Are you falsely accusing email publishers of SPAM?

21 replies
Hi Warriors

Have you falsely accused someone of spam lately?

Too often, the "this is spam" button is pressed irresponsibly. It's a growing
problem that needs to be addressed.

A "this is spam" button is not a "delete this email" button nor the
"unsubscribe from this list" button.

Now I hate real spam as much as anyone. But it's important to be truthful
and honest with ourselves..

Just because we're having a bad day and/or don't like or approve of the
email we've received, or aren't happy because we've received more emails
than we wanted from a marketer/publisher, or just because it contains
hype.. does NOT make it spam.

Also, not remembering that we subscribed doesn't make it spam either. It
just means we don't remember!

With that said, if you are subscribed to a list where you're receiving 2 or
more emails a week, there's really no excuse for not knowing and
recognizing the sender.

If someone rarely emails you after opting in (ie, twice a month), I can
understand not remembering and therefore believing that an email might
be spam.

(Side Note) Many of the top email management services like GetResponse
and Aweber, etc have a "change your details" link available at the end of
every email. If you check that link, you may find a clue as to what list
you're own and why you opted in because you'll see the name of the list
and/or other pertinent info that may "ring a bell" or jog your memory.

Regardless, there's a quick and responsible solution and you'll find it at the
bottom of every and all responsible and honest email marketers' emails.
It's an "unsubscribe" link.

It surprises me that a lot of people have no idea that it's there :confused:. It
probably doesn't help when some email marketers push those links about
50 spaces down as to hide them. I usually put them a paragraph down
(4-5 line spaces). If someone doesn't want to be on my list, I don't want
them on it either.

I believe most marketers are honest and do their best to play by the rules.
Afterall, it's their business. Why would we do anything to put it in danger?

Did you know that when you act "off the cuff" and carelessly hit the spam
button, that you may put the publisher's email or domain on a black list?!

This can prevent and block legitimate emails from reaching those who
actually WANT to receive information from the publisher! Not to mention
cost the publisher thousands of dollars in revenue.

Believe me, there are uneducated "blacklist" sites out there that some
ISP's blindly rely on to help them filter emails. Those "shady" sites don't
care about responsible marketers and openly say it's not their place to
monitor where the complaint comes from or whether or not it's legitimate.
So all it takes is some disgruntled individual to do something irrational and
irresponsible and "bam", you're screwed.

Is that really what you want to happen? Are you willing to take that
chance on hurting honest businesses (whether you like them or not)
because you were pissed off one day or couldn't remember opting in,
and/or were just plain lazy and took the easy way out and hit the spam
button (or filed a complaint)? If the shoe were on the other foot, would
you want to be victim to that?

Of course not. That's a hard pill to swallow when you know that you're an
honest individual whose operating an honest and responsible business and
doing your best to comply with the rules only to have someone slap you in
the virtual face.

On behalf of all honest marketers, PLEASE think before you act the next
time you reach for the "spam" button or get ready to send a spam
complaint. Is it really spam? Or did you just want to unsubscribe or delete
the email?

Thanks for reading

Dave
#accusing #email #falsely #publishers #spam
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Lovelace
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      And if I never heard of them at all and they're trying repeatedly to sell me pharmaceuticals, then can I report the spamming *******s? :confused:
      Ha! Good point. Those 'guys' are the blatently obvious spammers.

      My reference, however, is primarily for subscribers of Internet Marketing related emails where they opted in to receive related info.

      Dave
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by Dave Lovelace View Post

        My reference, however, is primarily for subscribers of Internet Marketing related emails where they opted in to receive related info.Dave
        Originally Posted by Killer Joe View Post

        It's all too easy these days to sign up for someones list and find out that marketer is just using their list as an ATM.
        I'm with KJ on this issue.

        Just because someone "double opts in" to your list does not imply any obligation to read any subsequent correspondence you send them. They probably just wanted the "freebie" report, or whatever it was you seduced them onto your list with.

        Personally, if you send me information, I am quite happy to read your emails. If every email you send is "flogging product" though, the spam button will be hit.

        Not by accident, but deliberately. And with malice aforethought.
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        • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

            If you subscribed/opted in then you are actually lying about it being spam when you reported it, if you made no effort to unsubscribe.
            '

            I think this is rather a grey area.

            The reality is that when I opt-in to your list, I want emails of a specific type. But you make me agree to accept any emails at all. You know that's not what I want, but you make me agree to it anyway, and I agree to it under the bond of trust that you won't abuse it.

            If all I do when you abuse it is unsubscribe, what do you really have to lose?

            Furthermore, if you broke one bond of trust, why not break another? "Unsubscribe" might not really unsubscribe. Remember, when receiving real spam, we're directly instructed NEVER to click the "unsubscribe" link because it just tells the spammer that the email address works!
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            • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
              Some marketers shoot themselves in the foot by making it hard to unsubscribe. If you deliberately piss people off by putting obstacles in their way, they are more likely to hit the spam button.

