Why Do People Talk and Write Like This?

[jennypitts]

Originally Posted by butters

If you are basing your findings on the news then you are seriously basing your feelings on a minority of teenagers. Am I supposed to look at the news and think, war mongering people who are bad with money and messed up the environment? No I don't, there are just as many bad adults out there as there are to kids.

Great point Kiddo!

[silvervixen]

Some of the swearing may work for some markets, but you'd have to test to know for sure if you were getting results. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say perhaps younger markets (ages 20-30) would find this appealing, but I could be totally wrong.

While not quite the same thing, it sort of follows the "in your face" type of advertising model that has become popular over the years.

Again, how effective it is, I don't know, but if someone wasn't making money with it, you probably wouldn't see it much at all.

[Dennis Gaskill]

Originally Posted by KimW

Maybe you aren't (its spelled foul) mouthed, but many of you are,and you have no respect for the people around you when you choose to be.

A large portion of you have zero respect for the law.Just read the news everyday.Thats one wahy of finding that out, the other is just everyday observation.

By the way, I have rasied 5 children, all of then are older than you, but close to your age.

Maybe you aren't (its spelled foul) mouthed <-- perhaps if you're going to correct people's spelling...

Just read the news everyday.Thats one wahy <-- you should make sure you haven't made any spelling mistakes.

Just a thought...

[discrat]

Originally Posted by WD Mino

Common for initials or not wtf is known throughout as what the#### sorry that makes no sense in reference to this context. just like ftw doesn't mean franklin tibadeu warner it means #### the world. online or offline

Well regardless of what you you might think it doesnt matter if those initials are known common around the World. I know my parents and many people over 50 do not know what 'wtf ' means in street talk. I would dare say hundreds of millions of people Worldwide DO NOT know what it means. THATS JUST FACT !!

And YES it does make sense and it is NOT out of context if that person's actual initials are indeed WTF !! You can talk blue in the face and turn somersaults in the air if thats your thing But you and I realize that there is a distinct possibility that the person's name has the initial WTF !!

Like i said DO NOT blind yourself with ASSUMPTIONS !!
Thats extremely dangerous and will not serve yourself well in the future .
End of story !!


P.S. I am so honest when I say this but what does 'ftw' mean ?? I am dead serious I never heard of it !

[jennypitts]

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Maybe you aren't (its spelled foul) mouthed <-- perhaps if you're going to correct people's spelling...

Just read the news everyday.Thats one wahy <-- you should make sure you haven't made any spelling mistakes.

Just a thought...

LOL!!! That means... Well, Anyway!

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by KimW

Since your only 19 I forgive your ignorance.
No, I do mean your generation. But that does not imply everyone,but it does imply a majority. And from my experience and the experience of many other adults, that statement as a generalization is quite accurate.

You don't disrespect everyone, but a good portion of you are very disrespectful

Maybe you aren't (its spelled foul) mouthed, but many of you are,and you have no respect for the people around you when you choose to be.

A large portion of you have zero respect for the law.Just read the news everyday.Thats one wahy of finding that out, the other is just everyday observation.

By the way, I have rasied 5 children, all of then are older than you, but close to your age.

Since I respect your opinion, Kim, I forgive your ignorance.

I think you're a bit older than me, but not ancient like some of the trees here at the forum.

Sad to say, I think you are way off the mark on this one. I would think someone who grew up in the 1960s or 1970s would "judge someone by the content of their character and not by the year they happened to be born in."

Also, what do you think the older generation said about kids in the mid- to late-1960s? That they were "all" drug addicted, anti-establishment weirdos who ought to get a haircut. Obviously, that wasn't a fair statement then, for the same reason yours is not a fair statement now.

Do I think younger folks are more disrespectful? In general, yes I do. However, I don't think it's because they ARE more disrespectful, I think it's my PERCEPTION that makes me think that, and not reality.

Please, sir, may I suggest that you be more careful in making negative assumptions about an entire generation, and look at people as individuals? I don't think that's too much to ask.

All the best,
Michael

[Blase]

Originally Posted by jazbo

Different generations, different takes on things.

jazbo,

I am not picking on you I really want to know.

So as far as your concerned it's OK?

[Dan C. Rinnert]

I think there is a difference between using actual curse words and letters. That is, there is a difference between using "What the ****?" in your content and "WTF?" I've heard plenty of people use the word "snafu" who are of the type not to use the f-word. Likewise with people who use "B.S." instead of saying "Bull****".

[Blase]

Originally Posted by discrat

Word of advice : Dont judge until you know the full story. WTF is the initials of my wife's cousin and it is actually common initials for many, many folks in the US !!!

