What would you do if a "guru" didn't pay your invoice?

49 replies
Would you rat them out? Or leave it to the laywers?

I'm about 2 shakes away from calling this guy out.

Invoice well over due, ignoring all emails and comminication from me.
#guru #invoice #pay
  • Profile picture of the author Money on the Side
    Depends on how much they owed me...I've been burned by a "goo-roo" myself who refused to pay me for some copy work. The problem with mine was that I was shorted just a few hundred bucks so it wasn't worth it to pursue.

    Maybe it's the same guy...
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    • Profile picture of the author butters
      Before you start calling someone out, you should make sure atleast he/she hasn't been detained or away from the computer for some reason. Just be 100% sure before you do stuff like this and if you are sure, call him/her on it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Heidi White
    Ratting the guru out will only leave you at risk. If you do it in here, you could potentially start trouble that could get you sued or worse (banned from WF)

    If you resort to 'ratting out' your non-paying guru, you won't get you your money back - for sure!

    Collect the debt or not through the proper channels. Guru or not, bad debts are just part of business.

    If your hired guns can't collect, oh well, it's a write off!
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by butters View Post

      Before you start calling someone out, you should make sure atleast he/she hasn't been detained or away from the computer for some reason. Just be 100% sure before you do stuff like this and if you are sure, call him/her on it.
      Daily updates on his Facebook account would suggest there's nothing wrong with his computer.

      Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post


      If you resort to 'ratting out' your non-paying guru, you won't get you your money back - for sure!
      neither will anyone else who falls victim.


      Collect the debt or not through the proper channels. Guru or not, bad debts are just part of business.

      If your hired guns can't collect, oh well, it's a write off!
      Yep, fair point. But if you KNEW a retailer in your local town was stealing credit cards, because you had a friend who worked there, would you feel the urge to warn others who might shop there in the future?
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

        Daily updates on his Facebook account would suggest there's nothing wrong with his computer.
        That can be automated. I've got automated daily updates for some Facebook accounts.
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        Project HERE.

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    • Profile picture of the author acrasial
      Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post

      (banned from WF)
      For some reason, literally every other day for this past week, there have been posts wherein warriors are complaining about being ripped off or scammed or not paid by someone else. Usually that someone else is a member of this forum as well, and unlike in this thread, other warriors were not hesitant to list who it was they were having a dispute with.


      Of course those threads disappear, but honestly, I have not seen any of those people banned who have talked about their disputes publicly on here. But there has been an increased uprising of unhappy, unpaid warriors lately.


      Maybe it's that time of the month, or the moon is not in the right place. No idea.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by acrasial View Post

        For some reason, literally every other day for this past week, there have been posts wherein warriors are complaining about being ripped off or scammed or not paid by someone else. Usually that someone else is a member of this forum as well, and unlike in this thread, other warriors were not hesitant to list who it was they were having a dispute with.


        Of course those threads disappear, but honestly, I have not seen any of those people banned who have talked about their disputes publicly on here. But there has been an increased uprising of unhappy, unpaid warriors lately.


        Maybe it's that time of the month, or the moon is not in the right place. No idea.
        They disappear because it's against WF TOS to air your grievances against others here, particularly if it's another warrior. It's simply not allowed and it will get deleted.

        I'm all for calling out ripoff artists. That's why I have the Paypal scammer link in my sig, but I do it on my blog instead of the WF where it is not allowed.
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    • Profile picture of the author scrofford
      Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post

      Ratting the guru out will only leave you at risk. If you do it in here, you could potentially start trouble that could get you sued or worse (banned from WF)
      I don't believe any of that! I think if someone doesn't pay, goo roo or not they should be called on the carpet. Don't live in fear! How in the heck could the OP get banned from the WF? The only thing you can't do is mention their name here. Get real!
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      • Profile picture of the author craigc1980
        Originally Posted by scrofford View Post

        I don't believe any of that! I think if someone doesn't pay, goo roo or not they should be called on the carpet. Don't live in fear! How in the heck could the OP get banned from the WF? The only thing you can't do is mention their name here. Get real!
        I agree with you somewhat but i do recall a thread i started about me being ripped off by a certain person and then the thread disappeared.

