I am SO ANGRY!!!

14 years ago

Some of the comments in that thread must have been deleted because I read it and there were only 2 responses other than yours and they were not that bad. It seems like the offending comments may have been removed.

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Paleochora

14 years ago

Originally Posted by adamv

Some of the comments in that thread must have been deleted because I read it and there were only 2 responses other than yours and they were not that bad. It seems like the offending comments may have been removed.

Just 5 posts in all.

1. me asking the question and explaining what article spinning was
2. Mod telling me to go do it myself
3. Me saying I am not a coder, wouldnt know where to start
4. Mod being a clever geek and trying to make me look stupid (not hard, that)
5. Me pasting the contents of the really rude and insulting PM the mod sent me.

Makes one appreciate this place even more though.

I must point out I did not spam at all. I did not mention a website or post a link or even have a link in a sig. Nothing. Just asked a reasonable question, thats all. Just in case he deleted the paste of his PM here it its:

EDIT: PM CONTENTS REMOVED

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adamv 14 years ago

I didn't see the contents of the PM the first time. The comments in the thread were not nice or helpful but I wouldn't have gotten all bent out of shape over them. I did go back and read the pm though.

Some people have a much different definition of spam than others. Personally, I don't really buy into the duplicate content penalty and don't worry too much about spinning. However, I don't see anything wrong with spinning and submitting to multiple article directories and web 2.0 sites. I would call it syndication, the mod in that forum would call it spam. I think he's wrong but don't let it ruin your day.
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- Paleochora 14 years ago
  
  I have calmed down again now. Sorry everyone for dumping this here...I felt so outraged! Anyway. Water...bridge.....ducks...backs etc etc.
  
  You know, I am Admin & Global Mod on 2 fora and i would never treat people like that.
  
  Maybe the hitler reference was a bit OTT on my part. :rolleyes: But that was after I got insulted.
  
  Like I said earlier, boy its nice to be on TWF
  
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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Ummm... That was much milder than I would have expected. Partly in that it was said in private, but more that it was only one person.

Talk about begging for a beating...

Paul

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R Hagel

14 years ago

I think you need to back away from the keyboard, calm down, take a deep breath. Saying mods have "Hitler complexes" isn't doing you any favors.

If you don't get what you need from that forum, just move on. Don't let it ruin your day. They are just anonymous strangers. Don't let a stranger have that much power over you.

Cheers,
Becky

ETA: You were posting while I was posting, so I was under the assumption that whatever made you angry had already been deleted. It wasn't? That's the entire conversation? Then double or triple what I said in the first two sentences of this post.

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Paul Myers 14 years ago

Becky,

Saying mods have "Hitler complexes" isn't doing you any favors.

Yeah. Especially since the mod in question could have deleted the post, but didn't. There's also the fact that he expressed his personal opinion privately, rather than slamming the poster in the open.

He can probably forget any hope of help from people in that forum. Posting a moderator's private comment in public in a forum like that took his chances from slim to just-about-none.

Paul
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adamv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by R Hagel

ETA: You were posting while I was posting, so I was under the assumption that whatever made you angry had already been deleted. It wasn't? That's the entire conversation? Then double or triple what I said in the first two sentences of this post.

That's exactly what I thought. My first response was that some of the comments must have been removed. I was expecting something far worse and frankly a little more juicy which is why I clicked the link in the first place.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Perhaps a "Writer" forum is not the best place to be discussing "spinners" that create crappy copies of an article in mass. Just saying .....

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Paleochora 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Perhaps a "Writer" forum is not the best place to be discussing "spinners" that create crappy copies of an article in mass. Just saying .....

No its not a writer forum...this is a forum for Open Office Writer, the open source version of MS Word (and mighty fine it is too!)

@seasoned Oh dear, I didnt mean to open the duplicate content arguement again lol

@ R HAgel It was the PM he sent that got me angry. Thats why I felt the need to post it so others would see how people get treated there.
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Matt Bard 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

..."spinners" that create crappy copies of an article in mass. Just saying .....

