Why Do People Talk and Write Like This?

[Troy_Phillips]

I coach several different youth sports teams and have to say that most of my kids are respectful with their language and attitude .

You can fool the coach by toning down your language but attitude is harder to conceal.

Being a son of the south, I guess I could have a different ( if not limited) view on the use of four letter words in advertising or in discussion in general .

By the way ... any Harley rider worth their weight in leather know ftw means feel the wind :-)

Now don't induct me into sainthood just yet .

While I do not make it a common practice , push me far enough and I have no problem telling you to kiss my hillbilly a$$

[Greg guitar]

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Greg, let's tackle this one first...



You perhaps missed a few words.



and



Now you're making my point for me. No one in the field challenges the truism because to do so is almost heresy.

I don't question that one could find violent criminals with violent pasts. I would wager you could also find violent criminals with idyllic pasts. Violent actions have been blamed on abusive parents, permissive parents, absentee parents, rap music, and even video games.

About the only thing not blamed for violent crime is the existence of violent criminals.

One final thought...

Are you serious when you say that because you don't accept my points, it's time for me to agree with you? I think we've pretty much beaten the life out of this particular horse...

I'm not serious when I say that, because I don't say that. I clearly stated that "if you can't refute what I actually said, maybe it's time to agree"-how you got "because I don't accept your points" out of that is beyond me. If I couldn't refute someone's actual words, and was tempted instead to debunk claims he never made, I might start thinking he has a point.

Asking if I'm serious when I say something I never said is another red herring.

The suggestion that it's time to agree was a response to your facetious (I didn't know I had to explain that I got that it was facetious-seems pretty obvious) suggestion about locking victims of abuse up if "the connection was that cut and dried" which, you go on to explain, it isn't. A red herring, because I never suggested the connection was so "cut and dried" that one could predict that every abused child would later become a violent offender. That's absurd, and I didn't miss any words.

While most violent offenders whose pasts have become known were victims of violence, concluding that therefore, all or most victims of violence will become offenders would be the height of sloppy thinking.

The fact that it's possible to posit the unlikely case of a violent offender that had an idyllic childhood, neither proves or disproves anything-now if you started to find that a significant percent of offenders had an idyllic childhood, that would be worth bringing up. Influences and risk factors generally aren't absolute, but they exist.

"No one in the field challenges the truism because to do so is almost heresy"? Are you kidding me? Assuming for a moment that such an absurd statement were true, what force running through the years would make sure everyone upheld the orthodoxy? None of course, and there is nothing to stop anyone from debunking the connection. It hasn't been debunked because the evidence supporting it is so strong. As you admit, there have been many alternate suggestions as to background factors leading to violent crime, like video games, etc; nobody seems afraid of being called a heretic. Most theories have gained little or no traction for lack of supporting evidence. Not so with the abusive past connection-the evidence is overwhelming-the real reason almost everyone agrees on it. It has nothing to do with "heresy".

[DirectoryKing]

LoL. He could have mean't something else.

[MichaelHiles]

This thread = people who should be working on their business

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

This thread = people who should be working on their business

Agreed...

Greg, it's been fun, but we've reached the point where it's best for all concerned to shake hands and go our separate ways, at least on this subject.

Thanks for the nudge, Mike.

[Greg guitar]

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Agreed...

Greg, it's been fun, but we've reached the point where it's best for all concerned to shake hands and go our separate ways, at least on this subject.

Thanks for the nudge, Mike.

Fair enough-consider your hand shook-but that's as far as I go on a first argument

[JayXtreme]

Has anyone stopped to consider the possibility that profanity and the use of it may be neither damaging or enhancing of the credibility of the user?

It doesn't have to go one way or the other.. if it is simply accepted in the context.

Just Sayin'

Peace

Jay

[dsmpublishing]

Hi guys

i notice it quite a lot these days especially it spam emails.

a lot of us are better than this but there will always be the tiny few that think they can get away with it.

