IM community with practices that are considered "usual and ordinary" in all other sales venues.

Outside of IM, nobody offers refunds for software purchases, audio CDs and video DVDs, among other things. Period.

Outside of IM, very few places offer up-front 30- or 60-day "no questions asked" 100% Refund Guarantees.

For the "average consumer", these are considered "usual and customary" practices. Who are WE to say they're unacceptable?

In most cases, Customer Service practices dictate what they'll do, not some hokey guarantee intended to increase sales conversions by a percent or two, at the likely expense of also increasing refund rates.

I think we need to pull our heads out of this stinking cesspool we call "IM" and spend a little more time observing how stuff is done in the "real world" a little more often, so as to keep our bearings.

My $0.02 worth.

There are markets where a guarantee can double or triple sales.

But every time I hear an IM "truism", I always check it against either the real marketers on the 'net or test it myself.

Guarantees aren't common among the real heavy hitters. Go look at the highest converting site on the entire 'net. Where is the guarantee? There actually is one, but it's not obvious and it's not on the order page. It is in fine print at the bottom of the page and is very ambiguous. They simply say that they are the very best and completely guarantee your satisfaction and complete the sentence with a factoid about their lowest priced item.

Go look at the richest company in the world's web-site. Where is their guarantee? They have very selective guarantees on a very small number of items.

When you hear retorts like "I would never buy a product without a guarantee", then you have heard the REAL value of not having a guarantee. You get rid of all of those whiny customers who want chat time via email or telephone. If you are tired of having the whiners for customers, try not having a guarantee.

In most markets, you will still have the same number of sales. Your quality of customer will just change... for the better.

If the highest converting web-site on the entire 'net doesn't have a guarantee... then maybe you don't need one either. In fact, maybe it is causing refund requests and extra work on your customer service staff because you are attracting the wrong kinds of customers.

we offer a guarantee because we can remotely turn of the software if they ask for a refund.

On a small priced digital product it probably wont make a difference

But the rule is always test it

I have never had a guarantee on my pages. Of course, if someone is not happy they can ask for a refund, but I've always thought that having an unconditional guarantee attracts a lot of con artists, so I don't put it on my pages.

Still I love your story and agree entirely with David. Sales are the same with or without the guarantee. Probably means that people don't care either and want to buy the product.

Isn't copywriting all about testing, and checking if the numbers are adding up?

We only need to observe the value of some of the approaches touted within the IM world that are now being severely frowned upon by the financial services we depend upon to process payments. Namely, the "Free+Shipping" entree's into forced continuity programs that are often stacked one on top of another.

Yeah, they work to get people in the door. And in the long-run, they're killing business.

Why not just stick to what people are familiar with and stop trying to leverage every possible trick to maximize sales?

Visa and Mastercard are not amused. Neither are all the folks who feel they're being taken advantage of, and who will probably not be buying much of anything online for quite a while. The sites that are responsible for all of these complaints ... used guarantees and risk reversal techniques to assure buyers there was "no problem".

Again, normal, run-of-the-mill businesses don't blatently offer "in your face" guarantees for anything just to get a sale.

That's what people are USED TO seeing. When you offer things people are not used to seeing, they get confused and more often than not, hesitate in making a purchase.

Given that most products are crap, I wouldn't buy anything that does not have a money back guarantee.

Are you going by the raw sales numbers or the actual conversion rate?


For someone that doesn't like long sales pages, you sure made a LONG post. :rolleyes:

In my testing, a guarantee doesn't make a lot of difference on low price point items, but get up to the $40-50 range and higher and it DOES make a difference in the conversion rate.

If you have your own merchant as I do you have to have a refund/return policy on your website, at least mine requires it. My refund rate is less than 1 percent, so I put my guarantee on most of my sales pages. There are only two products I don't guarantee. one is shareware so users can try it as long as they like before buying; and the other is my book, and I have to go by my publisher's policy on that.

There you go... get rid of your guarantee and you don't have to deal with customers like emigre.

Bonus!

Seriously emigre... do you demand a guarantee on your toilet paper? How about your food? Demand a guarantee from your landlord (I assume you aren't a homeowner with an attitude like that)?

If all products are crap, then I assume you live as a subsistence farmer out in the desert somewhere. How do you get your internet access? Did you demand a guarantee? When they went down for an hour, did you demand a refund?