Hope you are getting ready for the "beat down" coming your way

I found out the other day that you don't want to say anything that in any way could even be remotely misinterpreted to be a negative remark about that crowd.

They went "postal" on me. (pun intended)
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- Paul Myers 14 years ago
  
  Matt,
  
  I found out the other day that you don't want to say anything that in any way could even be remotely misinterpreted to be a negative remark about that crowd.
  
  Yeah, well... They'll get over it. Or they won't.
  
  Paul
  
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  Matt Bard 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Paul Myers
  
  Matt,Yeah, well... They'll get over it. Or they won't.
  
  Paul
  
  You might be right about that. Maybe
  
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  Paul Myers 14 years ago
  
  Barry,
  
  It was the PM he sent that got me angry. Thats why I felt the need to post it so others would see how people get treated there.
  
  splorf!
  
  Any reasonably accurate summation of just how ill-considered a move that was would throw you into fits of apoplectic histrionics.
  
  Think about the mindset that's involved in a large open source project like the OpenOffice suite. Then think about what you asked them to do, and the mindset behind it.
  
  [shaking head and chuckling]
  
  Some people's kids...
  
  Paul
  
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  Eric Lorence 14 years ago
  
  I think the mod was professional and pretty clear as to the problem.
  
  Yet another "marketer" soliciting people to create a plugin which is widely considered a spammers tool and tactic.
  
  They probably have to deal with large amounts of promotional posts a day, and it gets tiring.
  
  You mention products by name and endorse the concept in such a way as the OP appears to be spam.
  
  If I were the mod, the thread would have been deleted.
  
  Just my opinion though, and I won't debate the deeper ethical issues of spinning.
  
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  Matt Bard 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Eric Lorence
  
  endorse the concept in such a way as the OP appears to be spam.
  
  Right.
  
  Yes the truth is that you (OP) were in their house and even though you may not agree with their interpretation, it is rude on your part to point out their private behavior to the public party.
  
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- mojojuju 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Matt M
  
  I found out the other day that you don't want to say anything that in any way could even be remotely misinterpreted to be a negative remark about that crowd.
  
  My opinion of article spinners will change once a work created with one is awarded a Pulitzer Prize. Additionally, I believe that advocates of spinners who think that good writing can be created by them is in self-denial.
  
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  Matt Bard 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by mojojuju
  
  My opinion of article spinners will change once a work created with one is awarded a Pulitzer Prize.
  
  Be careful, remember that Tatum O' Neal won an Oscar.
  
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mojojuju 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Perhaps a "Writer" forum is not the best place to be discussing "spinners" that create crappy copies of an article in mass. Just saying .....

I agree. The OP chose to go to a forum for the best open source office application and asked for their help in creating an application for the purpose of producing randomly generated rubbish. I think the Openoffice enthusiasts of that forum may have felt that to be an insult.
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mrjasonser

14 years ago

wow....kind of mean man!

especially this...

" Personally I feel very reluctant to construct a spam generator for some obviously clueless and uncreative marketeer.

Hope to never see you again on this forum.
Bye"

This mod is soooooo sarcastic!!

Even if he don't like or disagree with your idea,he could have put it in a nicer way.

Tha's what I personally think.
Well, calm down my friend, there are mods and there are "mods"

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Paul Myers 14 years ago

This mod is soooooo sarcastic!!

Dude, if you understood the culture these guys operate in, you'd realize that he was being extremely polite.

Seriously.

First rule of marketing: Know your market.

Paul
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seasoned

14 years ago

Adamv,

I think he might have been talking about that!

So, Paleochora... WHY did you acuse him of being like HITLER!?!?

YOU DID say some insulting things YOURSELF! Your example was HEAVILY simplistic, and NOPE, it is NOT that simple to do it RIGHT! Your example, even though simplistic, is ITSELF wrong. It isn't so "clever", and borders on plagerism. FURTHER, you seem to be asking them to do it for a pittance, after speaking down to them.