I just ignore them and would never buy their products thats for sure.

kind regards


sam
X

[molsted]

Originally Posted by MichaelHiles

This thread = people who should be working on their business

Well said! LOL

Personally, I cannot understand - in my wildest imagination - why people get offended because someone is using a word like WTF?

Maybe it has something to do with cultural differences or something ( I am european and must say that I have noticed that Americans often times seem to have a different view on a few things ) but how someone can be offended because of someone writing WTF in a mail or something is beyond my understanding (and I am well educated. He he).

Unless someone you do not know (or know for that matters!!) is telling you to go F*** your Moms A** because you didn't buy their product... I really do not understand why this thread has grown to 6 pages (probably because people are posting just like I do).

Educated me, please!

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by molsted

Well said! LOL

Personally, I cannot understand - in my wildest imagination - why people get offended because someone is using a word like WTF?

Maybe it has something to do with cultural differences or something ( I am european and must say that I have noticed that Americans often times seem to have a different view on a few things ) but how someone can be offended because of someone writing WTF in a mail or something is beyond my understanding (and I am well educated. He he).

Unless someone you do not know (or know for that matters!!) is telling you to go F*** your Moms A** because you didn't buy their product... I really do not understand why this thread has grown to 6 pages (probably because people are posting just like I do).

Educated me, please!

Martin, that's an excellent point. One of my favorite shows is Gordon Ramsey's "Kitchen Nightmares" and I'm struck by the difference in how much of his language is censored in the US and UK versions of the show.

Phrases which are routinely allowed on BBC are bleeped out on Fox TV here. It's gotten almost comical. At first, the censors would bleep the words they didn't like. Then someone complained that you could still read their lips and tell what they were saying. Now, you still get the bleep and you also get a little blob or pixelation over the speaker's mouth so you can't read lips.

[poker princess]

Originally Posted by Michael Silvester

Hi Mate,

You bring up a really good question. But WTF does WTF mean anyway?

Sorry, I couldnt help myself.

Take Care,

Michael Silvester

lol !!!!!!!!
Seriously this has to be stopped at some point of time....

[molsted]

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Martin, that's an excellent point. One of my favorite shows is Gordon Ramsey's "Kitchen Nightmares" and I'm struck by the difference in how much of his language is censored in the US and UK versions of the show.

Phrases which are routinely allowed on BBC are bleeped out on Fox TV here. It's gotten almost comical. At first, the censors would bleep the words they didn't like. Then someone complained that you could still read their lips and tell what they were saying. Now, you still get the bleep and you also get a little blob or pixelation over the speaker's mouth so you can't read lips.

LOL - that's just hilarious. In Scandinavia we don't have any of this kind of censorship. Yet.

[numba8]

People in general are becoming desensitized to swears words and a bunch of other socially taboo things. Just take a stroll through youtube and read some of the comments on the videos. you'll see every racist, sexist, homophobic, politically incorrect comment you have have heard of, and some you haven't. People hide behind their computers and there virtual identities. It's sad, but all you can do is just behave the way you feel is appropriate, and teach your children to do the same.

[grayambition]

First of all, everyone knows that rtfm means "read the FRIENDLY manual," so I have absolutely no idea what y'all are going on about.

And I find this generational warfare b***s**t rather amusing. I'm 61 (in 2 weeks), and I thought we did away with that in the 60's. C'mon people, let's not paint any generation with a broad brush.

But now it's my turn to generalize. In my experience, today's kiddies are generally a sweet, smart, self-confident bunch, certainly more self-confident than most of us were. (By kiddies, I'm talking about teens through about 30). When I worked as a tech writer,most of the developers were in their early 20's. One of them changed his hair color every week, was full of piercings and tattoos, and dressed in full goth gear. He was probably the cutest, sweetest, shyest young man I've ever met.

The difference I see with *some* young people is simply that they're not intimidated by authority. When I was a kid, we may have wanted to mouth off but were often too cowed to do it. I didn't have the best attitude as a teenager, but I wouldn't have dared to talk back to a teacher, to get up and move around a classroom, or show blatant disrespect to most adult authority figures. I'm not sure that was such a good thing.