I can assure you that not all products are crap. In fact, I can assure you that MOST products are not crap.

Going through life with such a negative attitude must be a horrible burden. But seriously... please NEVER buy anything from me.

I've been selling online since 2000. Only 2 people have asked me for a refund. And I offer a money-back guarantee. How did I do this? Simple. Overdeliver on value!

The way I see it is, if someone is buying to refund your product, he/she will try to do this with or without a guarantee. It will then depend on what you decide to do.

So you still have to offer customer support in both cases, even though in the latter it might be minimized. However it will not be completely eliminated.

Kevin

Emigre,

Too bad for you... I happen to have a corner on the toilet paper market.

You'll have to make your own from now on since all products are crap.

I do sell a lot of products.

I also buy a lot of products. I bought over a million dollars worth of products last year. I can't think of anything that I bought that was crap. I even bought some fertilizer which you might expect to be crap, but I'm pretty sure it was all synthetic.

I can assure you that not all products are crap. Not even most products are crap. That's just a fact. Most products are exactly what they claim to be and the purchasers (myself included) are very happy to trade money for them.

That includes toilet paper.

If even half of the population had your horrible attitude about the value of products, our civilation would probably collapse. Fortunately those with your negative attitude about the value of the average product are in the extreme minority.

Have fun making your own toilet paper and growing your own food. Or are the products you make for yourself also crap?

I sell others products as a affiliate and I had 2 refunds this month totaling over 80 bucks so that was not fun. Your idea sounds ok but some prefer to see a guarantee even if they are not going to use it.

You know, I just remembered something...I don't have to issue many refunds because very few ask for one, but I just remembered one time I had a person ask for a refund because they misunderstood what my product was about. I didn't even believe their story at the time, but I refunded the purchase anyway. About a week later this same person bought another product, and loved it. The kicker, the product she bought and kept was more expensive than the one she asked for a refund over.

Not everyone that asks for a refund is a fraud artist. Would you rather refund a customer and keep them happy, and have a chance to sell them something else, or have an unhappy customer who will never buy from you again and may urge others not to with their story of how you ripped them off? Because you know, if someone feels cheated, their story usually grows bigger as they tell it over and over, meaning you become a bigger and bigger villain.

Food for thought...

Hi Ken, I like your willingness to test whether widely promoted "best practices" are really best for your particular business. What I wonder is whether there are UK laws comparable to the FTC disclaimer rules that might mandate your discussion of a refund policy? Don't know what the official word is from across the pond but I'd hate to see your experiment get you in trouble.

Chris

I think visible guarantees are a waste of time. They are abused by a certain element. Just make your help easy to reach and weed out the genuine people, and offer them refunds if you cannot help them after several emails. Support and guidance is more helpful to them and cheaper for you.

Well,maybe it's an efficient way in dealing with refund.It's worthy to have a try.Thanks.

Hmmm my 02 cents. I use paypal for every transaction regardless of product or service.

Paypal does not give any refunds on digital products or services. so I don't offer a guarantee I go by the case by case basis if someone really bought the product or joined my sites and did not feel it was right for them or not what they expected i will most certainly go out of my way to bring customer satisfaction but I also would block their IP address so they did not make the same mistake again and so they could not download anymore I dealt with online sales with direct shipping and had only 1 person request a refund due to the lateness of the shipping even though they got the product they got a refund. but online anything No way jose unless there is a good reason you buy it- you keep it.
Being as I don't get my product back Um how is that right?
-WD

I agree with Don about the brick and mortar I offered a 1 yr warranty on any service call I performed and never had a refund rate one time though I had someone hire me to fix their computer so I go .

Computer is frapped mother board is not functioning giving error codes so no good.so I replace it for free only charged for the service call and cut him a deal to 25 bucks I could afford it so no big deal. 2 weeks later I get a knock at my door by the actual owner of the house this guy was living in turned out this fellow hired me to do a job for something that was not his and the original owner now was threatening to have me arrested of course by law I was not at fault but I tracked the computer down at value village where I dropped it off and got the info for him. Some of the strangest things happen in business.
-WD

I don't offer refunds and it hasn't harmed the business.

Refund requests are down and as a result more people are putting my advice into action.

I do get Paypal refund requests from time to time but Paypal has always sided with me.