I can't stand Internet Marketing.

[emigre]

hecky, you only can't stand IM because you haven't made money with it yet. Once you get your first $10, $100 or whatever, you will like it.

Please don't buy anymore wsos for making money no matter how many praises it gets. I myself only ever buy services such as backlinks and such but even then it's a gamble - links may never show up or sites can disappear after a month etc.

Forget about the money lost - everyone starting out has spent money on crap that don't work. That's why most of these products are aimed at newcomers.

Instead, go online and read money making blogs such as the viperchill one someone recommended. That page right there is detailed instructions on how to go about it.

In the meantime, maybe you can stick to a full time job and do IM part time until you get the hang of it. Don't give up.

It will take sometime, don't expect overnight riches.

[Nicholas Kemp]

Get over the anger as it won't help. Internet marketing is great. You have invested around $200 and things haven't worked out. What were you expecting? The $200 investment has given you valuable lessons on what doesn't work.

I am very careful about what I read and believe. Nothing should really raise your hopes. Only you can really do that. You should invest in products that will educate you, not ones that promise you riches. You can spot a scam if you stop and think. How is it possible that one product will suddenly open up the doors of riches for you? It is like those spam emails from Nigeria.

Are you clear on what you want to do online?.
Here is the problem - you thought by spending money that you would be making money. You should be focused on establishing value for other people. That will eventually make you money

Succeeding online is about learning the fundamentals, focus and helping others. It is pretty simple.

Avoid the hype and keep learning. Resenting bad decision you made will only slow you down and make you unhappy.

Don't give up.

[Eric Johnson]

Originally Posted by Hecky

Those who have immediately categorized me into the 'get rich quick' wanna-be type are mistaken. I specialised in logo design at DigitalPoint, and making some 1,500+ logo and web designs resulted in less than $1,000 total. Each logo takes probably half an hour to make, so I've been working at $0.75 / hour for the last 4 years of my life. That takes commitment.

I really don't mean to be rude here but I can't help but say that working for .75/hr for 4 years takes something more than commitment....

I'm gonna leave it up to you to decide what exactly to call it but it ain't good.

Man, go to Wal Mart or something. You will increase your income by 10 times as a door greeter.

[Anoopchawla]

OP your post irritates me. What you have not understood until now is its a real business, and you must treat it like one.
After just 51 clicks through you are ready to quit. If you were in a brick and mortar business and if 51 people who visit your store and none of them buy from you will you say that this departmental store business is a scam.
Same goes with IM From past 3 and half years I have been reading stuff about IM but could not make money you know why, and i don't feel ashamed to admit it, the reason is my attitude sucked.

I decided to change my mindset first and master the fundamentals of marketing on the internet like article marketing. And you know the next thing that happened to me, forget about 51 click through I got 615 click through but not even a single sale. Was I ready to give up yet? NOO.



I changed my strategy and I got my first ever sale and after that there was no looking back . Now In no sense I have made it fully online, but I realize like any other business it's not about any tricks that you can learn from WSO or some guru but its

about influencing people and providing more value to people.

Remember if you can convey that you can understand their problem better than they can. you can immediately start to make rapport with them. Once you have rapport with a person you can easily lead them to your offer. Ofcourse this is overly simplified but you must understand marketing first because It is Internet MARKETING.

Just my 2 cents
Peace

[thunderbird]

Lots of useful feedback here, that can be well applied to improving one's online business. Sadly, much of it is laced with sharp barbs that are probably more hurtful than helpful.

[Jackbgd]

Originally Posted by Hecky

Warriors,

I'm just making this post to express what I think, and to tell you my story.

I came here after spending a number of years at the DigitalPoint forum, where I spent hours each day doing design work and making minimal amounts of money. Straight away I decided to join the prestigous 'War Room' section, in the hope of being able to start off something in the Internet Marketing world that seemed so attractive.

After browsing through various threads, I was quickly won over by bold claims of huge earnings for little effort, and embarked upon my first project. I wont go into details, but it didn't work out. $100 of investment plus the $47 war room fee, and nada. No result. The program claimed that poor performers would pull in $2-4 a day, and yet I made nothing. The niche I used was suggested to me by a fellow warrior, and I wrote all the content I needed to exacting specifications. Yet nothing.

A few weeks later I came back with a fresh mind, looking to start again. I repeated what I had done before, but I did some better research this time, and yet I still got no results. Meanwhile there was nothing but success stories back at the thread, and I was left at the back - without a single cent. 51 clicks, 0 conversions.

Now it was time for me to really throw in the towel and say that this wasn't for me. I decided to look at another thread to try out, and again I've had no results. Nothing I do works, I thought I wasn't cut out for this and became jealous of all those who have succeeded. Nothing much has changed since then.

