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Mail my list until it screams? Is this good advice?

by Marcus Robbins
57 replies
I wasn't told this by some newbie just rehacking soundbites at me, I was told this by someone who's considered to be a guru.

Not personally I might add, but in a DVD series from a seminar, but he made it pretty clear.

And being able to think for myself I thought I'd actually do some research.

Can I politely ask for ONLY people with personal experience to answer my Question? I can get theory anywhere.

Has anyone had BETTER results in terms of sales and lower unsubscribes (let's face it anything else doesn't really matter) when they mail every day than just a couple of times a week or even a month?

Thanks for your help

Marcus
#advice #good #list #mail #screams
  • Profile picture of the author fasteasysuccess
    The key is to mail as often as possible but when you do make sure it's about value not pitching and selling something. you can always mention your product/service but the main communication should be all about value first. Then they will continue to open and read your messages.

    So me personally I mail a few times a week and always provide value. If you continue to do that you'll have a very nice responsive list and most importantly help others.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by fasteasysuccess View Post

      The key is to mail as often as possible but when you do make sure it's about value not pitching and selling something. you can always mention your product/service but the main communication should be all about value first. Then they will continue to open and read your messages.

      So me personally I mail a few times a week and always provide value. If you continue to do that you'll have a very nice responsive list and most importantly help others.

      The key is to pitch in every email you send, even if its a soft pitch like a PS or something

      People only get out of shape and unsubscribe if they get an email in which they dont get what they are expecting.

      So if they expect to get a pitch of some kind in every email you send (because you trained them to expect one by doing it consistently) they wont get upset when they see one.

      Robert

      PS: A list is just a marketing tool, thats the only reason for building one. So dont be shy about using it for the use it was intended
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
        Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

        The key is to pitch in every email you send, even if its a soft pitch like a PS or something

        People only get out of shape and unsubscribe if they get an email in which they dont get what they are expecting.

        So if they expect to get a pitch of some kind in every email you send (because you trained them to expect one by doing it consistently) they wont get upset when they see one.

        Robert

        PS: A list is just a marketing tool, thats the only reason for building one. So dont be shy about using it for the use it was intended
        Excellent!

        I have noticed a lot of the gurus take that route and have thought it was mainly because they had a branded name that they could get away with it.

        Let's say you wanted to shift from an all content newsletter to a pitch newsletter.

        How much time would you give in between before you lapse over to the new style?

        Thanks!
        Dan Brock
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        • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
          Originally Posted by Daniel Brock View Post

          Excellent!

          I have noticed a lot of the gurus take that route and have thought it was mainly because they had a branded name that they could get away with it.

          Let's say you wanted to shift from an all content newsletter to a pitch newsletter.

          How much time would you give in between before you lapse over to the new style?

          Thanks!
          Dan Brock
          Answer is Dan I dont know your subscribers so cant say

          I can tell you what I did...

          I just made the change, and let those who didnt like go on their merry way

          I made a profit doing it, even with those not liking it moving on

          Though if you want to edge your bets (and thats not a criticism or veiled snipe, because i dont know what would have happened if i had edged my bets)

          You can just start upping the pitches over a month or two and then go all out.

          The trick is not to see the unsubscribes as personal, just see the buying trend

          OH one other thing for a long time I wouldnt pitch high ticket items, becuase i feared my list wouldnt convert well.

          You know the argument 95% of people in this busines cant afford it, The first time I did it, I was pleasantly suprised

          I now will Happilly take the 5% on a $1k or $2k item


          Robert
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      • Profile picture of the author Boomachucka
        Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

        The key is to pitch in every email you send, even if its a soft pitch like a PS or something
        While you certainly have more experience than me, I heartily disagree. By all conventional marketing techniques (even those outside of IM), it seems that the most effective campaigns will be ones who grab the prospect's attention by doing something that isn't consistent with what everyone else is. Example: Energy drink manufacturers throwing massive parties near University campuses. It reaches out to their audience by doing something totally different from those TV advertisements that the students likely see as well and increases their visibility.

        I realize that's not related at all to the IM niche, but the same concept applies (albeit much less extreme) to e-mail marketing.

        It would make sense that if you had 1 pitch e-mail for every 3-6 that are actually helpful, you would probably have higher conversions. This would happen because people aren't expecting you to try to sell them something when they open the e-mail, so it must be something good. I mean, if you send out pitch after pitch, people will quickly catch on after buying (actually, likely not buying) 4 or 5 products in a row from you. This way, you are not consistent with what they are used to seeing from you, it will be a more memorable or at the very least attention grabbing event.