Now, as far as swearing in IM. Personally, it doesn't bother me. I don't give a **** how anyone talks as long as they're not hurling curse words at me, and I've been known to swear a bit myself. Um, maybe more than a bit.

But. Not in front of my grandmother. And not in front of massage clients unless I've gotten to know them really well. And not at a job or client interview.

Unless you're purposely going for a particular effect, I don't think swearing has any place in professional communication. I know enough people who are offended by "off-color" language (young, old and in the middle) to realize that cursing's probably not a smart move if I want to be listened to.

I just came across a blog post from Joel Comm that's right in sync with this discussion:

Professional Speakers Cursing From the Stage

Bottom line for me: True communication is difficult, and language is important. Whether it's fair or not, people judge us by the language we use. If you're going to swear in your marketing materials or webinars, just be sure you're doing it for conscious effect, and be aware that you may be turning off a portion of your audience. Oh good grief, I'm starting to lecture now. I'll stop.

[roxstar]

Originally Posted by grayambition

But now it's my turn to generalize. In my experience, today's kiddies are generally a sweet, smart, self-confident bunch, certainly more self-confident than most of us were. (By kiddies, I'm talking about teens through about 30). When I worked as a tech writer,most of the developers were in their early 20's.

Really? I find that pretty interesting. I'm 16 and you've hit the nail on the head =p

Originally Posted by grayambition

The difference I see with *some* young people is simply that they're not intimidated by authority. When I was a kid, we may have wanted to mouth off but were often too cowed to do it. I didn't have the best attitude as a teenager, but I wouldn't have dared to talk back to a teacher, to get up and move around a classroom, or show blatant disrespect to most adult authority figures. I'm not sure that was such a good thing.

I don't show disrespect to my parents unless they've crossed lines, for obvious reasons. I mean, they're my parents, and I love them and I should respect them. However if they're making me do something I'm uncomfortable with or keep yelling at me then I start talking back...

And I have talked back to teachers before. They don't do anything -.-' They usually just get pissed off and sit in their chairs.

As for the swearing and "WTF". I don't get how that's offensive. I think that if they own it, and it fits their personality or the effect they're trying to drive home then go ahead and do it. I don't swear every sentence, but when I'm hanging out and stuff it comes in every few sentences.

I know people who literally swear in every sentence, and one person who swears usually twice per sentence. I think that is overkill. It's part of culture now, and eventually it will just die down and because the norm. We're the next generation, so we're going to have to lead at some point and that's turning towards a more open society.

Now I'm getting a little philosophical so I'll stop there, but it is true...

-Kris

[P.Sharma]

WTF : Want that Ferrari.............;-)

I personally want a bugati so I would say : WTB

P.S : WTB is not want to buy

[Deepak Media]

The F word has got some unusual popularity recently mainly due to media. But F word is not english originally, as far as I know, its a german word which means to strike or hit. But now it means everything!

[Robert Puddy]

Originally Posted by TheDebtEliminator

There are a few that insist on used profanity in sales

They are limiting their market

Best to leave it alone and make more sales

Cheers

Best to be yourself... warts and all

Atract the people that like you for what you are... profanity included

The rest can all go away if they dont like it. Trying to be Mr average in marketing is a mistake. Polarise your audience into love you and hate you sections.

[Anonymous Affiliate]

Originally Posted by Blase

You will never know it, but I guarantee you are losing sales by going into the gutter with your words.

It depends on your target market: think of rap songs where you almost HAVE TO swear. Also, it depends on the persona you want to portray: think of Frank Kern, who swears every second sentence and no one minds.

There is no right or wrong in marketing, as long as it fits your target audience.

[Anonymous Affiliate]

Originally Posted by P.Sharma

WTF : Want that Ferrari.............;-)

I personally want a bugati so I would say : WTB

P.S : WTB is not want to buy

I'm more into WAAM: Want An Aston Martin

[butters]

Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate

think of Frank Kern, who swears every second sentence and no one minds.

A huge exaggeration there...