One thing that just strikes me is the greed and dishonesty that Internet Marketing can bring with it. It's all about squeezing as much money out of people as you can - and there's very little honestly or true kindness. For example, most of the threads in the 'War Room' require you to sign up to their email lists and I still recieve half a dozen emails a day from people who decided to 'kindly' give away some information for free. Truth is, they just found a different way to make money.

I recently bought a WSO here that had pages of good reviews and had more of the dazzling claims of fortunes on it. I read a few pages of the book and realized it's pretty much just a few War Room posts strung together into a book. I posted what I thought, and the thread creator and I took it to PM where he confronted me about what I said - apparently his sales had fallen 50% after what I said and he wanted me to post on the thread to get these back up again. Again, it's all just about sales and money. He did offer me a refund, though.

I also bought some software recently that I saw online. I won't go into specifics, but it didn't actually work. I've tried to contact the seller, but I somewhat doubt that he's the real seller anymore - it was probably some sort of affiliate system because he's posted it and run away, having pocketed $40.

My experience at the Warrior Forum has made me rethink my whole perspective on money. As far as I'm now concerned, money just turns people into desperation, and sometimes as far as greed and dishonesty. Either I'm a magnet for failure, or things just aren't as nice and shiny as they seem - and people only make money here by selling eBooks that tell you how to make money.

All around this forum and others like it are people preaching trickery. Whether it be tricking search engines or people, it's just not fair.

I suppose if I want to leave one message to whoever has read this far, it's to remember that there are people behind those sales and profit numbers. There are people that will be putting their hard-earned money into what you sell, and there are people who's lives you are making harder by trying to make a quick buck.

Every time you claim a system to make per month, you raise someone's hopes - and exploiting their human nature to respond to that hope when you know it's not possible is just inhumane.

N.B. This isn't a complaint at WarriorForum in particular, and I hope it isn't against the rules to express my opinion. I would be overjoyed to see someone come and make me change my mind on this issue.

I don't want to be hard on you, but all I'll say is that you are thinking like a loser. You'll NEVER make any money online. So go quit.

[freedomguy]

Hecky

In all this discussion about selling IM stuff to newbies and trying to make money from other people's plans and ideas found in ebooks etc. an important point has been overlooked.

Some members have talked about the importance of 'passion' in your subject. Others have mentioned the importance of delivering value to customers who need the solutions you are selling. My question is simply

"What are you good at?"

You mentioned you were specialising in graphic design over at Digital point and apparently getting paid peanuts (or less!) for your efforts, so you headed over here to join in the IM frenzy, bad idea!

Getting back to the graphic design thing - are you any good? I ask because very few IMers are any good at GD, it's one of the services we have to buy every time we set up a new website.

I guess my point is, don't come into a new marketplace and criticise the things we sell, especially among a group of people who give so much help to newbies for free!

Come in and show us what you are good at. Show us how you can help us achieve what we want. The demand for good graphics for websites is insatiable. Yes, there are warriors selling graphic design here on this forum, but they are far, far fewer than people selling IM 'how to' stuff.

Over to you Hecky....

John

[LetsGoViral]

Stop spending money on WSO's and stuff you don't need. Don't believe outrageous claims! I have learned that the best way is to figure the things out for yourself.

[Sparhawke]

I agree completely with FreedomGuy, if you really are good at graphics and design then in time you will be in demand for your work and you will be able to set your own price, with that you will be able to commission people to make you websites that start bringing in the pennies.

Try that or just offer graphics for people to write you articles that will get noticed and help you make money...there are lots of people here wth skills, and lots without and if you can use yours and borrow someone elses in a barter you will get ahead.

The worst part about valuing yourself is undervaluing yourself...are you so crap at graphics that you are only worth 75c an hour?

[Damien Roche]

I'm sorry, what did you expect from 51 clicks?

That's your problem right there. No traffic.

[matrix1989]

Originally Posted by sloanjim

No it's not easy and noone should expect it to be but what she is there are so many scams it's geting impossible to pick the good/legitimate ones out.

The big problem on the Net is regulation. People are not scared of the consequens of their copy, prmoises etc. Look at the WSO section. The FTC would have a FIT. I'd say about 20% are ok..the rest.

"regulation" is not the answer

people need to stand on their own 2 feet and not let the FTC think for them....

[Biggy Fat]

You know what, dawg? This post, THIS post, just inspired me to return to my IMRant.com blog. I will be sure to link to it in my post there, man.

People, what he said is the damn truth. I simply couldn't agree more, I swear. I'm dead effin serious.

Originally Posted by Hecky

Warriors,

I'm just making this post to express what I think, and to tell you my story.

I came here after spending a number of years at the DigitalPoint forum, where I spent hours each day doing design work and making minimal amounts of money. Straight away I decided to join the prestigous 'War Room' section, in the hope of being able to start off something in the Internet Marketing world that seemed so attractive.