        No disrespect intended, I'm sure some people get by just fine with your technique. Just my 2 cents.

        [EDIT] This is mainly from a customer's perspective, just so you guys know.
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        • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
          Originally Posted by Boomachucka View Post

          While you certainly have more experience than me, I heartily disagree. By all conventional marketing techniques (even those outside of IM), it seems that the most effective campaigns will be ones who grab the prospect's attention by doing something that isn't consistent with what everyone else is. Example: Energy drink manufacturers throwing massive parties near University campuses. It reaches out to their audience by doing something totally different from those TV advertisements that the students likely see as well and increases their visibility.

          I realize that's not related at all to the IM niche, but the same concept applies (albeit much less extreme) to e-mail marketing.

          It would make sense that if you had 1 pitch e-mail for every 3-6 that are actually helpful, you would probably have higher conversions. This would happen because people aren't expecting you to try to sell them something when they open the e-mail, so it must be something good. I mean, if you send out pitch after pitch, people will quickly catch on after buying (actually, likely not buying) 4 or 5 products in a row from you. This way, you are not consistent with what they are used to seeing from you, it will be a more memorable or at the very least attention grabbing event.

          No disrespect intended, I'm sure some people get by just fine with your technique. Just my 2 cents.

          [EDIT] This is mainly from a customer's perspective, just so you guys know.
          I spent the first 3 years of my online career using that doctrine

          when i made the switch, I made 10 times the money from email that I was making just sending content. And a lot less work]

          I say this a lot here, but i will say it again...

          What people say they respond to, and what they actually respond to are two different things

          Thats why junk mail is still landing in your mail box (online or physical) because despite people saying they hate junk mail, enough people buy from it to make very worthwhile sending


          I put content on my blog, not in emails
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          • Profile picture of the author Boomachucka
            Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

            I spent the first 3 years of my online career using that doctrine

            when i made the switch, I made 10 times the money from email that I was making just sending content. And a lot less work]
            Hmmm, I find that very interesting.

            I suppose it's like the newsletters you get from sites like TigerDirect, if anybody uses them. Or like a Future Shop catalog you get in the mail.

            Thanks for the tip!
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          • Profile picture of the author discrat
            Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

            I spent the first 3 years of my online career using that doctrine

            when i made the switch, I made 10 times the money from email that I was making just sending content. And a lot less work]

            I say this a lot here, but i will say it again...

            What people say they respond to, and what they actually respond to are two different things

            Thats why junk mail is still landing in your mail box (online or physical) because despite people saying they hate junk mail, enough people buy from it to make very worthwhile sending


            I put content on my blog, not in emails

            I am glad someone finally here is saying the way things really are and the way they should be. It is becoming more montonous and quite boring when ALL I see on the Warrior Forum is people saying "just deliver quality content after quality content and over deliver and the money will somehow and some way follow if you do this " yadayada yadya etc...etc...

            Most of these incessant cheerleaders who balyhoo about concentrating on just delivering free quality information in emails are in the IM Niche. This tactic may hold true for this Niche, but when someone is having a Panic attack and they want a Solution to their problem right then and there .......well a Product pitch is NOT just good business sense it is a necessity for the Customer !!

            Please people, dont be scared and naive by thinking its bad to put in a subtle Pitch in ALL emails you send out !!

            Thanks again Robert for setting the Warrior Forum straight !!
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            Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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  • Profile picture of the author Flipfilter
    There's a pretty useful interview on Mixergy with Justin Premick at Aweber - some good indepth advice from the man who ought to know :-)

    How To Grow An Email Mailing List – The Justin Premick Interview | Mixergy - For ambitious upstarts and startups
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    Latest Post on FlipFilter.com "Buying and Selling Mobile App Businesses - An Interview with Eric Owens'"
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  • Profile picture of the author fasteasysuccess
    absolutely robert a list is about the money but like I said if you constantly pitch pitch pitch then goodbye list.

    However if you are giving value people look forward to your emails and open them You can and always add in there or a message about your product/service but main focus value and you'll have a much more reponsive and better list.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by fasteasysuccess View Post

      absolutely robert a list is about the money but like I said if you constantly pitch pitch pitch then goodbye list.

      However if you are giving value people look forward to your emails and open them You can and always add in there or a message about your product/service but main focus value and you'll have a much more reponsive and better list.

      You didnt read what i said... And your comment here is simply not true

      The responsiveness of your list is not effected by the pitch's you put in the emails, you can pitch pitch pitch if you want and as long as the emails are written by you, and have your personality in them it wont effect the sales

      unsubscribes wont rise or fall because of the pitches

      Only thing that effects responsiveness, and unsubscribe levels, is subscribers opening your email and finding something they were'nt expecting.

