I'm “over” earnings screenshots – aren’t you? | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

14 years ago

People tell you income screenshots doesn't work. But that depends on your traffic.

If you're selling to newbies, income screenshots work.

If you're selling to advanced people, income screenshots doesn't work.

But generally, most screenshots are real.

Their earning disclaimers often offer to verify these incomes.

I don't know how they're going to verify it, but since the FTC is around, I guess they wouldn't fake these disclaimers.

-Shaun

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Barry Unruh

14 years ago

I personally think the best way to sell my success is to go rent an expensive car for one day, pull it up to the pool at the best resort I can afford, and then show all you wannabe's how rich I am driving a Porsche and sitting in front of "My Swimming Pool".

Once you have seen my "real world" evidence of being rich, why would you care about my earnings screenshot.

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Ken Reno 14 years ago

@KansasDragon So true! LOL

Where in Kansas are you? I'm in Hutchinson!
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Alex Mensah

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KansasDragon

I personally think the best way to sell my success is to go rent an expensive car for one day, pull it up to the pool at the best resort I can afford, and then show all you wannabe's how rich I am driving a Porsche and sitting in front of "My Swimming Pool".

Once you have seen my "real world" evidence of being rich, why would you care about my earnings screenshot.

better yet kansasDragon, you can rent a porshe convertable that rides the waves as well, (yes they have those) and drive your car to the beach where you drive it right into the lake

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Ken Reno

14 years ago

yeah screenshots of earnings are overplayed for sure...

#1 - you don't know if the screenshot is real

#2 - you don't know if that money was made with the method they are trying to sell you, or by some other means...

#3 - people who post screenshots almost ALWAYS have a huge list, or at least an affiliate base, and that allows them to get the result they show - but isn't very honest since their customer has no such list or affiliate base.

What REALLY is funny to watch - is these gurus who are selling their buddies products say "This is the same system I've been using for 5 years, can't believe Joe is selling it!"

Then a couple weeks later when promoting their other buddies product they say "This is the same system I've been using for 5 years, can't believe Tommy is selling it!"

They give credit to all their buddies system as if that is what made them the success they are.

I understand that there may be SEVERAL elements to success, and that would be a truthful answer, but try to tell me you made a million dollars using the exact same method that is now for sale for $2K - and then tell me the same thing next week!

Come on!

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Jamie Iaconis 14 years ago

Hi,

I've never liked those screenshots...

Who knows what has been manipulated on these images.

I am not a fan and never was.

Jamie
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werner77

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken Reno

yeah screenshots of earnings are overplayed for sure...

What REALLY is funny to watch - is these gurus who are selling their buddies products say "This is the same system I've been using for 5 years, can't believe Joe is selling it!"

Then a couple weeks later when promoting their other buddies product they say "This is the same system I've been using for 5 years, can't believe Tommy is selling it!"

They give credit to all their buddies system as if that is what made them the success they are.

I understand that there may be SEVERAL elements to success, and that would be a truthful answer, but try to tell me you made a million dollars using the exact same method that is now for sale for $2K - and then tell me the same thing next week!

Come on!

The reason for this is, that they are not really buddies, they are just self proclaimed guru's who know of each other and then help each other to promote their products. Most of these guys have never made a sale outside of the I'll teach you how to make money with the internet market.
All they are selling is a systems selling more "make money with the internet products".

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GeorgR.

14 years ago

doesn't matter whether it's "real" - fact is, it's CHEAP to market like this.

I dont like bragging "gurus" and i am NOT interested in THEIR paypal accounts or clickbank accounts, rather in my own

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ImportEyedea

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Shaun Lee

If you're selling to newbies, income screenshots work.

If you're selling to advanced people, income screenshots doesn't work.

But generally, most screenshots are real.

Their earning disclaimers often offer to verify these incomes.

-Shaun

Extremely valuable point Shaun! I'd say the reason behind it is most likely that the more seasoned Marketers tend to have a better comprehension of most payout plans through experience and exposure. They can calculate/estimate potential income in their heads. Newbies need to see "the proof" in order to be convinced.