Even ENGLISH isn't THAT easy, but the moderator may have been reading this from the standpoint of german, which is HARDER. As even your simplistic example shows, EVEN the preposition may have to change. If it were German, there is declension of the noun and/or article, based on the preposition, and that is JUST FOR STARTERS!

Frankly, I am not Villeroy, but I see what Villeroy is probably seeing, and AGREE!

Steve

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Alexa Smith

Banned 14 years ago

[DELETED]

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George Wright

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I think any kind of basic forum etiquette makes it an implied "rule" (even where it isn't an express one) that the contents of private messages should not really be disclosed openly on the board.

Yes Alexa. Key Words in red above.

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Anomaly1974

14 years ago

Sometimes these things happen here. I was once openly chastised by a group of people for looking for options for finding some work here on the forums while I was suffering some extremely difficult financial times. The person leading the attack chastising me for looking for work here had (at the time) a cry out for donations and about five pages of people donating to them ... and telling me that they had "NEVER" (Caps and emphasis were theres) had to beg for work. I guess begging for money and cash donations really is not begging for work but ... it did leave a sour taste in my mouth. I will leave it to you to decide which one of us remains more popular here on the WF. (and a hint ... it is not me) Still, there is some good information on this forum but sometimes people do get twisted up in knots and at least they did do it via pm and not out in the open as has been done to many others.

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Heidi White

14 years ago

Uh...Me thinks that you should consider deleting this thread and the link to the other forum and that you should NEVER copy and paste a PM from anyone in any forum and share it with the public.

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Paleochora

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless

Uh...Me thinks that you should consider deleting this thread and the link to the other forum and that you should NEVER copy and paste a PM from anyone in any forum and share it with the public.

But Yeah, now I calmed down you are probably right...any clue how to delete a thread

EDIT: I fixed the threads of mine but cant find how to delete/close the thread. Sorry again for venting. Thank you guys for the kind words and thank you other guys for telling me off.

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Barry,

But Yeah, now I calmed down you are probably right...any clue how to delete a thread

You can't, once someone responds. Only the mods can at that point, and I don't think we're likely to. This is an excellent lesson in how NOT to approach people in niches you don't know well.

Don't worry. You'll survive it.

Paul

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DC Marketing

14 years ago

I just love this place!

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Harvey Segal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

So, Paleochora... WHY did you acuse him of being like HITLER!?!?

Paleochora thought the mod said 'sig heil'

It was in fact 'sig file'

Harvey

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

WHY did you acuse him of being like HITLER!?!?

Not quite as funny as Harvey's response, but... Because he's never heard of Godwin's Law.

You may rest assured that virtually everyone involved in the OOo project has, and that most of them take it, in its various forms and corollaries, seriously.

Paul

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Not quite as funny as Harvey's response, but... Because he's never heard of Godwin's Law.

You may rest assured that virtually everyone involved in the OOo project has, and that most of them take it, in its various forms and corollaries, seriously.

Paul

OH, I have heard about "godwins law" WAY too frequently here, BUT....

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

But leave it to someone to figure "OH, it is simply word substitution", "OH, computers are smarter than people", "Programming is just talking nicely to a computer","OH, changing an aritcle to look different can't POSSIBLY offend writers" and insult someone and come here and say "I am SO ANGRY"! Given THAT, I guess I can see why the added insult was used so quickly. Likewise, I figured would state that RIGHT UP FRONT.

Steve

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Paul Myers

14 years ago

Steve,

I was thinking more of the common misquote, which states that the first person to invoke Hitler inappropriately loses. The link to the Wikipedia summary was so people could see the whole context, including the original.

I forget the name given to the misquote. I was surprised Wikipedia didn't have it included in the article.

Paul

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Steve,

I was thinking more of the common misquote, which states that the first person to invoke Hitler inappropriately loses. The link to the Wikipedia summary was so people could see the whole context, including the original.

I forget the name given to the misquote. I was surprised Wikipedia didn't have it included in the article.

