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Is it just me, or do I just not "get" article marketing for Warriors?

by JasonParker
33 replies
OK... The hype over article marketing around here finally made me crack.

You're a WARRIOR...

Should you really be article marketing/bum marketing for affiliate products?

Or should you be training hundreds of affiliates to article market YOUR product?

It's not very hard to put a product on ClickBank in any niche, especially using PLR.

So what's the deal here, Warriors?

What's all this talk about making $100 a day article marketing when you can have just 1 affiliate making $100 a day article marketing your product and you'd make the same amount of money?

Maybe I just don't get the appeal of working until your eyeballs bleed when you can have 100s or even 1000s of affiliates doing it all for you... especially since you're a Warrior, it doesn't make sense.

Haven't you been listening to anything Allen says?

I know I probably just offended 75% of Warrior Forum, but maybe 1 person will read this and think about how you're leveraging your business.

So, this message came from the heart.

I normally don't voice my opinion because I know I'll get attacked.

BUT...

What on Earth is going on around here? haha...
#article #marketing #warriors
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Getting started is Step A - having thousands of affiliates promoting your products is close to Step Z.

    There are a lot of steps in between - article marketing is only one of many methods to move toward "Z".

    "Warrior" is only a word. You can live up to the image - but having the word applied to you doesn't give you any special powers. Now, if membership came with a trusty (and sharp) sword, that might be different...though sometimes a shield would be a better choice around here ;-).

    kay
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      Getting started is Step A - having thousands of affiliates promoting your products is close to Step Z.

      There are a lot of steps in between - article marketing is only one of many methods to move toward "Z".

      "Warrior" is only a word. You can live up to the image - but having the word applied to you doesn't give you any special powers. Now, if membership came with a trusty (and sharp) sword, that might be different...though sometimes a shield would be a better choice around here ;-).

      kay
      Everyone should get a sword haha.

      I'm going to have to disagree. Having a product and getting affiliates is not hard. To me it's easier than cranking out articles all day.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Paul
        Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

        Everyone should get a sword haha.

        I'm going to have to disagree. Having a product and getting affiliates is not hard. To me it's easier than cranking out articles all day.
        Hi Jason, any suggestions in getting affiliates as you describe would be highly appreciated.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Jason, getting affiliates is one of the toughest things, at least for me, to do.

      In fact, it has become so ridiculously hard, that I stopped putting products
      up on Clickbank. Instead, I use my marketing smarts and instead of getting
      25% profit, I get 100% profit.

      Sure, it too me a long time to get to the point where I built a big enough
      list not to rely on affiliates, but it was worth it.

      But everybody has to do what's best for them. There is no one way or best
      way.

      I learned this over the years.
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      • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Jason, getting affiliates is one of the toughest things, at least for me, to do.

        In fact, it has become so ridiculously hard, that I stopped putting products
        up on Clickbank. Instead, I use my marketing smarts and instead of getting
        25% profit, I get 100% profit.

        Sure, it too me a long time to get to the point where I built a big enough
        list not to rely on affiliates, but it was worth it.

        But everybody has to do what's best for them. There is no one way or best
        way.

        I learned this over the years.
        I see your point Steven...

        Though I guarantee if you did 2 things, you'd get affiliates.

        1) Gather some data about your offer and find out how much it would pay out affiliates per click. Send that data to marketers in your niche who you at least have some kind of relationship with. Image snapshots work.

        If it's paying out enough per click, then that's mainly what affiliates care about. It's sad they don't care about the quality of product their promoting (as long as it doesn't get a bunch of refunds), but that's the way it is.

        2) Get a graphic designer like Warrior Karl Warren to create your mini sites and ecovers. Tons of affiliates will only promote a slick site. Doesn't have to be overpowering, but at least clean and sharp.

        ...

        You've been able to grow your list through articles. I can tell you, though, and you already know that the most valuable list you'll ever have is a list of buyers.

        I'll have to give it to article traffic though. It's a pretty darn high quality source for a lot of reasons. Though I'd rather have affiliates send that traffic my way.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

          I see your point Steven...