              Some common sharp practices I have noticed

              1. Having to scroll down acres of white space to find the unsubscribe link.

              2. Unsubscribe links in tiny fonts.

              3. Calling the unsubscribe link something like "Contact us to find out more about managing your subscriptions".

              4. The one that got me hitting the spam button - you click unsubscribe and you find yourself at a membership site where you have to login. You click on "forgot password?" and the site doesn't recognise your email address. Or you get the password and when you get to the membership site the cancel membership option is really hard to find.

              Martin
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            • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

                As to "Bond of Trust"? I read that as "Sense of Entitlement" and a refusal to keep an agreement you made. You agreed I could send you any email
                ...and now you feel entitled to send me any email.

                I trust you not to abuse that, just as you trust me not to abuse the "spam" button.

                But if you do abuse it, you have broken our agreement, and I have no further obligation not to hit the "spam" button.

                I think a lot of people are too quick to term something "abuse." I personally don't think it's abuse to send the occasional unrelated email just to see if it works. But once your email does start to abuse the relationship, you're just as fair a target as any other spammer.
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                "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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                  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                    Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

                    Now you're just being obtuse....
                    And you're being disingenuous.

                    Yes, the contract I agreed to was that you could email me anything, anytime, because it's impossible for you to predict what you might want to send me.

                    So you ask me to agree that you can send ANYTHING... to make sure you're not stuck over there saying "oh, woe is me, I have this wonderful offer to send Caliban - but he never agreed that I could send him emails about this!"

                    And I agree to it, because I don't want that either. I want you to send me wonderful offers! That would be great!

                    But then you send me donkey porn.

                    Okay, that's an over-the-top exaggeration for comic effect. You'd never send me donkey porn, right? Right. But you've asked me to pre-approve ANYTHING YOU MIGHT EVER WANT TO SEND, which is a risky proposition. And I've agreed only because you have assured me that you won't send anything hateful. But you did, because we don't have a clear understanding.

                    Some people don't understand that you don't know what they think.

                    My wife used to be consistently confused when she asked me to pick up bread on the way home, and then I came in the door with nothing but bread. Surely I knew we also needed peanut butter and cheese. After all, she thought of the bread while she was making the kids sandwiches, and we're almost out of peanut butter and cheese! It was obvious!

                    She honestly did not grasp that I was sixty miles away when she called me. And if I called her from the store to ask if there was anything else we needed, she'd happily say "nope!" while thinking "just the bread, peanut butter, and cheese!"

                    Those are the people who hit the spam button the second you cross the invisible line. It may not be fair, but you crossed the line. To some small degree, it's your fault, too.
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                    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                    • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
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                      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                        Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

                        No, you're wrong - you agreed to allow me to send you ANY email...and I've assured you of nothing.
                        And I didn't assure you I wouldn't hit the spam button, either.

                        You want fair? Be fair. If you're not, I don't have to be.
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                        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

            You're just as big a problem as the idiots doing the spamming...
            If they see me as being an inconvenience lying in between them and my money, (and it's easy to tell the ones who do), then I will regard them as spam. A quid pro quo of sorts.

            They have no respect for me, there's no reason to extend them any.
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  • Profile picture of the author hugofortin
    Hi,

    I never thought of it! Yes, I think I'm guilty. I just don't take the time to check each and every e-mail I receive. I receive too much e-mails something. This is a problems.

    It can cause trouble to the sender. I know, I know...

    Hugo
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      Did you know that when you act "off the cuff" and carelessly hit the spam
      button, that you may put the publisher's email or domain on a black list?!
      Yes, I know it, and I also know for certain when I didn't sign up to receive email from that person or company. I am not reporting anyone because I'm in a bad mood or forgetful.

      I do not sign up for *any* lists at my primary email address. So when list mail arrives there, the sender deserves to be reported as a spammer.

      People still seem to believe that if they receive subscriber mail from someone - because they opted in (double opt in) - then they can send that someone their newsletter and announcements. Nope, that is spam.

      Marcia Yudkin
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      • Profile picture of the author Dave Lovelace
        Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

        I do not sign up for *any* lists at my primary email address. So when list mail arrives there, the sender deserves to be reported as a spammer.

        Marcia Yudkin
        Re: the sender deserves to be reported as a spammer.

        I agree.. 99.9% of the time you would be correct in reporting it, but you may not have considered this..

        How do you know that someone else didn't use your name and email and signed up to the sender's list without your permission?

        The sender wouldn't know it. So you would be reporting spam unfairly in this incidence. BUT if they're using double opt-in, then you're protected and you wouldn't want to complain when you receive a confirmation email based on that fact.