After browsing through various threads, I was quickly won over by bold claims of huge earnings for little effort, and embarked upon my first project. I wont go into details, but it didn't work out. $100 of investment plus the $47 war room fee, and nada. No result. The program claimed that poor performers would pull in $2-4 a day, and yet I made nothing. The niche I used was suggested to me by a fellow warrior, and I wrote all the content I needed to exacting specifications. Yet nothing.

A few weeks later I came back with a fresh mind, looking to start again. I repeated what I had done before, but I did some better research this time, and yet I still got no results. Meanwhile there was nothing but success stories back at the thread, and I was left at the back - without a single cent. 51 clicks, 0 conversions.

Now it was time for me to really throw in the towel and say that this wasn't for me. I decided to look at another thread to try out, and again I've had no results. Nothing I do works, I thought I wasn't cut out for this and became jealous of all those who have succeeded. Nothing much has changed since then.

One thing that just strikes me is the greed and dishonesty that Internet Marketing can bring with it. It's all about squeezing as much money out of people as you can - and there's very little honestly or true kindness. For example, most of the threads in the 'War Room' require you to sign up to their email lists and I still recieve half a dozen emails a day from people who decided to 'kindly' give away some information for free. Truth is, they just found a different way to make money.

I recently bought a WSO here that had pages of good reviews and had more of the dazzling claims of fortunes on it. I read a few pages of the book and realized it's pretty much just a few War Room posts strung together into a book. I posted what I thought, and the thread creator and I took it to PM where he confronted me about what I said - apparently his sales had fallen 50% after what I said and he wanted me to post on the thread to get these back up again. Again, it's all just about sales and money. He did offer me a refund, though.

I also bought some software recently that I saw online. I won't go into specifics, but it didn't actually work. I've tried to contact the seller, but I somewhat doubt that he's the real seller anymore - it was probably some sort of affiliate system because he's posted it and run away, having pocketed $40.

My experience at the Warrior Forum has made me rethink my whole perspective on money. As far as I'm now concerned, money just turns people into desperation, and sometimes as far as greed and dishonesty. Either I'm a magnet for failure, or things just aren't as nice and shiny as they seem - and people only make money here by selling eBooks that tell you how to make money.

All around this forum and others like it are people preaching trickery. Whether it be tricking search engines or people, it's just not fair.

I suppose if I want to leave one message to whoever has read this far, it's to remember that there are people behind those sales and profit numbers. There are people that will be putting their hard-earned money into what you sell, and there are people who's lives you are making harder by trying to make a quick buck.

Every time you claim a system to make per month, you raise someone's hopes - and exploiting their human nature to respond to that hope when you know it's not possible is just inhumane.

N.B. This isn't a complaint at WarriorForum in particular, and I hope it isn't against the rules to express my opinion. I would be overjoyed to see someone come and make me change my mind on this issue.

[USGTMauthor]

I also think people put themselves under too much pressure. If I needed to make money quickly I would not go into a business I had no experience in with no other income and expect it to solve my money problems. Some people need to just get or keep a job(s) while they learn what they are doing. Remember the old saying they used to tell musicians and actors, don't quit your day job. Most newbies should solve their short term income problem however they need to an work online part time until they have a workable plan.

[Lee Wilson]

Hecky.

I'll skip my opinions but don't overlook the kindness in this forum. This place is full of genuine help, you are only concentrating on the negative parts. I'll make you an offer. I will help you get kick started. No guarantees, no blueprints, just some education and tell you where you are going wrong. It won't happen overnight. There will be some criteria, I won't state what that is right now.

You don't have to take me up on it, other than that, the offer is only open for 24hrs. Why? Because if you start a thread like this and don't read EVERY reply within that time (the thread isn't dead yet), then you have already failed what I consider the most important requirement in business, that can't be taught. Passion! Is there anything in it for me? Possibly, I might learn something that could be useful to me right now. I also might not but that won't matter. PM me if you're interested, or reply here if you can't PM.

Lee

[Black Hat Cat]

Originally Posted by Hecky

Those who have immediately categorized me into the 'get rich quick' wanna-be type are mistaken. I specialised in logo design at DigitalPoint, and making some 1,500+ logo and web designs resulted in less than $1,000 total. Each logo takes probably half an hour to make, so I've been working at $0.75 / hour for the last 4 years of my life. That takes commitment.

And very little sense it seems. What were you charging, 60 cents for a logo/website?

The problem is you, not internet marketing.

[Focused Action]

Just remember one thing - there are very few opportunities where you can work when you want, where you want, doing what you want and making as much as you want. But, treat it as a real business - work hard - study from the best and most of all take action! I know it is frustrating, i myself am very disappointed in my performance but I accept full responsibility for jumping from method to method, confusing activity with productive action, not following all the steps, etc.

