30 replies
If you are looking at products in the IM niche (for example on clickbank), you will see that the vast majority of the products are actually really nothing ground-breaking new.

It is rarely the case that an IM product or course provides some "secret", never before seen information.

So..as an IMer and product creator you might make the mistake to over-think what product to create - you might think you need to come up with something extremely "exciting" and new, some killer product which will blow everything away.

The truth is that the success of your product is NOT that much decided by the quality of the product (quality plays a role but its actually a minor one, sadly), nor by the "novelty-factor" of the product.

It is simply decided by how you market (say: "hype") the product and by the PERCEIVED VALUE of the product.

Factors which (at first) seem secondary. But the more i observe the IM scene it becomes clear that THOSE are actually the deciding factors, the factors which can decide whether you make 100s of thousands of $$$ or are stuck with a product no one is interested in.

* Memorizable "flashy" product name
* Good marketing, especially pre-launch marketing and building of anticipation and hype, JVs with "big name" marketers etc..etc.
* perceived quality by simply "inflating" information, eg. converting something which could be a simple 15 page WSO into videos, forums, site memberships etc..

This is why its called internet "marketing". Its the MARKETING part which will make you money at the end. This might be obvious for some tho..but just some food for thought....
#fact #sad #true
  • Profile picture of the author NikkiG
    Yup, same is true in most markets (even medicine) I mean at the risk of being unfashionable look at the Apple product range.

    They are probably the best consumer electronics marketing company around.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarkFreeman
    Most of it is just repackaged information ... some good, but mostly I have seen a lot of it before so i agree.

    I am hesitant about buying IM products most of the time but I do admire how some of thier marketing is so good i find myself at the almost buying stage before my inner skeptic kicks me in the bum

    To be honest though it is also in most niches ... most products are not revolutionary at all. It is all about the marketing and the relationship and the sales copy that hooks into the readers emotional soft spots.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
    I think this was discussed last year at length ...

    Great products don't necessarily sell, great copywriting does ...

    Yes, sad but true.
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  • Profile picture of the author badboy_Nick
    I 100% agree. Sadly, we now live in a world where quality has taken a backseat and big marketing budgets almost dictate the success of a product. Is competitive advantage still possible with a good quality product? Yes, but nobody will ever know about it in the mist of all the garbage around them.
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    same in every industry. do not just pick on I.M. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
    I think the value of information comes from looking at it with different eyes. For instance, a report on using M$ word features might not be exciting but if it is applied to a specific field -- like "M$ Word Tricks You Can You To Automate Your Legal Firm and Save $10,000 per year" -- it is of more perceived value.

    Spot on with the repackaging tho. I remember reading a study that a cola company did and all they did was improve the look of the can and people perceived the same product as tasting better. Same with increasing the price of the drink. Go figure!
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Yes, a lot of information is repackaged but you may be missing why it is sometimes worth the purchase.

      Sometimes the way the information is presented allows some people to learn easier than other products.

      I normally look for little gems that can make me money. It may be the same information but have a certain method that I haven't seen before that will help me make more money.

      I guess all the text books and stuff on the internet has been said before as well.

      Heck, there are tons of software products that all do the same thing. A lot of times the more popular products are just easier for someone to use.

      Either way it is all in the way you look at it. You can complain everything is same old same old or you can look for that little information that was worth the price of the product.

      In all the products I have purchased, there was only a few times that I couldn't find an idea that wasn't worth the price of the product.


      Tomato... tomato
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    • Profile picture of the author Lee Wilson
      Depends really on what you are hoping to get out of it. Sure, there is some real crap out there but to some extent it's the job of the buyer to not get too click happy.

      I don't buy many IM products but when I do I am never looking for a secret and I don't fall for any of the hype - all I want is time savers. I agree there is nothing new but how long does it take to find all this stuff out. There's always someone who's doing something you haven't thought of yet and for $50 or whatever, you often get something that might change the way you do things.

      To be honest, anything I have ever bought, I get about 0.05% value out of it, but that tiny percentage will be worth every penny in the amount of time I save before I stumble across that same idea.

      For this reason I would say some of the IM stuff is the least misleading of everything else on Clickbank. Take for instance things like the "save your marriage" niche, or "dog training" etc. These kinds of products are in abundance on Clickbank, yet what are they really?

      Many of these kinds of ebooks are written by non-experts ($500 on elance) and add up to half the content that you would find in a hard copy book on Amazon, written by somebody who knows what they are talking about - but for three times the price without the running costs. These are the ones that really are utter rip offs.
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  • It's always been the case that information is repackaged. Hence the wide interest in PLR.

    Now, repackaging information can be very valuable. A lot of ebooks aren't documented in an easy to follow, step-by-step form. The worst ones are those that just look like a collection of articles which have been put into a book.