Just to be clear, I understand WTF could be his initials, and
even it they are he knows what that means and I would bet
he is trying to be clever.

Seeing that is what got the whole subject going.

And unless you are not on any email lists you are getting emails
with subject lines that start with WTF!

Now either a lot of people have those initials for
a name or it means what I think it means in those emails.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

I think there is a difference between using actual curse words and letters. That is, there is a difference between using "What the ****?" in your content and "WTF?" I've heard plenty of people use the word "snafu" who are of the type not to use the f-word. Likewise with people who use "B.S." instead of saying "Bull****".

Good point, Dan. As far as I can recall, I have not heard anybody say "WTF" out loud. Perhaps I'm not "hip" and "with it" as I'd like to be. Dig? But it may also be that WTF hasn't been around long enough to enter the vernacular. Whereas, snafu (note it's not even all caps anymore), SOB, and BS can stand on their own as a step down from what they fully represent.

But, as we are talking about using WTF online, I would argue that when most peoplr see that, their mind reads it as three words, not three letters. I would also be willing to bet that the person writing it means it to stand for the words it represents, and not three letters, a la SOB.

Interesting discussion, but it always is when this topic comes up.

All the best,
Michael

[JaiJay]

Originally Posted by KimW

Since your only 19 I forgive your ignorance.
No, I do mean your generation. But that does not imply everyone,but it does imply a majority. And from my experience and the experience of many other adults, that statement as a generalization is quite accurate.

You don't disrespect everyone, but a good portion of you are very disrespectful

Maybe you aren't (its spelled foul) mouthed, but many of you are,and you have no respect for the people around you when you choose to be.

A large portion of you have zero respect for the law.Just read the news everyday.Thats one wahy of finding that out, the other is just everyday observation.

By the way, I have rasied 5 children, all of then are older than you, but close to your age.

Understood, but the exact same notion goes for many adults too. I am an adult so am also speaking from experience. Everyone has different views, it's what makes the world go round.

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by JaiJay

Not being a pro in this area I am struggling to think of a scenario where using profanity would actually forward you in your market?

I can think of one - products like rap albums and video games targeted at a young "urban" crowd, and the suburban white kids who like to pretend they're bad while driving their Mom's Toyota to the mall.

In fact, any product engineered to need a "parental discretion" warning...

@Michael - I would guess that a lot of people don't even realize that 'snafu' started as an acronym, just like omg, lol or... wtf.

[For the curious but lazy, SNAFU stands for "Situation Normal, All F***ed Up"]

[Blase]

Originally Posted by discrat

...many people over 50 do not know what 'wtf ' means in street talk. I would dare say hundreds of millions of people Worldwide DO NOT know what it means. THATS JUST FACT !!

LOL! I am 57 and I started this thread and I know very
well what it means. I just asked my wife and she knew
what it meant.

I knew what FTW meant also.
I know what RTFM meant also.

But I still don't like it.

[Dan C. Rinnert]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Good point, Dan. As far as I can recall, I have not heard anybody say "WTF" out loud. Perhaps I'm not "hip" and "with it" as I'd like to be. Dig? But it may also be that WTF hasn't been around long enough to enter the vernacular. Whereas, snafu (note it's not even all caps anymore), SOB, and BS can stand on their own as a step down from what they fully represent.

On the flip side, we can also choose what we hear in our minds. I hear "What the Frak?" ;-)

I don't know that I'd use either in my marketing, but in marketing I receive, I wouldn't be offended by "WTF" whereas I might be off-put if they spelled out exactly what they meant.

Assuming, of course, they didn't mean "Frak". (Or food, flood, famine, feast, flowchart, etc.)

Hmmm... That's one I missed earlier. WHAT THE FLOWCHART is that!? I think that's what I'll choose to hear in my head from now on.

[butters]

Think about it, a good play on words of WTF, FTW etc... could make good email headers, something to think about . Specially if your audience is a younger generation.

[webber1]

becoz they are lazy gits!! lol

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

On the flip side, we can also choose what we hear in our minds. I hear "What the Frak?" ;-)

I don't know that I'd use either in my marketing, but in marketing I receive, I wouldn't be offended by "WTF" whereas I might be off-put if they spelled out exactly what they meant.

Assuming, of course, they didn't mean "Frak". (Or food, flood, famine, feast, flowchart, etc.)

Hmmm... That's one I missed earlier. WHAT THE FLOWCHART is that!? I think that's what I'll choose to hear in my head from now on.

I appreciate that you are giving the masses so much credit.

It's funny that you bring that up, because I DO hear it as "what the fudge?" and I have been known to type "WTH", but I mean "what the heck?" when I do.