I just recently lost everything I had built in 10 years as an owner of a custom home building biz. 10 years to build an award winning company, 1 year for the walls to collapse as the home building / real estate market collapsed. I can assure you the costs and risks of building a "brick and mortar" business are 1000 fold the cost to start an online based business. I can also assure you I will never build this type of biz again - signing leases, personal guarantees, buying office equip, employees..... As somebody posted above - internet marketing is just marketing / selling a product or service using the highly cost effective medium known as the internet. This is an ideal business form!!

I am trying to "clean up" the mess I have made so far with my internet biz, but I will NEVER give up. I have gained enormous education - i just need to create a solid plan and then work it better than I have previously.

Start over, take a fresh start, dont give up, be focused on SUCCESS!!!

[TheGraduate]

I deleted the previous post I had made to this thread, because maybe I was a little too harsh to the guy when I wrote it. Now I came back with a different idea in mind, which is to actually try to help the guy.


First of all lets look at some facts here:

1) you do not have a sig in your posts with a link to a website which would give people in this forum a better idea of what it is that you are good at (keep in mind that every time you post to this forum there is a good chance that people who read your posts and like it will probably click on the links in your sig to try to find out more about you), you are not displaying any links in your contact information either (again, you are missing a chance to attract people to your opportunity)

2)this is the only thread you have posted, if you really were serious about making money I think you already would have posted a WSO and other kind of threads with strong headlines as the thread title, and you would be paying to bump up those threads to the front as soon as they fall back to the third page.

That's two strikes so far

3)This thread has gotten more than 1000 views in just two days, don't you think that this would have been a great opportunity for you to get people to click on a link in your sig if you had one?

That's strike three, you are out!

No I am not just talking crap, click on >main marketing discussion forum- at the top and look for a thread that has gotten more than 2000 views, then look at the date when it was created, you will find out that those are mostly old threads that warriors are bumping up to give exposure to their links in their sigs and to their contact information in their profiles. with that said, now you know that you are just wasting your time in this forum, so do not complain if you are not seeing any results from it.


note: I have not seen financial results from using this forum either, but as you can see, I am not trying to make money from it YET, my sig clearly states -amazing product coming soon- once I decide to place a link in my sig and contact information in my WF profile, my whole approach on how to behave in this forum will be directed towards getting people to want to know about what I am offering. (even my avatar might be replaced by my own pic etc)

note: you have nine posts and one thread to this forum, that's worst than worst for you to be claiming already that internet marketing is not good for you, with a better try you could be making a monthly income just from this forum alone, trust me, there is people here doing it!

[Ricci Cox]

The fact you have titled this post "I can't stand Internet Marketing" suggests to me, that you are in the wrong business.

I'd suggest that you do something else. Choose something that you enjoy and are PASSIONATE about for a start. Life's to short to do stuff you don't like!

And there's plenty of us here who LOVE internet marketing and are making money because we are working hard and putting what we learn into action.

Good luck and all the best with whatever you decide...

Ricci

[hjaynes]

This is not a dig at you personally Hecky but I've learned a few things in my years of marketing. My normal "pay the bills" business is financing businesses. I specifically finance gas stations. In my particular area of expertise, I have been #1-#2 on google/yahoo for probably ten years. People put up hundreds of thousands of dollars (or millions) to net earning 100-200K a year in their business. Keep that in perspective. Many people are trying to earn a bizillion dollars from internet marketing with VERY LITTLE sacrifice when it comes to capital outlay. Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. I did a lot of testing in my own business to find out what works and what doesn't. This did not happen in a few weeks or a few months and there was no manual or ebook or training manual or anything. Create your success. You always have to think long term. Internet marketing is nothing more than another means of advertising to sell your product or service. Don't be so intimidated (and impressed) by these so called big buck earners.

[MarkAnderson]

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

You have 2 choices.

1. Change your attitude, make a real business plan instead of just throwing
crap at the wall and seeing what sticks.

I think this is the point. Do it (If Steven says don’t)
Check what sticks, and next develop your business plan only along sticking things.
You’ll find the success……

[purplecone]

Originally Posted by EndGame

Hi Hecky.

I could write a book about what you are talking about. I have worked with/and know some of the biggest Internet Marketing "gurus" I know a fraudster or two and I know people who just started learning all this stuff two days ago. I have seen it from all sides and have made a few conclusions. I will spare this thread and the people here my conclusions, but I wanted to share something with you that might be of interest to you and a lot of other warriors.

Viral Marketing : ViperChill

It's a blog. The guy who wrote it is 20 (I think) but has an exceptional CV/background and is living proof this is possible. His approach to helping people escape the 9-5 is different to that of any other online marketing "teacher" I have ever seen.