    So, think about how this can be made into a course, rather than just a collection of information.

    Another aspect to consider is catering for different learning styles. Nowadays, the information market splits clearly into different learning demographics - those who like to read, those who like to watch, those who like personal training etc. Although the information is largely the same, the different presentations appeal to completely different people. If you can find a gap in the learning agenda, this gives you a perfect repackaging opportunity to exploit.
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  • Profile picture of the author simonstepsys
    Oh, I can't agree more. I do believe that this lack of groundbreaking ideas is really caused by the fear of most people of failure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kris Turner
    A lot of times, especially in IM, people are so obsessed with teaching "tricks" and "sneaky tactics" that there is actually a lack of high-quality "basic" information.

    The gap in the market is actually for high quality products covering what everyone else skips, or what everyone else ignores in favour of what is currently seen as sexy, or "ninja," to use the ridiculous term that hangs around the IM market.
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  • Profile picture of the author strobe
    Why IM products will sell... Well when you see someone making 6 figures doing IM and you're only hitting double figures you want to know why. Thing is you probably already know... I think there are probably a handful of products that will assist your earnings per year. But that doesnt stop WSO's selling out in the hundreds day in day out. I'm sure many Warriors earn more selling help products than actual IM.

    I'm guilty of it as are many here - we look for the magic bullet that's just around the corner... Well here's the magic bullet (borrowed from an IMer light years better than me at the game... but hey I'm catching up) Perfect theory is no where near as valuable as imperfect practice. All writers have heard the term "write or you'll be written off"... It applies to us too.

    I think the best analogy I can come up with is that of farming. Our farming field is unlimited in size. How often are we sewing our seeds (sites). Going back watering them (adding content). At harvest time (payday) we reep what we've sewed.

    The more seeds we sew, the bigger our harvest potential. We can spend all day reading the seed packet or we can begin planting... Its your call
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    • Profile picture of the author Tyson Faulkner
      I guess it really is too bad that great products will go unnoticed without good copywriting, and a bad product will sell like crazy if there's good copywriting.

      HOWEVER, I firmly believe that anyone that is perfect at marketing will not build a very good long term business if all the produce is junk that looks fancy.

      One of the best ways to spread the word of your business is by word-of-mouth, and that won't happen if you have a crappy product. But if you overdeliver with every product, you will earn a reputation and ultimately make more sales.

      Once your customers see the value that you give them compared to everyone else, they will be impressed and remember you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raygun
    I agree that most of the information is repackaged too. But I think that to the best ways to build a long term business online is to make sure that what you have is some good stuff. That means that you actually have done what you say and got some positive results.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    This is exactly why I'm moving into more one-on-one interaction instead of just selling info products. I feel like I can give something more unique and useful by selling myself, not just my words. It obviously takes a lot more in terms of personal investment of time and energy vs. writing an ebook or shooting videos, but it's a lot more satisfying. And most importantly, based on the feedback I get, the people who "buy" my stuff get a lot more out of it, too. I think this is the way to set yourself apart from Clickbank and WSO sellers... if you're comfortable immersing yourself a lot deeper and dealing with people more directly.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Benjamin
      Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

      If you are looking at products in the IM niche (for example on clickbank), you will see that the vast majority of the products are actually really nothing ground-breaking new.

      It is rarely the case that an IM product or course provides some "secret", never before seen information.

      So..as an IMer and product creator you might make the mistake to over-think what product to create - you might think you need to come up with something extremely "exciting" and new, some killer product which will blow everything away.

      The truth is that the success of your product is NOT that much decided by the quality of the product (quality plays a role but its actually a minor one, sadly), nor by the "novelty-factor" of the product.

      It is simply decided by how you market (say: "hype") the product and by the PERCEIVED VALUE of the product.

      Factors which (at first) seem secondary. But the more i observe the IM scene it becomes clear that THOSE are actually the deciding factors, the factors which can decide whether you make 100s of thousands of $$$ or are stuck with a product no one is interested in.

      * Memorizable "flashy" product name
      * Good marketing, especially pre-launch marketing and building of anticipation and hype, JVs with "big name" marketers etc..etc.
      * perceived quality by simply "inflating" information, eg. converting something which could be a simple 15 page WSO into videos, forums, site memberships etc..

      This is why its called internet "marketing". Its the MARKETING part which will make you money at the end. This might be obvious for some tho..but just some food for thought....
      First, If there was always something "groundbreaking", you would never get anything done.

      Second, people VALUE additional details like extra videos, audios, coaching, memberships, etc. Is it necessary? not all the time...but think about this...

      How did you learn to walk?

      Did you do it reading a "how to walk book"? Or did you learn with help from your parents and guiding you along?