Paul

I could say something about that misquote, but it seems I would likely be seen as inciting something. Suffice it to say that that, and things like it, are NOT necessarily true.

Steve

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Barry,You can't (delete a thread), once someone responds. Only the mods can at that point, and I don't think we're likely to. This is an excellent lesson in how NOT to approach people in niches you don't know well.l

It's also a good lesson not to post in anger. Posting in forums like this isn't like posting in a football forum or political forum where opinions often turn to anger and even stupidity. You're establishing a business image here, posting in anger usually doesn't do much to enhance that image. Self-control people, self-control.

In a side note, why use a fake forum name in a forum like this? You're only building an image for an avatar rather than for yourself or your business. I'm sure there are legitimate reasons, but do they outweigh the benefit of building your own name or company name?

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

It's also a good lesson not to post in anger. Posting in forums like this isn't like posting in a football forum or political forum where opinions often turn to anger and even stupidity. You're establishing a business image here, posting in anger usually doesn't do much to enhance that image. Self-control people, self-control.

In a side note, why use a fake forum name in a forum like this? You're only building an image for an avatar rather than for yourself or your business. I'm sure there are legitimate reasons, but do they outweigh the benefit of building your own name or company name?

On the first paragraph, you are certainly right. On the second?????

Well, I certainly can't speak for everyone, but when I first signed up it was still not considered smart to use your REAL name. A lot of people DO know my real name though, I am not hiding. It ALSO is the first part of my company name.

Perhaps I should have been MORE secret with my name elsewhere. Even an old post on tucows, dated 5 years ago, and some idiot company(that should be sued and I hope they are) is trying to sell data on me that is over 15 years out of date! It is a pity they have my birthdate, since my age, name, and maybe mother, are about the only things they have right. They even got the STATE wrong!

When I first came here, this place seemed less incestuous, and wasn't really in the market I wanted to approach anyway.

Steve

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

On the first paragraph, you are certainly right. On the second?????

Well, I certainly can't speak for everyone, but when I first signed up it was still not considered smart to use your REAL name. A lot of people DO know my real name though, I am not hiding. It ALSO is the first part of my company name.

Perhaps I should have been MORE secret with my name elsewhere. Even an old post on tucows, dated 5 years ago, and some idiot company(that should be sued and I hope they are) is trying to sell data on me that is over 15 years out of date! It is a pity they have my birthdate, since my age, name, and maybe mother, are about the only things they have right. They even got the STATE wrong!

When I first came here, this place seemed less incestuous, and wasn't really in the market I wanted to approach anyway.

Steve

Hi Steve - You seem to have assumed I'm saying people should use their real name, which I'm not. I said there may be good reasons for using an alias, but questioned if those reasons outweigh the benefits of building your name or company name.

I didn't make this clear, but my post wasn't really intended for "old-timers" like you. I was just offering food for thought for guests who are considering joining. After all, if you want to build a brand, be it your name or a company name, calling yourself RubberDuckie888 isn't really going to help that cause.

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Michael Oksa

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Hi Steve - You seem to have assumed I'm saying people should use their real name, which I'm not. I said there may be good reasons for using an alias, but questioned if those reasons outweigh the benefits of building your name or company name.

I didn't make this clear, but my post wasn't really intended for "old-timers" like you. I was just offering food for thought for guests who are considering joining. After all, if you want to build a brand, be it your name or a company name, calling yourself RubberDuckie888 isn't really going to help that cause.

Unless you happen to sell rubber ducks via a toll-free telephone number.

- - - - - - - - -

Others have brought it up, but it's a good rule for all online communication. Private messages stay private, public comments can be commented on publicly. For example, there have been many times when I've received favorable PM comments for my WSOs, but I never post or quote them without express permission. My main line of thinking is that the person may not want others to know that they purchased the product. Oh, and it's just common sense - and we all know how common THAT is.

- - - - - - - - -

A big kudos to you, Paleochora!

Yes, for calming down, but more importantly, for using the proper plural form of forum.