      Lists are built to make money from thats the only reason for building it in the first place its a marketing tool plain and simple just like ppc or article marketing its a way to get people to see your sales messages

      only difference between a responsive list and a dead one is that the person owning the list stamps his/her personality on the messages. That way only the people who like him/her stay

      Which means they are responsive to the owners messages.

      Robert
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  • Profile picture of the author fasteasysuccess
    I'll disagree on this one big time. If i get messages everyday and all about the pitch I no longer stay on. The only reason people open your emails is because they want to read what you say. if all you say is buy this and buy that then your list isn't going to keep reading your messages.

    Its about giving value and making money. But if youre all about taking and not giving then chances are youre loosing out anyways.

    If you go to a store to look and check it out and all you do is get bombarded by salespeople tackling you then chances are you're going to not go there anymore.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
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    • Profile picture of the author richhaz
      I've stayed on a list for more than two years where I have received two e-mails a day.

      Did every one include a pitch of some sort? Yes

      Why haven't I unsubscribed? Because I value the expertise of the "pitcher", and he delivers pitches that offer value.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dunder
        Originally Posted by NY1 View Post

        I've built lists in the IM niche and several others that were non-im.

        This is what I found from personal experience:

        In the IM niche, the list was pretty responsive (sales and clicks) when mailed every day.

        For the non-im niches, 2-3 times a week worked out much better.

        The difference is, IMers are on the computer and in their e-mail accounts daily. Sometimes multiple times per day.

        The non-imers are not.

        They got to work Mon-Fri, and maybe look at their e-mails only a couple of times a week.

        When they do this, and they see that out of their last 10 e-mails, 7 are from you, to them, you are a spammer of sorts.

        These were not just observations...I sent out e-mail surveys and found that for people that are not on the computer every day, they get overwhelmed by so many e-mails, no matter what the quality of content is.

        A common response for unsubscribing that I got in a non-im niche when I tested mailing more frequently was,

        "Great information, lessons, just don't have the time to keep up with the e-mails."

        So, the real answer lies in YOUR *target* market.

        The gurus almost always give you examples from their IM lists. So, for them their data is true.

        If your target market is people interested in recipes for example, they may not respond well at all to a daily e-mail, but to one or two per week.
        Thanks for that.

        I think we always have to bear in mind that what works in one niche won't necessarily work in a different niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author psresearch
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      No offense, but Robert Puddy has been doing this for a long time.

      And I get exactly what he is saying.

      You can send pitches, as long as they contain your personality AND it's what is expected.

      It's all about expectations.

      I have found that if you set the expectation of "free free free", then you mail a pitch, responsiveness drops and unsubscribes happen

      But...if you do info/pitch emails regularly, then it stays fairly steady.

      Finally, remember, YOU may not be your market. The best bet is to test.

      Rob
      Simple and awesome post. A few months back I changed one of my optins for a list geared towards home-business newbies to tell "magical thinkers" and "easy-money seekers" it wasn't the list for them and that they could expect low-cost affordable ways to start (i.e., NOT free).

      Plus, I started emailing the list MUCH more than ever before.

      Results? Profits up. Close to zero unsubscribe methods complaining about things not being free.
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  • Profile picture of the author fasteasysuccess
    ccmusicman-I see what you're saying and Robert but what the original thing we were talking about was regurally or not sending emails. If youre list signs up for alerts or whatever than send it to them but if you promise x and deliver y then doesn't matter what you're selling your response is going down.

    If you want to send pitches to people who want them thats great but all I was saying is you'll make more money providing value and offering your product/service versus pitchfest.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
    Mail your list as often as you have something valuable
    and of interest to them - whether that be content or
    a paid offer.

    People don't mind being contacted as long as you're
    really adding value to their lives in some way - so
    frequency of contact is less of an issue.

    Think relevancy of contact rather than frequency of
    contact.

    Dedicated to your success,

    Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author fasteasysuccess
    Exactly-Thats what I said all along Shaun.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarah Russell
    Definitely agree that it depends on the niche. There's a lot of things you can get away with in IM that you can't necessarily if you're working in something like gardening.

    Granted, my personal preference skews away from anyone who mails more than a few times a week - no matter what niche, no matter how big the name and no matter what the content (ie - informative vs pitch). I just don't have the extra time to read all that, and chances are I don't need a single one of the products being pitched (I have a business plan and I focus on the things I know work for me). Although I can definitely see how that style works with some subscribers in the IM niche - especially lists made up mostly of newbies.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Robbins
    Thanks a lot. Big thanks to Robert P and NY1 for the actual experience and results they shared. That's worth a fortune.

