Why Do People Talk and Write Like This?

[Blase]

Hi,

This is not so much a rant as it is a question.

I was just looking around in the WSO's and noticed
a Warrior that is using "WTF" as his user name.

Did I miss the memo?

When did it become OK, to use swear words
in copy, email subject lines, user names, and at the
table next to me in restaurants?

How and why did this become cool?

Unless you are face to face with some one and know
them very well what makes you think that swearing is OK?

I've been in sales and marketing for for 46 years
and I have always lived by, "when in doubt, don't".

That applies to everything you do, write, or say.

You will never know it, but I guarantee you are losing
sales by going into the gutter with your words.

Just something to think about.

[Michael Silvester]

Hi Mate,

You bring up a really good question. But WTF does WTF mean anyway?

Sorry, I couldnt help myself.

Take Care,

Michael Silvester

[Gene Pimentel]

William Thomas Furguson will not be pleased with this. LOL

[KimW]

I'm actually surprised you have to ask.
We have raised a generation that its ok to be disrespectful and say anything and everything without any consequences.

A prime place to see this is to read comments at Youtube,a company owned by Google.

[Matt Maiden]

The only car sales person to be inducted into the Automotive Hall Of Fame Joe Girard as the "World's Greatest Salesperson" has 13 rules to success and number 4 is:

4.No smoking or chewing tobacco, no gum, no colognes, no profanity, no dirty jokes, no alcohol breath, and men do not wear earrings when you are working. Turn off cell phones - they're irritating. The biggest killer of them all is NOT BEING ON TIME.

Matt

[Scott Ames]

I know what you mean. There are some that actually design a personality around it and it works for them. Often I wonder if they lose sales.

See this thread:

Do you curse in your products?

[Blase]

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

William Thomas Furguson will not be pleased with this. LOL

Hey Gene, LOL! That must be it.

[JaiJay]

I completely agree. There are always people that I overhear in conversations who use a swear word as every other word. I just think to myself that they must not be a very interesting person if they have to buff up their sentences with words such as this.

[Blase]

Originally Posted by KimW

I'm actually surprised you have to ask.
We have raised a generation that its ok to be disrespectful and say anything and everything without any consequences.

How sad is that.

[Kay King]

They THINK it works for them - but I wonder how many have actually tested it.

They THINK is it is an attention getter - but what kind of attention? Sometimes it may attract a certain target market but may lose a potentially larger market.

My reaction to the use of profanity in marketing copy is to assume the person has a weak grasp of the language and a limited vocabulary. Online (with the exception of RJ whose copy I never liked anyway) the use seems to have originated with very young marketers - but as in the offline world it then becomes common and spreads to others.

I'm not referring to the occasional profanity used in otherwise informative content or email - but some of these people make the profanity their "look at me" hook. It's funny that even with the wide use of the same few curse words - people still think they are being unique in saying those few words.

Using WTF as a user name tells me that's not someone serious about being on an IM forum or doing much of anything. But recently I've seen quite a few user names that made me feel that way about the user - and they weren't even "bad words", just ridiculous.

kay

[JohnMcCabe]

Maybe I'm dating myself yet again, but does anyone else remember Lenny Bruce, the comic? He was the first to become famous for 'working blue', using profanity and other naughty words in his stand-up act.

Among today's up-and-comers, Lenny would be lost in the crowd. Somehow the idea that using four letter words, both what I grew up with as "cussing" and labels for genitalia, makes them "edgy" got a toehold.

Yet if you look at the top sellers in the market, you'll notice that, for the most part, they work pretty clean. A little racy sometimes, but they don't usually use words you'd be embarrassed to explain to your kids or your grandmother.

Do I sometimes let a curse word in? Yes, but it's usually pretty mild. Usually, if I do, it's in a medium like this where what i type is pretty much what I'd say of we were face to face.

[MissTerraK]

I personally cringe when I read those and refuse to click on the title to read more!

So what if I'm showing my age...I am a grama after all!

MissTerraK

[KimW]

John,
I certainly remember Lenny. And you're right, he would be lost among todays comics.
Working clean and working blue is a matter of opinion I would say.
I was watchig the Bio channel the other night and they did Kevin James ( King Of Queens). Several times they mentioned that all through his career he stood by the belief he wouldnt do anything he wouldnt do in front of his grandmother or chlidren.

While I think he can be very funny at times, I have seen him do lots of bits that I personally wouldn't think were appropriate for either grandma or kids.

My point is that even working clean nowadays has a different meaning thatn when we grew up.

[butters]

Originally Posted by KimW

I'm actually surprised you have to ask.
We have raised a generation that its ok to be disrespectful and say anything and everything without any consequences.