        I never mentioned his name

        Too bad we cant mention the service or product.

        I think most of the time when a thread is brought up like this, it usually is the rip off artist who reports the thread.

        Ironic, isn't it

        Craig
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  • Profile picture of the author Power and Wealth
    You went this far to make this post, might as well just say who it is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
    I know that this isn't the place to rat out crooks, but I wouldn't hesitate to do so generally online if my case was tight (which it is).

    I can understand why it's not cool to rat people in forums, because what happens is that sooner or later, people start calling names unduly, and that becomes slanderous and damaging.

    But there comes a point when you just want to make an example of people. The internet is NOT the best place for keeping secrets. If you're guilty of something, then thanks to the internet, being smeared can happen quicker than bacteria growth in Jesus' sandals.
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    I would suggest an excruciating attention to factual accuracy, extra care to withhold opinion in any "calling out".

    Leave the door open for a legitimate explanation, even if you know one is unlikely. Leave the readers to draw their own conclusions.

    Perhaps simply direct a public question to the one who owes you asking "Do you intend to pay me? If yes, when? If not, why not?"
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  • Profile picture of the author Heidi White
    OK - Maybe my advice was a bit severe - and I was trying to be funny, when I said that getting banned from WF would be worse then getting sued.

    I'm not implying that the OP is a bad person for wanting to 'warn' the rest of us.

    But there is this from the forum rules, which I'm obviously taking literally:

    The main overriding rule for this forum is this:

    If you have a problem with another Warrior, a Guru, or God, take it up with them directly. Not here. No exceptions.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
      Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post


      But there is this from the forum rules, which I'm obviously taking literally:

      The main overriding rule for this forum is this:

      If you have a problem with another Warrior, a Guru, or God, take it up with them directly. Not here. No exceptions.
      Totally agree, which is why I'm not going to mention names on this forum. I'll see if there's any bite, and if not, I know where to go and what to do if the lawyer can't help.

      You see, that's the beauty of the internet...people can't afford to risk their following, their profile, their open areas of communication...for the sake of ripping people off.
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post

      OK - Maybe my advice was a bit severe - and I was trying to be funny, when I said that getting banned from WF would be worse then getting sued.

      I'm not implying that the OP is a bad person for wanting to 'warn' the rest of us.

      But there is this from the forum rules, which I'm obviously taking literally:

      The main overriding rule for this forum is this:

      If you have a problem with another Warrior, a Guru, or God, take it up with them directly. Not here. No exceptions.
      Translation: Become a member of the WF, and rip people off to your heart's desire.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Spencer
    Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

    Would you rat them out? Or leave it to the laywers?

    I'm about 2 shakes away from calling this guy out.

    Invoice well over due, ignoring all emails and comminication from me.
    Clean up this industry by calling him out...

    Not on the WF but I'd get on Salty Dog or something.

    "Gurus" are pretty crazy for not doing it...it's like Tiger Woods doing what he did...dumbass

    Anyhow, I say call him out but in the right way.

    Cheers,

    Brad
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I'm not a lawyer, but...

    You handle the case like you would any other deadbeat. If you single him out for special treatment because he has a name, you put yourself at risk of a lawsuit, in my opinion....and that is strictly opinion.
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    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author LMC
    goto ripoffreport and do it there.
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  • Profile picture of the author JosephCosgrave
    just make sure to keep a full account of everything that's going on.

    Send him a (registered) letter, email, call, facebook message etc. (reffering to the other modes you tried to contact him on). Do it once or twice a week for say 10 weeks so that you have a full list of proof of you trying to contact him. Then afterwards if it's for a considerable amount, just send a solicitors letter. If you fully comply with the law and the contract, you aren't wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author rjaf
    Why not just comment on his posts/WSOs that you could never endorse the guy's views/WSOs, as he's a non-payer? It's fair comment and helpful to any other Warrior who may fall victim to the guy's scamming (because make no mistake: he's a scammer).

    All this "Hey, man, never diss another Warrior on WF, cuz it's, like, so uncool" pap is 100% undiluted BS. A scumbag is a scumbag, and we should be looking out for each other, not protecting some low life scammer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Assume that it's tax time?