    That's what I wanted. I was also really interested to see how many posts came from the point of view of being a customer rather than a marketer.

    Wonder if there's any relationship between amount of money earned and whether you see yourself more as a customer or as a marketer?

    Thanks

    Marcus
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by Marcus Robbins View Post

      Thanks a lot. Big thanks to Robert P and NY1 for the actual experience and results they shared. That's worth a fortune.

      That's what I wanted. I was also really interested to see how many posts came from the point of view of being a customer rather than a marketer.

      Wonder if there's any relationship between amount of money earned and whether you see yourself more as a customer or as a marketer?

      Thanks

      Marcus
      The answer to that question is an unequivical yes... there is a corelation between how much you make and which side of the fence you see from.

      2 very quick examples

      I once had my wife use my cell phone to phone in orders from a workshop presentation

      at the end of the day she came to me aand said "do you know how much you spent on phone calls today phoning those orders in over £20"

      My reply was do you know how much we brought in from those orders £20,000

      She said oh... right... yes i see hmmmm


      2nd

      One of my tech guys was here this weekend setting up some video stuff on my nice new windows 7 computer on the desktop of which i had the exchange rate tool showing

      He said and i quote "the exchange rate is really bad right now"

      I said yes if your buying, but i plan to make more than i spend so i get to bank 20% more now than i did a month ago because of the weakness of the pound against the dollar, long live the bad exchange rate.

      Same info different reaction

      My wife and my tech guy saw a cost...

      I saw a profit
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  • Profile picture of the author geo gaskin
    My 2cent ,You mail me every day and I,m unsubscribing.
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  • Profile picture of the author drmani
    Originally Posted by Marcus Robbins View Post

    And being able to think for myself I thought I'd actually do some research.

    Can I politely ask for ONLY people with personal experience to answer my Question? I can get theory anywhere.

    Marcus
    Marcus, you CAN ask for answers - and you'll get many, most different from
    each other. And they won't matter - to YOU.

    The "actually do some research" works best when you test with YOUR list.
    Then watch the metrics. Measure, tweak, track, revise, improve. That's
    more effective research, imho.

    Here's a plan. Split your list into two. Send them separate autoresponder
    emails. On one of the series, pitch, pitch and pitch. On the other, use an
    alternative approach. Monitor open rates, clickthroughs and unsubscribes.
    In a short while, you'll have a clearer answer than you'll get from any
    number of other people's experiences.

    All success
    Dr.Mani
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    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      Also, anyone willing to learn from someone else's experience could do
      worse than listen to everything Robert Puddy has said on this thread.
      What he used to do, what he does now, and what works.

      Robert has probably tested more variables than most list builders will
      ever do in a decade!

      Another little note I sent my list some years back may help - and show
      how, if you can justify and rationalize it logically, either approach will/can
      be effective.

      It's here

      All success
      Dr.Mani
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Originally Posted by drmani View Post

      Marcus, you CAN ask for answers - and you'll get many, most different from
      each other. And they won't matter - to YOU.

      The "actually do some research" works best when you test with YOUR list.
      Then watch the metrics. Measure, tweak, track, revise, improve. That's
      more effective research, imho.

      Here's a plan. Split your list into two. Send them separate autoresponder
      emails. On one of the series, pitch, pitch and pitch. On the other, use an
      alternative approach. Monitor open rates, clickthroughs and unsubscribes.
      In a short while, you'll have a clearer answer than you'll get from any
      number of other people's experiences.

      All success
      Dr.Mani
      Exactly.

      A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that their
      way is the right/best way.

      You have the pitchers... "pitch, pitch, pitch is the way!"

      Then you have the givers... "give, give, give is the way!"

      And the mixers... "give and pitch is the way!"

      Guess what? Hardly any of them have split-tested one or
      more approaches with the same list at the same time.

      So their views are often just untested opinion.

      Until you split test these approaches with your OWN list
      you'll never know which is best for you and your list.

      Personally, I couldn't give a rats ass if pitch, pitch, pitch
      brings me in more money. I'm not a pitcher... end of story.

      What matters to ME is that I run my business in alignment
      with my own values and that involves give and pitch and
      not just relentless pitching in pursuit of the 'almighty' dollar.

      Dedicated to your success,

      Shaun
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        What matters to ME is that I run my business in alignment with my own values and that involves give and pitch and
        not just relentless pitching in pursuit of the 'almighty' dollar.