Originally Posted by GeorgR.

doesn't matter whether it's "real" - fact is, it's CHEAP to market like this.

The tactics aren't always great but I'd say they're germane to the target audience. When you have a low cost/low ticket program, you'll get a lot of people looking to just "dip their toe" into Marketing. They're new, they don't want to lose a lot of money experimenting and they tend to think everything they don't understand is a "scam".

Showing them modest income proof (read: NOT ferraris pools or beaches) is something most people can understand. We're not millionaires, and we don't pretend to be. But it is enough money to pay bills with, and that's what it does.

This is something you don't see as much with quality higher ticket marketers (Jim Chao great example), but they also have the target audience of more experienced people who know what the score is with MLM.

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ShaneRQR

14 years ago

Never worked for me in the first place. I guess it depends on what your target demographic is.

It's not even that I doubt the screenshots are real. It's simply that it hardly matters whether they are real or not. Just because someone can make lots of money following a certain system doesn't mean that A) they are capable or fully willing to teach that system to others and B) that I can realistically do the same.

It's like a weight-lifter proving how effective his method is by squatting with a crapton of weights on a barbell.
Just because he can do it (and obviously, he can) doesn't mean he can teach me or that I can learn.

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Barry Unruh

14 years ago

Ken, I am just over 8000 miles away from Hutchinson. I'm currently in the Philippines.

My other home is in Newton, so just down the road from you.

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sloanjim

14 years ago

so many are false now it's lost its appeal. In fact it can come across as real sleazy at times. I guess if it is real....then you can try it.

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Matthew Shelton

14 years ago

"I personally think the best way to sell my success is to go rent an expensive car for one day, pull it up to the pool at the best resort I can afford, and then show all you wannabe's how rich I am driving a Porsche and sitting in front of "My Swimming Pool".

Once you have seen my "real world" evidence of being rich, why would you care about my earnings screenshot."

LOL!! KansasDragon - Love it!

Now don't you think you gotta go the other end, too, and show yourself in BEFORE mode

as the "farm boy", "garbage collector", "furniture mover",
- those three come to mind right away from actual sales pages and videos, but seems I recall a really weird one once - pet embalmer??

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Michael Oksa

14 years ago

I was never "under" them.

My guess is that there will always be people that are swayed by them, just as some are swayed by testimonials.

I have no problem with people using either of them, AS LONG AS they are real.

When it comes to screenshots and testimonials, there are three basic groups.

Group 1 - Are convinced to buy (at least in part) because of them.

Group 2 - Doesn't care one way or another, and may not even notice they are there.

Group 3 - Is turned off by their use, and may decide NOT to buy because of them.

As long as the number of people in Group 3 is less than the people in Group 1 and 2, combined, people will continue to use screenshots and testimonials.

All the best,
Michael

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Tom B Banned 14 years ago

I still think they can work on you if the other copy is good.

All it needs to do is give you that idea it could be possible and you are purchasing.
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R Hagel

14 years ago

Michael took the words right out of my mouth (er, letters out of my typing fingers?). I too never cared one way or another by them. But that's just me personally.

Indeed, every one in this thread is basically stating their personal preference. But it really doesn't matter.

For people who're thinking about using screenshots as proof, the answer here is the same as always: test it for yourself to see if it works for your prospects. Let 'em vote with their wallets. It's the only way to know for sure.

Cheers,
Becky

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TheGraduate

14 years ago

people underestimate the power of the mind, you do not need to use income proof screenshots etc to make somebody's mind think that you have a lot of money, you can easily accomplish this by making up a story of how you spent thousands of dollars on expensive seminars and courses, and in business opportunities that did not work for you years ago when you were starting up, and that you do not want the same to happen to them, their mind will automatically believe that if you had the money to do that back then, now you for sure have to be a top gun Internet Marketer.

psychology 101

let's do the math: $110000.00 spent in bad opportunities 12 years ago + 12 years of experience and success = he is a multi millionaire now. Right? well, at least that's what most people will believe, that's what you need.