But let's be honest, most people who write WTF mean it to stand for cursing.

Your point about not being offended by WTF, is a good one. Heck, I don't seem to have any problem typing it. But I would use lots of different symbols if I had to spell it out.

~Michael

[SuiteJ]

I personally don't use F-bombs or anything worse than BS in my writing, but I'm not offended at all by someone writing the word F*** unless it's used directly to offend me personally.

For instance,
If I read a product review that went something like this:
"That Metallica DVD rocked my f****** socks off!"
I'm not offended

If you sent me an email saying:
"Jay, you're a big f****** jerk"
Now, I might be offended, but still depends on the context and tone. lol

"WTF?" definitely does not offend me at all and I don't even consider it a curse. You are reading it to yourself in your head (unless you read everything out loud), so you don't really have to say "F***" to yourself if it bothers you. Say "Double Ewe Tee Eff" or replace "F" it with "Fudge".

Try it! Seriously! WTF?

I guess my point is that what matters to me most is the context and how it's being delivered.

When I watch Gary Vaynerchuk keynotes and he drops F-Bombs inside his crazy passionate delivery, I'm not even remotely offended. In fact, I'm relieved by the fact that he's willing to be himself. (btw, the same goes for being yourself if you don't like to curse).

Transparency and being genuine goes a long way, even if you drop a few bad words.

Another great example is Jimmy Vee and Travis Miller with their "WTF?" episodes:
Twitter Vs. Facebook -- WTF? Episode#51 - Gravitational Marketing Blog - Small Business Marketing | Gravitational Marketing

I can't imagine anyone being offended by those videos, even though they're based on that "dirty acronym"!

[jasonmorgan]

OMFG!

How about writing to reach your audience.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

OMFG!

How about writing to reach your audience.

How about it?

That's already been discussed here.

Just wondering what you were adding to the thread?

~Michael

[Blase]

Originally Posted by jasonmorgan

OMFG!

How about writing to reach your audience.

I'll bet you can reach your audience and more
by not swearing or using abbreviations.

[Blase]

Originally Posted by SuiteJ

Another great example is Jimmy Vee and Travis Miller with their "WTF?" episodes:
Twitter Vs. Facebook -- WTF? Episode#51 - Gravitational Marketing Blog - Small Business Marketing | Gravitational Marketing

I unsubscribed from their list because of that title.

[discrat]

Originally Posted by KimW

Since your only 19 I forgive your ignorance.
No, I do mean your generation. But that does not imply everyone,but it does imply a majority. And from my experience and the experience of many other adults, that statement as a generalization is quite accurate.

You don't disrespect everyone, but a good portion of you are very disrespectful

Maybe you aren't (its spelled foul) mouthed, but many of you are,and you have no respect for the people around you when you choose to be.

A large portion of you have zero respect for the law.Just read the news everyday.Thats one wahy of finding that out, the other is just everyday observation.

By the way, I have rasied 5 children, all of then are older than you, but close to your age.

Gimme a break !!
Why is it that when a person gets older all of the sudden his Generation is just so squeaky clean and the current one has gone down the tube into purgatory ? This has been a continuing theme throughout American history.

The fact is I am in my 40s and I remember being a part of the Metal Head group way back in the early and mid eighties. We were frowned upon and we smoked drugs and drank hard liquor and committed vandalism on a weekly basis. Shoot, I was in a Private College Prep school in the 80s and there was so much Cocaine addicts in my class it was not even funny. Much much more than there are in the high schools today.

And from the sounds of it you grew up in the 70s and late 60s. Well my friend there were so many LCD induced sex parties going on in that time ; much more than now. All in the name of Rock and Roll and Free Love ! And who could forget the Crime committed by your generations prime gene pool when they sliced open an Actresses Stomach to retrieve a fetus because a guy named Manson told them to do so.

My parents grew up in the forties and fifties. Do you think their generation was without vices ? Well, when you do not let a person drink from the same water fountain just based on your skin color and hang someone from a tree for having different color skin....well then I say a resounding NO !!!

The fact of the matter is this Generation today is no different than ours. There are a few bad apples just like we had, no doubt.

But to say the Majority are bad is complete and utter NONSENSE !!

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by KimW

Since your only 19 I forgive your ignorance.
No, I do mean your generation. But that does not imply everyone,but it does imply a majority. And from my experience and the experience of many other adults, that statement as a generalization is quite accurate.

You don't disrespect everyone, but a good portion of you are very disrespectful

Maybe you aren't (its spelled foul) mouthed, but many of you are,and you have no respect for the people around you when you choose to be.