        Shaun
        I just saw this paragraph... And it got up my nose

        We were asked a very specific question which I answered as honestly as possible... Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

        But the bolded part is judgmental and sour grapes, i presume because nobody agreed with your way... No stigma should be attached to anyone trying to squeeze maximum profits from their business

        Pusuit of the almighty dollar/pound is not a bad thing, you will be pulling out the hitler card next...

        I always see that response as a sign you lost the argument, so time to pull an imotive phrase out of your ***

        Each to his own, niether is bad (one just creates more wealth is all)

        Robert
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        • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
          Sour grapes? Not at all.

          From what I've read so far, you've proven beyond doubt
          that pitching in every e-mail is a valid way to go and a
          sure fire way of making money.

          There are other approaches and each to their own.

          I just CHOOSE the approach that sits well with me and
          my own value system.

          You choose to use your own approach that sits well with
          you and that's up to you.

          I'm in business to earn money MY way doing what I want
          and not what anyone else tells me to do or says is best.

          I always pass my marketing methods through a gut check
          and not just a bottom line consideration.

          Other people have different approaches of course.

          In this thread, I've yet to see solid proof that the pitch
          approach is better or worse than a give or give&pitch
          approach.

          Why?

          As of yet, no one has given solid stats from a real-time
          split test comparing the various approaches - so nothing
          has been proven as of yet.

          That said, I suspect that the pitch, pitch, pitch approach
          will produce more money.

          I just choose not to do it as I have additional ways of
          measuring my own success - one of which is money. Others
          include how I feel about the way I conduct my business and
          interact with my prospects and clients.

          Different strokes for different folks.

          Just because someone has a different viewpoint doesn't
          make them wrong. It's not a black and white world.

          Dedicated to your success,

          Shaun


          Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

          I just saw this paragraph... And it got up my nose

          We were asked a very specific question which I answered as honestly as possible... Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

          But the bolded part is judgmental and sour grapes, i presume because nobody agreed with your way... No stigma should be attached to anyone trying to squeeze maximum profits from their business

          Pusuit of the almighty dollar/pound is not a bad thing, you will be pulling out the hitler card next...

          I always see that response as a sign you lost the argument, so time to pull an imotive phrase out of your ***

          Each to his own, niether is bad (one just creates more wealth is all)

          Robert
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Email your list until it bleeds, gets on its hands and knees, begs for mercy
            and offers up its first born for you to stop.

            Okay, all kidding aside now.

            How your list behaves is going to have a lot to do with how you built it in
            the first place.

            Are they finely targeted or just a hodge podge of whatever?

            Are they people likely to buy or die hard freebie seekers?

            And then there is as Robert Puddy said...expectations.

            If you blindside your list (send them something they're not expecting)
            they're going to tune you out.

            I make it very clear to my lists what to expect from me and then...

            I deliver on it!

            You have to have a personality and not just be another cookie cutter
            "me too" pitchman.

            Do you know why I loved being on the Rich Jerk's list?

            Because his emails made me laugh. I loved the way that guy wrote. It
            cracked me up. When I got bored with the shtick, I unsubscribed.

            Know why I love being on Paul Myers' list?

            Because he provides the best content around...hands down.

            His damn newsletters take freaking forever to read, but at least I get
            something out of them.

            Can't say that for most.

            And guess what. At the top of almost every email he sends is some kind
            of short pitch BEFORE he gets to the content.

            You know what to expect.

            Be consistent and let people know what to expect from you and it won't
            matter how often you email.

            Having said that, you won't please everybody so don't try.

            Some people will be pissed off if you email them everyday and some
            people will be pissed off because you only email once a week.

            When you try to please everybody...you please nobody.
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnHuizinga
            Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

            I just CHOOSE the approach that sits well with me and
            my own value system.

            You choose to use your own approach that sits well with
            you and that's up to you.
            Subtle implication that people who don't use your approach don't have or aren't consulting their "value system".

            Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

            I always pass my marketing methods through a gut check
            and not just a bottom line consideration.

            Other people have different approaches of course.
            Again.
            Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

            I just choose not to do it as I have additional ways of
            measuring my own success - one of which is money. Others
            include how I feel about the way I conduct my business and
            interact with my prospects and clients.

            Different strokes for different folks.
            And again.

            You have your own way of making money and it sits well with your value system. My value system says I'd rather not (often at least) send out an email without giving my readers a chance to buy from/through me. I'm not ashamed of it. That's what the list is for.
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            "you got to keep fighting, keep believing and never give up in order to succeed"
            Tim Gorman

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            • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
              Originally Posted by JohnHuizinga View Post

              Subtle implication that people who don't use your approach don't have or aren't consulting their "value system".
              ---
              You have your own way of making money and it sits well with your value system. My value system says I'd rather not (often at least) send out an email without giving my readers a chance to buy from/through me. I'm not ashamed of it. That's what the list is for.
              Not at all.