I have only been reading his stuff for 2 weeks, but it has been invaluable, interesting and thought provoking. His writing style is clear, concise and he really guides you through things. There are courses selling for $197 a pop that don't even come close in delivering the same amount of value this lad delivers in one blog post.

I encourage anyone who has an hour or two spare in their week to make time for this guy's blog.

Wow! Talk about great material! Thanks for the link. I have bookmarked it and plan to link to his material in my upcoming work.
Linda

[BillyBee]

I'm surprised no one called out Hecky for this quote:

Originally Posted by Hecky

I just hate the whole structure of having email lists, 20,000 'buy' buttons, affiliate links in 'free' ebooks. It's all just squeezing as much money as you can out of people - which is just irritating and often misleading.

How in the world do you expect to succeed if you genuinely hate what you're doing? No big deal if that's the case --- just do yourself a favor and pick another line of work. Life it too short to swim upstream like that.

The idea of having a big list and creating a free ebook --- all that stuff EXCITED me. "Wow," I thought, "I can actually create this sort of funnel that becomes this sales machine that brings in money while I'm sleeping -- how cool is THAT?"

I didn't see it as squeezing money out of people. I saw it in terms of creating something so helpful and irresistible that people WANTED to buy it . . . in fact, they thought they were getting a BARGAIN.

And guess what? I have about 40,000 subscribers in a non-IM niche and my refund rate is like 1% or 2%.

Final thought . . .

When an art student once asked Picasso if she could succeed as an artist, he replied, "I don't know. Do you like the smell of paint?"

[Chris Parker]

I understand your frustration, but you have to keep trying. Like the saying goes "Winners Never Quit and Quitters Never Win". You are going to fail over and over until one day that success finally comes. You will learn from all of your failures and your success will come from the knowledge you learned from your failures.

I hope you get what I am saying as I just had a strong rum and coke and am feeling good.

Just never give up and success will come in time, the IM market is not a get rich scheme. It takes a lot of work and dedication, but the reward is awesome when it finally comes.

-Chris

[Emily Meeks]

I just got a kickass 32 gig Itouch. I just put a whole bunch of music and games on it, and it's provided many hours of fun even though I haven't had it for very long...

Wanna know how I paid for it? MY INTERNET MARKETING MONEY.

I didn't do anything unethical, either. I legitimately earned the money to buy it. It didn't exactly come to me in my sleep though... I had to fall on my face a few times before I got that money, before I could even *think* about buying myself an Itouch.

I also got myself some kickass boots.

I guess these are figments of my imagination, though, because none of this IM stuff actually works, right? Riiiiiight.

Those things don't compare to the houses and cars that other Warriors have bought with their Internet Marketing money. They didn't scam anyone either, and I'm pretty sure that many actually fell on their faces even more than I did...

[Sparhawke]

It is all part and parcel of learning, this falling back on our asses thing.

Do 100 things and maybe 2-3 may wrk so we can concentrate on those, it is very rare for something to work the first time we do it since there are so many ways to screw up...never stop swimming though...

[M Thompson]

Hecky , I do feel for you, but i can't help feeling that you do have to take some of the blame yourself.

You've been working on the DP forum for a long time surely that is long enough to grab the bull by the horns and start to biuld a business from IM. 5 years ago I'd never heard of adsense or clickbank. for the past 4 1/2 years i've been making a full time living online.

It took work..lots of work probably more work that i've ever done and I spent 12 years in the armed forces.

There is no quick money from IM first make $1 then upscale that to $10 then work for $100. you can't go from 0 to $10,000

[Hecky]

Originally Posted by BillyBee

I'm surprised no one called out Hecky for this quote:



How in the world do you expect to succeed if you genuinely hate what you're doing? No big deal if that's the case --- just do yourself a favor and pick another line of work. Life it too short to swim upstream like that.

The idea of having a big list and creating a free ebook --- all that stuff EXCITED me. "Wow," I thought, "I can actually create this sort of funnel that becomes this sales machine that brings in money while I'm sleeping -- how cool is THAT?"

I didn't see it as squeezing money out of people. I saw it in terms of creating something so helpful and irresistible that people WANTED to buy it . . . in fact, they thought they were getting a BARGAIN.

And guess what? I have about 40,000 subscribers in a non-IM niche and my refund rate is like 1% or 2%.

Final thought . . .

When an art student once asked Picasso if she could succeed as an artist, he replied, "I don't know. Do you like the smell of paint?"

There's a difference between saying "here's my product, click here to buy it, but if you don't want to buy it then that's ok".