          Though I guarantee if you did 2 things, you'd get affiliates.

          1) Gather some data about your offer and find out how much it would pay out affiliates per click. Send that data to marketers in your niche who you at least have some kind of relationship with. Image snapshots work.

          If it's paying out enough per click, then that's mainly what affiliates care about. It's sad they don't care about the quality of product their promoting (as long as it doesn't get a bunch of refunds), but that's the way it is.

          2) Get a graphic designer like Warrior Karl Warren to create your mini sites and ecovers. Tons of affiliates will only promote a slick site. Doesn't have to be overpowering, but at least clean and sharp.

          ...

          You've been able to grow your list through articles. I can tell you, though, and you already know that the most valuable list you'll ever have is a list of buyers.

          I'll have to give it to article traffic though. It's a pretty darn high quality source for a lot of reasons. Though I'd rather have affiliates send that traffic my way.

          Jason, nice to see your photo up there. About time.

          If I were starting from scratch as a product creator, I'd do exactly as
          you said.

          Actually, this is what I'd do.

          1. Create kick ass product.
          2. Have top copywriter write copy.
          3. Get it up on Adwords and track CPC and EPC.
          4. Compile data with proof.
          5. Send to affiliates along with:

          a. Professionally made banners
          b. Articles.
          c. Email ads
          d. squeeze pages to collect leads
          e. 75% commission

          The product would sell for a minimum of $47. I don't think you'll get a lot
          of affiliates for less than $25 per commission. At least that's my low point.
          75% will give them between $30 and $35, which is a nice amount.

          Then, if I wanted to really knock this out of the ball park, I'd offer a slice
          to a list product for promoting to his list.

          That's what I'd do if I was starting all over.

          Today, what for? I'm doing well enough with what I do and it no longer
          takes hours out of my day. In fact, now, I can spend 4 hours on product
          creation, get it out to my list and make a quick $3K for 4 hours work.

          I do that 4 times a month and that's 12K.

          16 hours work for the month.

          And it's ALL profit.

          I'd have to sell 4 times the number of product to make the same money
          with affiliates.

          Do the math and tell me if it's worth it if you're in MY position?
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          • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
            @Steven

            That works...

            If your cup is full, I guess you can't pour more in.

            ...

            "Today, what for? I'm doing well enough with what I do and it no longer
            takes hours out of my day. In fact, now, I can spend 4 hours on product
            creation, get it out to my list and make a quick $3K for 4 hours work.

            I do that 4 times a month and that's 12K."

            To make more money is the only reason I can think of.
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    • Profile picture of the author Burtgummer
      From watching others try to launch their own products, I have noticed that it is quite difficult to get even a few affiliates to promote your product. You need a reputation if you want a bunch of affiliates. Mushing some PLR together and trying to get people to promote it is not as easy as some people make it out to be.
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      • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
        Originally Posted by Burtgummer View Post

        From watching others try to launch their own products, I have noticed that it is quite difficult to get even a few affiliates to promote your product. You need a reputation if you want a bunch of affiliates. Mushing some PLR together and trying to get people to promote it is not as easy as some people make it out to be.
        Reputation can help score some big affiliates for sure.

        More important... how much they'll make by promoting. That's what it mainly boils down to.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Originally Posted by Burtgummer View Post

        From watching others try to launch their own products, I have noticed that it is quite difficult to get even a few affiliates to promote your product. You need a reputation if you want a bunch of affiliates. Mushing some PLR together and trying to get people to promote it is not as easy as some people make it out to be.
        thats the thing...why "mush" PLR? I think originality will get you a lot further...maybe that's what affiliates are crying for...I know that's what I look for.

        I see Jason's point, though...cranking out article after article is not my preferred lifestyle...besides...I think too many people are doing it...Personally I'd rather try something different, something that's rarely done or never done.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    The thing is that you have to crawl before you can walk and a lot of people that do article marketing are pretty new at this.

    I think it takes a while to get your feet wet and learn the ropes before you can make your own product and get affiliates to promote it.