              I trained as a coach back in June 2000 and am all too
              aware that people have their own value systems that
              they live their lives by - any they're very, very unique
              and highly personal and need to be respected.

              I'm not saying mine's is right - just that it's right for me.

              Do whatever is in alignment with your own value system
              and judge by the contentment you feel in doing that.

              Whether that's in how you treat your list, how you run
              your business or anything else.

              Just don't accept a value system from an outside source
              without examinining against your own value system first -
              whichever way you choose.

              Dedicated to your success,

              Shaun
              Signature

              .

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    • Profile picture of the author JohnHuizinga
      Originally Posted by drmani View Post

      Here's a plan. Split your list into two. Send them separate autoresponder
      emails. On one of the series, pitch, pitch and pitch. On the other, use an
      alternative approach. Monitor open rates, clickthroughs and unsubscribes.
      In a short while, you'll have a clearer answer than you'll get from any
      number of other people's experiences.

      All success
      Dr.Mani
      Although Dr. Mani is doubtless is more experienced than me in this regard, I'd like to divert slightly from this. Split test, yes. And look at all the factors he tells you to.

      But remember that even if your unsubscription rate is high for the "pitch, pitch, pitch" list, that doesn't automatically mean it's not the most profitable way to go. The ones that stay subscribed just might be the most motivated buyers.

      When all the numbers are in, how does your money in vs. money out situation stand? That's the question you need to be asking yourself. Don't get emotionally attached to unsubscription rates.

      It's business.
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      "you got to keep fighting, keep believing and never give up in order to succeed"
      Tim Gorman

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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Robbins
    EDIT - Just re-read this whole thread and I'm telling you guys I'm getting a MASTERCLASS here - none of the usual BS or candy coated bland 'don't upset the punters' type of info!

    Excellent stuff - and thanks Dr Mani for dropping in with great input.

    I've gotta say I know who R Puddy is but if I didn't I'd still be reading his posts with a mixture of fear and excitement. This is someone who's DONE it.

    But I have a Q for you Robert - you say you put content on your blog? How do you let your list know the content is there? Do you tell them by email, and if so do you include a pitch in your email?

    And secondly, would you STOP pitching every email if your unsubscribe rate got bigger than your opt-in rate?

    Marcus
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by Marcus Robbins View Post

      EDIT - Just re-read this whole thread and I'm telling you guys I'm getting a MASTERCLASS here - none of the usual BS or candy coated bland 'don't upset the punters' type of info!

      Excellent stuff - and thanks Dr Mani for dropping in with great input.

      I've gotta say I know who R Puddy is but if I didn't I'd still be reading his posts with a mixture of fear and excitement. This is someone who's DONE it.

      But I have a Q for you Robert - you say you put content on your blog? How do you let your list know the content is there? Do you tell them by email, and if so do you include a pitch in your email?

      And secondly, would you STOP pitching every email if your unsubscribe rate got bigger than your opt-in rate?

      Marcus
      I have my blog set up so aweber sends a notification that there is a new blog post

      It gives the headline and the first couple of sentences of the blog post, there is no pitch in the email. Just a request to go read the post and comment on it

      Though every blog post has a link in it, usually to one of my programs, But its like an article I just put a Find out more link

      And yes if unsubs started to be close to subscribe rates i might rethink this

      But no more people unsubscribe now than when I was giving content in emails

      Unsubscribe rates only go up, when they dont get what they expect, as my original post here stated.

      If you change the way you use email then yes your unsubscribe rate will go up for a short time, but once it settles down it will remain constant.

      Even when aweber sends the notice for the blog post, the number of unsubscribes is consistent with the numbers when I send a pitch, so i dont post often on my blog

      When i do though its for a reason, by the way if you look at my blog i defy anyone to tell me its not all good info, even though I am always trying to get them to move down a path I want them too.

      Yet despite the content some people still decide to unsubscribe when we send out that blog notification, and thats ok I can make money from people unsubscribing too.

      Advertising Know How Usubscribe confirmation

      Robert
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanman
    Originally Posted by Marcus Robbins View Post


    And being able to think for myself I thought I'd actually do some research.
    Let me ask you this...Does mcdonalds stop showing ads on tv only because people find it annoying? No they don't.

    Similarly...What happens when a hotel has 1000 rooms but they only allow 100 to be occupied. Aren't they losing money on those 900 rooms?