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

I've never believed them, scroll right past them without even looking at them.

Even if they were real, that doesn't mean anything to you. Why not?

- That's gross sales, BEFORE expenses are deducted. A screenshot showing 5k in sales doesn't take into account what it cost to generate those sales. The person could have spent 6k in advertising and lost money.

- A screenshot doesn't show what YOU could make, it shows what someone else claims they made. Do you have the same mailing list, the same JV partners, the same product line, the same decision making process, the same resources, the same experience...I don't think so, so what the marketer makes is not all that relevant to you then.

But, I can whip up a screen shot of how I made a million dollars selling grass clippings to guys named Fred if you want to buy! Who's in?

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GeorgR.

14 years ago

by the way...i said i think that marketing tactic is CHEAP, but i ALSO believe that it WORKS, at least for the audience targeted.

Just because someone can make lots of money following a certain system...

--> 99% of "big names" will show you screen shots with EARNINGS FROM THEIR OWN PRODUCTS - which does not in the slightest prove or say that its actually their method/system which generated that income.

99% of big name marketers make their money by selling "the method" AND NOT BY USING THEIR OWN METHOD <--

If you look at their earnings and conclude you will get the same money by simply buying their product you are foolish!

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Brad Gosse

14 years ago

I use them rarely but when I do I put the line (think these are fake? ask your rep @ clickbank, whatever about me).

Seems to help

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JayXtreme

14 years ago

I couldn't care less either way.

If anybody is on a sales page, and needs income proof to make the purchase, then they have bigger issues to be worrying about in the first place...

If a product creator needs income proof to sell stuff, then they too, have bigger issues to be worrying about

Peace

Jay

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Midas3 Consulting

14 years ago

I'm more concerned with real ones whereby the vendor is taking earnings from (a) passing them off as earnings from (b) and generating pro rata "monthly " earnings from a single good day or two.

What's worse is it's rather easy to correlate the good days with their launches.

It's not the lies any more, it's the credit they give our intelligence.

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by SimonHarrison

I'm more concerned with real ones whereby the vendor is taking earnings from (a) passing them off as earnings from (b) and generating pro rata "monthly " earnings from a single good day or two.

What's worse is it's rather easy to correlate the good days with their launches.

It's not the lies any more, it's the credit they give our intelligence.

Excellent point, Simon. Although I'm sure some of them know they're not fooling experienced marketers but don't care if we know that because they're preying on the inexperienced. Knowing they don't care if we know about their dirty tricks may be the most despicable thing of all.

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JonMills

14 years ago

I was never into them in the first place, they are too easily fudged

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kemdev

14 years ago

Personally, I think earnings screenshots and login videos
are a little tacky. But maybe that's just me...

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 14 years ago

Here's how they're done - with a line of javascript in the browser - Do You Really Believe Those Clickbank EarningsScreenshots? - Journal - Your Internets

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Matthew Shelton

14 years ago

Metronicity - thanks for the link - what an incredible video!
And a screenshot showing $142 million in sales!
Even gives you the javascript to do it yourself...

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TSCarter

14 years ago

I never go off of them personally.

I look at it this way, if it worked so well, why sell?

Go a step further, if it truly did work well, now you are selling it to the masses for $5.95...the strategy will be even more saturated.

I also hate the pages that are extremely long. I don't want to read a book, written on a single page. I realize its decent for SEO..but tacky nonetheless.

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Angelz

14 years ago

I would never place my trust solely on an earnings screenshot, but I still always love to see them, they give me hope. Hope that $1000/hour is reasonable to expect in the near future.

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workfromhomejobs 14 years ago

Seth Godin has a book called "All marketer are liars". So I guess I should have no problem not to believe any income claim. Marketer just tell part of the stories and that is the reason why there is the famous new FTC ruling.

Believe me there will be more new FTC ruling if consumer continue to complain about marketer's new strategies. I don't know what the strategies are but I believe IM marketer will always come out with new plan and they will make a high ticket products with scarcity hypnosis.

