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Outsourcing Headaches

by Jay F
16 replies
Starting a thread to vent some frustration.

I hired a ghostwriter via elance to put together my first ebook based on a detailed outline (5 pages) I provided. Well, he had some good ideas, but we're now 3 weeks passed the due date, and still not done.

Before I hired him, I:
- reviewed writing samples
- checked with a previous client
- reviewed a copy of a previous ebook he wrote

I can't be sure, but I think he in turn outsourced my project and is simply editing before sending back to me. What a mess.

I've also had issues with an article writer and site designer. I didn't think I was consistently bad at picking freelancers, but maybe I am.

Moral: even though you may think you have the perfect freelancer, do not leave anything to chance. Be thorough and, if possible, speak with him/her on the phone prior to hiring.
#headaches #outsourcing
  • Profile picture of the author n7 Studios
    You always - without fail - need to test your outsourcer with a small sample 1 - 2 hour job. Provide instructions on the sample job (e.g. a writing task), and ensure the instructions you give are not sufficient enough for them to complete the work without asking questions.

    Also set a tight deadline i.e. within 24 hours. This ensures they can't have time to go passing the work on - they'll either produce the goods or they won't. If they turn around and say they can't do it in that time, fine - move onto the next candidate (you've probably had 20 - 30 apply anyway).

    This sample job will give you an excellent indication of their:
    - quality of work,
    - attention to detail,
    - ability to comprehend instructions (and ask questions where necessary),
    - ability to meet deadlines

    You can be upfront about this process on your advert. I always state that candidates will be given a test (paid) task of 1 - 2 hours, before being given the full job. Also don't be afraid to provide other samples of work, to show potential candidates the quality that you're looking for.

    Remember, anyone can put together an impressive portfolio of existing work, can talk the talk and seem like the ideal candidate. Very few can get through the above process, and those that do are the ones who you'll get great results from.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tasso Pepi
      Yeah i agree, in the early days of outsourcing I had trouble with my first article writer, it took him 2 weeks to complete a 500 word article!! and it was bloody terrible

      I have not had great success with Elance, i find them expensive and i don't always get the quality of work i want...

      Have you thought of outsourcing here on the forum, there are some great people here....

      Tas
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      • Profile picture of the author M Thompson
        I feel for you...I've been through it with outsourcers..

        the best tips i can give you... use odesk and choose writers with a good reputation with a fair number of hours under their belt. and test them with a small project that you don't care too much about never with your main project.
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    • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
      Originally Posted by n7 Studios View Post


      Also set a tight deadline i.e. within 24 hours. This ensures they can't have time to go passing the work on - they'll either produce the goods or they won't. If they turn around and say they can't do it in that time, fine - move onto the next candidate (you've probably had 20 - 30 apply anyway).
      Overall I agree with your tips, such as testing a new freelancer on a small project first.

      However, setting a tight deadline -- even on a tiny project -- may well disqualify many good, established freelancers. That's because a good freelancer is generally booked ahead a few weeks and sometimes even a couple months.

      Who has the time to do a 24 hour test? Well, you might get lucky and find an established freelancer who just happens to have free time. But otherwise, these are the two main groups who can meet a tight deadline:

      1. New freelancers who don't have an established client base yet. Hopefully, this is the type of freelancer you find with this test. (And hopefully they turn out to be good freelancers -- may have to do some hunting to separate the wheat from the chaff.)

      2. Freelancers who produce poor work and/or poor customer service. They don't get repeat business, so they have time to do the test.


      That doesn't mean you won't find a good freelancer by offering the 24 hour test. It just means that you're possibly excluding some very good freelancers in your hunt.

      ***

      Andy -- I was thinking the same thing about how this is the method some marketers are teaching for "easy money."

      Cheers,
      Becky
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      • Profile picture of the author n7 Studios
        Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

        Overall I agree with your tips, such as testing a new freelancer on a small project first.

        However, setting a tight deadline -- even on a tiny project -- may well disqualify many good, established freelancers. That's because a good freelancer is generally booked ahead a few weeks and sometimes even a couple months.
        A good freelancer's skillset should include excellent time management and surely some ability to set some time aside to get new work (unless they happen to be so good that the work always comes to them).

        Therefore, I'd expect a good freelancer to have some capacity to perform a 1 hour task within 24 hours. Remember, our advert will be telling potential applicants about this test task, and there's typically a delay between them applying, an interview being setup and the test task being given to the freelancer - so it's not a sudden surprise being sprung upon them.