Not everyone is like that... Your stereotyping here.

[MissTerraK]

Originally Posted by butters

Not everyone is like that... Your stereotyping here.

Valid point!

MissTerraK

[Steve Powers]

"when in doubt, don't",well,really nice tips.Thanks

[Dan C. Rinnert]

How do you know they mean to curse?

It could be...

What? It's Friday!?

What The Frak?

What The Fudge?

What's That, Fudge?

Where's The Fudge?

Who's The Fool?

Where's The Fridge?

What's That, Friend?

Want The Fudge?

Who's That Freak?

When's The Frenzy?

What The Find!

Where's The Frill?

Why The Fluff?

Watch This Fist!

Watch This, Friend.

Watch The Food!

Where's The Food?

Where's The Flood?

[Houcem Rihane]

Yeah, it's definitely "Where's The Food"

But seriously, you don't use such a language with a person you meet for the first time... especially if you don't belong to the same age category... unless you suffer from the tourette syndrome (which doesn't count in this case).

That's at least how my parents raised me, I don't know if it works differently somewhere else.

Between buddies its another story, but you can't consider everybody on the forum really a BUDDY.

[kbrockm]

I was ad a real brick-and-mortar job once where a co-worker was writing documentation for some new software the team had produced. In it he put the term "RTFM" (which refers to reading the manual, for those who may not know!). He was fired immediately upon his boss reading it.

[Michael Oksa]

A proofreading client I used to do work for would swear like crazy in his writing. This caused a bit of a dilemma as a proofreader because I didn't want to change his tone too much. My solution was to downgrade each questionable word by a notch or two.

For example, if he used the F-word, I would change it to 'freaking'; if it was the S-word, I would change it to cr@p; if he wrote BS, I would change it to 'nonsense'; and so on. Even after doing that, I felt like it was totaly unprofessional, but figured it was the best solution.

As far as people cussing frequently when talking to others, I'm a firm believer that it's nothing more than being lazy.

I'm not saying whether or not it's right or wrong, but I, personally, don't care to hear or see it. For example, Kelsey Grammer had a new show that debuted a few months ago. It was clearly aimed at the family market. It was a sort of revers Beverly Hillbillies, and I thought it had a lot of promise. Well, in the first five minutes of the pilot episode words like h**l, d*m*, and b*st*rd were used quite frequently. In my opinion it would have been MUCH funnier if they found creative ways to express those ideas. I mean, who can't think of something funnier to call someone than b*st*rd?

Not that I expected the same show, but on Frasier, Mr. Grammer had decent writiers. And the cussing was incredibly rare. However, the same ideas were conveyed in a much funnier way.

I'm sure there will be a few that come in and defend the use of swearing, but as was mentioned, how do they know that NOT swearing would improve their results even more? Or, the argument of "that's just who I am" will be put forth. Well, I can't argue with that; just know that there are those who aren't big fans of the overuse of lazy speech. So much so that it could have a negative impact on your bottom line.

Do I ever swear? Rarely. But, when I do, it is almost always with forethought, and for a very clear reason. In effect, making it the opposite of lazy speech.

I'm no angel, but the proliferation of profanity is problematic.

All the best,
Michael "Yes, I'm the type of guy who yells 'fiddlesticks!' if he hits his thumb with a hammer" Oksa

[jazbo]

Different generations, different takes on things.

[Floyd Fisher]

How do you know those letters aren't the initials of their name?

Reminds me of an All in the Family episode, where they are fighting over the babies name.

Archie: Why not name him Archibald Stanislouse Sivic?

Gloria: Oh, you don't want those initials.

[Laura B]

Profanity in marketing, as in life in general, totally turns me off as well. It makes the person look the opposite of how they think it makes them look. I guess they figure because their equally vocabulary-challenged buddies think it's cool, it must be.

Maybe Larry Platt should add to his song:

Pants on the ground! F-bombs all around! Soundin' like a fool wit' the air all blue! Call yourself a cool cat, soundin' like a fool, cursin' 'round town with your pants on the ground!

[kennethtang]

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

William Thomas Furguson will not be pleased with this. LOL

Nor will the World Taekwondo Federation

[Jonathan Ferraro]

Well... I think context has a lot to do with. Certain people cursing will be a lot more offensive than other people cursing. It's all in what you are saying. My favorite all-time comedian is George Carlin. We all know the "seven dirty words" and he's absolutely right. It's kind of hypocritical that we use different euphemisms for these so called "dirty" words but we can't say them out loud.