I guess good copy writing only needed for products that is hard to sell or too good to be true. So if anyone thought they need good copy writing for selling small tickets item think again. For newbie out there avoid believing income claim if you want to survive IM longer.

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TyBrown

14 years ago

I like them. I enjoy seeing what other people earn and it gets my juices flowing about what is possible.

If it's real or not, I don't care and have never thought about it.

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oneplusone

14 years ago

If you're wondering which screenshots are real and which aren't, the truth is you cannot know as the real ones look like the fakes.

If you're wondering if it is possible to make the kind of figures you see in screenshots - ABSOLUTELY IT IS POSSIBLE

Myself and many warriors on here have had $5,000, $10,000, $15,000 days.

Compared to the IM guru's this is loose change of course, many of them do 6 figure/7 figure days.

If you believe it isn't possible, then my advice is give up immediately and find some other career path.

Harsh words, but that is the truth.

If you don't believe something is possible from the start, you have no chance of ever making it happen.

A bit of scepticism is healthy, but thinking that everyone is faking their screenshots and nobody really makes big money will mean you are destined to fail, unless you change your mindset.

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pappyy3 14 years ago

Has anyone ever tested the urls that are listed as part of the "Testimonials" of Sales pages?

I can tell you I have, and the number of sites I have come across where the url no longer exists or the url redirects to a adsense loaded domain parking page just makes you wanna SCREAM

Not to mention it does nothing to any any credibility to the sales page.

Just a observation for you all
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The Copy Nazi

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by oneplusone

If you're wondering which screenshots are real and which aren't, the truth is you cannot know as the real ones look like the fakes.

If you're wondering if it is possible to make the kind of figures you see in screenshots - ABSOLUTELY IT IS POSSIBLE

Myself and many warriors on here have had $5,000, $10,000, $15,000 days.

Compared to the IM guru's this is loose change of course, many of them do 6 figure/7 figure days.

If you believe it isn't possible, then my advice is give up immediately and find some other career path.

Harsh words, but that is the truth.

If you don't believe something is possible from the start, you have no chance of ever making it happen.

A bit of scepticism is healthy, but thinking that everyone is faking their screenshots and nobody really makes big money will mean you are destined to fail, unless you change your mindset.

Good point. BTW I prefer seeing video proof rather than static screenshots - but even video can be faked. And aren't the figures on Internet Marketing failure at 99%? I've no idea how anyone arrives at those stats either. And how do you define "failure" anyway? Make absolutely no profit? Or some profit? "99% of all statistics quoted online are BS" - perhaps.

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Kella Bella

14 years ago

I have not been into them because I noticed a few years back on Ebay people who were selling sites were posting screenshots of earnings on a site that had not even been marketed yet. They were just posting the "potential" I guess for the profit. I always thought that was strange so I just disregarded them after that.

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Caleb D Miller

14 years ago

I prefer personal and emotional testimonials over pictures of "earnings."

My biggest cue as to the quality of a product that I might want to purchase is the factor of whether or not the seller is giving any good info away on the sales page. Because if it's all hype, chances are the product could be all hype as well.

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MichaelHiles

14 years ago

You mean there are people that actually BELIEVED screenshots of earnings and used them as a basis for making some kind of purchase decision?

uhhh.... I thought that was just funny stuff that amateur or scammer marketers did because they thought it made them look teh coolness.

wow

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Tomwood

14 years ago

Even I can fake screenshots and my tech skills are minimal just watch the video metroicity

You also fake traffic by buying a lot of cheap bot traffic and then passing it off as real visitors if your selling a how to get traffic guide

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Shaun Lee

14 years ago

Do you guys know that new people entering the IM industry believes income screenshots?

Do you guys know that not everyone is as advanced as we (as in, almost the whole WF community) are?

You guys are missing the point. I once read that what people like or dislike is not what makes them buy. I'm pretty sure many will say they hate hype, but most of the time hype plays a pretty important role.