    Your list is pretty similar to this...Why would you not mail them? Each time you do not mail them...Someone else sure is...And that someone else sure is making money by doing something you aren't doing.

    I mean what's the worst thing which can happen anyway? They would unsubscribe? Right?

    So why would you want non-buyers on your list anyway? What's the use of having people on your list when they never buy from you?

    In order to make the most out of your list...You have to get a bit more bold and stop worrying about all this. Just mail them and see what happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author retirein12
    Just sending out email to 1000's of list is not the way. You begin building a list with target marketing and this will take time. The good thing about this targeted list is it is your.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Robbins
    Final question - directed to everyone but I hope RP finds time to reply..

    Mailing times - so you mail every day, twice a week, twice a month etc

    and how does that affect rates, especially OPEN rates?

    Love the Spamarrest affiliate link on RP's unsub page

    Big thanks to all posters.

    Marcus.
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  • Profile picture of the author SolomonHuey
    I'll just state a quick fact here. I've listened and followed very closely to advice given by a few people like Robert, and thanks to people like that ... I make my entire living online. (Didn't take very long either!)

    As someone had mentioned earlier, you could do A LOT worse than listening to Mr. Puddy.

    Solomon Huey
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    Solomon Huey
    Having Trouble Getting Traffic [YOU]?     - My Blog - EliteSafelist - FastActionAds

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  • Profile picture of the author JonMills
    Its a DOUBLE EDGED SWORD your dealing with when it comes to emailing

    First.. You are going to always have subscribers who want you to respect the fact that they have given you their email ( i.e No one and I mean no one likes to be bombarded by emails day in and day out... if your plan is that.. get ready for unsubscribers ) again though it depends what they subscribed too.. if it was a daily inspiration message well then they know they will get it daily, but if it was one time download and then your plan it too bombard them.. well you will be sucking eggs when they unsubscribe

    Second... You will have those who only sign up to get free stuff, they have no intention of buying and well as Frank Kern once put it.... in a newsletter he put out in the mail " were in business here " so for those expect them to unsubscribe, bitch and complain when they get even 1 email a month that tells them about a product you have bought and like " there are no pleasing those piss ants

    Third.. you will get those who genuinely know they are going to be mailed too and dont mind as long as you dont abuse it by just sending non relevant, useless, every bloody clickbank product under the sun to them. It doesnt take long to see through the " Hey my friend jack the guru has come out with a product " .... like yeah.. hes really friends with your punk ass people throw around the word " friend " like drinking a can of coke. Chances are they saw them across the room at a conference or bought one of their products and now they think they have some form of friendship with them.. like gee get a life!... anyway those you can figure out fairly quickly..

    Personally it really depends

    1. On the list ( niche )
    2. Why they originally signed up ( daily, monthly, once off mailing? )
    3. Reasons for mailing ( Is it a legit reason or are you taking the piss and just abusing )

    Mailing can be effective but it can also be NOBISH!

    Personally im on a number of mailing lists.. As I like to keep my ears and eyes open across the board as to what new things are occuring.

    Sure i get a lot of email per day, I dont open every one of them. Only around 2 or 3 do i open religiously and scan the email and that is because they have earned my trust and usually i know if i do get their email its going to be good stuff.

    Now some marketers just take the piss and bombard you like rain and in those cases I NUKE their ass pretty quick and unsubscribe.

    As for my subscribers in the marketing niche they know they rarely get mailed by me, and that comes with a 2 edged sword ( some like that as they know when I do mail its going to be useful, and others will unsubscribe as they feel i should mail more frequently ) you cant please everyone.. I use the golden rule of thumb

    Treat others as I would want to be treated

    I mail out when its genuinely useful, maybe something I have learned, something I have to give away for free, some new product I have created, or some new service I have been using that is great.
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  • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
    If you're trying to sell in certain niches you need to inflict pain.

    Continuous emails with the right subject lines is the right way to go about it.

    I bet the guy didn't mention the psycology of it in his DVD otherwise you wouldn't be here to ask.

    Did he?
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    SEO, copywriting and backlinks service UK
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  • Profile picture of the author Adam G. Katz
    We have a list of 60k+ we hit, once a week.

    In every issue, we include quality, original content and then also a brief pitch to learn more (goes to the salesletter).

    We've tested this pretty extensively and have found that more than once a week dilutes overall response, sales and increases unsubs.

    YMMV.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by Adam G. Katz View Post

      We have a list of 60k+ we hit, once a week.

      In every issue, we include quality, original content and then also a brief pitch to learn more (goes to the salesletter).

