Long Tail Keywords

[Rob D]

Let's say I find a longtail keyword with no competition in speech marks and a handful of sites. For arguments sake we'll call it "Really Long Long-Tail-Keyword". Fantastic, it has no competition and a reasonable number of searches.

But when I optimize my page for it and someone types that exact phrase into google - they get a whole heap of pages for the shorter keywords "Long-Tail-Keyword" and "Keyword".

People don't search with quotes - so why optimize pages for long tail keywords?

[crystalq]

I dont optimize for LTK i just right articles for them.

[gpg]

I used to think the same way but, I learned this from my own searching habits. Sometimes I do search with quotes. Other times especially in Google I will enter in what I am searching for and when the results come up I go down to the bottom and click on search withing these results. What you end up with is a long tail keyword.

[Rob D]

Originally Posted by crystalq

I dont optimize for LTK i just right articles for them.

Surely this amounts to the same thing? You are hoping your article will rank for the LTK when it is actually competing with the seed keyword.

[John Rowe]

Originally Posted by Rob D

Let's say I find a longtail keyword with no competition in speech marks and a handful of sites. For arguments sake we'll call it "Really Long Long-Tail-Keyword". Fantastic, it has no competition and a reasonable number of searches.

But when I optimize my page for it and someone types that exact phrase into google - they get a whole heap of pages for the shorter keywords "Long-Tail-Keyword" and "Keyword".

People don't search with quotes - so why optimize pages for long tail keywords?

Rob, without knowing how long you waited to take top position... and without knowing what you consider optimized... and without knowing how fierce the competition is in that niche for the shorter keywords... it would be nearly impossible to evaluate why you're not getting top positions.

But, when optimized correctly, in a niche where the competition isn't ridiculous, your lontails will take top positions.

[JeffH]

Just a quick question: You said it has a reasonable number of searches. Are you using Google's keyword tool? Did you set the match type to "exact", or use the default "broad" search?

[XFactor]

Originally Posted by Rob D

Let's say I find a longtail keyword with no competition in speech marks and a handful of sites. For arguments sake we'll call it "Really Long Long-Tail-Keyword". Fantastic, it has no competition and a reasonable number of searches.

But when I optimize my page for it and someone types that exact phrase into google - they get a whole heap of pages for the shorter keywords "Long-Tail-Keyword" and "Keyword".

People don't search with quotes - so why optimize pages for long tail keywords?

Even if an exact keyword has absolutely no competing sites, and you optimize a page
for it, this does not mean you will rank right away.

You still need to build backlinks.

For example, lets say the keyword is called red monkeys who fly at night

And lets say this keyword gets good searches but has zero competing sites
(for that specific keyword).

And then you build a page with that keyword.

Well unless you get backlinks for your new page/site then other sites will still rank that
may only have variations of the keyword, such as red monkeys, or
monkeys that fly, or monkeys at night, etc.

So its all about the backlinks.

Hope I explained that clear enough.

- John

[Cash Blasters Online]

Getting ranked on google really isn't that hard, it just takes time to research and come up with a solidly built website, using tons of keywords in each sentence, only thing is you want your web site to say something more than just loading keywords, and I try to find the top 50 keywords and use them in such a way ...so it becomes an online game.... of out doing the other guy who is ranked high in the number 1 spot.
Lets face it we all want to be number 1.
Next even if you have created the best website around in the world, you're still will not get ranked without backlinks.

I always figure, if I have a superior web site over someone else, then I can get ranked fast with much less of a number of backlinks. example, a great keyword site, built strong with good info can get ranked with less than 35 backlinks,while other sites may have over 5000 backlinks.This is a very true statment I have come to realize.

Yet an average site with 1500 backlinks might not make the front page.
How do I know this you may ask?
Because I have ranked websites many times in the top 3 on google.
At least 50 web sites of mine, have been ranked that I designed. And I also make notes and I try understand why they get ranked so high and fast. BUt you must remember the Internet is always changing and google won't be ranked number 1 for Internet searches forever.
BUt They have been riding the way for years now.
Look at ebay, it's falling yet was huge for years and still is.
But ebay got greedy I feel.
I always remember nothing lasts forever, if you get ranked number 1 enjoy it and ride the wave, yet I do feel I can get ranked over and over again using techinques to do it. And if I can do it so can anyone.
I do have my secrets. Which go far beyond just keywords and backlinks.
But I really feel getting a number 1 ranking is possible if you do your homework, study and don't rush it.

I did enjoy your write up.
Thanks
P.S. I use major amount of keyword quotes and keywords

[Rob D]

Originally Posted by John Rowe

Rob, without knowing how long you waited to take top position... and without knowing what you consider optimized... and without knowing how fierce the competition is in that niche for the shorter keywords... it would be nearly impossible to evaluate why you're not getting top positions.