    Some people don't really want all the headaches of having their own product so that road might not be for everyone either.

    And finally, making your own product and getting affiliates takes time and planning and it seems that most people want immediate results which article marketing offers.

    Lee
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  • Profile picture of the author InternetMarketingIQ
    You do what ever you can do. Talk is just that.
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    Also boils down to what risks you are willing to take.

    With the new FTC 'guidelines' you have a partial responsibility in their actions, (Actually you did before the new guidelines... ask Frank Kern, now you just have greater legal connections to your 'sales force' whether salaried/commission or contracted )

    Now your culpability is much greater. It would not be much of a stretch to have a product creator end up in a Federal Facility based solely on the actions of someone selling his product. When you pay someone, either as an employee or as a contractor, you create a legal contingent liability for yourself based on their actions. If they do something that is prosecutable (not necessarily illegal) you can also be charged, Your defense will be what steps you took to educate them to not do what they did (documented of course) and even then if a jury decides that either wasn't enough or there were other circumstances that 'should' have given you an idea not to let them sell your product, you can face charges equal to his or hers.

    I am with Wag on this one. It might take longer and it might be more work, but if you follow what you would need to do to have a defense based on educating your affiliates, that would be even more work, (and may take longer).

    (I have a freind that sold a car for cash. At no time was there any clue even remotely, that they might be drug dealers or attempting to avoid taxes -small business owners will sometimes skim thier own books and pay cash for personal items to avoid tax- he also filled out all the required 'suspicious transaction' forms required on any cash purchase over $5,000 (at the time $10,000). In fact, the person buying the car was NOT a drug dealer or trying to avoid taxes. He was an undercover Federal officer. The jury decided that my friend should have guessed the buyer was a drug dealer in spite of the fact the only thing remotely suspicious was his paying cash, not check for the car. (It is illegal for high ticket salesmen to sell anything to anyone they suspect is a drug dealer) Result? 42 months in the Federal pen and the dealer (employer/contracting entity paid a 2 million dollar fine. All based on a prosecutor convincing a jury that the salesperson (affiliate?) should have guessed the buyer was a drug dealer. The fact he wasn't didn't matter, only the allegation that he should have guessed and convincing a jury of that was enough.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by DogScout View Post

      Also boils down to what risks you are willing to take.

      With the new FTC 'guidelines' you have a partial responsibility in their actions, (Actually you did before the new guidelines... ask Frank Kern, now you just have greater legal connections to your 'sales force' whether salaried/commission or contracted )

      Now your culpability is much greater. It would not be much of a stretch to have a product creator end up in a Federal Facility based solely on the actions of someone selling his product. When you pay someone, either as an employee or as a contractor, you create a legal contingent liability for yourself based on their actions. If they do something that is prosecutable (not necessarily illegal) you can also be charged, Your defense will be what steps you took to educate them to not do what they did (documented of course) and even then if a jury decides that either wasn't enough or there were other circumstances that 'should' have given you an idea not to let them sell your product, you can face charges equal to his or hers.

      I am with Wag on this one. It might take longer and it might be more work, but if you follow what you would need to do to have a defense based on educating your affiliates, that would be even more work, (and may take longer).

      (I have a freind that sold a car for cash. At no time was there any clue even remotely, that they might be drug dealers or attempting to avoid taxes -small business owners will sometimes skim thier own books and pay cash for personal items to avoid tax- he also filled out all the required 'suspicious transaction' forms required on any cash purchase over $5,000 (at the time $10,000). In fact, the person buying the car was NOT a drug dealer or trying to avoid taxes. He was an undercover Federal officer. The jury decided that my friend should have guessed the buyer was a drug dealer in spite of the fact the only thing remotely suspicious was his paying cash, not check for the car. (It is illegal for high ticket salesmen to sell anything to anyone they suspect is a drug dealer) Result? 42 months in the Federal pen and the dealer (employer/contracting entity paid a 2 million dollar fine. All based on a prosecutor convincing a jury that the salesperson (affiliate?) should have guessed the buyer was a drug dealer. The fact he wasn't didn't matter, only the allegation that he should have guessed and convincing a jury of that was enough.
      Good points.

