Goodbye, it was nice knowing you all

14 years ago

I firmly believe that anyone who goes into business just to make money will fail. You have to be passionate about over-delivering, and your people do that for you. I double my writers asking price on Elance without him asking because his work was good. Great post though, hope a lot of people read it.

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Shane N

14 years ago

I guess it has largely to do with the performance of the individual worker, whether virtual or not. I believe that businesses that don't treat their employees with the utmost respect are doomed.

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Lisa Gergets

14 years ago

Wow...I'd never think to treat employees, online or not, as anything less than the people they are. If they do a great job, they're golden and something to be treasured. If they don't, they may not stay an employee, but I'd still never disrespect them.

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Ken Leatherman

14 years ago

Let's face it, the fundamentals of human decency or paramount to the survival of the human race. And treating virtual workers/outsource'rs/employees shabbily is a disgrace and morally wrong in my opinion.

However, having said that as an online business man, I do have to make sure that my business runs as smoothly as possible. When the employee/contractor performs sloppy work or doesn't deliver on time, I will give them at least 2 chances to improve their work. Then I will fire them if there is no or very little improvement.

But when they work with me I also try to look after them. This includes making sure they get plenty of work and paying them a bonus every now and then. But most of all I treat them as respectfully as I can.

Ken Leatherman

The Old Geezer

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Ruth P

14 years ago

When you treat people badly, perhaps by going for quantity over quality, for example looking for as many workers as possible to give you the cheapest deal until they burn out, perhaps it does work for some to make a bit of fast cash - but it's short-lived.

In my opinion, building relationships over the long term will put you in a far better position for success in the future. Not only that, but really connecting with the people you work with, and always treating them as you'd expect them to treat you, will really help to boost morale and you'll probably get better results from them anyway.

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Nemanja

14 years ago

This is very good point, treat all your workers/freelancers like YOU want to be treated as a worker.

Nemanja

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Lisa Gergets

14 years ago

for example looking for as many workers as possible to give you the cheapest deal until they burn out

This is the "McDonald's" philosophy of employee management. They hire employees cheaply, and by the time they are eligible for benefits, etc. they're burned out and quit. McDonald's saves on benefit expenditures and makes more money. They employees? They could care less. It's sickening.

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Zeus66

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Lisa Gergets

This is the "McDonald's" philosophy of employee management. They hire employees cheaply, and by the time they are eligible for benefits, etc. they're burned out and quit. McDonald's saves on benefit expenditures and makes more money. They employees? They could care less. It's sickening.

I hated being told to treat people this way, basically, when I was in the corporate world. It was a strong motivator to get the hell out. So glad I did! But McD's makes a helluva tasty burger, so you gotta give them some leeway.

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MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

14 years ago

[DELETED]

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Lisa Gergets

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MarkAndrews IMCopywriting

Mc****e, I'd rather be dead than eat that rubbish
or be seen in one of their 'establishments' - if I
was to consider terrorism, I could quite happily
blow up every Mc****e on the planet.

Lest we not forget, they are responsible and have
been for many years cutting down huge swathes
of rainforest just to replace the land with cattle
ranching, the land though, completely unsuitable
for such a purpose after the slash and burn yields
very little, so what does Mc****e do?...

Why, they go and cut down even more natural
forest all to feed an insatiable appetite in the west
for burgers that taste like absolute 'krap', an excuse
for real nourishing food.

They couldn't give a flying stuff about proper
nourishment, putting good food into people's bodies,
it's all just about mega profits for them, give the
people the 'krap' they want and stuff the indigenous
people who have been displaced from their homelands.

Must be one of the most vile corporations on the
planet.

How they can get away with some of their advertising
/ TV commercials, making out that they are full of
country goodness and care for the environment, is
just beyond me.

Rant over...you can return to your normal programming
now.

Streuth, I hate that company!

GRRRRR!

Please Mark, stop holding back! I want to know how you REALLY feel.

(BTW, I agree.)

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petelta

14 years ago

Like Zeus66 said, the corporate world almost makes you treat people in this manor. My fulltime job is as an Account Manager for a staffing company. This company is full blown corporate down to the wire. I absolutely hate the way I have to treat my employees. If I let up from the book and one of my supervisors sees this, I'm in deep trouble.

One example I will give you is a worker who has been a great worker got strep throat and had to miss 3 consecutive days. Corporate policy is 3 days absents in a 90 day period and they are fired...NO MATTER WHAT. I had to fire this man who has worked with us for over 3 years and done great due to a rule I have to follow. The owner of the company was there that day and I couldn't wander from the rules.