        You're also missing a critical issue - if a freelancer is so good that they're booked weeks or months in advance, you'd either simply hire them on the strength of their existing work (but it'd have to be extremely good, and there'd need to be plenty of existing projects), or move onto the next one, as you may not wish to wait around for weeks.
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        • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
          Originally Posted by n7 Studios View Post

          You're also missing a critical issue - if a freelancer is so good that they're booked weeks or months in advance, you'd either simply hire them on the strength of their existing work (but it'd have to be extremely good, and there'd need to be plenty of existing projects), or move onto the next one, as you may not wish to wait around for weeks.
          Actually, this critical issue was part of my point as well -- that you don't need to put a 24-hour test on ALL freelancers... just those without solid track records.

          So, basically, we're saying the same thing -- but coming at it from different angles.

          Cheers,
          Becky
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    I've had the same pain several times too...

    It's ironic though that the guy you're referring to is doing exactly what some people tell newbie IMers to do (hey man, outsource everything and you can take work for jobs you can't even do yourself).
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Actually, I was considering passing on some warrior writing jobs to my writer, but I thought there wouldn't be much demand from people willing to pay what he's worth so I haven't exposed him to this place yet
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author munstersg01
    I agree even when I use Odesk, I feel it is better to provide the freelancer with small projects first and slowly increasing the project size.

    I guess some of the freelancers are not used to doing huge load.
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  • Profile picture of the author jedz
    Banned
    Hi JayF,

    I understand your concern.

    We are an outsourcing company and before we lease our staff to our clients we make sure that they are capable enough and meet all the qualifications need by the client. They can interview the staff and they are included in the selection process.
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  • Profile picture of the author nyrsimon
    I think everybody expects outsourcing to go well off the bat. The reality seems to be about a 33% - 50% success rate for me. Yes at least half my jobs don't get me what I want WHEN I use NEW people

    Over time you will build up your stable of outsource folks: writers, designers, coders etc

    Then the hit rate gets VERY close to 100%

    In the long run it is very much worth it..

    Simon
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  • Profile picture of the author intrnetmarketingprofessor
    Originally Posted by Jay F View Post

    Starting a thread to vent some frustration.

    I hired a ghostwriter via elance to put together my first ebook based on a detailed outline (5 pages) I provided. Well, he had some good ideas, but we're now 3 weeks passed the due date, and still not done.

    Before I hired him, I:
    - reviewed writing samples
    - checked with a previous client
    - reviewed a copy of a previous ebook he wrote

    I can't be sure, but I think he in turn outsourced my project and is simply editing before sending back to me. What a mess.

    I've also had issues with an article writer and site designer. I didn't think I was consistently bad at picking freelancers, but maybe I am.

    Moral: even though you may think you have the perfect freelancer, do not leave anything to chance. Be thorough and, if possible, speak with him/her on the phone prior to hiring.
    Freelancers can indeed be a problem, but be patient, once you find the right person, it will surely be worth your while.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jay F
    There is some great advice here, thank you. But, even outsourcing here on WF, you probably need to exercise the same cautions. I suppose everyone needs to develop their own trial and error system until they come up with the right group of freelancers.
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  • Profile picture of the author grayambition
    There's TONS of great advice for outsourcing in these threads:
    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...nHfezEF7AGaK0D
    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...32tlPyMs6l63bQ

    And just this morning, ramone_johnny posted a great Work Order Form template that can easily be adapted to any situation:
    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ZkWkmuctDL7BgU
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    Substitute "damn" every time you're inclined to write "very"; your editor will delete it and the writing will be just as it should be. ~Mark Twain

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    • Profile picture of the author J5isAlive
      Most freelancers do reoutsource your work. I do with offline clients. I have worked with my article writers for a while now and I found them through getafreelancer. They put out good articles in fast turn around time. They just need incentive. I try to motivate with bonus structure and always state in writeup if are x amount late I will do a charge back. You have to be stern and communicate well with these guys. You are all on different time zones and so you need to get time differences all figured out from the getgo. I have yet to use odesk just because I have almost a full staff but I have heard nothing but great things about the people their so maybe you can try that. I feel for you with the issues when I was first starting to test out freelancers I had some serious disasters. Stay positive and figure out a solution.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mukul Verma
    Outsourcing is like anything else, you will tend to have higher success as you do it more often. Yes, you will still have people that go missing or people that given you issues that comes with outsourcing. I am writing a ebook which will be a WSO feeler for a membership site having outsourced for a couple years now and people suffering when this should be a tool to leverage to save time and money.

    I feel that people when they outsource expect to give there outsource worker a project and go. You will need to work with your outsource person as a team member and find there knowledge level and help them succeed in getting your task done. That initial investment when hiring can pay off big time.

    If you are hiring full time, always put them on a 1 month probation period no matter what.

    Last tip; I find that for tasks that I am a master at, I like hiring newbies who are motivated and creating training videos. So they have no perception on how a task should be done (they will pick up my good and bad habits) and they are cheaper (as little as $150 a month on Best Jobs)

    Cheers,
    Mukul
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