      Here's how to protect yourself: Q&A With FTC Re: Bloggers, Affiliates, Advertisers & More

      See the 4th section, Sellers & Affiliate Managers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
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    • Profile picture of the author Magoo4242
      Jason:

      I have to agree with what you said. in Theory it makes total sense to train the affiliates to do all the article marketing for you, while you can work on other projects and rinse and repeat, without all the headaches of the article marketing etc.

      Like a previous poster said it would be alot of work to set up some kind of documented training method, but I think once you do it once it would be easier just to copy that process for future projects. So only the first time would be the huge effort. Isn't that with anything new though?

      Now getting the affilaiates I think is the easier said then done part. I am new to the whole affiliate marketing game so I can not speak from experience. But I do alot of offline marketing and I think it would all be about building rapport and relationship building with your affiliates. Yes would it be hard at first, of course. But with hard work, great quality products, I think your afilliates will keep growing and growing with each and every project.

      I think it is a great method and strategy. It just takes work and time. I think this would be the ultimate goal of any online marketer. Maybe do a bit of both until you reach these levels?

      Matt
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      To me it's easier than cranking out articles all day.
      You are right, Jason - at some point it is much easier. But that point comes after you learn enough to CREATE a product - after you know how content needs to be written, and sites/landing/squeeze pages built and promoted.

      So many things in IM really are fairly easy to do - but not until AFTER you ly understand what is required to do them. Article marketing is a good way to index a site - to start branding - to get traffic started - and it's free.

      All you have to do is put words in a line on the screen that at least semi- make sense. If you are one who can write fast and easily - it's no big deal to write articles.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        But that point comes after you learn enough to CREATE a product - after you know how content needs to be written, and sites/landing/squeeze pages built and promoted.
        In my case it's different. I created my product first and still on track to
        polish my article marketing.

        But I was only able to do it since I'm already a software developer offline.

        So I guess the reason why article marketing usually comes first
        before product creation and running your own crew is that
        most of those who enters IM doesn't have specialized knowledge
        they can use immediately to throw up a product package.

        So most end up doing the traditional before mastering a skill and
        coming out with their own package.

        All the best,
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay Jennings
    I hate it when people think article marketing is bum marketing, or article marketing means submitting to directories because that's just a tiny facet of it.

    Article marketing at its core means promoting a product or service using articles.

    So how is that at odds with getting affiliates to promote your products?

    People write articles (or have written for them) because they can be a source of free, pre-qualified, targeted traffic.

    And if you have affiliates, guess what? You can offer those articles to the affiliates so they have content that's used to promote your products.

    Article marketing is a technique to drive traffic to a sales page -- whether the product creator uses the articles or an affiliate uses the articles doesn't matter. It's just traffic generation method.

    You wouldn't yell at people for using pay-per-click, would you?

    Jay Jennings
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.

    You're a WARRIOR...

    Should you really be article marketing/bum marketing for affiliate products?
    what question is that?

    Article Marketing brings on the most targeted traffic, it beats PPC for affiliate marketing by a long shot!

    You make it sound like its a bad thing, in fact its NOT.

    As a smart marketer you have your hands in many things, article marketing is ONE aspect. Not only for sales and traffic, but also for strengthening backlinks and SERPs of sites.

    It's very, very good in many ways.
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  • Profile picture of the author rondo
    I never got the whole 'bum marketing' thing either.
    If I do use article marketing the links will always go to my sites, not somebody elses.


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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      :sigh:

      I don't even know where to begin. The misconceptions on what "article
      marketing" alone is, are enough to make me pull my hair out of my head.

      Compound that with the fact that article marketing in itself should be used
      as part of your marketing plan, in the long run, and it's no wonder that we
      have divided camps on this whole thing.

      News flash all you folks against articles.

      If you didn't have them...you wouldn't have much of an Internet.

      Go do some keyword research on just about any topic at all. I don't care
      what it is. With the exception of YouTube results, what are the first
      things that pop up?

