Have self promotional rules been relaxed?

James Schramko · 10-09-2008, 03:22 AM

Hi,

I noticed there are some interesting trends taking place in here:

1) People are posting a new thread and then within the first sentence making some comment that they then link off site to a blog post they just made... (I would rather they copy the post for us and leave it in here.)

2) Some people are directly embedding their own videos (like tutorials) with watermarked URLs into posts to promote their site.

Should we be sticking to the BIO box or have we loosened up a little?

Peter Bestel · 10-09-2008, 03:44 AM

I've noticed this too James, it's becoming a bit boring.

I know we talk about the self-promotion rules, but are there actually any written down? I couldn't find any, but if someone would like to point me to them, I'd be most grateful.

Peter

James Turner · 10-09-2008, 03:47 AM

Now the forum is being moderated by members, it's up to us all to report violations. If you see something that goes beyond what you believe is acceptable then hit the button.

We need to hope that there are enough of us hitting the button to make a difference.

If these posts are allowed to stay then it can only be because the majority find them acceptable.

James

James Schramko · 10-09-2008, 04:19 AM

Cool,

I have seen in another forum where they have a section for members to add tutorials and videos. I wonder if that would be a good section to add?

BIG Mike · 10-09-2008, 04:22 AM

There are no rules written down - although it would be nice, you then get the clubhouse lawyers trying to game them through perceived loopholes (took me a while to learn that here).

As to guidelines? What I believe has been the "rule" about self-promotion from my MOD days (and Allen or the guys would have to confirm this) is:

1. You may NOT start a thread to promote a product or WSO.
2. You may respond to an existing thread and offer a product link IF it is within the context of the thread.

The folks starting a thread to talk about their WSO's, either upcoming, or they're doing badly, etc., or whatever are on thin ice if those two rules still apply.

The individuals starting threads to ask about pricing a product and then turning it into one long promotion are also on thin ice.

For example, whenever someone starts a thread asking about automating downloads, more often than not you'll see a bunch of posts recommending DLGuard and Sam in there discussing it. That's generally appropriate and consider that Sam has been around a long time and is a solid member.

Bottom line? Report them if you see them.

lgibbon · 10-09-2008, 04:25 AM

Yes it's getting a bit tedious.
The same could be said about the bumping rules.
That's another form of self promotion, where someone decides
their post is more important than anyone elses,
and keeps it bumped for weeks on end.
I'm sure you've noticed those never ending posts.

James Schramko · 10-09-2008, 04:25 AM

Thanks Big Mike,

Your experience is worth gold.

It is really the YouTube embedding that has moved a paradigm. I think there can be some really great enhancements made if regulated by the population.

dustinlemos · 10-09-2008, 04:26 AM

Certain people can get away with bending the rules. JoeBlow with post-count:5 would be called out in minutes.

Peter Bestel · 10-09-2008, 04:32 AM

That's great Mike, but as they're not written down, as either rules or guidelines, it's up to new members to fall foul or witness others falling foul, of longer-standing members' interpretation of unwritten 'guidelines', before they know any better ! (You can breathe now)

This trial and error method seems a little clumsy. It's up to Allen of course, but an additional line or two in the 'Forum Rules' sticky wouldn't go amiss IMO.

Peter

BIG Mike · 10-09-2008, 04:57 AM

I agree Peter - unfortunately, it actually seems to get worse with them written down. It's not the typical newcomer causing the problem though - it's those intent on breaking the rules regardless.

The best thing a new member could do is sit back and lurk a little bit and then ask the questions as they go. That's also why Allen re-instated the infractions and had them expire in an hour or whatever - to nudge someone who might be doing something wrong inadvertently. It's a way to train members, I guess.

Stanley Tang · 10-09-2008, 05:03 AM

Well, as long as it provides value and not just a blatant spam of their own product, I don't mind.

Diana Lane · 10-09-2008, 06:00 AM

I've noticed this too. There's one thread in particular on the go at the moment that I abandoned quite early on when the OP kept telling everyone with a different point of view that they were wrong (without providing any evidence to back this up), and rudely objected to someone else who posted on 'his' thread with links to alternative sources of information.

It might have got better. I couldn't be bothered to read any more. It did nothing to foster debate whatsoever, and mostly said 'I own all the REAL knowledge on this subject - buy my product and I'll share!'

Free bad-mannered, self-opinionated product creator with every purchase. I think I'll pass.

John Taylor · 10-09-2008, 06:06 AM

As Mike has already mentioned, when the rules get expanded
it seems to generate a flurry of people who want to push the
boundaries.

There are always people who come here because of selfish
motives. They are way too small minded to see the benfit of
fully participating as a community member.

My personal opinion is that the novelty of being able to report
the crap has worn of for the majority of members. Standards
will inevitably slip with greater democratic 'freedom'.