But, when optimized correctly, in a niche where the competition isn't ridiculous, your lontails will take top positions.

Thanks John, this is not a specific instance - more of a general one. What I am asking is do the seed or shorter keywords take positions in front of a long tail keyword that contains them. What you are saying is "It's not that simple - but with work the LT keyword will rank ahead of a seed keyword for the specific longtail search."

[Rob D]

Originally Posted by JeffH

Just a quick question: You said it has a reasonable number of searches. Are you using Google's keyword tool? Did you set the match type to "exact", or use the default "broad" search?

My question is not to do with any specific term, though I am in the process of collecting a lot of keyword data from wordtracker.

[Rob D]

Originally Posted by XFactor

Even if an exact keyword has absolutely no competing sites, and you optimize a page
for it, this does not mean you will rank right away.

You still need to build backlinks.

For example, lets say the keyword is called red monkeys who fly at night

And lets say this keyword gets good searches but has zero competing sites
(for that specific keyword).

And then you build a page with that keyword.

Well unless you get backlinks for your new page/site then other sites will still rank that
may only have variations of the keyword, such as red monkeys, or
monkeys that fly, or monkeys at night, etc.

So its all about the backlinks.

Hope I explained that clear enough.

- John

Thanks John, it was actually your adsense thread that started this line of enquiry for me. As I understand it I am going to have to do a fair amount of link building to my pages on top of the on page optimization. In your old thread you said you had done only limited link building to your site and not to individual pages, so is the importance link to the page with the LT keywords or just providing the SE spiders a way of reaching the page(via a home page)?

[Steve Taylor]

Originally Posted by XFactor

So its all about the backlinks.

- John

Agreed,
But with your keyword as anchor text.

-Steve

[XFactor]

Originally Posted by Steve Taylor

Agreed,
But with your keyword as anchor text.

-Steve

True. I did not mention it because I thought that was common knowledge.

- John

[XFactor]

Originally Posted by Rob D

Thanks John, it was actually your adsense thread that started this line of enquiry for me. As I understand it I am going to have to do a fair amount of link building to my pages on top of the on page optimization. In your old thread you said you had done only limited link building to your site and not to individual pages, so is the importance link to the page with the LT keywords or just providing the SE spiders a way of reaching the page(via a home page)?

Yes that worked for me, because my articles are, at most, 2 links away from the
home page - with half of the linking directly from the home page.

- John

[Rob D]

Yip - I have my pages set up in a similar fashion. Homepage links to the ten most recent articles and to the categories - categories link to all articles. There is also a link to a sitemap off the homepage which lists all articles, and as google and alexa bot found their way to my page within 15 minutes of the new layout being released I figure the backlinks are dong their job.

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Rob D

Let's say I find a longtail keyword with no competition in speech marks and a handful of sites. For arguments sake we'll call it "Really Long Long-Tail-Keyword". Fantastic, it has no competition and a reasonable number of searches.

But when I optimize my page for it and someone types that exact phrase into google - they get a whole heap of pages for the shorter keywords "Long-Tail-Keyword" and "Keyword".

People don't search with quotes - so why optimize pages for long tail keywords?

Hi Rob,

The reason you would use quotes, while the typical searcher doesn't, is you're attempting to find the number of sites that use the EXACT phrase, not just the general keywords.

Pages using the exact phrase will generally rank higher...So, by using quotes you are really trying to find the number of pages that have a little SEO, not the total number of pages containing either/or search term.

For example, this searches will return:
dog collar - any page that contains either "dog" or "collar" or both...For example: I'm really hot under the COLLAR, my neighbor always ;arks his DOG on my fron yard.

As you can see, this sentence contains both keywords, but has nothing to do with "dog collars".


However, if we search for "dog collar", only pages that use that EXACT phrase will be returned.


There's even more advanced searches that will give much more accurate results to determine how many competitors have done basic SEO.

I use a combination that shows me pages that contain the keywords in ALL of the following places:
Keywords in page title
Keywords in body content
Keywords in anchor text

This number is MUCH lower, and it tells me how many sites have done just the most basic of SE optimization. I consider this to be a much mofre accurate way of telling me how much competition there is, instead of all the pages that have all/some of the keywords.

[XFactor]

Originally Posted by Kurt

I use a combination that shows me pages that contain the keywords in ALL of the following places:
Keywords in page title
Keywords in body content
Keywords in anchor text

Hey Kurt, do you know of a keyword tool that will do this automatically for a list
of keywords?

- John