[Christie Love]

There are some people with a very limited vocabulary. For the emotions they can't find words for... they cuss.

Hint: The dictionary has always been a powerful resource for instances where you are at a loss for words.

[magentawave]

Like it said in a hilarious episode of the show Modern Family; WTF means "why the face" -- and whats wrong with that?

Steve

[eric w]

Using profanity is bad..it's nothing but verbal violence.

Hey John Mccabe..was lenny before richard pryor?

Doesn't wtf mean....wooooah,too fast

or maybe... we'll talk friday.....how about...who took first?....even...willena told freddy..

and...walleye, tilapia, flounder......also....wait, take five.....let's include...will tonia

finish?....try.....wow, ted farted

i think i'm going to start another thread on who can give the best alternative meanings to wtf..no bad meanings allowed, of course

[Slin]

Whoa, my generation?

ummm just want to point out that most pg13 movies from the 70's and 80's swear more then the latest movies.

Don't believe me? Go back and watch classics like ferris bueller's day off or back to the future, both are great movies, but they swear more then any classics of today.

I come from a family that has absolutely no profanity, i've never heard any of my relatives swear (except gramps, and to be fair he's 76 years old and had just cut his finger)

I was always raised to believe that it was a sign of an uncreative mind.

I don't mind it if other people swear, but if you use it in advertising I will not purchase from you, I find it unprofessional and redundant.

That being said, obviously it grabs attention

(Note: I don't really mind acronyms though, I don't know why that is though..)

[scubasteve-cr]

*shrug* maybe you're just getting old?

[guruslasher]

Originally Posted by Blase

Hi,

This is not so much a rant as it is a question.

I was just looking around in the WSO's and noticed
a Warrior that is using "WTF" as his user name.

Did I miss the memo?

When did it become OK, to use swear words
in copy, email subject lines, user names, and at the
table next to me in restaurants?

How and why did this become cool?

Unless you are face to face with some one and know
them very well what makes you think that swearing is OK?

I've been in sales and marketing for for 46 years
and I have always lived by, "when in doubt, don't".

That applies to everything you do, write, or say.

You will never know it, but I guarantee you are losing
sales by going into the gutter with your words.

Just something to think about.

Rich Jerk helped to make profanity-filled sales letters cool. It was gimmicky and made him, well, rich!

[John Durham]

Generation x is defining the business world today, they call the shots. Jason Moffat proves to me that people embrace authenticity these days over someone being pretentious in the name of good manners. Money is more important than a pat on the back to them. I think they are telling it like it is because there's no pretty way to say you have to have BALLS if you want to succeed!

Another reason why it is more acceptable is because they aren't going out knocking door to door... they are instead having customers come them them in many cases. So most IMr's work on their own terms and they have nothing to lose by just being themselves.

This whole IM revolution is about individuals saying "Screw the man... I'm not a slave... I can do this on my own"! So it's a little rebellious just daring to "BE" an entrepreneur. I guess a little attitude comes with the territory sometimes!

[Landis]

Who cares if people curse? I sure dont, sure its an annoying habit and I have other habits that are less than desirable to others and Im sure you all do too. Dont judge lest you be judged.

[keyaziz]

Although I dislike swearing myself I can tolerate it.

I also agree with what Stephen Fry said:

"The sort of twee person who thinks swearing is in any way a sign of a lack of education or of a lack of verbal interest is just a ****ing loonatic".

[PaulaC]

Originally Posted by kbrockm

I was ad a real brick-and-mortar job once where a co-worker was writing documentation for some new software the team had produced. In it he put the term "RTFM" (which refers to reading the manual, for those who may not know!). He was fired immediately upon his boss reading it.

That reminds me of a co-worker in my old 9 to 5 job who would use the term F/U. For him it meant "follow-up". But for others it meant something entirely different.

[John Wilkes]

Two of my favourites quotes:

"Mac users swear by their computers. PC users swear at their computers.”
&
“You never really learn to swear until you learn to drive”

[Ken Strong]

WTF are people dredging up a five-month old thread?