All the best,
Michael

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Mike Anthony

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Paleochora

I posted in the Open Office Writer forum to see if there was a article spinning plug in for OO Writer or if anyone there had the know-how to write one. I thought this ws a reasonable question and request.

And look how i got treated.

Well as a programmer I'll give you another perspective. Frankly your Op would have ticked me off a bit as well (and without any moral objections to spinning). If you dont' know how to do programming don't claim to know what is easy or not. Any functional software app beyond "Hello world" (industry standard beginner's code) takes time and dedication to learn how to program in the first place..

What makes it worse is you are asking for a specialty mod (yes spinning is not main line word processor usage) in an open source piece of software so essentially you are sauntering into their forum asking for customized programming, for them to do it for free and then telling them it should be easy for them to give it to you sthat um it can help you make money.

Bad move. It can and really did come across as disrespectful of what goes into programming that application and any plugin or mod that works with it. I suspect you got back maybe a little bit more than you deserved (but sorry this programmer thinks you deserved some) because of alot of disrespect programmers get with open source software.

Its crazy when you see people claiming that people's time , energy and expertise is someone else's right and it happens all the time when you see people complaining about all kinds of things for software that they didn't pay a dime for..

Think of it this way. How about I ask you to spend a few hundred hours writing me a series of articles and you do it for free and then I come back with how I would like some of them rewritten to my specifications and tell you no worries it should be easy?

Incidentally if thats fine with you just tell me when you can start?

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Matt Bard

14 years ago

You should at least go back to post number 3 and delete it or edit out the private message.

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Alan Petersen

14 years ago

I agree you got off lightly. An open source community such as that one was not a good place for that.

easy for someone to programme

I'm surprised you didn't get filleted about that more than the spinner. Programmers hate it when non-programmers tell them it should be easy to program something.

I personally don't like spinners and re-write software either but I know they're quiet popular so you might be on to something with your idea.

Instead of stewing in anger why don't you bid it out on Rent A Coder or eLance? It could be a great list building or marketing tool for you to offer your own OO writer extension.

First of course check to see if you can you offer it for an opt-in or to sell it. Again, the open source community doesn't like that type of stuff so not sure if it violates open office terms of use or not.

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seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Alan Petersen

I personally don't like spinners and re-write software either but I know they're quiet popular so you might be on to something with your idea.

Don't even credit Paleochora with THAT! I, and I am sure MANY, programmers wrote something SIMILAR. I use it if a programming language changes function names, there is an asthetic change I want to make globally, etc... The reason why THAT is so simple though is because, like Paleochora's simplistic example, it has a list of change X to Y. It is GREAT for CRUDE editing, or a specific circumstance, but NOT for the general sort of things Paleochora asked for. Paleochora even mentioned using a thesaurus. That is a GREAT idea if the user knows the language and the context of the document, but computers DON'T! So what a smart 4 year old would see as SIMPLE here is something that can be difficult to program.

Hey, look at translators? Some might say THEY are simple. Replace english words with spanish, and viola! But what is a sheet? Does it go on a bed? What is the definite article? Should a double negative be used? Is it a question or an exclamation? What preposition says it is on something? ALL are valid questions. Many would be used for a good spinner. Yet nobody here can answer them. EVEN if you are fluent in English and Spanish, without the context, there is no answer.

Steve
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Heidi White

14 years ago

I agree with Matt M.

Even if you can't delete a post or thread in it's entirety, you can still EDIT it.

Just rewrite the post to explain the essence of what you experienced and the lessons learned, (I think this post has value - because we can all learn from your experience)

Just be sure (IMO) to delete the link to the other forum and the actual contents of the copied PM.

And then maybe - after you've had a chance to reflect on your part in this matter - you can go back to the forum and do a little fence mending (or not.)

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Matt Bard

14 years ago

So if Godwin could see that a person could spin an idea to the point of watering it down, then could a spinner do it faster?

I'm in trouble now.

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I am SO ANGRY!!!

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