      People happily pay more money (I know I do) for a "walk-through" of what we want to learn how to do. It's proven and people just KNOW we learn faster when things are in better detail and are audio or visual in nature.







      Originally Posted by Eric Lorence View Post

      I think this was discussed last year at length ...

      Great products don't necessarily sell, great copywriting does ...

      Yes, sad but true.
      Nothing sad about that at all.

      The solution is simple: learn how to tap more emotions to help people solve their problem. Commit to learning how people operate and what their needs are and when you speak their language - they connect with you.

      In business and relationships.

      It's not enough to say "Here, I have what you want, buy it from me"...

      You have to know how to help people FEEL that what you offer will fill a need or solve their problem. And that takes work - and most people don't want to "do" the work.


      Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

      Yes, a lot of information is repackaged but you may be missing why it is sometimes worth the purchase.

      Sometimes the way the information is presented allows some people to learn easier than other products.

      I normally look for little gems that can make me money. It may be the same information but have a certain method that I haven't seen before that will help me make more money.

      I guess all the text books and stuff on the internet has been said before as well.

      Heck, there are tons of software products that all do the same thing. A lot of times the more popular products are just easier for someone to use.

      Either way it is all in the way you look at it. You can complain everything is same old same old or you can look for that little information that was worth the price of the product.

      In all the products I have purchased, there was only a few times that I couldn't find an idea that wasn't worth the price of the product.


      Tomato... tomato
      Great point

      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      This is exactly why I'm moving into more one-on-one interaction instead of just selling info products. I feel like I can give something more unique and useful by selling myself, not just my words. It obviously takes a lot more in terms of personal investment of time and energy vs. writing an ebook or shooting videos, but it's a lot more satisfying. And most importantly, based on the feedback I get, the people who "buy" my stuff get a lot more out of it, too. I think this is the way to set yourself apart from Clickbank and WSO sellers... if you're comfortable immersing yourself a lot deeper and dealing with people more directly.

      John
      Not a bad idea.

      I'm still thinking about it myself...

      It does take alot more time, and it can be more satisfying I agree.

      Something I would have to work into my future gameplan.
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    • Profile picture of the author msfunding
      Originally Posted by Zeus66 View Post

      This is exactly why I'm moving into more one-on-one interaction instead of just selling info products. I feel like I can give something more unique and useful by selling myself, not just my words. It obviously takes a lot more in terms of personal investment of time and energy vs. writing an ebook or shooting videos, but it's a lot more satisfying. And most importantly, based on the feedback I get, the people who "buy" my stuff get a lot more out of it, too. I think this is the way to set yourself apart from Clickbank and WSO sellers... if you're comfortable immersing yourself a lot deeper and dealing with people more directly.

      John

      I agree with you. I've been in MLM for 20 years and have made some good money. Started Im'ing and was surprised by the B.S. and rubbish out there. I've always enjoyed talking to people and and have started to see my niche in teaching and helping people in person and it does not always have to be on a 1 and 1 basis.

      I like what's going on out there as it make for exciting times for the people that want to help others without shafting them.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    I have yet to find anything of genuine value at all on Clickbank. Nearly everything sold there is crap, and for $15 you can buy a book from Amazon from genuine experts that teach real information.

    Clickbank has become the flea market of second rate wannabe product hacks and internet dreamers. It's like trying to find a filet mignon in a landfill.
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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
      Originally Posted by Tooschee View Post

      Hmm, reading this kind of opinions make me wonder if I did a good thing joining Clickbank with my product...

      Actually, I thought that joining Clickbank will resolve my biggest issue - marketing... I know I pretty much suck at it, but I can tell that I love doing designs and coding ( and most of my clients were happy from my services ), ant thought that Clickbank would help me sell a product of my own, cause everything I do or did is for someone, not for me... well, anyway, I gave it a try, domain and hosting is paid for a year, if it not bring me any revenue I'll be sure, that You were propably right

      Hey, don't take anything I say as gospel. I was just talking about my own experience and opinion. I also think the iPhone is crap and prefer the Droid, but Apple hasn't quit selling it because I won't buy one. I also haven't reviewed all 500,000 products on Clickbank either, just reflecting my opinion of the one's that I've seen... and I stand by my earlier statement. Most have been garbage, clearly put out there by cut-and-pasters who only see the entire game as a pure means to an end for a quick buck - and not putting out a quality product.

      Crap products make a lot of money too.
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      • Profile picture of the author George Wright
        Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

        ...the iPhone is crap and prefer the Droid, .
        Now there is some pure truth. LOL

        George Wright
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    • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      I have yet to find anything of genuine value at all on Clickbank. Nearly everything sold there is crap, and for $15 you can buy a book from Amazon from genuine experts that teach real information.