      You got it...sites with word constructed content.

      AKA...articles.

      When I want to find out how to get rid of my freaking headache (usually
      from reading some of the misinformation posted by some of the people
      here) without taking an aspirin, I go to Google and look for information.

      That information, 99% of the time, is some article on a natural alternative
      treatment for a headache.

      And then, lo and behold, if I stop being a consumer for a moment and
      put on my marketing hat and do a little research on that page I find
      that it has a PR of 6 and about 50,000 backlinks.

      But damn it to hell...writing articles is a freaking waste of time isn't it.

      Problem is, most people wouldn't know what to do with an article if it
      grew a tongue and gave them a lashing with it.

      Bum Marketing is just ONE FORM OF ARTICLE MARKETING.

      It is NOT the be all and end all.

      Article marketing is NOT just submitting to EZA of a few directories.

      Its...

      1. Putting articles on your blog.
      2. Putting articles on directories.
      3. Bundling them together and putting them into a free report.
      4. Putting them into an autoresponder series.
      5. Turning them into videos.
      6. Submitting them to other marketer's blogs as a guest author.
      7. Turning them into actual products and selling them.

      And a whole lot more.

      Then...combine this with:

      SEO
      PPC
      Ad Buys
      JVs
      Link Exchanges
      Forum Marketing
      Classified Ads
      Safelist Advertising
      FFA Advertising
      Social Networking
      Social Bookmarking

      And I'm sure you can think of a lot of other things...and you have a total
      coordinated effort that can produce a substantial income.

      And article marketing (all 7 parts of it) is just a piece of that.

      Heaven forbid that the people so hell bent against article marketing
      actually took 5 minutes out of there day to look at it objectively and
      realize that it is just ONE piece of a large puzzle.

      As far as I'm concerned, everybody on the planet can stop writing
      articles.

      I'll then find myself on the front page of Google for every keyword I
      target.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
    I would agree with Jason under the assumption that Article Marketing represents writing thousands of articles until your eyes bleed. And that is actually what it represents to several newcoming Warriors.

    However, what if I told you that a few articles can bring you 1,000,000 unique and extremely targeted visitors per month, directly to your offer and/or landing page?

    At a decent 10% opt-in conversion that is 100,000 subscribers per month. At an average 1% conversion if they are sent directly to a mediocre sales letter, that's 10,000 sales in a month. And as GeorgR pointed out, it's the most targeted traffic you can possibly get.

    I'm just throwing figures here, but that's much more than 100 decent affiliates will get you.

    It's all in how you do it. Integrate AM + SEO and you have a winning formula.

    Article Marketing is the fastest way to rank for any keyword whatsoever given the already existing authority of the top article directories.

    Sure, ranking your own virtual real estate for such terms is far superior, but that will take at least a year for the most competitive and highly searched terms (those in the 1,000,000 monthly searches range). Whereas with AM you can start right off the bat.

    I'm not criticizing the affiliate model at all, it does wonders.

    But never underestimate the power of appropriately implemented Article Marketing.

    - Dan Molano

    P.S: I just had to chip in on this one. Warriors, please forgive my absence from the WF as of late, business is going perhaps too well.

    P.P.S: And anyway, like Steven pointed out, it's just one of the many ways to work the method.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
    Some of us have no desire to deal with clickbank ... Besides that I have my own affiliate system built in my sites and I have no need for clickbank.

    Besides that only people that can be affiliates of my products are those that buy my products...

    James
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    • Profile picture of the author DogScout
      Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet View Post

      Some of us have no desire to deal with clickbank ... Besides that I have my own affiliate system built in my sites and I have no need for clickbank.

      Besides that only people that can be affiliates of my products are those that buy my products...

      James
      Smart way to do it. Adding a page of what a person may not do to promote the product (even having the statement 'No affiliate may EVER engage in any activity that is illegal in any country of the world while promoting this -or these- product(s).' And having an action like checking it before issuing an affiliate link can save your butt. (Although making them electrically type their name as well is better)
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