In internet marketing, it's like you go onto a page, get confronted by a

• Huge headline text with some totally untrue claim,
• Have 20 'buy' buttons in your face,
• A video of some person will start talking to you about how wonderful it is,
• A dozen or so fake testimonials,
• A fake timer that says that this is the last day of this offer,
• Some 'bonus' material that's worth absolutely nothing,
• Claims that what you're selling is worth $1,000 and the price has been reduced to $90 just for you when it hasn't
• Claims that this is not for the public eyes only
• Some fake story about the authors past, and how the system turned their life around.
• Fake payment screenshots

Whether you buy it or not, chances are you'll end up putting your email in somewhere. Big mistake. You can expect to get dozens of 'amazing' offers over the next few weeks. If you say you don't want to buy it, there will be a few 'BUT WAIT..check out these offers' for you to see.

If you then give in to the desperate nature of your situation and buy whatever is on offer, then you'll be dissapointed, beacuase chances are you've seen it before.

[randalblanchette]

I suppose it is a matter of perspective. I happen to like the challenge and testing. It is kind of creativity in action. Like art maybe?

[Anonymous Affiliate]

I think the OP's point is not to stress on his failure, but on the fact that morals are low on the IM niche. To which I 100% agree. IM is the new wild wild west...

[mlord10]

Not going to make a long post here because much of what I would say to you has already been covered. You can find a ton of great marketing info online for free, so there is really no reason to go around buying the "latest and greatest course." I am sure that you you already know that.

51 clicks=nothing. (as far as testing goes). I generally want to see at least 200-300 clicks to a sales page before I even think about analyzing the results. If I had quit after 51 clicks then two of my best affiliate cash cows would have never happened.

I very distinctly remember having one product take 255 clicks before generating a sale, yet now it converts at around 1:40, and pays me a nice commission.

The bottom line is that in order to make this work you have to believe that it is going to work. Remember: "If it is to be, it is up to ME."

[johnben1444]

Contrary to what many people believe, making money online requires expertise. There is no free money anywhere, you have to work for it.

It's either you are working your butt on the wrong direction or your niche is very competitive.

While i agree that the money making niche is very competitive, you can still do very well with some bit of skills.

Below are some internet marketing tips.

1. Pick a product, not just any product but one people are willing to spend their hard earned cash on. And something that is slightly different and better than your competitors.

2. Know your target market. You will need an idea of what they want, how they want it and how to get to them.

3. You need a site of your own. If you think this isn't necessary then you are dead wrong. A lot of ad agencies have placed an indefinite ban on affiliate link, as a result of this you can barely get sufficient traffic to your affiliate link. Earning income from internet marketing requires a lot of exposures. As a matter of fact over eighty percent of the people who lands on your site won't buy your product. The rule is 100 unique visitors to one sale. Want to make 5 sales a day, get 500 unique visitors to visit your site on a daily basis.

4. You need to monitor your traffic. There are many free ad softwares you can install on your site to know where your visitors are coming from, their location, where they go on your site and where they exit. This will give you an idea on what improvement you need to do.

5. Marketing your site is what you will spend most of your time doing. SEO is what you wouldn't want to miss out, while it takes a while to get your site to the top of the SERP, it surely worth the wait. Article marketing, blogging, forums, list building, PPC are something you should pay attention to.

Sorry my english is not too polished but i believe you can do well if you apply the above. Making money online might take time depending on the kind of product your are promoting as well as the marketing strategy you are using.

Best Wishes,

John

[jesila]

Hi,
it seems you got a very low attitude you know why? because we need a great attitude for marketing then only we can cross our mile stones. you must be understood what I'm trying to say.........so have a great attitude bye...........


trafficgeyserseo.com

[Dital]

Anyone who starts anything new will definitely be frustrated in more than one way.

Why? Because they don't know how to do it.

And since you haven't crossed the line into success, you still don't know how to do it.

Once you have crossed the line and start seeing results, I believe you won't let all the hype get in your way of reaching your goals.

I also agree, there are scammers out there but not everyone is a scammer - (scammers are also rarely successful)

Most people who are successful in IM are very hard working and have to deal with no less than anyone else.

[Jay Deiboldt]

I just hate the whole structure of having email lists, 20,000 'buy' buttons, affiliate links in 'free' ebooks. It's all just squeezing as much money as you can out of people - which is just irritating and often misleading.

Originally Posted by Hecky

There's a difference between saying "here's my product, click here to buy it, but if you don't want to buy it then that's ok".