        FYI: the one who used your email without your permission may not be anyone you know. It happens. Email harvesters can wreak havoc. I remember opening a brand new email account and never using it for months. Then I logged in one day to find hundreds of spam emails! Go figure.

        Regardless, my post is referencing honest and responsible email marketers who typically use double opt-in which would mean you would get a "confirmation request" email before you would be listed in their database. If you didn't make the request, then you do nothing and you won't get any further email from them.

        Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author digigo
    I think the problem is not our fellow warriors. We are more knowledgeable about internet marketing and advertising. personally I am very tolerant of this matter. I rarely click that "SPAM" button .. then I do not receive much spam to begin with.

    The problem is Joe Six Pack .. They are the problem. But hey you can not blame them. How are they supposed to know the difference between unsubscribe or spam? Spam is the way they say "I don't like it" and the worst part is once they start clicking that button, it sticks.

    I believe email industry know this problem already. They figure this into their spam detection program and discount those "frequent clickers".. but still

    Part of the risk you take for being in the business I guess
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Lovelace
      Originally Posted by digigo View Post

      I think the problem is not our fellow warriors. We are more knowledgeable about internet marketing and advertising.
      I agree for the most part. Just trying to raise awareness for those who may be less knowledgeable.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Dave Lovelace View Post

    Also, not remembering that we subscribed doesn't make it spam either. It
    just means we don't remember!
    However, if your email is not in English, and has a CAN-SPAM compliant footer claiming I subscribed... I know you're lying.

    I can parse my way VERY slowly through a great many foreign languages. (One of the benefits of extensive library research.) But it's such an outrageous pain in the arse, I would never in a million years sign up for a list that sent all its emails in those languages.

    I do stay subscribed to a lot of lists that look like I might have subscribed, even when I am pretty sure I didn't. Because... hey, other people might want to think about this, too.

    Sometimes I get drunk.

    The last time I got really drunk, like blackout drunk, I registered a domain and put up a placeholder web site. I have no idea what I was going to do with it. There's either Chinese or Japanese in the middle of the placeholder; I don't know what it means or where I got it. (Seriously, http://www.spiritoftheway.com/ - haven't the faintest what I was doing.) It's pretty easy for me to believe that maybe I signed up to a list or two.
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      The last time I got really drunk, like blackout drunk, I registered a domain and put up a placeholder web site. I have no idea what I was going to do with it. There's either Chinese or Japanese in the middle of the placeholder; I don't know what it means or where I got it. (Seriously, http://www.spiritoftheway.com/ - haven't the faintest what I was doing.) It's pretty easy for me to believe that maybe I signed up to a list or two.
      Nice!

      When you think about it, it means you can still be productive, even if you were s**tfaced at the time.

      Have you considered flipping it for drunken cash? :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Killer Joe
    Originally Posted by Dave Lovelace View Post

    Just because we're having a bad day and/or don't like or approve of the email we've received, or aren't happy because we've received more emails than we wanted from a marketer/publisher, or just because it contains hype.. does NOT make it spam.
    Hi Dave,

    I don't buy that statement globally.

    It's all too easy these days to sign up for someones list and find out that marketer is just using their list as an ATM.

    I know, I know, how can that be. How can any marketer abuse their list. :rolleyes:

    Well a lot of them do, and I will be just as happy to hit the spam button as I will to unsubscribe.

    Perhaps in the long run others will benefit if these bozos are subjected to a little resistance on the way to using/abusing their ATM.

    KJ
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  • Profile picture of the author dawnpeterson
    Hi Dave!

    Excellent, excellent point! Well said...

    Best!

    -Dawn.
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    • Profile picture of the author ic7
      In all my broadcasts I put a little message first reminding the recipient why they are receiving this email. And I put a second unsubscribe link at the beginning of the email:

      {!remove_web}

      The complaints column is always 0% for me.

      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Bainbridge
    I have found this too - it is especially frustrating when someone buys something from us and when they receive the download link email they put it in their spam can

    All you can do is give people every opportunity to opt out of your lists and register with aol, yahoo etc for spam notification, and then you can make sure you remove the people who report you so they don't keep doing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
    Tactics I've seen recently is to claim I've subscribed via an email addy I only use for paypal. I never use this email addy other than to recieve paypal reciepts. So it appears some are opting me in when buying without me knowing/making it clear. The other tactic seems to be to spam this email addy as I may have bought something in the past and would I like to opt in to their email address...which seems to defeat the object of choosing to join someone's list.

    Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    I almost never use the spam button, even if it might be. At least not if it is easy to just unsubscribe and that unsubscribe is honored. (many times the unsubscribe makes me sign in somewhere that I am not even a member off! Or I continue to get emails after repeatedly unsubscribing. In those cases, spam complaints are the only option left.)
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