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Nick:

    Threaten them with People's Court. Nothing like being embarassed on national TV to ensure you get paid.
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post


      Threaten them with People's Court. Nothing like being embarassed on national TV to ensure you get paid.
      All the cases that you see on such shows are those where BOTH parties have agreed to settle the case in that venue. That's actually one thing that makes the shows so fascinating - they are always cases where both parties are convinced they are right.

      So if someone is just being a slimeball and doesn't have a strong reason for not paying, they will not agree to appear on such a show.

      Therefore it's not possible to "threaten" someone with People's Court.

      (Though maybe you meant it as a joke?)

      Marcia Yudkin
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      • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
        Have you tried contacting them via Facebook? Since they are clearly using it.

        RoD
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      • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
        Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

        All the cases that you see on such shows are those where BOTH parties have agreed to settle the case in that venue. That's actually one thing that makes the shows so fascinating - they are always cases where both parties are convinced they are right.

        So if someone is just being a slimeball and doesn't have a strong reason for not paying, they will not agree to appear on such a show.

        Therefore it's not possible to "threaten" someone with People's Court.

        (Though maybe you meant it as a joke?)

        Marcia Yudkin
        Do you know how those shows work?

        The loser doesn't pay.....the show does.
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        • Profile picture of the author cj1966
          What would you do if you were a proper business? Keep on emailing and then send the lawyers in? You'd get laughed at!

          If you have a phone number call them or their company, if you have a fax number, re-fax the invoice, if you have a postal address send them an invoice. Then send (not email) overdue letters, then inform them you'll be passing the debt on to a debt collection agency, then do it.

          Debt collection agency = you get some cash out of it (maybe)
          Lawyers = you spend more than you get back!
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    Does "GURU" mean somebody of big name status in the market? If so, remember they probably have staff dealing with things.

    Do they have a phone number? Call and talk to them on the phone. If you don't know the phone number, try doing a whois lookup on his domain and see if there is a phone number listed.

    If you know where he lives, check the white pages....
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  • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
    The Blake board at "Name And Shame" Forum is a good place to go.

    That 'name and shame' part has been around for years so I guess he has the legalities covered. One of the threads is started by a frequent (really good ) poster here, about a wso.

    Maybe wait until a couple of responses come into the thread, then send the person a link to it, invite him/er to post.

    Personally I do believe that word should get out when something bad is happening, especially when it looks like something good. I'm happy to be a wimp when there is no point in doing something, but always appreciate accurate communication myself, so try to sort out things that are not accurate.

    In other words, don't worry too much about that 'don't do it you'll be sued' stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      There's a difference between crooks and deadbeats. As Dennis said, just follow normal collection procedures and take it as far as you think is prudent.

      Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

      All the cases that you see on such shows are those where BOTH parties have agreed to settle the case in that venue. That's actually one thing that makes the shows so fascinating - they are always cases where both parties are convinced they are right.

      So if someone is just being a slimeball and doesn't have a strong reason for not paying, they will not agree to appear on such a show.

      Therefore it's not possible to "threaten" someone with People's Court.

      (Though maybe you meant it as a joke?)

      Marcia Yudkin
      Marcia, my wife is addicted to these court shows. There are a couple of strong reasons for a party to agree to appear, even though they know they are likely to lose.

      In return for standing meekly by while the TV judge dresses you down for a few minutes, you receive:

      > A paid trip to the location where the show is filmed.

      > Any award is paid out of a pool, with the remainder split between the two parties. Even if you lose, you get something. Last time I looked, People's Court started with a $10,000 pool. So even if the judge gave a maximum award ($5K in most states), the loser walks away with $2500.

      > If it's a business, clever people usually manage to work in a URL or the name of the company and the fact they have a website. I know my wife has visited websites just out of curiosity, and I'm sure she's not the only one.

      We now return you to your normally scheduled thread...
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  • Profile picture of the author DogScout
    For $25 you can swear out a warrant in dept that includes them being subpoenaed, Where ever they happen to be when the sheriff finds them. That is worth the $25 right there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Intrepreneur
      Send round the heavies. He'll be shaking like a leaf
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      • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
        1. Send out a mob with pitchforks.