In internet marketing, it's like you go onto a page, get confronted by a

• Huge headline text with some totally untrue claim,
• Have 20 'buy' buttons in your face,
• A video of some person will start talking to you about how wonderful it is,
• A dozen or so fake testimonials,
• A fake timer that says that this is the last day of this offer,
• Some 'bonus' material that's worth absolutely nothing,
• Claims that what you're selling is worth $1,000 and the price has been reduced to $90 just for you when it hasn't
• Claims that this is not for the public eyes only
• Some fake story about the authors past, and how the system turned their life around.
• Fake payment screenshots

Whether you buy it or not, chances are you'll end up putting your email in somewhere. Big mistake. You can expect to get dozens of 'amazing' offers over the next few weeks. If you say you don't want to buy it, there will be a few 'BUT WAIT..check out these offers' for you to see.

If you then give in to the desperate nature of your situation and buy whatever is on offer, then you'll be dissapointed, beacuase chances are you've seen it before.

Dude, you "hate" marketing and you're trying to become a marketer - do the math.

[SteveOllington]

Your best bet (IMHO) is to not buy any information at all to begin with, but to simply research on lots of different platforms and find your own way with your own products that you've discovered through your own research (not listening to anyone else), and do that a bunch of times until something works. By this point you'll have a much better understanding of the whole concept and will know what to look out for if you do decide to buy information and listen to others. I'm not saying that's the only way but that's how I did it anyway, I learnt for myself first, then from others.

*Hello everybody by the way, despite the fact I've been led here to read stuff by Google millions of times, I've only just got around to actually signing up.

[Biggy Fat]

I still can't help but agree with the OP.

[reapr]

Originally Posted by Jay Deiboldt

Dude, you "hate" marketing and you're trying to become a marketer - do the math.

That was my thoughts too ...

I have several problems with the original post. If you can't stand it why even bother?

I can understand your frustration but it sounds like you may have set yourself up for failure. IM is not easy street.

Doing logo design work for 4 years at those prices means you were operating more of a hobby and not a business or you don't mind letting people take advantage of you. Don't get me wrong people may operate at a loss for a few projects or months to get their name out there but not for 4 years. Maybe it is time for you to decide what it is you are exactly operating.

You say you are a hard worker I can't knock that but working hard and working smart can separate the winners from the losers. Again if you are not sure you are operating a hobbie or business it may be time to sit down and write out a business plan if you are still interested in making your business successful.

You mention you have several sites. Are these sites or free webpages? It may take several more sites and several more weeks or months of working smarter to make a sale. If you are really ambitious 12-16 hour days 6-7 days a weel may be required if not and you are working a day job you may need to do some outsourcing. Do you have any projects lined out for the week written out even if it is just bookmarking or creating a new site? Are you willing to do that? If not it sounds like quitting or going back to logo design over at DP might be more profitable.

Can you really expect to make some serious money off of 51 clicks?

It sound like you need to work on strategies to get more traffic or find other niches that may have better conversions, buy traffic or go the easy road and quit.

[kharim]

affiliate marketing is the best way to make money online next to ppc

[Charles Washington]

Originally Posted by Biggy Fat

I still can't help but agree with the OP.

I thought you said a few months back that you were done with internet marketing? I see youre still here

[Christian York]

IM is not for everyone. Clearly not for you. You never stuck with a system for long enough so what do you expect?

Making a lot of money online is possible. I have done it, and so has thousands of other people on this forum. Just because you bought a product that said you could make $X amount of money and you didn't, doesn't necessarily mean that the product was bad or that the author mislead you.

It took me thousands of wasted dollars and hours before I got the hang of things. But I was committed and was enjoying what I was doing. If IM is not for you, then do something else.

[GeorgR.]

Originally Posted by cjmo75

I do feel bad for the people who get shammed into thinking that a $47 ebook is going to show them how to make money online. I don't promote or sell products like that.

why not? You would make a killing

But on a serious side-note..i notice a weird under-tone since you're basically thinking that a "$47 ebook" obviously cannot make (someone) money.

This is wrong. You know what? I am making money with FREE stuff like PLR software.

Also..ironically in what you're saying you're basically admitting that you yourself would never sell an ebook for $47 "to make money"....you are basically admitting you would charge more? Therefore contradicting your own philosophy?

Also...the forum here is the best example that MOST (yes, most!!) information you need is indeed free.

[GeorgR.]

Originally Posted by graemewallis

All I have to say is that you have to be very careful as to where you spend your money.

All you need to know, this applies especially for IM newbies:

There is MORE MONEY MADE by selling people information "how to make money" - the big shots don't make money using their own "systems" BUT SELLING IT. Its a simple fact. Period.

EVERYONE new to IM must realize this. Look at those known names, look at their products. BE SUSPICIOUS in regards to claims and their "systems".

Realize what "MARKETING" actually is ---> Its not coming up with a true "miracle system" but instead the art to create value (real one or perceived one) and simply SELL as much as possible.

Watch your average afternoon home shopping channel and see how ***p is advertised like it's the second coming of Christ. THIS is what marketing is. Its a harsh but true fact.