That being said, there are some people who will curse a mile a minute, and it will make me want to roll my eyes. There are others who can curse and it sounds like poetry.

Btw...I don't curse on any my sites, because well....I am running a business. I also wouldn't curse at a customer if I was working at Wal-Mart. Same thing.

[WD Mino]

Originally Posted by Kay King

They THINK it works for them - but I wonder how many have actually tested it.

They THINK is it is an attention getter - but what kind of attention? Sometimes it may attract a certain target market but may lose a potentially larger market.

My reaction to the use of profanity in marketing copy is to assume the person has a weak grasp of the language and a limited vocabulary. Online (with the exception of RJ whose copy I never liked anyway) the use seems to have originated with very young marketers - but as in the offline world it then becomes common and spreads to others.

I'm not referring to the occasional profanity used in otherwise informative content or email - but some of these people make the profanity their "look at me" hook. It's funny that even with the wide use of the same few curse words - people still think they are being unique in saying those few words.

Using WTF as a user name tells me that's not someone serious about being on an IM forum or doing much of anything. But recently I've seen quite a few user names that made me feel that way about the user - and they weren't even "bad words", just ridiculous.

kay

Well in some cases it does work for people Kay however the limitation of vocabulary I agree with. When you have a generation that speaks in it's own language wtf yo etc they are all normal and sad to say but true nonethless these are the people being targeted and they think it is cool.
-WD

[JackPowers]

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

A proofreading client I used to do work for would swear like crazy in his writing. This caused a bit of a dilemma as a proofreader because I didn't want to change his tone too much. My solution was to downgrade each questionable word by a notch or two.

For example, if he used the F-word, I would change it to 'freaking'; if it was the S-word, I would change it to cr@p; if he wrote BS, I would change it to 'nonsense'; and so on. Even after doing that, I felt like it was totaly unprofessional, but figured it was the best solution.

As far as people cussing frequently when talking to others, I'm a firm believer that it's nothing more than being lazy.

I'm not saying whether or not it's right or wrong, but I, personally, don't care to hear or see it. For example, Kelsey Grammer had a new show that debuted a few months ago. It was clearly aimed at the family market. It was a sort of revers Beverly Hillbillies, and I thought it had a lot of promise. Well, in the first five minutes of the pilot episode words like h**l, d*m*, and b*st*rd were used quite frequently. In my opinion it would have been MUCH funnier if they found creative ways to express those ideas. I mean, who can't think of something funnier to call someone than b*st*rd?

Not that I expected the same show, but on Frasier, Mr. Grammer had decent writiers. And the cussing was incredibly rare. However, the same ideas were conveyed in a much funnier way.

I'm sure there will be a few that come in and defend the use of swearing, but as was mentioned, how do they know that NOT swearing would improve their results even more? Or, the argument of "that's just who I am" will be put forth. Well, I can't argue with that; just know that there are those who aren't big fans of the overuse of lazy speech. So much so that it could have a negative impact on your bottom line.

Do I ever swear? Rarely. But, when I do, it is almost always with forethought, and for a very clear reason. In effect, making it the opposite of lazy speech.

I'm no angel, but the proliferation of profanity is problematic.

All the best,
Michael "Yes, I'm the type of guy who yells 'fiddlesticks!' if he hits his thumb with a hammer" Oksa

There's a place for swearing imo, like a face to face no nonsense approach, depending on the audience and substituting the worst swear words with lesser ones work just as well.

[discrat]

Originally Posted by Blase

Hi,

This is not so much a rant as it is a question.

I was just looking around in the WSO's and noticed
a Warrior that is using "WTF" as his user name.

Did I miss the memo?

When did it become OK, to use swear words
in copy, email subject lines, user names, and at the
table next to me in restaurants?

How and why did this become cool?

Unless you are face to face with some one and know
them very well what makes you think that swearing is OK?

I've been in sales and marketing for for 46 years
and I have always lived by, "when in doubt, don't".

That applies to everything you do, write, or say.

You will never know it, but I guarantee you are losing
sales by going into the gutter with your words.

Just something to think about.

Interesting your view. But here is something you might consider.
One of my best friends growing up was actually named John Doe. And it pissed the hell out of him when missing people or unknown people were referred to by 'his name'.

Word of advice : Dont judge until you know the full story. WTF is the initials of my wife's cousin and it is actually common initials for many, many folks in the US !!!

[WD Mino]

Originally Posted by discrat

Interesting your view. But here is something you might consider.
One of my best friends growing up was actually named John Doe. And it pissed the hell out of him when missing people or unknown people were referred to by 'his name'.

Word of advice : Dont judge until you know the full story. WTF is the initials of my wife's cousin and it is actually common initials for many, many folks in the US !!!