Another example is: This year I had to fire 48 people on Christmas Eve...I asked if I could hold out until the following week, but corporate said no. =(

Businesses can be successful as long as they have a system (McDonald's is a great example of this) without being good to the employees. I can't wait to work IM full time so I can feel good about how I treat people. As long as the corporate world is making money, they don't care about how they treat their employers.

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R Hagel 14 years ago

Originally Posted by petelta

Another example is: This year I had to fire 48 people on Christmas Eve...I asked if I could hold out until the following week, but corporate said no. =(

Wow, I don't envy you there.

Maybe this year they'll have you just fire everyone on their individual birthdays.

**

Yes, I've seen what you're talking about in this thread with regards to people treating their employees and freelancers like crap. I've also seen "business people" (we'll use that term loosely) treat their customers like crap.

For example, just a few days ago someone posted a report on this forum where s/he called her/his article writing clients "pricks." No, not the troublesome clients -- ALL of them. And this person was trying to teach a method for landing article clients.

Uhhh, yeah. I got the feeling s/he looked at those clients as ATM machines that you can kick if they don't spew enough cash on command.

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Becky
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Jonathan Ferraro

14 years ago

Originally Posted by petelta

Like Zeus66 said, the corporate world almost makes you treat people in this manor. My fulltime job is as an Account Manager for a staffing company. This company is full blown corporate down to the wire. I absolutely hate the way I have to treat my employees. If I let up from the book and one of my supervisors sees this, I'm in deep trouble.

One example I will give you is a worker who has been a great worker got strep throat and had to miss 3 consecutive days. Corporate policy is 3 days absents in a 90 day period and they are fired...NO MATTER WHAT. I had to fire this man who has worked with us for over 3 years and done great due to a rule I have to follow. The owner of the company was there that day and I couldn't wander from the rules.

Another example is: This year I had to fire 48 people on Christmas Eve...I asked if I could hold out until the following week, but corporate said no. =(

Businesses can be successful as long as they have a system (McDonald's is a great example of this) without being good to the employees. I can't wait to work IM full time so I can feel good about how I treat people. As long as the corporate world is making money, they don't care about how they treat their employers.

Geez.........That is absolutely brutal! I would have been completely depressed having to do that to people. I can't image how much screaming you must have had to deal with. Not that it's your fault obviously. But when somebody gets fired they are not going to be happy with the person who delivers the news.

I've heard of some cold blooded stuff but firing that many people on Christmas Eve. You must work for Scrooge. My goodness!!

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petelta

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ferraro

Geez.........That is absolutely brutal! I would have been completely depressed having to do that to people. I can't image how much screaming you must have had to deal with. Not that it's your fault obviously. But when somebody gets fired they are not going to be happy with the person who delivers the news.

I've heard of some cold blooded stuff but firing that many people on Christmas Eve. You must work for Scrooge. My goodness!!

It was definitely not fun. I can handle the yelling just fine. The crying is the hard part.

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Scott Ames 14 years ago

Originally Posted by petelta

Another example is: This year I had to fire 48 people on Christmas Eve...I asked if I could hold out until the following week, but corporate said no. =(

That's when you wish you had the bucks to walk. If that were me and I had the bucks to walk I would not tell them and let corporate throw a fit. They would still have to pay them until they fired me and got someone else to do the dirty work. Revenge is dish best served cold.
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Rod Cortez

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Scott Ames

...
So how do you treat virtual people? Are they just a means to an end? If they do good work and make you wealthy are you just going to toss them once you are done? Do you think of them as individuals or as machines? Something to consider.

Scott,

That's a pretty general statement without a whole lot of specifics. I'm not quit sure what point you're really trying to make. I mean, I treat my VA staff extremely well. I have a profit-sharing plan for ones who have been with me for a certain period of time. I have enough work to keep them all busy and plan on having it that way for a long time. Most of them are local to me so we meet up no less than once a month for important meetings.

But they also understand that they are not employees, they are hired contractors. Each one of them is hired on to do a specific job and just like they can quit without notice, I can let them go without notice (though hopefully it never comes to that). Most of them just want work, very few of them actually want to learn to become wealthy on their own. I have taken one of my VAs under my wing, a young college woman, smart as heck, ambitious as they come, and absorbing everything like a sponge.

RoD

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Joe Benjamin

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Scott Ames

Goodbye, it was nice knowing you all.

That's the message everyone that has a job dreams to send to their co-workers. Whatever changed I'm not sure, but most companies don't really care about their people these days.

It's all about the bucks and people are a necessary evil to getting more. Without the people, they would not succeed but they know they can fill positions at the drop of a hat and care little for the individual.