A large portion of you have zero respect for the law.Just read the news everyday.Thats one wahy of finding that out, the other is just everyday observation.

By the way, I have rasied 5 children, all of then are older than you, but close to your age.

Am I the only one who sees the irony here?

[DougHughes]

I agree, the rudeness and profanity is offensive and won't get you far.

Funny, just today I had a warrior from this forum (i'll leave his name out) opt-in to one of my lists and put down "Dick Breath" as his first and last name.

Really? Is that the way you are going to treat someone who's giving you free stuff?

Hopefully I'll bump into him at a convention sometime so I can give him a little chat about manners.

[Blase]

Originally Posted by DougHughes

I agree, the rudeness and profanity is offensive and won't get you far.

Funny, just today I had a warrior from this forum (i'll leave his name out) opt-in to one of my lists and put down "Dick Breath" as his first and last name.

Really? Is that the way you are going to treat someone who's giving you free stuff?

Hopefully I'll bump into him at a convention sometime so I can give him a little chat about manners.

Bring mints to that meeting.

[bizfox]

It's more like internet meme talk. like lolcats.

[bizfox]

Nice I like it. What's missing is a search box

[Don Schenk]

I saw a young lady who happened to be carrying a hot pink purse with large-letter f-bombs written all over it in different fonts in black.

I couldn't figure out if it was her take on life, or an open invitation!

:-Don

[Victoria Neely]

I guess profanity doesn't have the same shock value anymore. I don't lift an eyebrow when I read or hear it on occasion. Sometimes it's even amusing.

However, if someone is littering their speech or writing with certain four-letter-words, it grates me. Some people may be drawn to gutter speech, but using profanity too much can alienate all the folks who find it lazy, unimaginative, and inconsiderate. It's obnoxious almost in the same sense as overusing an exclamation point. It's useful for emphasizing a point, but it makes you look hyper or unstable if you keep ending your sentences with !!!

On the "young generation" thing: I thought most teenagers were obnoxious even when *I* was a teenager, though that was less than ten years ago. On the other hand, I've also known a few teens who were more mature and articulate than some adults.

PS: I see "FTW" a lot in some web comic circles, and it always seems to be used in the "For the Win" context.

[Dennis Gaskill]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Am I the only one who sees the irony here?

I didn't notice it until you pointed it out. I did notice a little irony about stereotyping. Did you catch that one, Michael?

[honestbizpro]

Originally Posted by Matt Maiden

The only car sales person to be inducted into the Automotive Hall Of Fame Joe Girard as the "World's Greatest Salesperson" has 13 rules to success and number 4 is:

4.No smoking or chewing tobacco, no gum, no colognes, no profanity, no dirty jokes, no alcohol breath, and men do not wear earrings when you are working. Turn off cell phones - they're irritating. The biggest killer of them all is NOT BEING ON TIME.

Matt

No colognes? I do not see body odor on the list!

[DougHughes]

Originally Posted by Blase

Bring mints to that meeting.

Haha...good idea Blase.

[fitz10]

Originally Posted by Don Schenk

I saw a young lady who happened to be carrying a hot pink purse with large-letter f-bombs written all over it in different fonts in black.

I couldn't figure out if it was her take on life, or an open invitation!

:-Don

This was probably the brand FCUK, which is French Connection UK. Then again, it could have been the real thing as I've seen plenty of girls with clothing and accessories with the "b word" on them.

It's been said a million times before, but I hardly think swearing is a generational problem. I know plenty of people far older than myself (and I'm not even young!) who use terrible language, even in business situations..

[discrat]

Originally Posted by Blase

LOL! I am 57 and I started this thread and I know very
well what it means. I just asked my wife and she knew
what it meant.

I knew what FTW meant also.
I know what RTFM meant also.

But I still don't like it.

Yeah I am 42 and I still dont know what FTW and RTFM mean !!
I think this alone proves my point and why you cant make assumptions that everyone knows something just because you and your wife know it !!

[KimW]

The OP asked a question.
I gave a valid answer.


By the way, there is a difference between mispelling something and making a typo.
If you look at the letter on the keyboard and notice the discrepancy.

Bring it on.

[discrat]

Originally Posted by KimW

The OP asked a question.
I gave a valid answer.


By the way, there is a difference between mispelling something and making a typo.
If you look at the letter on the keyboard and notice the discrepancy.

Bring it on.

Actually, there is really no difference !! Both are equally bad. One says that you are ignorant while the other portrays someone who has a degree of sloppiness and does not take pride in their abilities to communicate in a proper and legible way !!

[Dennis Gaskill]

Originally Posted by KimW

The OP asked a question.
I gave a valid answer.