As others have said.. if you see something that goes too far,
use the report button.

John

BIG Mike · 10-09-2008, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astracadia

I've noticed this too. There's one thread in particular on the go at the moment that I abandoned quite early on when the OP kept telling everyone with a different point of view that they were wrong (without providing any evidence to back this up), and rudely objected to someone else who posted on 'his' thread with links to alternative sources of information.

It might have got better. I couldn't be bothered to read any more. It did nothing to foster debate whatsoever, and mostly said 'I own all the REAL knowledge on this subject - buy my product and I'll share!'

Free bad-mannered, self-opinionated product creator with every purchase. I think I'll pass.

Looks like that thread is now gone

James Schramko · 10-09-2008, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Looks like that thread is now gone

power to the people!

Steven Wagenheim · 10-09-2008, 07:30 AM

There is a very simply solution to this problem.

You see something that you feel is self promotion or inappropriate, report it.

I have found that it doesn't take many reports to get a thread nuked.

If we all just do our part to watch over our home (yes, this is our home) it
won't get looted and vandalized.

End of problem.

James Schramko · 10-09-2008, 09:00 AM

Thanks Steven,

Yes that makes good sense.

I was thinking about the broken windows theory from The Tipping Point (fix things fast or they escalate). It may be difficult for some people to report a very popular person, so others see it and then hop on the bandwagon so to speak...

tommygadget · 10-09-2008, 09:03 AM

I have seen posts lately that blatantly violate the signature rules. Also, I have seen posts like this: Great info, I've found out how to make money also here: http://www.howispamthreadsandmakemoneytoo.com I just report the posts and move on.

TomG.

Elmer Hurlstone · 10-09-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Taylor

"...My personal opinion is that the novelty of being able to report
the crap has worn off for the majority of members. Standards
will inevitably slip with greater democratic 'freedom'.

As others have said.. if you see something that goes too far,
use the report button."

John

There really were some advantages of living under a benevolent dictatorship.

Elmer

10-09-2008, 03:22 AM	#1
James Schramko Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia. Posts: 3,223 Thanks: 133 Thanked 422 Times in 199 Posts Social Networking	Have self promotional rules been relaxed? Hi, I noticed there are some interesting trends taking place in here: 1) People are posting a new thread and then within the first sentence making some comment that they then link off site to a blog post they just made... (I would rather they copy the post for us and leave it in here.) 2) Some people are directly embedding their own videos (like tutorials) with watermarked URLs into posts to promote their site. Should we be sticking to the BIO box or have we loosened up a little?
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10-09-2008, 03:44 AM	#2
Peter Bestel there is no spoon War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Wigtown, Newton Stewart, Scotland. Posts: 1,194 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 183 Thanked 361 Times in 140 Posts Social Networking	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? I've noticed this too James, it's becoming a bit boring. I know we talk about the self-promotion rules, but are there actually any written down? I couldn't find any, but if someone would like to point me to them, I'd be most grateful. Peter
	Just Ten Minutes to Success? Magical Relaxations and Meditations for Kids

10-09-2008, 03:47 AM	#3
James Turner Active Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 49 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? Now the forum is being moderated by members, it's up to us all to report violations. If you see something that goes beyond what you believe is acceptable then hit the button. We need to hope that there are enough of us hitting the button to make a difference. If these posts are allowed to stay then it can only be because the majority find them acceptable. James

10-09-2008, 04:19 AM	#4
James Schramko Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia. Posts: 3,223 Thanks: 133 Thanked 422 Times in 199 Posts Social Networking	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? Cool, I have seen in another forum where they have a section for members to add tutorials and videos. I wonder if that would be a good section to add?
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10-09-2008, 04:22 AM	#5
BIG Mike Drunken Greek War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 9,630 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,847 Thanked 3,671 Times in 1,070 Posts	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? There are no rules written down - although it would be nice, you then get the clubhouse lawyers trying to game them through perceived loopholes (took me a while to learn that here). As to guidelines? What I believe has been the "rule" about self-promotion from my MOD days (and Allen or the guys would have to confirm this) is: 1. You may NOT start a thread to promote a product or WSO. 2. You may respond to an existing thread and offer a product link IF it is within the context of the thread. The folks starting a thread to talk about their WSO's, either upcoming, or they're doing badly, etc., or whatever are on thin ice if those two rules still apply. The individuals starting threads to ask about pricing a product and then turning it into one long promotion are also on thin ice. For example, whenever someone starts a thread asking about automating downloads, more often than not you'll see a bunch of posts recommending DLGuard and Sam in there discussing it. That's generally appropriate and consider that Sam has been around a long time and is a solid member. Bottom line? Report them if you see them.