        2. Buy a billboard that says "[guru's name] sucks!"

        3. If he's married, get a plethora of women to call, text and email him.

        4. Hire Warrior member John ("Zeus66") to do some of his hoodoo voodoo.

        5. Send out Dennis Gaskill's cute little dog to rip the guy's socks to shreds.

        6. Steal Big Mike's beer and then tell Mike the guru did it.

        7. Or maybe just go through the proper and legal channels, starting with a certified letter and going from there if need be.


        Cheers,
        Becky
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

          1. Send out a mob with pitchforks.

          2. Buy a billboard that says "[guru's name] sucks!"

          3. If he's married, get a plethora of women to call, text and email him.

          4. Hire Warrior member John ("Zeus66") to do some of his hoodoo voodoo.

          5. Send out Dennis Gaskill's cute little dog to rip the guy's socks to shreds.

          6. Steal Big Mike's beer and then tell Mike the guru did it.

          7. Or maybe just go through the proper and legal channels, starting with a certified letter and going from there if need be.


          Cheers,
          Becky
          8. If the work was published, instead of naming names, post a link to the work so we can all see what your contribution was.

          If anyone happens to figure out the name of the Goober, well that's serendipitous, now isn't it...

          ~Bill
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

          1. Send out a mob with pitchforks.

          2. Buy a billboard that says "[guru's name] sucks!"

          3. If he's married, get a plethora of women to call, text and email him.

          4. Hire Warrior member John ("Zeus66") to do some of his hoodoo voodoo.

          5. Send out Dennis Gaskill's cute little dog to rip the guy's socks to shreds.

          6. Steal Big Mike's beer and then tell Mike the guru did it.

          7. Or maybe just go through the proper and legal channels, starting with a certified letter and going from there if need be.


          Cheers,
          Becky
          I'll have you know my little girl has more class than to chew on some guy's dirty old socks...unless there's some mashed potatoes on them.

          I'd go with swiping BIG Mike's beer. Besides scaring the devil out of the guru, you get to enjoy a beer while it happens.
          Signature

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        • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
          Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

          1. Send out a mob with pitchforks.

          2. Buy a billboard that says "[guru's name] sucks!"

          3. If he's married, get a plethora of women to call, text and email him.

          4. Hire Warrior member John ("Zeus66") to do some of his hoodoo voodoo.

          5. Send out Dennis Gaskill's cute little dog to rip the guy's socks to shreds.

          6. Steal Big Mike's beer and then tell Mike the guru did it.

          7. Or maybe just go through the proper and legal channels, starting with a certified letter and going from there if need be.


          Cheers,
          Becky
          LMAO.

          I think #3 would hit him where it hurts the most!

          Allen
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          Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by Richard Odell View Post

          That poor dog, he's already got it re-stocking shelves!
          Yes, and if anyone thinks restocking digital shelves is easy, just try it sometime.
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          Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I once had a beef with a printer on a big job. They quoted me a price for shipping in writing. When they finished the job they added $400 to the original quote saying some junior exec made an error with the original quote.

    I refused to pay the extra amount and refused to pay for the job as well. Then I found out this company had done this to other people. It was a standoff until I put up a Website with their name in the URL.

    It read something like XXXPrintCo-Sucks.com It was a single page that factually described what they'd done. Once the site was up I'd send them a single email every day with a link to my new page.

    I'd also send a link showing how the site was climbing in Google ranking. They finally folded (it took 11 days of this) and shipped the job for the original quote saying that there must have been a 'miscommunication' of some sort. :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author Heidi White
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      I once had a beef with a printer on a big job. They quoted me a price for shipping in writing. When they finished the job they added $400 to the original quote saying some junior exec made an error with the original quote.

      I refused to pay the extra amount and refused to pay for the job as well. Then I found out this company had done this to other people. It was a standoff until I put up a Website with their name in the URL.

      It read something like XXXPrintCo-Sucks.com It was a single page that factually described what they'd done. Once the site was up I'd send them a single email every day with a link to my new page.