Again, what people like is not what makes them buy.

-Shaun

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Banned 14 years ago

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Marian 14 years ago

As long as there are real numbers there I don't care. I've gained my experience through the hard work over the years... so my opinion on the systems presented is based on that.

Marian
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jasondinner 14 years ago

ok, so you have gone over a bunch of reasons why they may not be as effective anymore,
why they don't work on you, how they can easily be faked, and why marketers shouldn't
use them on their salesletters...

Could you be so kind as to offer a proactive approach to get the same message across?

When it comes to making money online, people need to see proof that the seller knows
what they are talking about.

And this actually goes for any type of desired result that is being sold. Proof is
super important and people do want it.

So if you're saying the use of screenshots shouldn't be used anymore, even videos of
the seller logging into their accounts, then what element of proof can be used as an
alternative?

Has anyone here tested screenshots vs. no screenshots, video proof vs. no video proof, etc?

Would be interested in hearing someone with some real life results and not just
speculation as to the effectiveness of this particular approach.

Thanks,
Jason
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Rod Cortez

14 years ago

Originally Posted by BIG Mike

Assuming the screenshots are not faked, I think everyone misses the point of what they really mean. They inidicate what the seller, with his or her unique mix of education, experience, ability, effort, timing and luck was able to accomplish using the method promoted.

It's statistically unlikely, even across a large sampling of buyers, that more than a minor percentage of them would achieve similar results. In other words, if you've got to buy someone else's system to make money rather than develop your own, you're probably going to fail with it.

Don't believe me? Then ask yourself this, "Why isn't every person in IM consistently earning $25K or more per month?"

I'm not suggesting that you cannot learn from such methods, but if you are basing your decision to buy on the assumption that you will be able to replicate those earnings, I've got some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you

I could sit down this afternoon and write a short report on just one of my revenue streams detailing how I earn $25K per month on autopilot, complete with screenshots and authenticated by Brian Kindsvater. And you know what?

I sincerely doubt more than 25 folks I know here could even come close to replicating it...arrogant of me maybe, but it's the truth. Because what makes it possible is such a unique combination of things very few people here would have the prerequisites to pull it off.

That's why I won't be writing that report this afternoon :rolleyes:

Let's say you wanted to open a barbershop...so you go around town and talk to the local barbers about their profession. You're going to hear one of two things - they're either going to lie about all the money they never made or they'll plead poverty because they don't want the competition.

If you really want to see the earnings of barbers, you look for accredited research based on income areas by region to get the averages. That will give you the unbiased data you need to make your decision.

For the same reasons when you're looking into which university to attend they don't pitch you earnings - they may point out their rich and famous alumni, but they don't base their promotion on earnings.

Unless the screenshots/earnings are authenticated by a third party along with a breakdown of expenses and net income, it's a flag to me to avoid purchasing the product in the first place.

NEVER buy something from a seller who is the sole provider of performance data...that's a sure formula for failure right out of the box.

This is the most logical, solid post I've read this week so far. I highlighted the paragraph that I could relate too. I'm currently coaching two of my VAs because they want to learn how to earn money in the online arena, one of them is executing extremely well while the other seems to come up with self-perceived "obstacles" that keep them from doing their homework. Some people simply cannot let go of the employee mindset. They've got a proven, million dollar business plan with a step-by-step system and he still finds a reason to self-sabatogue.

"Developing your own system" is something that doesn't get discussed enough in this forum. It's true that few people can replicate another person's system and the reasons for that are nearly endless. In my experience it usually boil down to mindset and a lack of focus.

I ignore screenshots. If it's a product or service that will improve my business and it has a solid refund policy, I will invest in it and give it an honest try. I'm not over them because I simply ignore them, my focus is somewhere else.

RoD

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ImportEyedea

14 years ago

Interesting that the "login" shot also got grouped with this conversation.

Using screen shots to show prospects a walk through of the Back Office can be valuable in both training and advertising. Many people are still kind of new to the Internet and simply need to be lead.