By the way, there is a difference between mispelling something and making a typo.
If you look at the letter on the keyboard and notice the discrepancy.

Bring it on.

Bring it on? No need to, you're doing yourself a big enough disservice.

[KimW]

Originally Posted by discrat

Actually there is really no difference !! Both are equally bad. One says that you are ignorant while the other says you do not take pride in yourself or your abilities to communicate in a proper and legible way !!

No, actually one says you have had 4 surgeries and several shots into the eyeballs that still hasn't corrected the problem.

[KimW]

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Bring it on? No need to, you're doing yourself a big enough disservice.

My goodness, aren't we touchy.

[Michael Oksa]

Originally Posted by discrat

Actually there is really no difference !! Both are equally bad. One says that you are ignorant while the other says you do not take pride in yourself or your abilities to communicate in a proper and legible way !!

I spotted four mistakes in your first sentence. I normally wouldn't point them out, but I just had to ask if it was due to lack of pride or ignorance?

Incorrect
Actually there is really no difference !!

Correct
Actually, there really is no difference!



Sorry, I tried to resist, but just couldn't seem to do it.

~Michael

p.s. Kim, what about the bigger issue of condemning the bulk of an entire generation? As mentioned, young people in the 1960s were certainly not all drug-using, anti-establishment draft dodgers that didn't respect their elders, or were they?

[discrat]

We all need some correction Michael every now and then. Me included
Honestly, I saw that but decided to not go back and put that comma in !!

***Edited what I wrote earlier

[Dennis Gaskill]

Originally Posted by KimW

My goodness, aren't we touchy.

Hmm...no, I don't think so. I just responded to your invitation. I did assume it was aimed at me since the prior part of your comment was. Was that an incorrect assumption?

Besides, I would suggest your "bring it on" comment was the touchy one.

[Marian Berghes]

I do think that it works for some people, and I do think that it helps you better connect to your target audience, IF you have established that they are ok with it.

One thing that I learned very early in IM and at college where I also study marketing, is that you should never try and sell/write/advertise to "as many as possible". If cursing (so-so or heavily) makes you connect better with your IDEAL customer, then you act like the person that your ideal customer would actually like.

And in relation to that is that you should always try to be on one side of the fence or the other, ex: serious/corporate like business and fun/tv-show like business. (don't know if thats actually how you would translate it).

And there are people having success with both of these, ex: Jay Abraham and Vayner Media...have you heard how much Gary V. curses? and yet people pay him tens of thousands of dollars to speak at seminars.

[KimW]

"p.s. Kim, what about the bigger issue of condemning the bulk of an entire generation? As mentioned, young people in the 1960s were certainly not all drug-using, anti-establishment draft dodgers that didn't respect their elders, or were they? "

Well Michael,to be honest I am actually surprised you took away that interpetation.
I said we raised a generation with certain characteristics that the OP asked about.
If I had meant every single individual I would have said that.
I also stated that I had raised 5 kids. My kids did not grow up with those characteristics.

Its funny how these threads go,and what people participating will pick up and run with.
At another point someone tried to make it sound like I said I got all my information from the news.
Thats absurd.

Now move on to something important.
Are you taking the online test right now?

[KimW]

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Hmm...no, I don't think so. I just responded to your invitation. I did assume it was aimed at me since the prior part of your comment was. Was that an incorrect assumption?

Besides, I would suggest your "bring it on" comment was the touchy one.

Actually, no it wasn't aimed at you.
when I got back and read the thread, I have been out most of the day, I saw numerous erroneous statements.
I had considered quoting every one and answering that way,but then changed my mind.
But I did know that once I answered there would be discussion in the thread again, so I said bring it on as a general statement.

[butters]

Kimw, this could all be solved and this post could get back on topic if you just admit you was wrong to condemn a generation and say sorry. Then we can all move on and let this post get back to what it was.

(If there is a typo/misspelling in there, I don't care...)

[Dennis Gaskill]

Originally Posted by KimW

Actually, no it wasn't aimed at you.
when I got back and read the thread, I have been out most of the day, I saw numerous erroneous statements.
I had considered quoting every one and answering that way,but then changed my mind.
But I did know that once I answered there would be discussion in the thread again, so I said bring it on as a general statement.

Fair enough, no problem. I'm sure you can see why I took it as being directed at me though.

[808glass]

Welcome to the Internet...

It was built by geeks and gamers, we love acronyms and 1337 speak, makes us feel important. n00b's FTW rotf lmao

[KimW]

Of course I am 1337!
I mean come on, I know what WTF and FTW means, along with RTFM, at least when they used to include the FM.