      We've tested this pretty extensively and have found that more than once a week dilutes overall response, sales and increases unsubs.

      YMMV.
      Thats only becuase you have taught them to only expect an email once a week...

      And before we start a fight over it, thats fine, thats what they are used to so thats what works for you and them.

      All of the questions about frequency etc comes down to one thing...

      EXPECTATION

      And you as the list owner can set that expectation, by doing what ever you do consistently (hope that made sense)
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    I mail strategically...

    I am never just an affiliate for anyone, If they want the leverage gained from my list they have to give me something in return.

    You will (almost never) see any promotion from me, email or offers in my memberships sites that dont come from strategic partners that I have negotiated a return on the investment of using my ad spaces.

    As to mailing frequency, the rule is I mail when ever I need to, without thought for when I last mailed. It doesnt matter

    Those who weren't interested in yesterdays promotion may well be interested in todays promotion.

    The what frequency question is a left over response from "its a newsletter" its not a news letter its a marketing tool to be turned on when its needed.

    Now do i mail every day just because i can? No

    Some months I may only mail 3 times in the whole month, other times when there is a lot going on I may mail 3 times in a week.

    One other thought I have a large list, its split into 2 halves, so sometimes i will mail one half one promotion and mail the other half a different promotion on the same day. Then swap the promotion around a couple of days later.

    Or if one of the promotions converts better than the other then I will just mail the whole list on the best converting one.

    I'm sorry if there was no regimented mail x number of times per week in this answer, but its really not important unless your stuck in the "its a newsletter" category.

    You wouldnt for instance say "I do PPC" every wednesday and Friday would you
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  • Profile picture of the author Tony M.
    YES, if you mail every other day, your open rate will decrease compared to mailing weekly...
    But guess what...
    Let's say you've got 10,000 people on your list.

    If you used to have, say, a 40% open rate on your weekly email.
    That's 400 people who view your marketing per week.

    Let's say you have a 20% open rate on your emails sent on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Sunday.
    Is that half the response ?

    NO. That's 200 + 200 + 200 + 200 people viewing your marketing.
    That's TWICE the response.

    Everything else being equal, you just doubled your business.

    I got this from John Resse two years ago : make more offers, you'll make more money. It's that simple.

    Tony
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  • Profile picture of the author Escotk
    I disagree with mailing your list and pitching them everyday. Email marketing is about building a RELATIONSHIP with your list.

    I don't know about you, but if I had the same salesman coming to my door everyday, trying to make me buy stuff, I'd have a restraining order on him.

    Just my 2 cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      I think some people would benefit a lot more from what Robert has shared if they put aside their mental correlation of marketing messages to pushy salesmen.
      Signature
      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by Escotk View Post

      I disagree with mailing your list and pitching them everyday. Email marketing is about building a RELATIONSHIP with your list.

      I don't know about you, but if I had the same salesman coming to my door everyday, trying to make me buy stuff, I'd have a restraining order on him.

      Just my 2 cents.
      The mail man puts mail through your door every day (or at least several times a week) you going to put a restraining order on the post office?

      And unlike the mailman in this instance you can stop messages with a simple click of a button
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  • Profile picture of the author tyroneshum
    All great advices! What I have to stress again and again is to provide your list with what they need - the value itself should be regularly provided as learning is an unlimited process. You'll surely want to keep your lists for a lifetime and I can say 90% of created good relationships will even help you establish greater ventures in the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    I dont have any problem with the idea of what suits you best is good for you Shaun

    it was this bit I objected to, as though it was somehow evil. or wrong in any way
    not just relentless pitching in pursuit of the 'almighty' dollar

    Its used as a jibe to try and get people to believe what they are doing is somehow wrong or the pursuit of money is a bad thing.

    If you had just left that one incongrous statement out of your post I might even have left a thankyou for the post.

    Robert

    PS: "Rich people admire other successful people...Poor people resent them. If you view the pursuit of wealth as bad....You can never be rich
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    • Profile picture of the author Aussie_Al
      Someone like Matt Furey sends an email most days - however he writes in such an engaging style you want to read his tips - I would suggest sign up to his news letter and get a taste on how he does it
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    A lot depends on what you PROMISED the subscribers
    on signing up. On that page you should tell them how
    often they can expect to hear from you and what type
    of content you'll be sending them.

    If you live up to this promise then you won't have much
    problem.

    -Ray Edwards
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    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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    • Profile picture of the author prettyboy
      Raydal is 100% correct. Those who sign up to your list expect what you told them in the beginning so if they expect to hear from you often then it's ok, but normally mailing the heck out of them usually becomes annoying.
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