So how do you treat virtual people? Are they just a means to an end? If they do good work and make you wealthy are you just going to toss them once you are done? Do you think of them as individuals or as machines?

Something to consider.

That's funny, I thought you were leaving.

Had me fooled

...and I know I'm not the only one
here who taught that.

I was going to send you a going away gift and $50,
but you screwed yourself outof a deal.

Here's what I've seen.

I love big companies. There a huge service to many
people, and no company, no matter how big or small
is obligated to treat their employees like royalty.

Most companies DO care about their employees, but
if your talking about lack of benefits and lower pay,
well, that doesn't a bad company make. Even us
marketers like a good deal and want to keep prices
down.

And no, I personally don't treat my VA's like crap. I
love them, there awesome, and I've had nothing but
great experineces save for the few odd occassions.

What I usually try to do, before they agree to work
with me is a partnership deal where I teach them what
I know. I encourage them to leave and do them. And
If I don't need them, no harm in recommending them or
helping them find another job if they're intrested in
business.

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ShawnC 14 years ago

Wow - a lot of good thoughts and points in this thread so far. I'll add some thoughts, however good (or not) they may be.

I feel treating employees and co-workers with utmost respect and decency is more important that what you pay them. If you give a raise or a bonus, then their expectations grow to that raise or bonus, however the amount of work they do often does not grow with it. If someone hates theirs job and complains about not getting a raise - when they DO get a raise it's only a matter of time before they're complaining about their job again and how they deserve a raise.

When someone feels respected and appreciated, they can be okay with their pay but happy with where they work. If they receive a raise, they are grateful for it and while they may feel it's well deserved (as it should be, otherwise a raise shouldn't be given out) they also feel happy to be getting it and happy in their position.

In regards to the McDonald's thoughts: It is pretty amazing McDonald's can deliver the exact same promise - the exact same food and customer experience - whether you are in Edmonton, Toronto, New York, or Kalamazoo. And it's delivered by disinterested, teenage kids - some of the least qualified employees on the continent. And they do this BILLIONS of times every single year, at thousands and thousands of locations from sea-to-sea.

...and yet most of us can't ever deliver that level of consistency to one set of customers of our one business, located in only one city or town. What's the difference? The difference is SYSTEMS.

I think Systems is a key to maintaining and showing appreciation to all of ones employees as well. I have no idea what it's like working in a McDonalds. But I respect the consistency of business they've been able to develop, regardless of the type of corporation they are.
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website-tuner

14 years ago

Many CEO's think of working people as machines or just numbers they can exchange as they like.
Never in history there have been so many working slaves like nowadays.

There must be a BIG change or it will get even worse..

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Groovy99

14 years ago

I've worked for the heartless emotionless corporate machines and the companies that treat people like people. I always worked harder for the second. The first was just a J.O.B.

When I got started outsourcing online I vowed to myself to never be a jerk to my virtual teams regardless of how much they pay or how far away they are even if it costs me money to do so. I've managed to hold up that end too with no problem.

And for the record McDonald's burgers lick the sweat off a dead dogs ...nether regions.

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Ruth P

14 years ago

Wow that really isn't good at all.

This thread is a very blunt reminder of how people can be - but let us all be thankful that we're in a position to do things our own way, and treat people how we would like to be treated ourselves.

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awddjawb

14 years ago

Treat them as you would like to be treated.
Keep them happy and give them all they need to succeed and actually pay them what they are worth, not what is always best for your bottom line.
Happy people work better and make better decisions

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Rod Cortez 14 years ago

I'm agreeing with many you about the heartless corporate world because I used to be part of it. But I thought the OP was asking about how we treat our "virtual people?".

Man, I can't ever picture myself going back to a corporate J.O.B. again. I'd tear out my left ear lobe if that ever happened (it won't).

RoD "Coffee-Rules!" Cortez
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socomplete

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Scott Ames

Goodbye, it was nice knowing you all.

That's the message everyone that has a job dreams to send to their co-workers. Whatever changed I'm not sure, but most companies don't really care about their people these days.

It's all about the bucks and people are a necessary evil to getting more. Without the people, they would not succeed but they know they can fill positions at the drop of a hat and care little for the individual.

So how do you treat virtual people? Are they just a means to an end? If they do good work and make you wealthy are you just going to toss them once you are done? Do you think of them as individuals or as machines?

Something to consider.

I have shocking news on that note: I personally called H & R block and I was being sent to a customer service call center representative. This robot talked and answered my question like a real person. Do you think these big companies could care less about you? No, they can find some other guy,or gal that will slave away to make them rich and live their dreams.