Think about this: When you head to the main page of a site you need to log in to, do you automatically look to the top left or right of the screen for the link?

We take for granted sometimes how familiar the Web is for those with more experience.For many, its still very new and very confusing.

I kid you not, we still have signups who cannot copy and paste using the right click of the their mouse.

But these same people may have 20 years of offline marketing experience that could be extremely valuable to our team as a whole.

On the other side of the coin, there are people that are computer whizzes but don't know how to market.

Its about finding a method that appeals to both and more importantly produces results for both.

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randalblanchette

14 years ago

Nah, I love them if they are incorporated into a video with login details. None of those cheesy screen shots though. It motivates me to think this dope can make money somewhere that I am not. Must be the competitive guy in me

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Rod Cortez

14 years ago

Originally Posted by nougat

Hey, is it just me? I see all these sales letters and videos that say "I've made all this money and here's proof" and I'm just thinking - how can I possibly know this is real?!

It's gotten to the point where even when they are saying on Camtasia:"Watch, I'm logging in to 1shoppingcart, live right now..." and I'm just thinking, yeah, right....

A few years back I was in a top "guru's" office and thought of asking him to login to his Clickbank account right there so I could get some real inspiration

- wish I'd done that, because I've gotten to the point where I have to have the person and their proof right in front of me to be convinced.

What about you - feel the same way?
Suspect that lots of other people feel that way too?

Yes, it's great to show people your inspiring results
- but how can you get them to believe you, online?

Love to hear what you Warriors think -

I couldn't tell you either way. I'm way too laser-focused on growing my own business to allow such thoughts to even enter my head.

RoD "My-Coffee-Mug-Is-Bigger-Than-Yours" Cortez

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JackPowers

14 years ago

So, let's say you sell a product in the IM niche and you don't include earnings proof.

Or you sell a weight loss product and you don't have before/after pics.

How do you offer social proof instead? Testimonials? Those are easily faked as well.

I think most people expect these kind of things, even if they curse at them. The lack of them may start people to subconsciously doubt the message.

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Vinod Kumar Jadge

14 years ago

Originally Posted by JackPowers

So, let's say you sell a product in the IM niche and you don't include earnings proof.

Or you sell a weight loss product and you don't have before/after pics.

How do you offer social proof instead? Testimonials? Those are easily faked as well.

I think most people expect these kind of things, even if they curse at them. The lack of them may start people to subconsciously doubt the message.

I'm not a huge fan of Testimonials. Most of the testimonials never seems to match the pics.
* The before and after pics can also be faked, agree.

Why people hesitate to make a video of the day starting the product on their blog and logging in their accounts at the same time. And then come back in 2-3 months and show whether it worked or not.

Hope, I'm making sense here. I'm using one product from this WSO and made a video (find in signature) of my traffic, Adsense etc.

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Mrs S

14 years ago

Jack makes a good point. People want to know that a product does what it says it does - that's why customer reviews on Amazon are so powerful. In fact maybe that's the answer to the problem. Open up comments on the bottom of the sales page and encourage customers to post their views.

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edhan

14 years ago

Personally, I do believe what is shown are true but what that is not said that only maybe top 10 percents of people will have such success.

Basically it will depend on individual who took up the business package and how they proceed from there. Some bought them and still take no action. Some bought them and tried out for a while. The successful people take what are needed to be done and receive the rewards. Of course I am not saying everyone that takes the action will succeed. But the opportunity of earning is higher than those who never take action.

What my personal advice will be choose wisely and take action when you have chosen it.

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Dave d

14 years ago

If sellers switch to "Log In Proof" I can see how that would get newbies foaming at the mouth. However as others have said you do not know -

How much was actually used to generate those earnings.

If they used tools or sources which you may not have access to such as a list

If they had access to JV's

How much money they lost in the process if any

How long it took them to earn that amount.

And the list goes on so I dont think it matters if sellers witch to video proof or not.

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I'm "over" earnings screenshots - aren't you?

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