      Clickbank has become the flea market of second rate wannabe product hacks and internet dreamers. It's like trying to find a filet mignon in a landfill.
      I do not entirely agree. While a LOT of junk is on CB (no question) there is some good stuff on there. But often the good stuff is NOT the hyped one with 500+ gravity.

      See my post..this is exactly the reason. Some programmer/product creator might have made a fantastic product but totally failed with marketing - while someone else making $100.000+ with a FAR, FAR lesser quality product or the 5th rehash of something already out.

      That being said, the interesting CONCLUSION is actually that most people on the warrior forum eg. who make WSOs and have "some" knowledge in some way HAVE the potential to hit it really big (and i mean $100.000+ BIG) on clickbank with the *same* information as in their WSOs (or forum posts for that matter)...if they simply use better marketing, the right people and some "tweaking" (re-packaging) of their products.
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    • Profile picture of the author susanm
      Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

      It's like trying to find a filet mignon in a landfill.
      If I found a filet mignon in a landfill, I still wouldn't eat it.
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      • Profile picture of the author George Wright
        Originally Posted by susanm View Post

        If I found a filet mignon in a landfill, I still wouldn't eat it.
        Maybe not but if you found enough of them you could give them away and sell a lot of ketchup and A1 on the back end.

        George Wright, P.S. Sorry, we just had an earth quake and I'm wide awake since 404 AM without coffee. We had a 4.4 and 404 hmmmm Note to self, EQ Marketing, 4 steps to success. . Shake em up, Wake em up, Calm em down, Sell em a WSO on EQ survival. 'Night all.
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  • Profile picture of the author philsquires
    As a relative newbie I guess it does become challenging to create something outstanding but isn't that the point you have to put in the effort so not to be seen as creating sub-standard stuff

    As the market becomes better experienced/educated it will force the stuff that holds real value to the top and with time show the over-hyped, zero value to the bottom of the pile

    I believe that if you create something of extremely high value and are passionate about results for others you will be successful

    Like Tyson mentions "build a reputation..."

    Of course if you don't learn great copy or understand the needs of your market well then you are in trouble!
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  • Profile picture of the author Slin
    Amazon? Real experts?

    Clickbank only sells crap products?

    Wait hold up here!

    I completely agree with the George, there is pretty much nothing new under the sun. Almost all the products work, just make the same one and sell it at a good price.

    Amazon sells some pretty dumb books, so does Barnes and Noble.

    I had a friend who really wanted to gain some muscle, at first we went to Barnes and Noble to see if there were any good books. All of them were horrible!

    Like I'm not kidding, these things were pretty bad.

    We bought a clickbank product, it works great, my friend now has the huge muscular body he wants. No joke.

    I myself wanted to get a nice lean body look, I bought the old charles atlas program (You can still buy it for 50$ these days) and I am getting pretty dang ripped.

    So far in my experience online ebooks have been much more effective then amazon or your average book.

    People just seem to be more critical online.

    Anyway, good post, if the information out there already works, why not keep selling it?

    - Nils
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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
      Originally Posted by Slin View Post

      Amazon? Real experts?

      Clickbank only sells crap products?

      Wait hold up here!

      I completely agree with the George, there is pretty much nothing new under the sun. Almost all the products work, just make the same one and sell it at a good price.

      Amazon sells some pretty dumb books, so does Barnes and Noble.

      I had a friend who really wanted to gain some muscle, at first we went to Barnes and Noble to see if there were any good books. All of them were horrible!

      Like I'm not kidding, these things were pretty bad.

      We bought a clickbank product, it works great, my friend now has the huge muscular body he wants. No joke.

      I myself wanted to get a nice lean body look, I bought the old charles atlas program (You can still buy it for 50$ these days) and I am getting pretty dang ripped.

      So far in my experience online ebooks have been much more effective then amazon or your average book.

      People just seem to be more critical online.

      Anyway, good post, if the information out there already works, why not keep selling it?

      - Nils

      Yeah, the difference between Clickbank's dumb books and Amazon's dumb books is about $40-80 since Kindle came along.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary King
    "But wait! There's More!"

    "NOW How Much Would You Pay?"

    "Stop the presses!"

    "If you act RIGHT NOW, we'll SLASH One Full Payment!"

    Agreed w/ya GeorgR.

    As one of many examples, Mass Control wouldn't have sold so well if it were called "Painfully convince others to give you their money."
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  • Profile picture of the author jagsenghera
    I spend most of my time creating great products and not selling much of them. All the time seeing how so call market leaders come up with crappy products and are successful at selling them. I learned this fact the hard way. Thanks for sharing
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    • Profile picture of the author PhotoshopWarrior
      I agree with u! Talk about the unfair advantage the BIG SHOTS have!!
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  • Profile picture of the author PhotoshopWarrior
    I'm TOTALLY WITH U on this one!

    Yup! Sad but you have to face it...
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