[Maverick_]

Originally Posted by richdirtygirl

Ok Hecky,

my 2 cents here (before they delete this thread for whining)...

Internet Marketing is marketing through the Internet. That said, lets break it down:

-to market means to sell something
-internet is the media used to sell that something

internet marketing is a business. 95% of start-up businesses fail because the owners don't have what it really takes to build a business. What makes you think this will be any different?

what is needed to success in IM is "can do no matter what" attitude, and the ability to learn from everything that happens to you.

the main reason for your failure is because you are not learning from your experiences, so you can't go ahead.

taken the smack part out of the way, you are right in a couple of things...

IM is considered a "desperate" niche. So you will see many falcons coming in. Someone told me once talking about this: They want the magic bullet and don't want to hear the truth, if I don't take their money someone else's will...

if you want to learn and build a solid business:

-stay away from big claims and shiny stuff;

-pay close attention to what you see and the way you feel when you read or see a vid, and you will be learning copy.

-choose good quality products to promote, or build your own (and make them good quality), and don't become a falcon yourself

-be ready to take everything that cross your way as a natural disaster: in a natural disaster you don't waste time claiming for the "shoulds" you cut your loses, learn and see how to move on.

Laura

Well worded, internet marketing is all about reading between the lines. It's the subtleties that I learn from. The psychological triggers frank kern uses in his videos. The way that Jeff Walker structures his launch formulas.

The most important thing you can ever learn from IM is understanding what makes people buy and how you can trigger that. There is no one particular product that will give you all the tools. It's a journey... you have to be willing to learn and you have to be willing to fail.

This is the most important question and tip I've ever found.

Always ask yourself: "Would I buy this?" then ask yourself "Why". Odds are you're not alone.

-Adam

[TrueDepth]

Stop believing them!! Ban yourself from buying anything about making money, and instead go to work making money. Marketers lie. It is a fact. They purposely try to push your emotional buttons. They don't care and will do whatever it takes to make money off of you. They know most people won't raise a fuss and will get so busy with day to day life to get a refund.

[Marian]

Build up a system, be persistent and focused. You don't have to buy every "hot" thing released each and every day... there's a ton of information on selecting a niche here at WF - free. Learn the principles... they're still the same.

Marian

[Igor Pauer]

Choose carefully the "real" product - "physical" product. Stay away from same, rewritten and "digital" things with hypes and promises only.

[FaJeeb]

This thread reminds me of Bill Hicks on Marketing

YouTube - Bill Hicks on Marketing

[SEMwinners]

Hecky,
You are right there's a lot of trickery (and I suspect most "proof of income" captures are of selling the howto rather than the "what"), but so is everywhere. Look at the banks in USA, insurance companies, G&S and The Fed just wiping out your population and other bankers doing the same.
But whining about it won't stop it and won't help.
Go read Wallace wattles, Napoleon Hill etc. Hill says: Make lemonade out of lemons.

And sure, any marketing is often dishonest- does marketer or affiliate really like what they promote? use the drug? the book, the course? Not likely. So if that bothers you don't do it.
Create info courses of use, or get a job. Often jobs also are doing something we'd rather not or think it is dishonest - if seen on the global scale.

Go live with Aboriginals. they are probably the only people with clean mind left - the remaining few that the white man has not ruined.

Imagine if Edison would've given up after 51 tries... or any of the other great minds.
Work on yourself a bit. Things take time and practice.

[Biggy Fat]

Originally Posted by TrueDepth

Stop believing them!! Ban yourself from buying anything about making money, and instead go to work making money. Marketers lie. It is a fact. They purposely try to push your emotional buttons. They don't care and will do whatever it takes to make money off of you. They know most people won't raise a fuss and will get so busy with day to day life to get a refund.

Haha, Amen to that.

@Charles Montgomery - Nope, far from done, still kicking it.

[neo3006]

I can agree with you, but you can't give up, I have spent alot of money that I could have used to repair my house at the time, thank god I got it fixed up, but I agree with everyone take one thing at a time, stay focused on that, and get good at it, its just like learning software when you first start off on it, you have no clue how to do it, i work with autocad, photoshop, illustrator and in design now, need to get better at html, but doesn't mean I give up my dreams and stuff, there are peopel that don't know squat about autocad, but I do, do i consider myself a full time expert, no, but I have a job doing it and can get the job done with my basic skills, I will never give up on this, and yea if I made a 1.00 a day i be happy, it shows your on the right track, after reading this post it made me also realize some things especially what one poster said, hell right now I am just posting bloggs and getting them pinged, and drip feeding them, until the other day as bad as I hate to say this I didn't know what that was, now I do, so I was like cool, I learned something valuable. Nothing is done overnight, it may take me till the end of the year to make a buck, but living and learning what works is what counts. Keep the faith and dont give up.