Common for initials or not wtf is known throughout as what the#### sorry that makes no sense in reference to this context. just like ftw doesn't mean franklin tibadeu warner it means #### the world. online or offline

[Jason_V]

Originally Posted by WD Mino

Common for initials or not wtf is known throughout as what the#### sorry that makes no sense in reference to this context. just like ftw doesn't mean franklin tibadeu warner it means #### the world. online or offline

Actually, today, most of the time when someone says ftw, they mean for the win. Meaning whatever was mentioned rules. Example:

Warrior Forum ftw!

There's a perfect example of how you can think an acronym means something bad, when in fact, it can mean something entirely different. Unless it's used in context as mentioned above.

[Rod Cortez]

What The Freaking.......????

Maybe WTH would be better? I don't know....

RoD

[Dennis Gaskill]

WD, I must be getting old. I'd never heard FTW used before.

I've always felt that in most cases, swearing is intellectual laziness. There are almost always better ways to express yourself that are more effective. Do I swear? Very rarely, but when I do it's intentional, with forethought, and intently paid attention to because my friends and family are shocked to hear me curse.

[appsrus]

Originally Posted by Blase

You will never know it, but I guarantee you are losing
sales by going into the gutter with your words.

I'd have to agree with this, at least where the large majority of my copywriting is concerned.

Putting profanity on a sales page is typically a bad idea.

That being said, it can also help you, depending on what you're trying to sell, and more importantly your target demographic.

I HAVE had great success with CPA landing pages that feature less than squeaky-clean language, but then again the particular campaign wasn't targeted at grandmas and grandpas.

The bottom line though is that society in general just keeps getting dirtier and more liberal (not in the political sense). Someone above mentioned Frasier. While that show is absolutely terrible, () it did make me think of the blatant effect that can be seen by observing the shift in the language used in TV shows over the past 10-20 years. I remember when it was forbidden to say "b@stard" on television AT ALL, let alone words like "bi@tch", etc.. you get the idea.

The bottom line is that I fully expect F bombs to be dropping on network television within my lifetime and will only be momentarily shocked when I finally do see it happen.

It's just the way things are going, there's nothing that can be done about. Aside from pray for Jesus to return

[KimW]

Originally Posted by butters

Not everyone is like that... Your stereotyping here.

No, I'm not.

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Valid point!

MissTerraK

No, its not.

[JaiJay]

Originally Posted by appsrus

That being said, it can also help you, depending on what you're trying to sell, and more importantly your target demographic.

Not being a pro in this area I am struggling to think of a scenario where using profanity would actually forward you in your market?

[thedogtreatjar]

This is a super interesting topic to me because I recently had a client who wanted me to re-write his copy "in his voice" for a XBox product.

"His voice" = terrible profanity. I was super nervous but did as I was told. He was thrilled but the conversion was the same. I suggested a cleaner copy without the potty mouth and wrote something up for him. His conversion went up 2 percent in a week.

...and that's an xBox product that moms are not likely to purchase

[jennypitts]

Well, We can not really judge by generation differences. The generation raised up... Let's say; in the 60s... Used a lot of drugs including hallucinating drugs and heroin. And were very rebellious... The 70-80 lots of coke and sex, the 90 crack and now other issues... I was looking at a study that says that this generation or current time in US is historically conservative. So, who can we believe?

I am not in favor of using profanity... But I also am not in favor of having selective amnesia.

WTF is not really a curse word... And it can be subject to interpretation.

[tryinhere]

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

WD, I must be getting old. I'd never heard FTW used before.

.

FTW has 2 meanings that i know of, one we won't repeat here the other is very positive

For The Win

so i guess it also need to be in context

[A Bary]

Anyone Remember the sad days of what so called the R.J?

This stupid silly attitude of marketing made some people hink it's cool to be offensive and disrespectful.

As long as people don't use their mind and logic, we will keep seeing this

[JaiJay]

Originally Posted by jennypitts

Well, We can not really judge by generation differences. The generation raised up... Let's say; in the 60s... Used a lot of drugs including hallucinating drugs and heroin. And were very rebellious... The 70-80 lots of coke and sex, the 90 crack and now other issues... I was looking at a study that says that this generation or current time in US is historically conservative. So, who can we believe?

Haha, excellent point and well made. How can somebody possibly generalise an entire generation so broadly like that!?

[kevinfar]

Each generation will have its bad grapes and its good ones. I don't think that you can just generalize and say that this generation is all about using bad words to get attention.

However I do agree that some of these people in this generation, especially the younger ones do think that some things that are obviously not ok, actually are.