      I'd also send a link showing how the site was climbing in Google ranking. They finally folded (it took 11 days of this) and shipped the job for the original quote saying that there must have been a 'miscommunication' of some sort. :rolleyes:
      That's classic!
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      It read something like XXXPrintCo-Sucks.com It was a single page that factually described what they'd done. Once the site was up I'd send them a single email every day with a link to my new page.
      I've done this twice now ... once for a hidden forced continuity scam that I had no idea I was signing up for and more recently, for HughesNet (hughesnetripoff.com). I was hoping HughesNet would find it on their own and pitch a fit. The forced continuity people called me and wanted to buy my domain. lol.
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      • Profile picture of the author Nick Brighton
        Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

        Have you tried contacting them via Facebook? Since they are clearly using it.

        RoD
        Almost my first stop, right after email.

        Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

        That can be automated. I've got automated daily updates for some Facebook accounts.
        Still, it proves that he's alive, and actively running his business...no matter where it came from, syndicated through feeds or not. You can't automate being alive, you can just try and make it easier. (like, not paying for stuff, that makes life REAL easy...)

        /cheek.

        I think the sensible suggestions to start sending letters and phone calls is the best advice really. (Sighs...why can't I spend my time being more productive?)
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        • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
          Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

          Almost my first stop, right after email.



          Still, it proves that he's alive, and actively running his business...no matter where it came from, syndicated through feeds or not. You can't automate being alive, you can just try and make it easier. (like, not paying for stuff, that makes life REAL easy...)

          /cheek.

          I think the sensible suggestions to start sending letters and phone calls is the best advice really. (Sighs...why can't I spend my time being more productive?)
          Obviously, nowadays, if someone gets ripped off, there are some online avenues to even the score, eg blog about it, report it at a ripoff report site, broadcast it on Youtube, repeatedly comment on it at social marketing sites, give it a harsh review on a review site, etc etc etc.

          (What would the Count of Monte Cristo do?)
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  • Profile picture of the author Flint
    I would expose him if you are past the point of trying to be professional. Visit every marketing forum and share your experiences with every member of each forum. Good luck on finding a resolution.
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Ya, you can't name and shame on this forum, for the most part. Not really the forum for that. But definitely, if you can't resolve this, do your best to shame the guru with a website, other places more appropriate, ripoffreport and other sites like it. Do not just let it rest, as that's nonsense for him to do that.
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    • Profile picture of the author agc
      Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

      Ya, you can't name and shame on this forum, for the most part. Not really the forum for that. But definitely, if you can't resolve this, do your best to shame the guru with a website, other places more appropriate, ripoffreport and other sites like it. Do not just let it rest, as that's nonsense for him to do that.
      Hey, if they weren't selling here then I could say that even if I don't agree with the rule, at least it's honorable.

      But with the forum taking money to promote / post offers, suppressing negative feedback while allowing positive is a really unsupportable scummy position to take.

      Is this guru selling here? Or just a participant? Did you start your relationship here? Or are you both just here as a coincidence?
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    GOO ROO's are no different than any other small business owner.

    An account receivable aging is an account receivable aging.
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  • Profile picture of the author summerm
    You get a book deal with a major publisher, then talk about how you were gypped on Larry King.

    Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

    Would you rat them out? Or leave it to the laywers?

    I'm about 2 shakes away from calling this guy out.

    Invoice well over due, ignoring all emails and comminication from me.
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  • Profile picture of the author ausslite
    I would suggest you do the ripoff report thing.
    they rank very well in Google and you could always do your own mojo to help that out. do a rip off report and make sure it gets on Google page 1 for guru name
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  • Profile picture of the author Karomesis
    I was reading on another site and I quote

    **NOTE** Don't email me telling me how big of a guru you are and expecting your product quicker . . . this is a first come first serve, and we treat everyone the same! - besides your really not a guru (you just think you are).


    GURU= FAIL
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    any ? please hit me up anytime karomesis12@gmail.com

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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Originally Posted by Nick Brighton View Post

    Would you rat them out? Or leave it to the laywers?

    I'm about 2 shakes away from calling this guy out.

    Invoice well over due, ignoring all emails and comminication from me.

    To play devil's advocate for a second, should your invoice be paid?

    Did you do what was agreed beforehand etc?

    I'm presuming you did but I thought I'd mention it.

    Do you have some kind of relationship with the guy?

    Does he acknowledge you did the work? Was he happy with it?

    Sam
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