10-09-2008, 04:25 AM	#6
lgibbon Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Medemblik, Netherlands. Posts: 5,803 Thanks: 230 Thanked 442 Times in 183 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? Yes it's getting a bit tedious. The same could be said about the bumping rules. That's another form of self promotion, where someone decides their post is more important than anyone elses, and keeps it bumped for weeks on end. I'm sure you've noticed those never ending posts.
	WSO

10-09-2008, 04:26 AM	#8
dustinlemos Professional Badass War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Newport Beach, Ca Posts: 80 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts Contact Info	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? Certain people can get away with bending the rules. JoeBlow with post-count:5 would be called out in minutes.

10-09-2008, 04:32 AM	#9
Peter Bestel there is no spoon War Room Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Wigtown, Newton Stewart, Scotland. Posts: 1,194 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 183 Thanked 361 Times in 140 Posts Social Networking	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? That's great Mike, but as they're not written down, as either rules or guidelines, it's up to new members to fall foul or witness others falling foul, of longer-standing members' interpretation of unwritten 'guidelines', before they know any better ! (You can breathe now) This trial and error method seems a little clumsy. It's up to Allen of course, but an additional line or two in the 'Forum Rules' sticky wouldn't go amiss IMO. Peter
	Just Ten Minutes to Success? Magical Relaxations and Meditations for Kids

10-09-2008, 04:57 AM	#10
BIG Mike Drunken Greek War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 9,630 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,847 Thanked 3,671 Times in 1,070 Posts	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? I agree Peter - unfortunately, it actually seems to get worse with them written down. It's not the typical newcomer causing the problem though - it's those intent on breaking the rules regardless. The best thing a new member could do is sit back and lurk a little bit and then ask the questions as they go. That's also why Allen re-instated the infractions and had them expire in an hour or whatever - to nudge someone who might be doing something wrong inadvertently. It's a way to train members, I guess.

10-09-2008, 05:03 AM	#11
Stanley Tang StanleyTang.com War Room Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,193 Thanks: 14 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts Social Networking	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? Well, as long as it provides value and not just a blatant spam of their own product, I don't mind.
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10-09-2008, 06:00 AM	#12
Diana Lane The Beer Hunter War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: United Kingdom. Posts: 1,220 Thanks: 186 Thanked 408 Times in 224 Posts	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? I've noticed this too. There's one thread in particular on the go at the moment that I abandoned quite early on when the OP kept telling everyone with a different point of view that they were wrong (without providing any evidence to back this up), and rudely objected to someone else who posted on 'his' thread with links to alternative sources of information. It might have got better. I couldn't be bothered to read any more. It did nothing to foster debate whatsoever, and mostly said 'I own all the REAL knowledge on this subject - buy my product and I'll share!' Free bad-mannered, self-opinionated product creator with every purchase. I think I'll pass.

10-09-2008, 06:06 AM	#13
John Taylor Recovering Millionaire War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Langholm, Scotland, United Kingdom. Posts: 10,049 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 1,214 Thanked 2,451 Times in 638 Posts Social Networking Contact Info	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? As Mike has already mentioned, when the rules get expanded it seems to generate a flurry of people who want to push the boundaries. There are always people who come here because of selfish motives. They are way too small minded to see the benfit of fully participating as a community member. My personal opinion is that the novelty of being able to report the crap has worn of for the majority of members. Standards will inevitably slip with greater democratic 'freedom'. As others have said.. if you see something that goes too far, use the report button. John
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10-09-2008, 07:30 AM	#16
Steven Wagenheim Content & Copywriting Wiz War Room Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Roselle, NJ, USA Posts: 16,394 Blog Entries: 11 Thanks: 1,531 Thanked 6,192 Times in 2,288 Posts Social Networking	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? There is a very simply solution to this problem. You see something that you feel is self promotion or inappropriate, report it. I have found that it doesn't take many reports to get a thread nuked. If we all just do our part to watch over our home (yes, this is our home) it won't get looted and vandalized. End of problem.
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10-09-2008, 09:00 AM	#17
James Schramko Senior Warrior Member War Room Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia. Posts: 3,223 Thanks: 133 Thanked 422 Times in 199 Posts Social Networking	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? Thanks Steven, Yes that makes good sense. I was thinking about the broken windows theory from The Tipping Point (fix things fast or they escalate). It may be difficult for some people to report a very popular person, so others see it and then hop on the bandwagon so to speak...
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10-09-2008, 09:03 AM	#18
tommygadget Banned War Room Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Up North, USA Posts: 2,517 Blog Entries: 11 Thanks: 88 Thanked 288 Times in 157 Posts Social Networking	Re: Have self promotional rules been relaxed? I have seen posts lately that blatantly violate the signature rules. Also, I have seen posts like this: Great info, I've found out how to make money also here: http://www.howispamthreadsandmakemoneytoo.com I just report the posts and move on. TomG.