Kevin

[Dennis Gaskill]

Originally Posted by tryinhere

FTW has 2 meanings that i know of, one we won't repeat here the other is very positive

For The Win

so i guess it also need to be in context

Never heard of that before this thread either. Sigh -- you just had to quote the part where I said I must be getting old, didn't you?

[jennypitts]

BTW; That means; By the way! LOL!!! 10 year ago we did not have this little box where I am writing right now. What I mean is that this generation has so many options to speak out and even do it anonymously. That it makes it VERY difficult to restrict or control the quality of speech. A kid in the early 90 still did not had all the WORLD of options available right now. So the chances of speaking out freely were limited to his High School newspaper (under the guidance of his teachers).

Right now there is no speed limit!!! We are not in the information super highway... This is more like the autobahn!

[butters]

Originally Posted by KimW

No, I'm not.

Please tell me how this: "We have raised a generation that its ok to be disrespectful and say anything and everything without any consequences."
isn't stereotyping?

We have raised a "generation" implying everyone... Look I am 19, the generation may be a little younger in what was implyed. We don't disrespect everyone; we aint fail mouthed; we do wear hoodies because they look good; we do understand consequences and we respect the law. Seriously, you hear some bad stuff about some teenagers in the news and all of asudden every teenager is deemed a menace to society.

[jennypitts]

Originally Posted by butters

Please tell me how this: "We have raised a generation that its ok to be disrespectful and say anything and everything without any consequences."
isn't stereotyping?

We have raised a "generation" implying everyone... Look I am 19, the generation may be a little younger in what was implyed. We don't disrespect everyone; we aint fail mouthed; we do wear hoodies because they look good; we do understand consequences and we respect the law. Seriously, you hear some bad stuff about some teenagers in the news and all of asudden every teenager is deemed a menace to society.

You see! A kid raised in the 60s, 70s, 80, and not even the 90s... Did not had this opportunity to speak back. INSTANTLY!!!
Not in week by a letter sent to the publisher (like the old days) that maybe no one would see anyway.

[butters]

Originally Posted by jennypitts

You see! A kid raised in the 60s, 70s, 80, and not even the 90s... Did not had this opportunity to speak back. INSTANTLY!!!
Not in week by a letter sent to the publisher (like the old days) that maybe no one would see anyway.

I don't get what your saying...

[KimW]

Originally Posted by butters

Please tell me how this: "We have raised a generation that its ok to be disrespectful and say anything and everything without any consequences."
isn't stereotyping?

We have raised a "generation" implying everyone... Look I am 19, the generation may be a little younger in what was implyed. We don't disrespect everyone; we aint fail mouthed; we do wear hoodies because they look good; we do understand consequences and we respect the law. Seriously, you hear some bad stuff about some teenagers in the news and all of asudden every teenager is deemed a menace to society.

Since your only 19 I forgive your ignorance.
No, I do mean your generation. But that does not imply everyone,but it does imply a majority. And from my experience and the experience of many other adults, that statement as a generalization is quite accurate.

You don't disrespect everyone, but a good portion of you are very disrespectful

Maybe you aren't (its spelled foul) mouthed, but many of you are,and you have no respect for the people around you when you choose to be.

A large portion of you have zero respect for the law.Just read the news everyday.Thats one wahy of finding that out, the other is just everyday observation.

By the way, I have rasied 5 children, all of then are older than you, but close to your age.

[jennypitts]

Originally Posted by butters

I don't get what your saying...

Well, Maybe people from other generations know what I am talking about. Maybe you don't have the historical facts to understand.

Great discussion Warriors!!! I am loving it!

[butters]

Originally Posted by KimW

Since your only 19 I forgive your ignorance.
No, I do mean your generation. But that does not imply everyone,but it does imply a majority. And from my experience and the experience of many other adults, that statement as a generalization is quite accurate.

You don't disrespect everyoine, but a good portion of you are very disrespectful

Maybe you aren't (its spelled foul) mouthed, but many of you are,and you have no respect for the people around you when you choose to be.

A latge portion of you have zero respect for the law.Just read the news everyday.

By the way, I have rasied 5 children, all of then are older than you, but close to your age.

If you are basing your findings on the news then you are seriously basing your feelings on a minority of teenagers. Am I supposed to look at the news and think, war mongering people who are bad with money and messed up the environment? No I don't, there are just as many bad adults out there as there are to kids.

[butters]

Originally Posted by jennypitts

Well, Maybe people from other generations know what I am talking about. Maybe you don't have the historical facts to understand.

Great discussion Warriors!!! I am loving it!

No, you didn't state anything...